Mother Talkers

How To Explain Suicide To Children

Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 07:48:05 AM PDT

Thankfully, this is an area I have no personal experience, but a recent writer to Berkeley Parents Network sought advice on how to explain her family's history of depression and suicide to her daughters.

My husband and I both have a family history of depression and suicide. My older brother (age 19), my husband's mother (age 42), and my grandfather--long before I was born--(50-ish?) all took their own lives. Our daughters, ages 6 and 10, don't know about this yet. They have asked questions from time to time about my brother's death (they have seen his pictures) and my husband's mother (they love his father's current wife, their Grandma). So far, we have only explained that they died from illness, and didn't go any further than that. How and when do we explain suicide to our daughters? I should mention that our daughters are both adopted, so our family's mental illness is not part of their health history. Our 10-year-old daughter in particularly is extremely sensitive, and doesn't like to hear sad and painful stories. But we don't want to keep "secrets" (my own family did that when my brother died, telling lies--and asking us to tell lies--about his death to all our close relatives and friends, including many of my siblings who did not find out for years). My grandfather's suicide was always a secret, and would have remained a secret -- until one of my siblings found a death certificate with suspicious language. What do you think -- when is the right time, and how to talk about it?
--Still grieving after 35 years

The BPN moderator offered a link to a previous discussion and the advice seemed sound. Most people who responded recommended the mother seek professional advice on how to broach the topic with her children and help them cope with both the information and possible mental illness. All of them said she should tell her children who may blame themselves for the death of a loved one or, when they are older, feel resentful for being left in the dark. Also, secrecy only intensifies the stigma of suicide, at least one reader said.

I know this is a sensitive topic, but what pieces of advice would you offer this mother? At what age is it appropriate to tell a child?

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Tags: bipolar disorder, depression, suicide, Berkeley Parents Network, advice (all tags)

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  • This one is a no-brainer (0 / 0)

    She must tell.  This is one of those places where an adoptive family is different from a bio family.  Our children must be able to trust their adoptive families to be completely open and honest about family background.

    Adopted children were not born into happy families.  Their histories normally contain an element of pain and sadness - sometimes severe - that the children must learn to face and accept.  It is the job of the adoptive parent to guide them through difficult elements of their background in an age appropriate way, but it is not our job to mitigate, reinterpret, or otherwise protect them from painful aspects of their families' past.

    Personally I would be as matter-of-fact about this as possible.  "My brother decided he didn't want to live any more" is factual and to the point; the child can guide the questions from there.  I generally find that kids ask as much as they want to know, then stop when they've reached their limit.

  • my husband, committed suicide last year (0 / 0)

    and my mother who was also bi polar attempted suicide when I was a small child. I truly married my mother and that is no co-incidence. I have a 18 year old daughter and we both found him dead .He was in treatment, on 8 meds and nothing was working. In the end I  concur with my therapist ( who also saw him years ago)that it wasn't the bi polar that killed him, but his relationship with his mother that killed him. Specifically his inability to separate from her. I came from a similar family system and while I am not bi polar and not my husband I too have some of the same  co-dependent/emeshment issues as him .I have been writing about some of this if anyone is interested.see below

    http://the-authentic-me.blogspot.com/

    Lots written about the disease, but not a lot written about family issues and bi-polar disorder. For me like my daughter the issue is not the suicide, but what its like for a child to grow up with a seriously depressed parent. When I  took my daughter to therapy with me..what emerged was how she often felt like a grown up with him, and how because of his fragility she could never get mad at him.Me I had to keep small and stay out of the way.When my mother went into a mental hospital, I was never told why. And I never asked. But I always told me daughter about her Dads illness, and give it a name when she was old enough to understand.

  • This is tough, (0 / 0)

    but I think she needs to be honest.  My DD's biological father "attempts" suicide at least twice a year.  I didn't find out about this habit until she was 8 yo (she's 11 now, he isn't exactly the most involved parent in the world.) It was difficult to talk about it with her, but I'm really glad I did.  The fact that I didn't hide that from her reinforced the trust she already had in me.  Mental illness is an illness as the writer states, so she has not lied to her kids yet, but they may resent her later on in life for hiding it.

    let me get back to you on that.....

    by face121 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:33:13 AM PDT

  • explaining to a sensitive kid (0 / 0)

    My son is also ours through adoption, so I work very hard to be honest about everything, even the difficult and painful. He sees the news or hears the radio sometimes about a murder/suicide and has sometimes joked about killing himself. (usually in fun but sometimes in frustration - he is dramatic and passionate.) I have a cousin who committed suicide and left two children, years ago but I tell him that usually the person's brain is confused and thinks that nothing will be better ever, but that it leaves behind a lot of angry and sad family. I just always try my best to let him know he can ask me anything and I will answer - even explaining some rubbish and foul words he hears at school, just so he knows what something means and that it is not okay. I am fierce in protecting him from bullies, and try to guide him to feel compassion for others.

    Hiding family secrets is the worst. Then you can have the kids of someone who committed suicide, and they think they are alone with their problem. Knowing a family history - a true one - is a gift and I wish that I could tell you how much I wish I had one for my China-born son.

  • Close to home (0 / 0)

    As I've shared a number of times here on MT, my brother died of suicide about 13 years ago. Someday I'll have to face this problem myself, how to tell my son. Even though I am a therapist, there is no way I would try this without talking to a therapist myself a few times about this specific dilemma. Why? To explore how, when, and why to talk about my brother's death, without the distortions I bring to it having experienced the death myself.

    A couple things cross my mind:

    I disagree - professionally and personally -  with the perspective posted above that suicide can be presented as a decision. It is existentially (quite a massive concept for a kid to grasp, no?), and then again it's not - at least not without major caveats. One caveat is that people with major mental illness, of which severe depression is one, are experiencing cognitive distortions that skew the meaning of "decision." Another is that oftentimes alcohol and drug abuse are involved, also skewing the meaning of decision.

    There's the story of the death, and the story of the person, which to my mind are not totally the same. One of my challenges will be to help my son know who my brother was - to have a general sense of his uncle - and not to cloud who he was based on how he died. This is one of the burdens of suicide, it's very difficult to bring balance to our memories of the person.

    And certainly we have to talk about depression as part of our family history.

    • view (0 / 0)

      Thanks for posting your thoughts on whether suicide is a decision or not.  I agree that it's not quite a decision, for the reasons you said.  

      So much of our culture's view of mental illness is tainted by this idea that we can decide to be happy, or not be addicts, etc., and it really hurts those who suffer.  I know all illness carries some stigma but I can't wait for the day when mental illness is at least equal in stigma to everything else.  And of course, the day when it carries none.

    • Oh, I should add (0 / 0)

      Even though I am a therapist, there is no way I would try this without talking to a therapist myself a few times about this specific dilemma.

      I am feeling the need to say that of course I have been in therapy about my brother's death, at the time and a couple of times since. Would be professionally remiss not to, not to mention just even harder for me personally than it needs to be.

      But I've never talked to a therapist about how to talk to my son about it, is what I meant.

      • I think that's wise (0 / 0)

        I mean, not that I have any great wisdom on the subject and my approval shouldn't make a whit's worth of difference, but I like the idea of consulting with a therapist. I would find it reassuring.

        Good luck, Rachel. I'm so sorry that this is a conversation you'll have to have.

    • Story of the person (0 / 0)

      I'm sorry for your loss.

      This isn't specific to suicide, but: I think that is a good point about giving your son a sense of who your brother is.  My uncle, who lived thousands of miles from our family, died of cancer when I was 8 so I never knew him.  It's hard for others who did to really convey a sense of what he was like.

      My grandmother had depression and tried to commit suicide in the 60s.  She ended up being hospitalized and receiving 49 shock treatments.  I wonder whether they contributed to the Alzheimer's disease that eventually killed her.

      • That was kind of a rambling reply (0 / 0)

        Sorry about that.

        • No worries (0 / 0)

          I think it's really hard to convey what people were like, after they have passed, and are an abstraction of sorts to a kid. We usually have some pictures, movies, some personal belongings and family stories, which are essential. I think one of the tough things about it is building in natural opportunities to reminisce about the person ... the person's birthday, the anniversary of the day they died, making a point to talk about the person while going through family albums, that kind of thing.

          Your grandmother must have been suffering terribly. They knew so little about depression back then, it's so sad.

    • decisions (0 / 0)

      From an adult perspective I entirely agree that suicide is not a decision.  But I don't think a 6 year old is capable of understanding that yet.  At that age kids fully understand that decisions are not always good ones, and not necessarily conscious choices.  Children this age are wrestling with the concept of self control and they spend a lot of time thinking through this sort of thing.  But to suggest to a 6 year old that he can be forced to harm himself by forces completely beyond his control would be I think terrifying.

      I had a much beloved uncle who died of alcoholism.  One of my kids had a birthfather whose official cause of death is listed as 'too much alcohol', with no other information available to us.  This is not something we can shy away from; adoption studies clearly show that alcoholism is strongly passed down from birthfather to birthson, regardless of the adoptive environment.  So I use my uncle as a proxy to talk through the issue.

      I do not for one second believe that my family oriented uncle chose to lose control, tear his family apart, and die in a flophouse.  But my son wants to understand why my uncle did the things he did.  It will be many years before he can fully comprehend the nature of alcoholism, but I don't have the luxury of waiting for my son's understanding to mature.

      There is a great deal of reassurance to a young child in believing that there is some level of control.  My son's widowed birthmom may not have had much of a choice over whether to rear him, but he is comforted to know that his relinquishment was her decision to make.  Likewise, his birthfather's death was likely an outcome of choices he'd made.  My son's understanding of these "decisions" will certainly deepen and evolve as he matures, and I will continue to do my best to redefine concepts along the way.

      • Language (0 / 0)

        I like the language above about a person's brain got confused and the person believed things would never get better. Seems to me to cover a lot of bases truthfully in a way a kid can understand.

        I hear you about reassurance for control - kids (not to mention adults) find a lot of comfort in that. OTOH, if someone dies of cancer or a car accident, do you feel the same need to put an angle on it that says somebody was in control?

        I think that's why mental illness and substance abuse throws people. There is certainly control and decision making before the very first drink, but depending on the person's makeup, other than that, I don't know, all bets are off. It's terrifying and tragic.

        • actually (0 / 0)

          My mother was a smoker who died of lung cancer when my kids were small.  My kids definitely obsess over her death.  I have told them that she was addicted, that it is very hard to stop when you are addicted, that she liked cigarettes and didn't try to stop, and that she didn't believe that cigarettes would make her die, but she was wrong.  I try very hard to walk the line between her death being her own fault on the one hand, and her having no control on the other.  Neither of those is true.  I think they're both OK with that.

          My primary concern right now is making sure my son does not believe that he is doomed to follow in his father's footsteps, and that he doesn't come to believe that as he learns about the hereditary nature of alcoholism.  It's hard for me to know for sure how I'd deal with a history of mental illness and/or suicide; I'm pretty sure I'd include something like the language above.  But I think I would still want my child to believe that he would be capable of making a different choice.

          • Oh, I see what you're saying now (0 / 0)

            This connected the dots for me. It's not helpful or truthful to feel that he's doomed to follow in his father's footsteps - or anyone, no matter what the family history. I have to watch out for that as well ... if depression were to happen for my son, he needs to know and believe there is treatment for it, and that is a choice, along those lines. I got it.

  • it shouldn't be a secret (0 / 0)

    My grandfather killed himself long before I was born when my dad was a kid.  Growing up, I knew he had died, but I always was told it was from illness.  When I was around 12, I found out the truth, but felt like I had been majorly deceived the whole time.

    It was still pretty much considered a family secret and something that wasn't really discussed.  Then, last year, it was printed in the New York Times in a real estate story about my father's old house, and my mother-in-law sent me an email asking if there was any relation.  I guess the secret's out.

    So I think kids should be told when it comes up.  I'm not sure the best age appropriate way is, but maybe you can say he died from depression and talk about it like it's a disease.  I haven't thought this through yet, but considering family history, I guess I should before my kids ask questions.

  • tell, yes (0 / 0)

    but in saying yes, I do acknowledge that this is a hell of a journey to have to make.

    My paternal great-grandfather spent the last decades of his life in a mental instutition (long story, won't explain here). My great-grandmother, her daughters (one my grandmother) and their husbands told all of their children that the man had died long before they were born. In actual fact, he died when my dad was 13 and he found out about it when he was 16 or so because he discovered a pile of Christmas cards that my great-grandfather wrote my great-grandmother every year until six months before his death. Can you imagine the horror he must have felt? Everyone - the grandmother he revered, his parents, his aunt and uncle, lied. He had a grandfather he never got to meet. And, to worsen the matter, his mother was a social worker and his father was a psychiatrist. It's an anger he still has now, and he turns 70 this year.

    • my point (0 / 0)

      I forgot to put this in. My point is, yes, this woman explaining to her kids is going to be difficult and painful. But try to imagine not telling and maintaining this fiction for years and years until it is discovered. I think it's pretty clear which is the worse path.

      • Sad (0 / 0)

        Wow, Rachel, that is very sad. Your story shows that even the people who know the most about mental illness still feel that fear and shame - or just the sheer pain of watching someone else suffer, and trying to protect others. But your grandfather didn't feel protected.

        And yeah, the thought of trying to disavow someone or something that happened, oh lordy.

        • no kidding! (0 / 0)

          isn't it horrible? I mean, yeah, this was the early 50s, but still...

          I think the more universal point is that while explaining things like suicide/mental illness/cancer/terminal illness to children is difficult, what is the alternative? I don't know of one person who's ever said, "you know, I really appreciated being deceived all these years. I'm really a much better person for it now." Lord knows that over the years, I've had a lot of "WTF?" moments over how certain sensitive family information has been presented, but never felt that I was better off not knowing.

  • "No choice" (0 / 0)

    This is what I heard from countless psychiatrists as I went through innumerable drug regimens and 4 rounds of shock "treatment". It didn't do me much good to have my feelings of helplessness confirmed by the so-called experts. That said, it is important to take into account the many different kinds of mental illness. For me, it was much more damaging to hear that I had no control than to find out that I did/do. For others, it is important to know that their illness is not something that they may be able to control without intervention of doctors and medication and sometimes those things fail. Point being, I think that stating an absolute either way with regard to choice/control is dangerous. Reality demands complex answers.

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