Mother Talkers

Working fathers' roles in today's families (question/discussion/rant).

Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:56:03 PM PDT

Okay, a 2nd diary posting for me!  Woo hoo!

In the comments of my previous diary entry about me possibly reentering the workforce, someone said that I should be sure to :negotiate major participation from DH in the family/child/home care areas. Major participation--like 50-50 if possible."

In theory, I think that's great, but in practice, it can be hard to achieve.  I'm just wondering where everyone else is at with it?  (More on me after the jump.)

some of this is cut and paste from the other comments section...

As I replied, my dh is a great dad, more involved than probably any other dad I've seen.  He also does way more around the house than any other dad I know of, even with me at home (I'd say he does about half the cooking and cleaning).  

But... it's pretty clear to both of us that at least right now, his career has top billing.  He makes roughly twice what I'd be making, he puts in way more than 40 hrs/wk while my potential position is pretty set, and he's in a really critical stage (working for a start-up with a couple of big launches in the next couple of years).  I think that yeah, most of the time, I would be the one taking them to the dr., staying with them when they're sick, etc.  

Yes, he's perfectly willing and able to do this stuff, but I feel like we need to be realistic, at least for now.  I don't feel like a lot of American workplaces are family friendly, and I do think that dads get dinged when they try to work a reasonable number of hours or if they try to be involved/help out with this stuff.  And obviously, moms get dinged, too.

I will add that I don't necessarily see this as a forever solution for us (or for everyone else).  If his start-up tanks, he may freelance again, in which case, he'd be the go-to person for the kids.

Tags: working, dads, childcare (all tags)

Permalink | 16 comments

  • no one-size-fits-all (0 / 0)

    I think every family has to find the balance that makes sense for their unique situation. Ideally everything would be fifty-fifty, but it sounds like your DH's salary and time commitment to work right now are greater than yours will be, so it's reasonable that you would pick up more of the home/kids-related stuff. As long as you're cool with it, that's all that matters IMO.

  • it's a total YMMV situation (0 / 0)

    In our family, I'm a WAH freelance journalist, who does roughly 25-30 hours a week of work. DH is a WOTH who does roughly 50-55 hours a week (with more during financial reporting seasons). Naturally, I'm the go-to person for housework, errands, etc. I understand this, but I resent it at times, too. It's a constant point, particularly on the housework front. DH sees all housework as part of my roster. I hate housework and am constantly trying to shove work off onto him. It's something that periodically flares up.

    But when I need to do all-day conferences and such, DH is happy to arrange for days off and take over my job. So, while it isn't perfect, I know that he's doing his part as a parent and supporting me as well.

    Not really a point here, I suppose. If you wanted advice or my opinion, I would say don't dismiss DH's willingness to do things like taking sick days and such; you may find that you need it! Plus, I think there's a force multiplier effect; if one father in an office stands up and does his role as a parent, it allows other men who might waver or wouldn't do it at all for fear of the perception to also stand up and do their part.

  • asdf (0 / 0)

    One thing I wanted to add (that I forgot to put in the diary) is that part of the reason I'm thinking about this is just the sense of unfairness I've gotten in talking to other moms (SAH and otherwise) about it.

    Eg, during a 2 hr medical test I had last week, I had a lot of time to chat with the tech, who (like me) is in the middle of the big long muddy PhD process, and she has 2 kids (she works 2 days/wk).  She griped about how her dh's employer does the family-friendly talk, but there's constant, explicit pressure on him to work longer and longer and longer hours.  The same thing happened with my dh at his previous job, and apparently, it was a real bone of contention for a lot of his co-workers, both male and female; they didn't want the expectation that a "normal" week was 50-60 hrs.

    I feel somewhat better about my dh's current situation, because at least now he's getting paid a lot more for doing the longer hours, and he's much happier at the current job.

    In the back of my mind, though, I'm afraid that he (and other dads, and other moms) will get dinged if he tries to have some work-family balance.

  • For me, it's less about percentages (0 / 0)

    and more about attitude.  I work fluctuating hours, he just works long hours.  He has sick/personal days, I don't (not really).  He picks up a lot of the domestic workload during my exceptionally busy weeks.  He does the dishes and the kitchen trash on his own.  He'll do anything else IF I ASK.  We could be crunching through the dirt on the carpet, and it wouldn't occur to him to vacuum - but if I ask, he does it.  Ditto the bathrooms, the kitchen floor, etc., etc.  So I don't gripe a lot, but I chafe at the idea that housework is mine to either do or dole out to others.

    • word (0 / 0)

      So I don't gripe a lot, but I chafe at the idea that housework is mine to either do or dole out to others.

      I hear you. Take some initiative, people!

      if you wobba cypress trees then I will wobba you

      by thais on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:22:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • I'm a SAHM (0 / 0)

    and I am 7 months pregnant. I really need my husband to help out more during this stage because physically there's a lot I can't do. When stuff crops up he will pitch in, good. Right?

    Meanwhile, his work has messed up his vacation days, tried TWICE to schedule him to be at week-long conferences in June, and his coworkers (90% of whom are males with children) are "jokingly" complaining about picking up the slack while he plans to stay home with the baby and me.

    Its driving me crazy. So yeah, my problem isn't with my husband's attitude but others regarding my SAHM condition. They assume I can just do all of this myself I guess or that my husband has no other real role in our lives except to bring home the money.

    • This kills (0 / 0)

      DH's employer is still "paying him back" for being out for 8 weeks when Julian was born and the whole surgery mess happened.  Not that they are saying it explicitly, but he's been out in the field for whole week segments for 3 weeks in a row (home at midnight on Friday and leaving 4am on Mondays.

      He was supposed to be trading off every other week wit a coworker, but the guy decided to go on a 2 week cruise instead, and DH was told he, of all people, would understand this guy's need to relax  "And for him, it's only 2 weeks."

      ::sigh::

      • ack!! (0 / 0)

        When Jess was born, DH was an internal auditor with a job that had massive travel committments. He was able to arrange to have 4 weeks off when Jess was born, but his first assignment after paternity leave (which wasn't leave at all but rather all of his accumulated vacation time)? Four-straight-weeks in Nigeria. It was even supposed to be a five week assignment, but it got chopped back to four when he got there. We were very WTF? when DH got that news.

        • Oh, God! (0 / 0)

          That's awful!

          My sympathies

          • thank goodness (0 / 0)

            my parents came over. They arrived 10 days after Anthony left, and staggered their visit so that I had someone around for the rest of the time DH was away.

            However, it must be said that I was on my own with only one baby; I could basically live around Jess's schedule. I couldn't imagine doing it with two like you!

            But yeah, it was pretty sucky. We were so glad when he finished that job! So I empathise a lot with what you two are going through!

      • Honestly? (0 / 0)

        Newborn surgery is equal to a cruise?  WTF?  

        I'm totally gobsmacked.  

        "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

        by lonestar canuck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:12:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Apparently. (0 / 0)

          AND, DH gave his employer 8 months notice on the fact that he was going to take some time off after baby, so it wasn't that they didn't know he was going to be gone.  

          AND, when he'd been home for one week and we found out Jules was having surgery, we called in and let them know THAT day.  WEEKS in advance.

          AND when they needed him for fill-in emergency stuff, he came in (for four days altogether).  While on leave.

          WTF people?

          • that's just awful (0 / 0)

            I mean, there's something seriously wrong with people's thinking at that point. You and DH did all you could to give reasonable notice (and with all the notice you gave on Julian's surgery, I'd say you really did the job right). And somebody says cruise equals newborn surgery? OMFG. That's just wrong.

  • I'm a sahm (0 / 0)

    and I do everything.  I don't do it very well though.    

    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

    by lonestar canuck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:13:17 AM PDT

  • work-life balance (0 / 0)

    I don't see it so much as gender roles, as how the US workplace has changed and what it takes to raise a family these days.

    Most two adult families seem to want or need 60 to 80 hrs per week of paid labor to support their families.  A family can still achieve work-life balance in this range, but when as go over 80 total hours per week family life gets tight.  It would be great if two adults could split their total work hours however they like, but we often can't.  

    First, at higher income levels a 40 hr job actually expects more like 50-60 hrs committment.  More if you want to make the big bucks.  It's rare that you can cut that in half (for half the pay) and keep the job.

    Meanwhile a 20 hr a week job hardly pays anything.  With child care and the tax bracket of a higher paid spouse it's often not worth it.  So even if dad wants more time with the kids and mom wants to get out of the house, financially the best solution is often for dad (usually dad) to work the long hours to bringing the extra $$ and mom to stay home.

    So the only way to achieve work-life balance for many families is for one parent to take 'work' and the other to take 'life'.  Which sucks for both.  But yes, if dad is working 60+ hrs I think it is fair for mom to be responsible for the housework.  Even though that's the suckier end of the deal.

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