Mother Talkers

Election 08 - Women at Risk

Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:10:13 PM PDT

I'm very concerned about the split in the Democratic party between Obama and Hillary supporters. If we don't elect a Democrat this year we are looking at possible World War, the loss of Women's Rights, Civil Rights being rolled back to the stone age, and an end to an effective environmental movement.

While it's disappointing to some that a woman won't be running for President as our nominee in the General Election, we must realize that we can't endanger the future of this country by staying home or voting for McCain.

There are Supreme Court Justices hanging on for dear life so they don't allow Bush/Cheney to stack the court with more extremely conservative Judges. We can't allow the division in the party to hand the election to John McBush. These justices probably won't last another 4 years, this is our only shot at keeping the court balanced.

It's time to come together as a party and support our Presumptive Nominee. It's also important to do your research and understand the issues that we as women and mothers are facing. Talk to your friends, family, and children about what a McCain Presidency would mean. Please don't allow the division in the Democratic Party to hand McCain the election.

We seem to be forgetting what an incredible step forward an Obama Presidency would be for all Americans. The only pro-woman and pro-family choice we can make is to support the nominee of the Democratic party, no matter who it is.  With 2 historical candidates in the race we have lost focus on the fact that either would be preferable to the disaster the last 7 years have been.

We can't afford a war with Iran. Russia has basically threatened us with a major war if we go into Iran. We don't have the troops or the money for a world war.

Roe V. Wade has been under attack for years, the only reason society hasn't been put back 50 years is the current Supreme Court Justices refusing to retire until someone who will protect our rights is in office. I am certainly no fan of abortion, but I know that it is sometimes a necessity. Look at the state of our health care system - should we allow those that can't fix it or provide care for uninsured children make choices for us? Can the government make a more informed decision about your life than you can?

John McCain was once a Repub in name only - pretty much an independent. When he began running for President this time he started moving to the right and if he abandons his beliefs this easily we can't count on him to stand up to extremists.

Barack Obama is committed to early childhood education, making college an option for everyone by offering college money in exchange for community service, forgiving teacher's student loans for working in rural or inner city schools, and getting rid of the disasterous "No Child Left Behind" act that forces teachers to teach a test instead of educating our children and preparing them for the real world.

He is committed to ending tax cuts for the wealthy and helping middle class and poor families. He will just ask that people making over $200,000 per year pay their fair share.

Please talk to the people in your lives that are considering staying home on election day because Hillary has lost the nomination. The worst thing they could do is stay home. We can't afford another 4 years of Bush policies. Our children's future depends on it.

Poll

If Barack Obama is the nominee will you...

74%44 votes
1%1 votes
15%9 votes
1%1 votes
5%3 votes
1%1 votes

| 59 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Election 08, politics, Equal Rights, Supreme Court, Obama, Hillary, McCain, Primaries, Democratic Nomination (all tags)

Permalink | 230 comments

  • I've been an Obama supporter (0 / 0)

    since Edwards left the race.  My family largely decided to support Obama, too.  One of my daughters and my parents voted for Hillary in our primary...however, they have no problem whatsoever voting for Obama in November.  In fact, I have yet to personally meet any Hillary voters who will not do the same.  

    • I hope so! (0 / 0)

      I'm very nervous about this election - 2004 just stunned me. I hope the Hillary supporters get on board. Some of the phone calls I've made for Obama concern me - for the most part I got a positive response - but the bad ones... I just hope we can come together as a party.

      Thanks so much for supporting him - he's the best choice for Veterans, education, and the environment IMHO. Part of our "stimulus" check is going to the campaign! I am also giving some to down ticket Democrats (Congress, Senate, local govt) and to the DNC. I am also considering a 527 (swift boat organization) because I know the GOP 527s will be pretty nasty.

      Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

      by StephSchiff on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:03:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Wow (0 / 0)

        I mean I'm going to put up a sign...which for me is a biiiig leap. I am passionate about issues. I am worried about the election.

        I saw a bumper sticker here that said, "Barack Hussein Obama... are you FREAKIN' kidding me?!" Instead of feeling angry at first I just felt very cold and scared. Yeah, that West Virginia primary didn't help at all!

        On the other hand my husband is a Republican and he thinks Obama will be the next POTUS. And he thinks he'd be a good choice too.

        • It's going to get very ugly. (0 / 0)

          There are people who wouldn't vote for Clinton because she's a woman and would have no problem saying it and there are people who wouldn't vote for Obama because he's black and would have no problem saying it.  Either way we're going to see the nasty side of American politics.  

          You thought that bitch with the purple heart band aid was bad?  Just wait.  

          I childproofed my house but they got back in somehow.

          by lonestar canuck on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:07:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • And before that (0 / 0)

            there are people who wouldn't vote for Kerry because he was a Democrat.

            What amazes me is how many people can't come up with a good reason to vote for/against someone. That's one of my gentle prods that I use in some places now. "Oh, surely," I say, "You have a better reason than that. At least take the time to research their positions and pick one of those."

        • one dedicated republican (0 / 0)

          My Republican brother is probably going to vote Obama, and he never votes Democratic.  He is conservative, very active in his local party, and he worked hard for his golden boy Romney.

          He views McCain as a betrayal of conservative principals, but he's also one of those types who needs anticonvulsants plus napkins to dry his mouth and brow if the conversation turns to Hillary.  Yeah, my brother's an idiot.  But even he recognizes that GWB has done far too much damage to the country, and he respects Obama enough to give him a try.

  • I understand what you're saying (0 / 0)

    I really do but I have to say I feel a bit 'lectured' to -- I've been a Hillary supporter from day one and the race is NOT over.  if she is not the nominee I will support Senator Obama by voting for him.  I may even tape a bumper sticker in my window.  But the presumption that all the hilary voters are going to stay home and let mcain get elected is quite simply insulting to me. you may not have meant it that way but  I felt a little admonished here.

    • Not my intention (0 / 0)

      Sorry if it seemed that way - it was not directed to those who vote on issues. After calling West Virginia for the Obama campaign, I felt the need to speak up. I am hoping that people feel like you and realize the danger of a McCain Presidency.

      The antipathy on both sides has gotten out of hand. I'm glad to hear that you'll support our Nominee regardless of who it is.

      I just wanted to bring up the issues and see how people are feeling. This is such an important election and both sides have worked very hard - I just don't want all of the hard work we've done to be for nothing.

      Thanks for your comment, and again I apologize if the tone was off.

      Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

      by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:38:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • The analysis I've seen.. (0 / 0)

      ..would tend to suggest that those who voted for Hillary in the primary who say they wouldn't vote for Obama are likely to vote for McCain in a general election, regardless of who is the Democratic nominee. And that's a fairly minimal number of people, mostly in the south.

      I've got to confess, I read the title of this diary and had kind of assumed that it was going to be a congressional candidate diary. I'm of the opinion that the way you get a woman President is to start moving more women through the system as a whole - sooner or later, you have to hope the experience will mean that someone rises to the top who wins. Has anyone been paying attention to female congressional candidates? The only one we have here is Heather Wilson for Senate, and she's a Republican, sadly, so I'm rather looking forward to seeing her replaced.

      "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

      by Expat Briton on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:37:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I'm hoping for success for Jeanne Shaheen's (0 / 0)

        senate campaign in NH -- the Democratic party is really putting alot of effort into getting her elected and I have high regard for her from her terms as NH Governor. THAT's where my campaign contributions and time will go --I've made my contributions to Hilary and if she's not the nominee then I need to put my focus on a local level with the Shaheen campaign and Carol Shea Porters re election campaign.

        • Great Idea! (0 / 0)

          I have also been working at the Senate, Congressional, and state levels to get Dems elected. I think you're right - we need to get more women working in politics so it becomes the norm, not the exception to have women running for higher office.

          Luckily, Hillary has proven that people will vote for a woman, so in the future, we should have an easier time since it won't be a first.

          Thanks for the idea for a post - I will start researching it and write a post about women running in the Congressional, Senate, and State Elections - unless you already are?

          I think we're in for a sweeping change in this country - we've already taken seats in special elections, and there will be a wave of change in the 08 elections!

          Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

          by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 07:59:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • Me too! (0 / 0)

          I lurve me some Jeannie!  (No disrespect intended, but I think she's the best "education" governor we've had in NH- and I think she'd do great things in the Senate.)

          I've been an Obama chick since I got Baracked last November- 90 minutes with the man himself and 7 other women, prodding him on his positions around work/ family balance.  He won me over with his position on early childhood education and his mortification that one of his aides couldn't find a place to nurse or pump in the Senate office building where she worked.  I'll support any Democrat, anywhere, who asks for my help- just as long as they realize I have to bring my kids along.

          And all volunteering must be completed by 7:30 pm.

          • wherebouts are you in NH? (0 / 0)

            I work in Concord, live in manch vegas

            • Keene- (0 / 0)

              Home of all things Pumpkin. Absolutely love it- moved DH and I out from Kansas several years ago and have never regretted it.  Live here, work here, smack black flies here...

              • Kelly (my partner) (0 / 0)

                graduated from keene State back in the day. one of our first outings wth Liza was taking her to the pumpkin festival when she was only 4 --
                I was just out in Keene a few weeks ago for the governor's awards in the arts at the colonial -- my theater hosted it two years ago but they like to rotate the site - I like Keene -- it's nice out there.

          • Thanks so much! (0 / 0)

            I really appreciate your work in politics. I am often stuck doing what I can from home because of a chronic pain condition caused by injuries that weren't properly treated in the Army. I love hearing that people are getting out there this election cycle - I'm hoping to feel better this summer so I can do more in person.

            I've lost friends in Iraq and that makes me pretty passionate about getting Dems elected this year.

            Just wanted to say thanks and give you a pat on the back!

            Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

            by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:39:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • Go Jeanne!! (0 / 0)

          I am so out of it, I didn't know she was running. She'll make a great senator.

      • Oh 02 (0 / 0)

        Vic Wulsin is going after Mean Jean Schmidt again. She lost by a tiny margin last time. I really think no matter who is upticket (Obama or Clinton) she'll win this time. She's awesome!

    • but wait (0 / 0)

      I think the "lectured to" stuff is a little one sided over here sometimes. Not to start a flame war, but I have felt that it's been extremely one-sided in the critique of PEOPLE who support Obama instead of Hillary. I can't pinpoint any discussions where the people who support Hillary have been directly attacked as being overly enthusiastic, delusional, supporting the "wrong" person but I personally have been accused (NOT by you,MK) of being too over-the-top with my support of Obama, of being a maniacal supporter and the like. I have felt chastised, admonished and spoken down to because I'm an enthusiastic Obama supporter, and the tone with which I've read comments regarding Obama DOES make me worry that even in this little corner of the world, there will be some Hillary supporters staying home on election day should she not win.

      I posted what I thought might be a "healing" diary a while back where I asked posters here to write why they would support the opposing candidate- mainly because I wanted to feel better about the idea that progressives CAN come together post-primary and rally around a candidate and it failed, miserably- not ONE Hillary supporter wrote anything positive about Obama. So I do not think this diary is out of left field at all. I've read your posts before, MK about the fact that you will support Obama (with your scotch tape and everything! :) ) but I haven't really heard the same from others, maybe I missed it, but yeah. I find it disheartening that immediately it's "are you a plant from the Obama campaign" down-thread and that the tone is taken as lecturing. It's passionate, and factual and a reminder, but I don't think it's a lecture or anything like that.

      • I have a theory why that post didn't work (0 / 0)

        about the 'why would you support the other candidate" because for me personally.... I'm not quite there. I have to deal with my mourning period and come to terms that my dream of seeing a woman elected won't happen this time.  I'm not anti Obama, he's a fine man and a good candidate.  But I also dont' think I am quite 'there' yet with being able to eloquently articulate why I will support him.  It may be easier for Obama supporters to do that for Hilary b/c the reality is they most likely will NOT have to vote for her -- so it's easy to do that when you know your guy will be the nominee. it was a hard exercise for me b/c it meant facing that Hilary's name won't be on the ballot and my attempts to write about Senator Obama felt false and hollow.  I will vote for him, I will do what i can to show my suppport by there's a sadness in my heart about the reality of the clinton campaign's future that i have to deal with first.
        I hope that made some sense.

        • I agree (0 / 0)

          It's way too early for that.  As you stated above, this race isn't over yet.  FWIW, I couldn't think of anything positive to say, so I stayed out of it.  I'm just not a fan.  And no, I'm not racist.  

          tjb just about covered it for me when she said we don't want McCain.  I also plan on concentrating my efforts on my local races too.  There's some real deserving folks who need the help out my way, and I'll do what I can to get them elected.

          If, come fall, Obama's our nom, I'll probably medicate myself and pull the lever for him.  McCain scares me too, folks.

          Yes, I'm wearing my flame retardant underpants so fire away.

      • why (0 / 0)

        As an HRC supporter, I didn't post in your "healing diary" because I try not to talk about politics on here at all.  

        Just wanted to add that.

        • I understand that (0 / 0)

          and I hope to begeebus I didn't come across like "waah, my great post idea didn't work!" because that's not at all what I meant.

          I guess I hope that if the tables were turned, if Obama supporters needed a "moment" to accept a defeat it would be respected too. So I understand it all, but I do feel like there's a tinge of defensiveness all around this whole thing that's disheartening.

      • Thank You! (0 / 0)

        Thank you Liliana! I too have gotten a lot of "Drinking the Kool-Aid" comments. My decision to support Obama was wholly platform and policy based. I did my research and decided that he is the one that best aligns with my beliefs.

        This has been incredible. I've volunteered on a lot of campaigns and I am seriously into politics (I don't care for the way the system currently works, but I don't feel that ignoring it will help) and I want to work from within to change how things are done in our political process. This is the first time I have ever seen a significant number of people younger than me that vote on and understand multiple issues. It's really energized so many people to have great candidates to choose from.

        I admit I am not Hillary's biggest fan - but I respect her service in the Senate and I would certainly choose to vote for her over McCain.

        That being said - I don't feel that being excited that Obama is leading in Pledged Delegates, the Popular Vote, and Super Delegates is gloating. We put up with a lot when we were supporting Obama early on (I started over a year ago when no one thought he had a chance) and yes, we're thrilled, but we certainly don't begrudge Clinton supporters their right to continue to support her until all the votes are in.

        I just hope we all come together in the end!

        Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

        by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:09:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • Seriously? (0 / 0)

        Don't you recall that 1p1p felt unwelcome here as a Hillary supporter and took a hiatus?

        I echo many others in that Democrats will support the Democratic nominee. Otherwise, they are DINOs who hopped on the D bandwagon as an result of the W backlash.

        • Aren't we all DINOs to a degree, though? (0 / 0)

          I mean, we support the Democrats because their policies align with our beliefs. If a candidate for some reason doesn't align closely enough with our political beliefs, we don't support them. That's the way this sort of thing works. I don't support a candidate just because they're a Democrat.

          "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

          by Expat Briton on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:52:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Yes (0 / 0)

            but I mean the people who will either stay home or vote McCain aren't really the same as 'us' - those who support (for the most part) the core values/principles of the Democratic party and will support our team whether it's Hillary or Obama. I have friends who were apolitcal at best, right leaners at worst who  HATE Bush and conflate him with all Republicans. That's all fine and good, but they are not like 'us' and can not be counted on to vote in November.

            • Well said. (0 / 0)

              I'm very doubtful as to whether some of these voters we keep hearing about are even worth counting on in November...whether they're voting for Hillary or Obama in the primaries.  I just hope enough of them are paying attention in the next few months and will realize that McCain would be Bush-on-steroids.

              • I don't think they are worth counting at all (0 / 0)

                People who care deeply about the issues will lick their ego wounds and vote for the Democratic nominee. Clinton and Obama are both great on so many key issues that those who really want change will vote irrespective of the nominee.
                And, those who don't probably shouldn't be voting anyway!

                • And as I said above, I have yet (0 / 0)

                  to meet any who aren't going to do just that!  Up here, for example, I know a lot of people who voted for Hillary.  The largest unions (including the teachers union) endorsed her.  They also put on a helluva campaign.  But come on...does anyone believe that the school teachers and the nurses, already democrats, won't be voting for Obama in November?  Ofcourse they will.  They'll be out campaigning for him, too.

                  • I agree (0 / 0)

                    though my teacher daddy has been disappointing as of late :). My DH's teaching Union backed Obama, but it's an IL teaching union so I think that makes sense.

                    and think the tone of this diary was less colloquial than most posts here ("conversations with friends" I like to call them) but not condescending or rude in any way.

          • For a good part of my adult life (0 / 0)

            I've been voting against republicans as much as voting for democrats.  I'm probably well to the left of most democrats...democrats in office and rank and file democrats.  I accept that for what it is, and work to make sure people on my end of the spectrum get a voice, too.  

        • Yes "Seriously" (0 / 0)

          I went back and read the comments and what I "seriously" feel is that Obama supporters on this blog have had to walk on egg shells, apologize for being happy for wins and basically pay dues for comments made elsewhere. I'm sorry if 1p1p (whom i respect greatly) felt unwelcome, but I read the comments proceeding hers and couldn't pinpoint where, in the conversation that had taken place here, the vitriol that caused the reaction  came from.

          I'm not going to pretend that the blogosphere as a whole has been kind to Hillary and I'm not going to pretend that I don't understand that it's disappointing when your candidate is losing. I still wear my Kerry 2004 shirts and weap a little and I didn't even "love" him. I would most likely be devastated if Obama lost / does lose and I get it, but I think overall on this blog the tone towards Hillary supports has been overwhelmingly respectful and that it isn't always reciprocal.

          I haven't called anyone out on comments directed towards me that have been flat out rude, snippish and uncomfortable, made by regulars and guests alike, because I understand that at this point, my guy is "winning" and that bitterness is something that kind of happens when you feel like you're losing. But I am pretty tired of the repeated concept that on this blog there has been some sort of rampant abuse of Hillary supporters.

          • Pissing match (0 / 0)

            I don't want to get into a pissing match with you over this, but I think that since you support Obama  you may be missing some of the ways that HRC supporters can feel marginalized on this site from time to time. Elisa and I got into once, RachelD got into it, 1p1p definitley felt the heat, and MKatherine was rather ridiculously maligned. Those are just off the top of my head. Perhaps because I don't prefer either candidate I see it differently. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive. Perhaps I am conflating the general blogosphere with this site (but I doubt it). For the most part we are a happy, collegial group. This primary season seems to be pushing some of our buttons and I just hope its over soon!

          • That's interesting (0 / 0)

            I always felt like I walked on eggshells around here.  

            When I took off, it was not just that particular conversation that caused it.  It was the build up and one poster in particular who was just downright unpleasant about it all.  I just got tired, that's all.  Tired of defending my candidate.  

            That seems to have changed since then... maybe people are thinking twice before hitting "post" and are being more respectful.  I have always tried to be respectful of Obama supporters as here as well.  

      • You may be right Liliana but I'm still smarting (0 / 0)

        from that hit and run  poster a few weeks ago calling me "stupid and naive" for my support of Hilary.   I make alot of jokes and I'm all for the sarcasm but I have never ever called anyone stupid on this site and it really really upset me. So yeah maybe i'm bringing some baggage from taht exchange here and I apologize.

    • Magnets. (0 / 0)

      Go to your local craft store and buy sheet magnet, then slap the bumper sticker on the magnet and then to your car.  That's what I do.

      But ANNOYINGLY, someone STOLE MY BUSH'S LAST DAY BUMPERMAGNET!  I'm so angry!  GRRRR.

  • Hmmm... (0 / 0)

    are you one of those 400 bloggers that the Obama campaign has hired to sway Clinton voters?

    I haven't decided what I'm doing yet, but you've got your work cut out for you methinks.

    • That's interesting (0 / 0)

      Interesting question. When I first read this diary, I thought it sounded out of left field - like why now, and why at all, if the writer has been around here at all during the last few months.

      And I was puzzled by the lecture-y tone (I agree with MKate, to my ears it sounds like a lecture).

      It just didn't sound like an MT diary, but I couldn't put my finger on it, so your question makes me wonder.

      • I had a similar reaction (0 / 0)

        It certainly did sound like the wrong lecture for this crowd, so my first thought that it was being blanket crossposted to a bunch of different blogs.  But then I just figured the OP was a newbie who hadn't been reading here long enough to figure the place out.  It can take a while to get to know people.

    • Nope (0 / 0)

      I am a disabled vet and volunteer and no one asked me to post this. I've had an account on MotherTalkers for a while but have never posted before.

      I am a mother, a woman, and someone who depends on the military "health care system." All of these things make me want to speak up and get out the vote.

      I want to see a Democrat in office so I will do all I can to get him/her elected. If something were to happen and Hillary became our nominee, I would write the same letter to Obama supporters.

      McCain scares the hell out of me - so I was hoping to understand what is motivating those that say that if Hillary isn't the nominee, they will vote for McCain. Those numbers at the moment are pretty high - and I am hoping we can bridge the gap in the coming months.

      I typed this off the top of my head and realize now that the tone could have been a little different. I am very passionate about this issue and I will work for our nominee (regardless of who wins the nomination) tirelessly.

      Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

      by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:46:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I think the tone issue (0 / 0)

        has to do with statements like

        It's also important to do your research and understand the issues that we as women and mothers are facing.

        and this

        The only pro-woman and pro-family choice we can make is to support the nominee of the Democratic party, no matter who it is.  

        that made me wonder if the diarist has spent much time around MT.  There are so many thoughtful, engaged women here that this kind of hectoring seems unnecessary.

        • Yes! That was it exactly! (0 / 0)

          I felt like saying "gee? really?  I should RESEARCH the ISSUES?" well goooooolllllyyyyyy

        • Didn't say that properly... (0 / 0)

          What I meant is that if you are trying to get people to vote Dem and you end up talking about the candidate you didn't support in the primary read up first. There is a lot of disinformation out there about both candidates and if Hillary got the nomination I would have to do some research to be able to explain why [INSERT GOP ATTACK LIE HERE] isn't true.

          It's sort of automatic for me to add that - I am used to blogging on the Obama site and talking to people that have never phonebanked for a candidate before so my mantra to all of them is do your research.

          Most of us have a 3 or 4 key issues we're knowledgeable  about, but when we're calling out of state those issues change. It was not meant to say anyone wasn't informed - like I've said in other replies - I deeply respect the women on this site - that is why I asked the question here. I normally blog on more Obama friendly sites and I wanted to see what you guys think about all this.

          If you look at this article as a whole I hope you'll see that I just wanted to bring up issues that are important to women and mothers and see which way the wind was blowing.

          I "lurked" on this site for months before I signed up a couple months ago - and I have learned a lot and really enjoyed it. I am pretty taken aback by the attacks though - I thought the article was pretty specific to women's issues and I thought it would start a great discussion - I'm glad we're having the conversation, but I tried writing three different blog posts today (one about down ticket women Dems, one about the current state of feminism, and one about my son) but ended up being too paranoid to write anything. I just write what I feel/what's important to me that would be interesting to others - I don't vet each statement for how it could be interpreted. After being accused of being a some sort of spy for the Obama campaign I think I'll go back to lurking. Oh, and FYI - I can't find any Fox News reports about Obama paying bloggers - Google it yourself - the only place I found it was on two VERY nasty anti-Obama sites that don't back up much with fact. I'm getting pretty tired of being attacked by women for not supporting Hillary (not referring to the responses from this diary) - the vitriol I've seen from that side has convinced me I made the right choice.

          Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

          by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:29:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • let me try again (0 / 0)

            I'm sorry you feel attacked - 'pile on the newbie' is never a game that ends well.  I suspect the reason your diary hasn't been well received is that you've misread your audience - this site is very "Obama friendly", and most of the posters here are passionately political and highly informed.  

            I deeply respect the women on this site - that is why I asked the question here. I normally blog on more Obama friendly sites and I wanted to see what you guys think about all this.

            One reason you see so few candidate diaries here right now is that this site is currently too heavily skewed in favor of Obama to support productive debate - no matter how respectful we try to be, the Hillary supporters feel ganged up on just from the sheer force of numbers.  Most of us are simply giving it a rest until after the nomination.  But I hope this experience doesn't scare you away from the site altogether.

            • ITA (0 / 0)

              I appreciated your diary, Steph; I'm sorry I didn't say that before. Keep on posting and let's talk on other topics, too!!

            • Thanks Lyn and Rachel (0 / 0)

              and to others who have been supportive. I don't mind productive debate - even anti-Obama stuff if that's what you believe and it's based on actual fact. I just wanted to see what people are thinking.

              I guess I shouldn't wine if I put stuff up there - I just really didn't expect this from this crowd. I really expected to see more talk about the issues. I really want to understand things I don't see from my perspective - I want to see what issues are important to other people.

              In my opinion this election is the most important for women since before Roe V Wade. I was hoping this discussion would be about what we have in common and all want.

              I guess I should be grateful there was a response, but I hope more people will read the whole post and try to understand where I was coming from. Especially if you include my initial responses to the replies I got. It's on a smaller scale - but now I know how politicians feel when people take one little comment out of context and turn it into something else.

              Anyway thanks, and I know that some of these comments are not reflective of this community as a whole - this election has gotten people a little crazy, but I posted here because I didn't think that would happen here. Maybe I was a little naive!

              Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

              by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:30:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • I hope (0 / 0)

                you stick around.  I'm mostly staying out of this one, because I've said most of what I have to say about politics in other threads.  But I wasn't insulted by your diary at all.  I also respect the way you're managing to defend yourself without getting defensive, if that makes sense.

                • Thanks Erin (0 / 0)

                  LOL - I've gotten a little defensive as I've replied to more and more - the only one that really annoyed me was the patently false insinuation that Obama is paying bloggers and that I'm one of them.

                  I tried to keep a civil tone as I hoped to get a discussion on the issues - I guess I will have to come up with a different way of posting if that's what I want.

                  Do you think people would be open to that hear or should I just go to a different blog for it? I really wanted to see what people who aren't living and breathing this campaign day to day thought. I really thought most of the people on this blog would be happy with either candidate since they won't continue the Bush error.

                  I am happy to take constructive criticism and I would love some suggestions on how to get us talking about the issues (and whether or not it's even wanted here) without a particular candidate in mind until the primaries are over.

                  Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

                  by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:42:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • I think (0 / 0)

                    emotions are running high.  HRC supporters have been wanting this for a really, really long time, and I totally understand why many of them are feeling pretty damn raw about it.  She was always my third choice, but it's been hard for me to observe the amount of sexism that's been thrown her way.  Maybe a few weeks after the nomination is official people will feel a little better about it, or, if not good, at least resigned.  I'm calm because I never expected my beloved Edwards to win.

                  • we talk about issues all the time (0 / 0)

                    Maybe you are used to speaking in a more abstract way -- "we need health care" or "let's not forget about the Supreme Court."  It seems to me that our daily dialogues here are all about the issues, and how they impact us individually and collectively.  

                    If you're looking to lay out some pros and cons between the Dem candidate and McCain, this probably isn't the best venue.  If there are McCain supporters in these parts, they don't make it a point to mention it here :)  And I don't think reminding us to vote Dem in order to protect the country is a fresh message for this crowd, either.

                    That's not to say that what you have to say is unimportant, at all.  Just that scrolling through a few posts and seeing the intimate, revealing, supportive nature of what we often do here is a bit at odds with what feels more like a "rally the troops" approach.

                    Best of luck with your candidate.  I am sure all your hard work is appreciated!  And I hope you will join us in a variety of discussions (including political ones).

                    • I think that's right (0 / 0)

                      Steph, maybe you'd have more luck with a topic that goes something like "how do we convey this message to others?"

                      I will give a short answer by saying that I pay attention to political discussions on nonpartisan random bbs that have a more balanced blend of views, and I try to stay rational and kind and polite while correcting misinformation and advocating my view.

                      • I would love some links... (0 / 0)

                        I always love to find a new site - I love reading different perspectives and finding out about stuff I didn't know. I also like to see how differently people see the same issue - it's been a real eye-opener talking to people in other places.

                        It's also interesting to hear arguments for/against the same issue when they come from different people. Men approach things so differently, so do people that are just a few years apart in age, people from the East Coast vs the West Coast, etc. Sociology, Psychology, and Theology are "hobbies" of mine too and politics really seems to be a good way to understand how other people see things. I'm just a big humanities geek!

                        Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

                        by StephSchiff on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:16:12 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        • My other BBs are (0 / 0)

                          centered around other interests. Some allow off topic and political discussions, some do not. But you can't just go and start talking politics unless you're already part of those communities in the other sense - for example, if it's a cooking board, you've got to post about cooking for a while first. :-)

                  • I don't think those people are here (0 / 0)

                    I really wanted to see what people who aren't living and breathing this campaign day to day thought.

                    You may have to look elsewhere to find those people.  A large number of us are living and breathing the campaign, even if that's not the primary subject of posts here.  I'm sure there are plenty who are not, but if they try to speak out they risk getting drowned out  - those of us who are trying to step back are still vulnerable to temptation.  Of course some of us are still mourning our beloved Edwards.  

                    But I don't think we need someone to "get us talking".  

                    • Its on my television (0 / 0)

                      almost the entire day, every day.  I keep trying to make myself turn it off....but I can't!  I come here to talk about something other than the horse-race aspect of this election.

              • Been there (0 / 0)

                just recently.  Got tromped all over, lurked and licked my wounds, and got back in the game.  I keep reminding myself the these here internets can be hard to decipher sometimes- but that most folks here are working from positive intent.

                Oh- and I started drinking before reading comments.  Hence the spelling trouble at 8 am.  It's hard to choke down that first Scotch of the day...

          • I'm new too (0 / 0)

            and I hope you stick around!  I didn't think your post was that bad.  I got why people didn't like some parts of it but when I read it, I chose to assume you were being passionate and speaking to people in general and not necessarily those on this site.  I think it says a lot about you that you stuck around to explain yourself instead of leaving in a huff!

    • Interesting (0 / 0)

      I hadn't heard about that.

      I hope they aren't paying the bloggers for their sake.

      I suspect that most of the Hillary supporters who might vote McCain or stay home if BO is the nominee don't hang out on blogs.

      • Not True (0 / 0)

        On the Obama campaign site we have a couple groups of Bloggers for Obama - none of them have been paid or approached by the campaign for anything like that.

        We don't need to be paid - we are pretty passionate about our candidate.

        The only reference I can even find on this supposed paying of bloggers is on 2 anti-Hillary websites. The first complains that Obama bloggers are all over the place and the second claims this is a Fox news story but only references the first article.

        Please Google this yourself. I think the reason there are so many Obama bloggers is simply demographics - Obama has a lot of young people supporting his campaign and much of his campaign is internet based.

        Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

        by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:22:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Sort of O/T (0 / 0)

          but I'm intrigued by your sig line. Were you a Republican voter prior to this election cycle? Just being nosy as I know many people (as I noted above) who were either apolitical or Rs who now purport to be Ds....

          • Before Bush (0 / 0)

            Obama inspired me to really start working hard again to get someone elected. I had volunteered on campaigns in the past, but never to this extent. I am normally not a party line voter, but in the last 8 years, I've started seeing the necessity of voting for Democrats in self-defense. I've lost friends in Iraq, my military benefits have been cut, and I am forced to pay for private school for my 3 year old because there aren't any decent state Pre-K programs.  I was injured before the war started and even then the care of Veterans was dismal. It has gotten much worse now and I feel like I have to fight for those kids coming home from Iraq in body bags, with Traumatic Brain Injury (this wars Agent Orange), PTSD, and lost limbs.  

            When I was in high school (13 years ago)I was a republican - as the Christian Extremists took more and more hold of the party I gave it up. I've actually met John McCain, and while I respect his service, I don't think he is right for the position of Commander In Chief. He recently voted against expanding the GI Bill to help Vets get an education. I have always been socially liberal but economically conservative, but when I became a mother my views changed a lot. Now I have gone just to the left of moderate.

            I'm certainly not one of the people who put Bush in office! I didn't realize posting on this board would upset people so much. I enjoy reading the posts all of you write and I wanted the opinions of the people here because I respect them. I also feel that as mothers we have a responsibility to be involved in the process and vote for the futures of our children.

            I thought I had made it clear in my post that I was talking about voting Democrat because of women's issues - not in support of one candidate. I thought I had made that clear and was respectful of Hillary supporters. It was about voting for a Democrat this year because of the issues I discussed - especially the Supreme Court issue. Many people aren't aware of the those Justices that are hanging on to defend our freedoms.

            While people might not be wild about politics (and if most think it's inappropriate I won't post on the Presidential Race again), I really want to get some of the issues that have gotten less attention out there. I just couldn't live with myself if I didn't do everything I can to avoid another 2000 election!

            Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

            by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:40:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • There aren't a lot of political diaries on MT (0 / 0)

              But I don't think that should be interpreted as a lack of political activity, interest or knowledge amongst the posters here.

              I guess I'd be absolutely shocked if there was anyone posting here that wasn't concerned about the composition of the SCOTUS.  

              • Yeah, it's just a different focus (0 / 0)

                we were having similar conversations on Street Prophets, and I come down on the side of not needing a particular mass of issue/activism diaries to feel that a progressive site is an important community.

            • first law of holes (0 / 0)

              Many people aren't aware of the those Justices that are hanging on to defend our freedoms.

              On this blog?  Really, you think that of us?

              • Again... (0 / 0)

                I was talking about people in general and though I wasn't saying people on this blog didn't know, I'm sure there are some people on this blog that weren't aware of it. Just like there are people deeply involved in both campaigns who aren't.

                Again, I think the women on this blog are well informed and that's why I wanted your opinions. I never said any of you were uninformed and I don't think saying "many people aren't aware..." implies that in any way. These are things I talk about to the people that aren't political junkies.

                Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

                by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 04:38:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • I guess I'm not clear on (0 / 0)

                  what you would like opinions about?  Maybe I'm being dense -- I confess I read the diary at work and wasn't fully attentive.  To me it read more like a to-do list (please do xxx) or an "action diary" ala DKos.

                  • I really wanted to see... (0 / 0)

                    what is the most important issue for other women on this blog - making these calls for Obama and chatting on the web as made me see that people that just live a few hours from me sometimes seem like they're in another world.

                    You're not being dense at all and I really appreciate you taking the time to ask the question instead of making assumptions as to my motives. I guess you could call it my mission statement (for myself) that helped me define what's important to me. I blog on a lot of issues and I wanted to really define what my top priorities/fears are as a mother and as a woman. It also helps me when making calls to voters if I just sit down and type for a while and get my thoughts in order.

                    This was supposed to be the first in a series - I was going to do Feminism, SAHM/WOH, Education, and try to show how both candidates get us there. I also wanted to talk about McCain and what everyone's concerns were about another 4 years of Bush Errors.

                    I thought I would start the conversation with my concerns based on my experience over the last year with Obama - and especially the last 3 months. Then I thought it would naturally segue daily to other Diary Entries. I wanted to hear perspectives from Work Outside the Home Mom's about daycare, maternity leave, health care, equal pay, education...

                    I was also hoping I would see that there were more issues that brought us together and that we could highlight those.

                    It was not meant as a lecture - it's just how I feel from my experiences - I thought that's sort of the point of this blog - talk about your life, get/give advice, talk to smart women, etc. While the active posters on this blog are well informed there are a lot of people out there (again - before anyone attacks - I am not referring to you, I am talking about people that might stumble across this site or people that are occasional readers that may have voted GOP for years and are now trying to decide if it's time to take a leap to the left) that are single issue or limited issue voters and I was hoping to give some food for thought there.

                    Thanks for taking the time to post. This was not a to do list as much as a "God help us if another Repug gets into office - this is what scares me - and it terrifies me that some are going to just stay home!" I needed reassurance that we will eventually come together.

                    Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

                    by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:19:18 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    • Oh gawd, please no... (0 / 0)

                      a series?  Ugh... maybe time for another break.

                      Nothing personal, but the women on MTers are extremely politically savvy.  If we wanted to talk politics 24/7, we go on DKos.  I think some of us come here to get away from that... or maybe it's just me?

                      Maybe once we have a nominee, then diaries like that would be fun.  Now, not so much.  

                    • Stephanie (0 / 0)

                      I wanted to hear perspectives from Work Outside the Home Mom's about daycare, maternity leave, health care, equal pay, education...

                      If you want to know how MTs feel about any issue at all, take a quick browse through the older posts.  This is an opinionated group of broads and, believe me, you can learn everything you want from reading what's already there.

                      I thought I would start the conversation with my concerns based on my experience over the last year with Obama

                      Believe me, we share your concerns.  We are all devastated by what's happened for the last 8 years, and some of us believe McCain would be even worse.  I don't think you'd find many here who believe that McCain is a decent rival for whoever the Dem nominee turns out to be.  If you do, I would wager it's not because they're ignorant of the issues or the impact of their vote.  Chances are quite good that they have very good reasons for believing as they do.  

                      I needed reassurance that we will eventually come together.

                      I'm not sure we can provide that.  We are individuals who share some perspectives and disagree about others.  We are not monolithic.  One thing I do think is true for most of us is that we don't come here to be explicitly educated or informed in a one-sided way.  It seems like we learn through dialogue, through having someone else have a different take on something and then thinking on that, and then, sometimes, changing.  The learning is very organic and not hierarchical.  No one here is The Expert, we all have things to teach and to learn.  And snark about :)

            • I think the thing about MT (0 / 0)

              is that all of us are passionate and informed, most of us are activists on some level or another (from PTA to political campaigns and every volunteer organisation in between), but we all really like here because MT is not an explicitly political blog. Politics informs a lot of our discussions, but it's not 24/7. We also have a really consenual, respectful manner of discussing here with a big dollop of snark (or is that baby spew?) on top. It's quite different from other blogs, but that's why MT is only blog that I post on daily. Hourly even.

        • Not so sure (0 / 0)

          about the payment factor, but I think the blogging bit has been stepped up a bit from the O camp.

          From a pro-Hillary site, The Confluence.  

          And then your diary shows up here, no other comments that I know of posted before this.  Just sayin'.  

          • I had occassionally posted replies... (0 / 0)

            before this, but no posts. Like I said - I thought this would be a good forum to get opinions from moms/women I respect.

            The site you linked to again was based on paranoia or annoyance with the prevalence of Obama supporters on the web - no fact.

            It simply said, "News is spreading that the Obama campaign has hired 400 faithful friends to "throw elbows" at Hillary supporting blogs."

            I can't find any basis for this anywhere - it seems to me that an Anti-Obama blogger started this. I have spoken to the other bloggers I know on the campaign, posted the question to them, searched the internet for references to this. Hey, I would love to get paid for running my mouth/keyboard - but my vote/support is not for sale and with over a year of experience with this campaign - I know this is not their style.

            If they were going to pay someone I would think I would be on the list as I am pretty prolific and well versed on the issues. The explosion of Obama bloggers is simply demographics and the fact that the campaign is so internet based.

            People act like Obama is the "establishment" candidate. You have to remember that before Super Tuesday people pretty much laughed at us and constantly told us that Hillary already had the nomination locked up. We were constantly told he had no chance.

            So, yes we got excited when we started winning. We're just as proud of our candidate as you are of yours. I don't slam people for supporting Hillary - never have - but I have gotten pretty tired of being called anti-feminist or accused of "Drinking the Kool-Aid."  That sort of thing is pretty derisive - it's insulting to be told I'm some mindless automaton.

             

            Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

            by StephSchiff on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:39:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • It's equally insulting for some of us to (0 / 0)

              be told we're stupid or voting for Hilary just "because she's a woman"  I live in NH --  I saw every major candidate MOREE than once and met many of them before I made up my mind.... so how you feel about the kool aid remarks? is how I feel about being told I have to be a good girl and give up my support of Hilary and fall instep like everyone else now there there....

            • Like I said (0 / 0)

              Maybe the payment thing is bogus, but I'm noticing an increase in posts similar to yours on other sites I frequent.  I don't blame you for trying... good strategy, and all that.  

              And no, we are not all paranoid, thanks.  

              I never said anything about O supporters drinking Kool-aid here, or am I missing something?  

              • I said the aritcle was paranoid... (0 / 0)

                I never said you were paranoid. I also don't see how posting to a blog like this is "strategy." As I've repeatedly said most of my blogging has been on Pro-Obama sites (preaching to the choir) and helping others with phone banking. This was something I was doing for fun. I don't quite understand why it upsets you so much or why you seem to be deliberately taking things out of context in an attempt to cast aspersions on my character.

                I never said anything about anyone being middle aged either - "or am I missing something."

                Now on to the reality of why there are so many posts (there always have been, but I digress) - in the past few days we have:

                Picked up tons of Super Delegates. That Edwards endorsement didn't hurt either. Picking up 7 of Edward's Pledged Delegates got us pretty excited. Getting the Steel Workers Union was pretty cool. It's been a great few days.

                Sometimes a cigar is really just a cigar. I've really attempted to be nice - I don't have an ulterior motive unless you count wanting Dems to win in the fall.

                Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

                by StephSchiff on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:31:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  • hmmmm 2 (0 / 0)

    I think it is asinine that a vocal group of Hillary supporters are getting this press and dragging other Hillary supporters down with them.
    I voted for Hillary, I love Hillary, but I'll be damned if a republican will be in the white house in November.  I'll vote and campaign for Obama.  I'll keep on him and his administration like a mother hen.  I'll hold his feet to the fire and make sure he comes up with the change he promises.  I'll work to help make that change happen.  
    And I'm seriously pissed off at these stupid Hillary supporters (and somehow I doubt that they truly know what that means and are just playing at being feminists) just as I'm pissed at the Obama supporters who said they wouldn't vote for Hillary and are now GLOATING about the upcoming nomination.  
    This fractured behavior must stop.  It will be unconscionable that one more person dies in Iraq and Afghanistan because of the problem with peoples' egos.  This campaign is not about YOU, it is about a nation of people coming together to make things better.

    "The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution." Paul Cezanne

    by educonfidential on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:34:27 PM PDT

    • Agreed (0 / 0)

      I'm an Obama supporter, but I'm not cool with gloating.  McCain and his supporters are the ones we need to be fighting against.  When McCain loses?  That's when I'll gloat.

      • Some people like to gloat (0 / 0)

        I think that there are just people out there that like to be obnoxious and gloat.  These people do this about sports events, the Oscars, and their new "totally awesome" cars, stereos, etc.  Politics hasn't been a great venue for these people up until now because there was never really a competition.  Now there is, and I've seen "gloaters" on both sides.  

        --R

    • I have to wonder (0 / 0)

      if those people who voted for Hillary but said they would not vote for Obama are all really Dems anyway? I know at least anecdotally [sp?] I have heard of Republicans in Texas who went and voted for Hillary because Rush said to [a friend's mom who is a Republican said several of her friends were doing this].

      I have heard friends who are Hillary supporters say they will never again vote for a ticket that does not have a woman on it -- mostly these are women a bit older than me [I'm 46] who have lived through the women's movement and are now in their 60s and thinking "when is it going to happen?" But I truly believe that if it came down to Obama/whatever male running mate vs. McC