Mother Talkers

No Dating Until She's 30

by Erin

Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:53:32 AM PDT

Most recently, I heard this from another dad at the YMCA during my daughter's t-ball practice.  "She's not dating until she's 30, or until she meets a guy who's a better shot then me."  

I understand that this is not meant to be literal.  My husband has said it.  It's something I even hear from men with no children.  But accuse me of being anally PC if you will, it's not a line of humor I find particularly funny.  

It wasn't an appropriate setting for a philosophical argument, so I said jokingly "that means having a daughter at home until she dies.  Moping around in your basement, pasty, depressed..."
"That's fine!"  

The level of sexism and selfishness implied in this school of thought just burns me.  Who would wish for their child to be unhappy and unhealthy in any other arena, even in jest?  A child who can't present a good argument because they simply aren't very bright?  A child who eats potato chips and watches TV all day in lieu of climbing dangerous mountains?  These are things no parent yearns for.

I once knew a woman well into her 20's who had never dated.  She had an air of such sadness; it's nothing I would wish upon my daughter.  I have a male cousin in his late 30's who has never left his parents' house.  My hunch is that he has little or no romantic experience.  Again, not a life I want for my son.

I want my children to live full lives.  I want love and adventure for them. For the vast majority of people, sooner or later this includes sex.  I don't care to think about the details, but I do accept it.  Like travel, good nutrition, intellectual curiosity and tenacity, I even hope for it.  

One of my favorite mother lines comes from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.  "I gave you life so that you could live it."

Tags: dating, feminism, sexist men, adventure (all tags)

Permalink | 23 comments

  • I think its easy to sometimes (0 / 0)

    wish that we could freeze time.  Maybe that's what men are kinda saying when they make such remarks.

    Before my kids reached a certain age, I really didn't know how either of us would deal with dating and mating.  Turned out to be not a big deal.  Sometimes, I've found that people who haven't been very happy or satisfied in their marriages/relationships are those that are the most troubled by their adult or nearly adult aged children experiencing that part of life.  Makes sense for them, I suppose.

    by tjb22 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:02:45 AM PDT

  • what do you mean by "date"? (0 / 0)

    I once knew a woman well into her 20's who had never dated.

    My daughter did not have a "boyfriend" until her sophomore year of college.  I presume this then meant one on one dates.  Up until that point she had a great many friends of both genders and spent a great deal of time on those group "dates".  She went to Prom and Winter Ball, with these male friends as escorts usually going in groups to the dances and attending some after dance activity as a group.  She had a male friend who would get together with her and a girl friend once a week to watch Dawson's Creek, rotating houses.  She remains close to these friends and has created a similar circle male and female friends in college.

    Having said all that, I ask what do you mean by "date".  I've had to counsel so many middle schoolers who "date" and I've had so many young female students whose goal is "to be able to keep a boyfriend".  
    I also had a friend (a mom of one of these male friends of my daughter; they met in kindergarten) who regretted having one boyfriend in high school.  She said she felt she missed so many experiences because she was tied into doing what they would do together on a "date".

    I've never considered my daughter's life anything but exiting, well traveled, and well rounded (I think she would agree) and she did not "date" until into her 20's.

    "The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution." Paul Cezanne

    by educonfidential on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:17:16 AM PDT

    • By well into her 20's (0 / 0)

      I meant late 20's, but I also think it depends on desire and whether a person chooses celibacy or has it thrust upon them.  

      I'm not thinking of an exact age, and I'm well aware that everyone is different.  Your daughter sounds like she's led a very interesting life and chose other things over being bound to a serious boyfriend.  I guess "date" was a poor choice of words.  I mean romance, if that makes sense.  I think most people care to have it in their lives sooner or later.  

      This is not meant to be insulting to people who have different priorities, but I find it disturbing and sexist that there are fathers who actively wish their daughters something other then healthy development.  Also, my guess is that these guys aren't exactly the type who are up nights hoping their daughters have "exciting, well traveled and well rounded" lives.  In my mind, this is about parenting, not adults who are too busy to date.  I guess the larger issue to me is that sometimes accepting our children's healthy development means sacrificing our own peace of mind.

      And yes, I agree that in middle school or at any age, romance should only be one corner of the picture.

      by Erin on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:30:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I think you've made (0 / 0)

        an important distinction.  I think what she learned in those years was about relationships, friendship, and most importantly who she is and what she wanted in life.  I think that makes the choices in "romance" all the more rewarding and healthy.  This includes the breakups and the "power" struggles in these committed relationships.
        As parents, I think we wondered what those years would look like and as they turned out, entirely organically, on their own worked well for everyone. I might add my older son followed the same model and I see him sooooo much more ahead of the curve in the relationship world than many other young men.  My youngest decided to ask a young lady to be his "girlfriend" in February of his senior year.  They continued until the spring of their sophomore year (at different colleges 1 hour apart).  He was distraught when the break-up came and has not entered into a serious relationship so far.  He does have many friend who are girls.  And as he laments many girls are very aggressive in trying to get him to "take them home".  He thinks part of his appeal is the fact that he chooses (for health and athletic reasons) to not drink very much and definitely not binge. Hmmmmm.
        I guess I'm pretty lucky to have my kids share these confidences and the ups and downs of their "romances".  Good diary........such a rocky path sometimes!

        "The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution." Paul Cezanne

        by educonfidential on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:46:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • I think often what they mean is, (0 / 0)

    I don't want her to have sex, or at least I don't want to know about it.  Which is equally skeevy.  

    My in-laws are a bunch of prejudiced hillbillies, but they certainly don't take this approach.  They welcome kids SOs into the family right away.  This does seem to lead to very little dating and a lot of early marriage, with not-so-great results.  But also to a strong, connected, supportive family that includes the exes to a degree.

    by lonespark on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:25:56 AM PDT

  • Not so sexist... (0 / 0)

    I have a 3 year old son and I feel the same way - with all of the stories we hear about oral sex in 6th grade, technical virgins, and "prostiTOTS" I often say that I'll send him to live with monks at 13 (jokingly).

    I think that while it may not be a great joke to make in front of children (talking about shooting), I understand the Dad's feelings.

    I am pretty feminist but with all that's going on in the world I understand his feelings. When my teenage stepdaughter lived with us I had a hard time balancing her need to experiment with relationships and the need to protect her. I am closer to her age than her father's so I understood her point of view but was still fiercely protective.

    Stephanie Schiff Virginia Beach, VA Bush made me a Democrat, Obama made me a believer!

    by StephSchiff on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:51:58 AM PDT

    • I'll admit (0 / 0)

      my kids are 4 and seven months, so I have a lot to learn.  

      As teen pregnancy goes, the thought of my son getting someone pregnant scares me more then the thought of my daughter getting pregnant, since it's the girl who gets to call the shots.  I agree that the woman should get more say in what happens, but it still scares me for my son.  At this point, though, I still hope he gets a girlfriend some day, or, better yet, a boyfriend (yeah, yeah, I know).

      But few would say "I think it would be best for my daughter to die an 80-year-old virgin".  What they mean is "I would be more comfortable if my daughter died an 80-year-old virgin".  That's what bothers me, although I hear what you're saying about it not being such a clear line.

      by Erin on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:00:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Just before reading this post (0 / 0)

    I saw this headline.

    No comment.

    Miles and His Favorites: The World As Seen By an Eight Year Old

    by Hillary on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:59:27 AM PDT

  • Dads say it because they were once BOYS! (0 / 0)

    I think that dads joke about this because they remember all to well how they behaved as teenage boys and young men. Many probably didn't always treat girls the way a dad would want their little girl to be treated. Maybe they realize that they didn't fully grow up until the late 20's and just want their daughters to skip all the messy stuff until then!

    Moms, however, were young girls once, and most of us can say that we've handled boys well enough to not worry about our daughters.

    by jenna on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:08:29 AM PDT

    • This was my take as well (0 / 0)

      Men thinking back to their own youths are probably creeped out when they project their daughters into the imagination of a teenage boy.

      by lyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:50:03 AM PDT

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    • I always find it interesting.. (0 / 0)

      ... that on his Podcasts, Dan Savage has had a few parents of newly out gay men, and has repeatedly been saying (paraphrased) "we tend to be more protective of our daughters because we know men are assholes. Now your son is your daughter, you need to be that protective of him, too, because there are men out there who will try to exploit him."

      My tendancy, on the other hand, is to feel like anyone can be exploitative. I certainly knew girls who were and boys who were really great guys, although yes, there do seem to be more men in the "asshole" bracket.

      "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

      by Expat Briton on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:16:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • one thing to consider (0 / 0)

    and it is what we have done: the opposite gender parent have "the talk" and of course subsequent addendums to "the talk" as age and experience grow.  For my sons, hearing the news from me (with that feminist flavor) perhaps (I like to think) impacted how they see the young women/girls in their lives.  And continuing to have the conversation meant they had to look at girls/women in a light other than "boys will be boys" sentiment.
    I think after my daughter was informed and grew in her confidence having her dad talk with her about relationships gave her a male perspective.  She didn't have to guess about what guys thought or would think.  
    And of course the real impact comes from seeing how the important adults in their lives act in their own relationships with each other.  

    "The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution." Paul Cezanne

    by educonfidential on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:15:05 AM PDT

  • I joke about sending my daughter (0 / 0)

    to convent school. She is pretty boy crazy at age 5! She has a crush on an 8 year old friend and is always trying to sit next to him at church and/or kiss him! I am intimidated by my ability to not scare her, but to also warn/adequately protect her...

    My insecurity is not really about her, its about me.

    by Suzanne77 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:31:26 AM PDT

    • kindergarten girls (0 / 0)

      The girls were pretty predatory at my son's kindergarten, always chasing the boys around and claiming them.  I think it's a phase; it seems to have died down in first grade.  Though I do think two of the girls are sweet on my little guy, and he's enjoying the attention . . .

      by lyn on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:53:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • this bugs the hell out of me too (0 / 0)

    It implies that there is something unnatural or wrong about dating and sex. I hope Lily has a better handle on her ideas about sex than I did at 20. It worked out pretty well for me, but my mom's hang ups were definitely passed on to me.

    That, and it isn't dating that creates the oral-sex /  everything-but virgin / all i want is a boyfriend!!! scenarios- it's lower self esteem and the pull of the crowd more often than not. Those type of "relationships" are not about the dating so much as they are about having a random experience.

    I think freedom to have relationships with members of the opposite (or same) sex, open communication about sex and consequences and a healthy self esteem make for better choices. Sure, I might wind up with a kid who is sexually active a little earlier than I'd like, but as long as the choices she makes are well informed, safe and based in what SHE wants and not what someone tells her to want (and that she's not in a position where she feels she needs to hide anything from her parents) then that's a better scenario, IMO. The scary part isn't the "will she have sex some day," it's the "will she be ready, will I have taught her enough, and will she be safe and self confident".

    by lilianna28 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:35:44 PM PDT

  • My husband (0 / 0)

    doesn't say that, so much as he intends to scare the bejezzus out of her boyfriends.  Not to scare them away, but to make sure they realize if they do something she does not want, he will end them.

    he's the same way with his sisters.  Totally fine with them being sexually active, doesn't even ick him out the way it would if I knew my bro was getting laid (he isn't).  However, the one boyfriend who tried to guilt his sister into sex?  He got a surprise visit.

    What do you mean, uh-oh? Toddler & baby pictures

    by round peg inna square hole on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:43:14 PM PDT

  • when men say (0 / 0)

    they don't want their little girls dating, I think they are projecting their own sexual attitudes / behavior on to their child's future suitors -- and not liking it a bit!

    I don't have a daughter.  My hope for my son is that he has joyful, respectful, healthy, mutually satisfying relationships, sexual or not.  I think if I had a daughter it would be the same idea.

    by mamacita on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:40:11 PM PDT

  • I asked hubby today (0 / 0)

    about his attitude toward dating had we had a son. He said, "If he ever hurt someone else's little girl, I'd END him."

    I think as far as "projection" goes, my hubby was a nice boy and he would've wanted our hypothetical son to be a nice guy too.

    by Suzanne77 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 02:28:38 PM PDT

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