Mother Talkers

children's fine dining?

Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 07:09:15 AM PDT

so, the other forum i spend too many working hours checking obsessively is a work related one, cheftalk.com.
there have been a couple of recent posts from some of my fellow (male) chefs about parents bringing their children into fine dining restaurants, as well as some sneering remarks about feeding children chicken fingers and pasta.
http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/late-night-cafe-non-food-cooking-discussion/42497-magnum-opus-touchy- subject.html
and:
http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/professional-chef-s-forum/42473-people-their-stupid-kids.html

What do you think?  

Poll

do you bring your kids to nice restaurants?

14%5 votes
0%0 votes
76%26 votes
8%3 votes

| 34 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: food, dining, nutrition (all tags)

Permalink | 33 comments

  • No (0 / 0)

    we rarely spend money on fine dining, and when we do (maybe this will sound awful?) wouldn't bring the kids, who would bring us down in such a situation and wouldn't appreciate it.

    However, we recently had a playdate with a little girl who started playing restaurant, reciting the wine list, making recommendations, and it was cute, although my I don't think my dd had the foggiest idea what she was doing.

  • That chef! (0 / 0)

    He seems a bit crotchety, and I kind of understand why.  When I was waiting tables, I HATED waiting on kids that didn't know how to behave.  OTOH, I take my kids, ages 1 and 11 everywhere.  I wouldn't go if my 1 yo was due for a nap, crabby or whatever, and I don't take them at busy times.  I think children need to learn how to behave in a more formal atmosphere, and it doesn't hurt them to expand their horizon beyond chicken nuggets and french fries.  My kids have very diverse pallets, most people are amazed when the 11 yo orders Ceaser salad and "adult" entrees, and the 1 yo  gets his own Ceaser.  

  • I think it depends on the kids (0 / 0)

    Some kids are well behaved and will eat just about anything. Others are running around terrorizing the staff and other diners.

    My DD will order a salad a lot. DS is pretty adventurous in his eating as well.  But they did go through their chicken and mac & cheese stage.

  • i don't have a problem when I do it (0 / 0)

    of course if it's US with my daughter, she's a perfect angel. But when I'm out on my once-every-two-months date with DH and I look around and see kids everywhere? I get totally irritated. What a hypocrite am I!

    if you wobba cypress trees then I will wobba you

    by thais on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:19:30 AM PDT

  • We go, and started when Darling Girl (0 / 0)

    was just a few months old.

    We always go for the earliest seating. We brought snacky food for her and quiet toys. I routinely just mashed up some of my food for her to eat (off a bread plate) and she grew up being a terrific diner!

    If she starts to have a meltdown, guess what? Even the fanciest places have to go boxes. :)

    Recently we took her to lovely resturaunt in St. Augustine and got the prix fixe tasting menu (SIX courses, yum!, skipped the wine pairing) and the chef made her some (deeelicious) chicken, she had the bisque, bread, a tiny salad, even an oyster! The staff was awesome, they treated her like any other guest but with a bit more fuss over her. They got REALLY good tips that night.

    Most of the other diners didn't even know she was there till we left.

  • Like Erin, (0 / 0)

    I've often viewed the "fine dining" experience as something that I want to save for "adult time".  That's  usually been my time away from my kids.  

    We have taken children occasionally, but it does depend upon the child, the occasion, and the restaurant.  

  • Timing is everything (0 / 0)

    We take DD everywhere, but only to early/first seatings.  We have no shame about leaving a big tip and abandoning the mission if things don't go well, although we've only done that once or twice in almost 3 years.  And we've found that a lot of places we went to before kids are actually quite kid friendly.  

    I don't mind others bringing kids either, even if I'm on "date night" or it's late, as long as they're not distracting or misbehaving over a long period of time.  Kids act up and that's fine, if your kids throw food during the whole meal and I am caught in the crossfire for 1.5 hours, I'm not so fine with it.  

    We're really looking forward to Kids restaurant week in Chicago this June as another chance to try a few more fun places.  

    --R

  • We have done it all her life (0 / 0)

    We try to go early, or on slow days, and yes, we always tip well. Sometimes it's just us, but more often it's us plus visitors. We live in a very tourism-friendly area, and in general, the restaurants are happy to see business and used to dealing with kids.

    We went to a couple of very upscale restaurants in Mendocino, with the whole extended family, a couple of years ago, complete with 4-year-old kid. One of them has paper table coverings and provided crayons - I think the adults enjoyed it as much as she did. I hadn't realized what talented artists my aunts were! A waitress at the other earned my eternal gratitude by taking my daughter aside conspiratorially - she needed a big favor, you see - would my daughter watch and play with these toy dinosaurs? They were lonely and the waitress had not had time to play with them today, you see.

    Certainly when/if the child gets cranky, I or DH take her outside. Generally we have not had to abandon ship with to-go boxes, but we would if need be. We've had a couple of trying times, but mostly she's been quite well behaved, and is generally not the loudest or most annoying patron in the restaurant. I have plenty of adult friends who are far worse! :-) (Oh, the stories we have...)

    As for the chicken fingers - for goodness' sake, people, why are the kid menus so AWFUL? There's no reason you can't offer a tiny chicken breast, or a  or a stir fry, a tiny pizza, or a small portion of anything else your restaurant might normally serve. The side can be veggies - it does not have to be fries. My toddler loved salmon, and rather than get the Authentic Kraft Macaroni And Cheese kid meal, I'd just feed her part of my salmon. One local restaurant became a favorite explicitly because it made gorgeous kid's plates with elaborately plated fruit. Be creative! Make Mollie Katzen's Salad People or Spatulata's Wiener Dogs.

  • Once in a while (0 / 0)

    It usually works out all right, particularly with the 7 year old, but there is rarely anything the picky 4 year old will eat.  If they get bored or agitated we take them outside, that is all right.

  • it depends (0 / 0)

    we don't typically go to Fine Eating Establishments, because that's just not our style. But we do go out to eat at various restaurants and will take Jess with us. Like everyone else, we try to be sensitive, go to early dining sessions, take things to distract (coloring books) while waiting for food to come, etc. Generally, it works. Jess has the table manners appropriate for a nearly 3 year old; uses all the utensils, sits in the seat, not a howling screamer (as yet). So far, so good.

    But I gotta go along with Shenanigans (not the first time I've typed that!) - what is it with children's menus? I mean, if I wanted to feed my kid chicken nuggets, I'dve bought a pack of that for the price of the plate on the kid's menu. Usually, if the kid's menu is awful, we order something from the adult's menu and ask for a half-portion. No problems so far with that strategy.

    • asdf (0 / 0)

      If not a half portion of an adult entree, try the appetizers, or- my kids' fave is usually a cup of soup until they're old enough to read the menu for themselves.

      You can also order the kids mac and cheese meal along with a cup of chili to make some pretty decent chili mac. "Kid friendly" doesn't have to be bland and tasteless.

      As the family's grown, I've become less enthusiastic about taking so many kids to higher priced restaurants. Anything better than an average family oriented restaurant is saved as a special trip with just Mom and Dad for their birthday meal. We do watch one or two food shows and occasionally spend the time to make some really excellent food at home.

      • good suggestion (0 / 0)

        re: appetizers. I usually totally blitz past the appitizers section of the menu. I'll remember that for next time.

        Melbourne is known as the foodie's paradise of Australia, and we're really lucky in that there are tons of really good restaurants that are reasonably priced. Plus, most restaurants in our area are pretty relaxed about having children. But we also spend a lot of time cooking at home because I enjoy it so much. So, I feel like we've got the best of all worlds!

      • Yes, appetizers (0 / 0)

        I've often used that, and/or gotten an appetizer + adult dishes for the adults, and all shared.

        Now that she's 7, we tend to order off the adult menu if the kid menu is too awful... but this is changing now that she can read the kid menu, and sometimes there are wonderful forbidden foods, like corn dogs. When I read the menu to her, I just skipped past those... ;-) Sigh. At least she's incented to read.

        But to any restaurant people out there - I tell you, a great kid menu and we'll come back again and again and again.

        We don't eat out as much any more for various reasons. But one very nice option that we have (yes, way out here in our tiny valley) is a quite excellent restaurant. It doesn't look like much from the outside, but the food is terrific, and even though it's not cheap, when you add in gas, getting a burger at the Cafe is cheaper than driving into town, more delicious, and we're supporting our community. I find it quite nice sometimes to call in an order and then go pick up a to-go order. Oddly, no kid menu - even though it's very kid-friendly - but I eat DD's leftovers for lunch the next day. Problem solved.

    • When we were in NYC (0 / 0)

      for our anniversary several years ago, we looked into having a dinner at Tavern on the Green.  The kids meals were outrageously expensive for typical kid fare. $25 for a hot dog?  I think not. For the same money, we went to Ruths Chris for our blowout dinner and they split a steak and potato.

      Since my kids have been old enough to crave anything other than kids meal junk, I've been willing to shell out the extra money for an adult meal, with real food, that they probably won't finish.  I usually can't finish it either.

  • Sigh (0 / 0)

    my kids won't eat anything but crap right now.  We're like the stereotypical family- kids eat mac and cheese, bagels or hamburgers (though DD doesn't eat period beyond apples, yogurt and peanut butter crackers)- and we just give in.  I'm too exhausted by the rest of my life to fight this fight- and I'm absolutely certain I wouldn't win anyway.  We rarely eat out- unless you count Mama's Diner- where I'm the cook, waitress, and busboy.

    Sigh.

  • No way (0 / 0)

    DS #1 is getting better at restaurants, but he's still two and when it's time to go, it's time to go ("Get down.  GET DOWN.")  DS #2 is 7 months and a dream baby but has discovered how much fun it is to screech at the top of his lungs.  On the rare occasion we eat out, it's pizza, Mexican, or a casual restaurant with an outdoor patio, and always kid-friendly places.  I don't enjoy myself if I worry the whole time about annoying everyone around us, so why spend the money and effort?

  • Food allergies here (0 / 0)

    Dining with kids with food allergies can be nerve wracking.  We have a pizza place that sells by the slice that we know is safe so that is about the extent of my kids' dining out.

    One of the highlights of the pizza place is the brick enclosed walkway next to the parking lot.  It's in a little strip mall and the boys run back and forth down the walkway after they eat.

    I've noticed that most of our fine diners on this thread seem to be girls.  Our boys are pretty active so timing would be everything if we attempted a fancy place.  They did well the one time we tried.  It was my dad's retirement dinner and the chef was one of his close friends so we were confident that he would be very careful with their allergies.  They also do well in my parents' dining room.  We try to have Sunday dinner with them so that the kids learn how to behave at a nice table.

    • that's an interesting comment... (0 / 0)

      in terms of allergies, are there any vegan places around you? If I remember correctly you've got soy, nuts, dairy and egg going on? We're really lucky in that there's a great cafe that has a great vegan selection; I can buy Jess cakes and cookies without worry.

      How do you go on home cooking, if I can ask? Do you find there's a good selection of all-inclusive recipes for stuff? I do have an ulterior motive in asking, but indulge me, if you will.

      • Things are improving (0 / 0)

        We are down to egg and nut allergies as my second son has outgrown the soy issues.  Dairy was never a problem thank goodness.  Right now we're mainly concerned about the peanut allergy as it is pretty severe with my oldest.

        Vegan places haven't been much of an option as they tend to replace dairy with soy products and we only recently outgrew the soy allergy.  I'd be a little leery with them on the nut issue as we're cautious with legumes and tree nuts even though the real problem is peanuts.

        Home cooking tends to work well for me.  I can usually work around the eggs and it was the best way to avoid soy when I had to.  I don't have any particular favorite sites but I look up a lot of recipes on the internet.

    • asdf (0 / 0)

      We've done fine dining with all five, the first four of whom are boys. It's just not optimal. It's like church or the library. Yes, it's a learning opportunity and they should be allowed to experience it to its fullest, but I'd rather do it without them and enjoy myself instead of policing their behavior and entertaining them during the down time. Plus in a restaurant situation, being the intermediary waitress- no thanks. I'm selfish like that. Sue me. And unlike church or the library, fancy restaurants aren't cheap.

      I've heard that it's becoming more economical to go out to restaurants instead of eating at home. Grocery prices are rising in stores, but restaurants are able to get bulk discounts and are competing with each other for customers by offering more and more specials. I haven't tested the rumor. I know our favorite Mexican place stopped putting bell peppers in the fajitas, and a lot of fast food places seem to add a charge for tomatoes now.

      • boys (0 / 0)

        My high energy boys have always been surprisingly well behaved in restaurants, so we have no trouble taking them as long as they'll eat the food.  Which they usually won't.  They're both so picky (with non-overlapping preferences) that even the kids menu can be a problem.  Fine dining?  Fugedaboutit.

        One advantage of living in California is that the food here is generally pretty good, so we're happy with the food at casual, child friendly places.  In our case that usually means either asian, southwest/mex, or taquerias.  

  • We only eat out if it's absolutely impossible to (0 / 0)

    avoid it.  I discovered that it's no fun to have one of us sit at the table while the other one walks a toddler around.  

    Now, we just got back from a vacation that required us to eat in restaurants and my kids were delightful and well behaved - it only took 10 years to get to this point.  

    A really great idea for a date night is to feed the child early, put them to bed and then have a nice dinner together - bottle of wine, music, dress up a bit, candlelight...all the romance without the pricetag.

    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

    by lonestar canuck on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:37:04 PM PDT

  • We Eat Out a Lot (0 / 0)

    Kid-friendly restaurant reviews are a part of my website, but I'd probably eat out a lot anyway because I love to.

    I've learned a lot about where I can and cannot take my kids and when.  Fine dining?  No, not over a certain price range (about $19 a plate, around here) because they're just too disruptive, unless it is Mother's Day or Easter brunch or some such thing.  But that doesn't mean chicken fingers and French fries. Or at least, not every time.  There are a few inexpensive restaurants around here that specialize in fresh, quality food, and offer great kids meals like a "picnic plate" of a baguette with fruit and cheese or their choice of sandwich with the crusts cut off and a nice assortment of fruit on the side.

    We also eat a lot of Mexican food (beans, rice, and tortillas goes over great) and Vietnamese food (big bowl of chicken noodle soup) and I've found that as a general rule restaurants of other than European/American influence have a much better attitude and set up for children.  I have heard that kids are welcome in restaurants in Europe, so I'm not sure why American food culture is so exclusive, but it definitely is.

    http://www.tacomamama.com

    by jenyum on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:46:33 AM PDT

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