Mother Talkers

Weekend Open Thread

by Elisa

Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 08:13:24 AM PDT

In case you are interested, Markos will be on the Bill Maher show tonight with professor Cornel West and feminist writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who we recently talked about here.

Long after we had that discussion, I was disappointed to learn that Hirsi Ali is this anti-immigrant, anti-religion -- including protestantism and catholicism -- right wing nut who now works at the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute. Care to bet on who my husband will most clash?

What Is Working Class? Writer Timothy Noah had a fascinating read at Slate about the working class people -- defined as those without college educations -- supposedly abandoning the Democratic Party. I am sure it challenged many people's notions -- like mine! -- on who votes for a certain party and for what reasons. For example, it turns out that that our notion that white working class people are leaving the Democratic Party in droves is limited to the south. He also noted that the number of college educated whites now outnumber those who have none other than a high school diploma -- a complete shift from the 1940s when three-quarters of people did not graduate from high school.

If this is correct, then (Sen. Barack) Obama should apologize to Pennsylvanians not because his gaffe was condescending but because it was inaccurate.

Like everyone else, I thought with the candidates going bowling and shooting down whiskey the electorate was the complete opposite. Then again, these things are not limited to people without college educations. I think amidst all the media and campaign spin, a little perspective is needed.

And who better to offer it than Barbara Ehrenreich, author of Nickel and Dimed. She wrote a poignant response to "Bittergate" for Slate.

No Rest for the Weary: Nearly half of all full-time employees in the United States do not have a single paid sick day while 86 percent of food and public accommodations workers aren't even entitled to sick days, according to statistics released by MomsRising. The group is currently passing around a petition to urge California legislators to support a bill ensuring paid sick days for workers in the state.

Clipping Coupons: Not surprisingly, the coupon is dying along with newspaper readership, according to MSN Money. The good news is they are going online at Supermarkets' websites while the U.S. is seeing the worst food inflation in the last 17 years, according to the Associated Press.

What else is in the news? Have a good weekend all!

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Tags: open thread, MomsRising, sick days (all tags)

Permalink | 84 comments

  • Markos (0 / 0)

    how do you not burst with excitement every time Markos is on tv? I get squee-like and I don't even "know" him.

    Here's a funny but sad story about a fund raiser gone awry. I feel bad for these ladies!

    by lilianna28 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:02:20 AM PDT

    • it is weird (0 / 0)

      yesterday I was on the elliptical machine at the gym, flipping through Newsweek, when I came across an interesting column and glanced at the byline: Markos Moulitsas. It still takes me a minute. To me he's just Markos, my best friend's hubby. We all survived the dot-com implosion of 2000 and near poverty together. Then I see him on Colbert or whatever, and it's like, what the heck? Too funny.

      by Erika on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:52:05 AM PDT

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      • lol (0 / 0)

        Well, even though I 'met' him first online through his site, I still mainly think of him as Elisa's hubby and father of Ari and Eli. I know I think of him as dad first because it just so happened that the first time I ever dropped into the front page post was the announcement of Ari's birth. I was hooked because I loved the obviously human touch and small town community that the site conveyed at that moment :-) Since I've met him at both YK gatherings again with Elisa and kids, that is just how I think of him. When I see him on TV, I pretty much giggle the whole time!!

        I record Bill Maher so this will be fun. I thought he did a great job his first time on the panel and I expect nothing but brilliance tonight too - oh, and some snark.

        Trees, Flowers & Birds SanDiegoDem on all other blogs!

        by Christina on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:29:01 AM PDT

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  • The Slate article was interesting. (0 / 0)

    As in most cases, open ended generalizations are rarely accurate.  

    I think political affiliation is often traditional.  I think the more educated people become, the more likely they often are to break with these traditional roots.  And yes...part of being educated is being more stringent in one's analysis, I suppose.  Therefore, well educated voters are much more likely to hold to idealogical lines, perhaps, because they've mentally gone over, and over again, what holds an ideology together.  So yes, my mainly working class, rust belt city is almost entirely democratic.  Why?  Because they've been that way for a very long time.  Similarly, 50 miles away, the rural working class whites are mainly republican.  Why?  Because they've been that way for a long time.

    And I think the differences between "working class" and "middle class" are fluid at best.  We do have whole new  "classes" of workers that didn't exist  just 30 years ago.  Where do they fit in?  Who knows?  I think how they vote depends upon a number of factors, not least, as I mentioned above, are tradition and locality.  

    by tjb22 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:26:46 AM PDT

  • So exciting! (0 / 0)

    Wow. What a fun opportunity for your hubby. I don't know too much about West, but I've seen him speak a few times (on t.v.), he seems very interesting... I would love the opportunity to hang out with him one day. I hope they both rip Hirsi Ali a new one if she starts in on immigrants.

    I will be having a HUGE estate sale this weekend. Finally. I've been planning it for weeks, but have made every excuse in the book to put it off. My mother moved to Mexico a few months ago; long story short: step-dad passed away and she wanted to be near her brothers and sisters. She basically left me with a house full. Really. 30 years worth of stuff (I really wanna say 'shit'). I've been really overwhelmed and was a little resentful about the whole thing but I'm over it. Thank goodness for my SO who has been SO helpful.

    So here is my question: how much do I sell things for? My mom has things still in their original box, things with tags, and things she paid a lot of money for. Have any of you ever had an estate sale? How did you determine what to charge for things?

    by sandrab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:27:52 AM PDT

    • I haven't done this (0 / 0)

      but a friend recently did with her mom's belongings.  She hired someone who took 30% of the total.  His contribution was pricing (and may have included other services, I"m not sure).  It might be worth it.

      by mamacita on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:13:46 AM PDT

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    • I threaten my mother (0 / 0)

      that if she doesn't go through all her stuff in the next 10-20 years, when she passes / moves in with me (lord alive) I will open her house as an "everything's a dollar" sale. because there's just SO MUCH STUFF.

      That was totally not helpful. I apologize. Maybe e-bay for the boxed stuff?

      by lilianna28 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:16:57 AM PDT

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      • Seriously. (0 / 0)

        After this experience I realize that my mom has major pack rat issues. Who the hell needs, 3 fax machines, four vacuum's, 5 vegetable  choppers, etc...?? There were multiples of EVERYTHING. I had to rent a huge trash bin because we got rid of so much. My step dad had YEARS worth of bills. I found chests full of clothes from the 80's too. It's insane.

        Aside from being an irritating experience, I went to my  home and got rid of things I haven't used in a year.

        by sandrab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:51:20 AM PDT

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    • FIL collects books (0 / 0)

      He does so on the premise that he can make big money by buying books at garage sales for $0.25 and then selling for $1 on eBay if he just does enough volume, but instead he just gets tons of books and lets them pile up.  They are our "inheritance".  We've told him that although we don't believe in book burning from an idealogical standpoint, they're all going into the flames if he doesn't sell before he dies.  

      I went to estate sales with my parents in the 70s, and I don't remember items being priced -- it was more real time negotiation based on how badly the people wanted to get rid of the stuff.  

      --R

      by Rocky on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:21:13 AM PDT

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    • no pricing advice (0 / 0)

      but I would suggest putting an announcement about the sale on your local CraigsList. When I had a garage sale before moving last year, all I did was put a notice on CraigsList and put up a few signs in my neighborhood, and I had a fantastic turnout.

      by Erika on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:49:27 AM PDT

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      • Good Idea (0 / 0)

        We made the signs but hadn't thought of CraigsList.

        by sandrab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 11:01:01 AM PDT

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        • Aren't there (0 / 0)

          organizations that will come pick it all up for charity? The Veterans Assoc. here does that and it's great.

          by GiGi on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:51:20 PM PDT

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          • We donated (0 / 0)

            tons of stuff already to local churches, the local homeless shelter, and most of my moms clothes went to a battered women's shelter.

            What we're selling is all her furniture and decorative stuff, along with my step-dads endless boxes of tools, and books galore.

            What ever doesn't sell this weekend is going to the salvation army.

            by sandrab on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:58:42 PM PDT

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            • My goddess (0 / 0)

              she had a lot of stuff! You weren't kidding about the pack rat-ness of it all. Here's to it being all done this weekend. And, I hope you are taking the tax write-off for the donated goods seeing as you are doing all the work.

              by GiGi on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 03:55:44 PM PDT

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              • Ooh... good tax tip. (0 / 0)

                Hadn't thought of it, but you are right.

                She had a ridiculous amount of EVERYTHING. We sold about 60% of it today and made almost $1,200.00. I got to meet many nice people and the weather was good... I had a great time but I'm totally pooped.

                Part two will be next weekend.

                by sandrab on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:34:08 PM PDT

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    • Hirsi Ali (0 / 0)

      I hope they both rip Hirsi Ali a new one if she starts in on immigrants.

      Yeah. Once she joined AEI  I no longer considered her a feminist. You can't be such a tool and be a part of my club!

      by GiGi on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:53:45 PM PDT

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  • Small town bitterness (0 / 0)

    I grew up in a town of less than 5,000, out in the middle of nowhere, and I still have strong connections there.  I could not possibly fault what Obama said, because in my experience it's entirely true.  And if people are hurt by that truth, maybe they need to be.  "Bitter" may not be the most accurate word, but my hometown is certainly full of people who I can describe in no other way than fearful.  These are people in the middle of the continent who are sure that a terrorist is right around the corner, waiting to kill them.  

    Many people of faith, such as myself, know that there are plenty other people who cling to religious beliefs that exclude rather than include.  By saying certain people are bad Christians and not like us, it helps them deal with their fear.  I'm sure education is a part of that, but that's a rocky line to cross.  I learned a long time ago not to use in an argument with my aunts & uncles the idea that, well, I went to college and I'm kind of smarter than you in certain ways.  As tjb mentioned, having an advanced education does make you analyze and question your own beliefs, as well as others, and to be comfortable doing that.  But I realize that being "right" is some of the only comfort that my uneducated family members have.

    Rachel Maddow had an analysis on Olbermann that I thought seemed plausible.  She said that the middle/working class has for years been disappointed by politicans who say they will help with the financial worries.  We wonder why so many Americans seem to vote against their economic self-interest.  Maddow's thought was they've been taught that it doesn't help their situation.  So they fall back on "values" voting, listening to politicians who say, "I will take care of those nameless, possibly groundless fears that you didn't know you had."  And they cling to that hope because they've lost the belief that their economic status will ever be better.  

    by cynmill on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:43:54 AM PDT

    • I think Rachel (0 / 0)

      was spot on.  Its exactly what I see.  I grew up in a small town, too.  And honestly, republicans have taken advantage of them, while democrats have largely abandoned them.  They don't expect anyone to really help them, so they often will vote based on what sounds  to many of us like ridiculous criteria...you know, as in voting for the guy you'd rather have a beer with.  

      I also think its an urban/rural thing.  If you live in a small Ohio town these days, you get your local news from the nearest "big city" news stations.  And yes...I suppose that's somewhat frightening.  The cities seem like scary places.  The idea that all different kinds of people can, and do, live together in a reasonable amount of harmony just does not transmit well across the evening newscast.  And what are these big cities full of?  Liberal democrats.  

      by tjb22 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:51:12 AM PDT

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    • I have a HUGE crush (0 / 0)

      on Rachel Maddow, like, a "one of my top five" that I wouldn't exactly wreck my home for, yeaaah... i luv her! It's a fairly new obsession.

      And I agree, her interpretation was essentially echoed by Obama himself (as I heard it on my Thom Hartmann podcast and found on youtube here, god bless the youtube.)

      by lilianna28 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:59:22 AM PDT

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      • this link is good too (0 / 0)

        youtube Obama

        by lilianna28 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:02:54 AM PDT

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      • Rachel and Barack (0 / 0)

        Yeah, it seems like Rachel summed up Barack's sentiment perfectly.

        I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around Ehrenreich's piece. She confirms Barack's sentiment as well, but seems to warn that the potentially damaging part wasn't the "bitter" or the "clinging" part, but rather the stereotypical examples he gave: religion, guns, and antipathy toward people who are different.

        What other things do people cling to when the government routinely neglects them? I guess, family and community connections, sports, hobbies...all the things Obama said. I'm agnostic but I cling to my awe of nature and the beauty of randomness. What examples could he have given to better make his case?

        by tarantula on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:42:48 PM PDT

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      • ditto.... (0 / 0)

        on the maddaw crush and her bitter analysis too.
        and it only sweetens the deal that joe scarborough walked off the set last night (sorry, he just "left before the last few minutes of the show" according to MSNBC) all because he couldn't handle rachel.   hee hee.  

        by slackermom on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:40:09 PM PDT

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  • DOES ANYONE ELSE NEED A DRINK TODAY??? (0 / 0)

    Seriously, that deserved caps. I am trying to print out and bind 10 copies of a presentation. They print 1 every HALF A FRICKING HOUR. I am going insane.

    I am trying to stay sane by listing the drinks that start with M (for Melissa). It's a good game.

    Mango Margarita
    Mimosa.
    Mud Slide
    Manhattan
    Martini.

    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    by lilianna28 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 10:02:35 AM PDT

  • moving to austin! (0 / 0)

    I got the job at UT, and we're moving in about a month. SCARY. I'm simultaneously thrilled and totally freaked out about the housing situation there... now we have to (1) sell the house (2) pack and drive to Austin in a UHaul (3) find a place to live (4) unpack and (5) immediately start big new job while (6) DH looks for a teaching job. Yeah, that's all within 2 weeks.

    if you wobba cypress trees then I will wobba you

    by thais on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:24:11 PM PDT

  • Canada (0 / 0)

    is set to ban bottles with bisphenol A in them. Good on them.

    by GiGi on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:27:17 PM PDT

  • Ha Ha! (0 / 0)

    This thread makes me happy.

    Be sure to check out the utube clips, too. Barack did a JayZ move, brushing the dirt off his shoulders (and shoe), putting the debate behind him.

    by tarantula on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:27:34 PM PDT

    • did you watch Colbert last night? (0 / 0)

      Clinton, Edwards AND Obama all made an appearance!

      I thought Edwards was funniest, followed by Obama, then Clinton.

      by Erika on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:31:49 PM PDT

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      • No, dangit! (0 / 0)

        No TV here (no reception and no desire to pay for cable).

        I'll go see if utube has it yet.

        by tarantula on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:39:22 PM PDT

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      • Edwards was great (0 / 0)

        Amazingly gutsy of him to take on Colbert's signature segment, The Word.  (Renamed the EdWørds, and I'm curious to see if the ø symbol is going to come through when I post this.)  It's a long segment and while he's a polished speaker he's not a professional comedian.  But I thought he really pulled it off.  Of course I'm an Edwards supporter from way back, so maybe I'm just biased.

        Obama was himself, which is never a bad thing to be.  But I was sad that Clinton's piece fell a little flat - she came across as stiff and forced.

        And I am SO bummed out that we stopped HBO - I really miss Real Time and I'd love to watch that panel!

        by lyn on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 02:55:21 PM PDT

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        • another Edwards supporter here (0 / 0)

          I thought he was light and charming -- a perfect combo.  He alternated well between serious (healthcare, poverty) and fluffy (Jetskis!).  And he took a lawyer joke gracefully.  Poor Hillary and Barack both seem so brittle these days, I'm not sure either one of them could do that quite as well at the moment.  

          I'll be happy with whichever Dem wins but that spot made me a little sad that we lost Edwards.

          by mamacita on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 09:50:35 PM PDT

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  • I've complained (0 / 0)

    about my sweet mil before (the sweet is not sarcastic--she's a good person), but I find myself ruminating still.

    She's so shameless about favoring my nephew, and I guess now that he has a brother, my nephews.

    I still hold a grudge against her for a long ago incident.  My sil was working and my mil offered (or, as my sil tells it, demanded) to watch my nephew once a week.  Soon, sil quit her job and I started my grad school practicum two days a week.  We hadn't asked my mil to watch Simone, but she started asking (nagging) us regularly about what we were going to do about childcare, because she wasn't going to do it!  She would not stop asking, although if she's not going to do it, it's none of her business what we do.

    Now I don't ask her to watch my kids unless it's an emergency, because if she says no I'll spiral back to my feelings about the original situation.  I've made it clear that there's an open door policy and she can see them whenever she wants.  Sil, obviously, is comfortable asking mil for help, so she sees them more as a result of that in addition to favortism.  When I do see her, I'm beyond irritated when she even mentions one of my nephews (and I love them, they are great kids and this has nothing to do with them).  It seems more appropriate that I should talk to mil about it, but what I want to do is have dh (who agrees with me) discuss it with his dad.  Am I still in middle school?

    by Erin on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 12:06:00 PM PDT

    • Good luck! (0 / 0)

      I had a problem with my MIL, too.  Every family member sympathized with me BUT none would say anything to her.  And, of course, when I did, it was ignored:  "No one ELSE has such a problem with me!"

      Good luck getting your husband or FIL to talk to her.  I hope you have more luck with them than I did with mine!

      Don't let it get out of control, though -- if it gets worse and worse, sooner or later it will hit a boiling point.  One (of several) reasons why her son and I divorced.  But mine simmered for 10 years before I really lashed out at her.

      by Shell on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 12:25:03 PM PDT

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    • Maybe (0 / 0)

      you should invite her over more often and ask her to babysit on a non=emergent occasion or two rather than just having an open door policy. If she's anything like the peeps in my family she needs to be specifically asked to come over. Perhaps if you spent more time with her the situation will resolve itself. If she says no to invitations then I would just suck it up and accept that she will never be who you need her to be and would try like mad not to take it personally. just my $.02...

      by GiGi on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:40:13 PM PDT

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      • I have them to dinner (0 / 0)

        periodically; we had them over just last week, I think.  Dd and I also brought her brownies and homemade gifts after her recent surgery.  But I think you're on to something with babysitting thing.  When she mentions that she was watching so and so nephew the other day, I think she's also saying "hey, you could call me if you need to, too."  Like I say, we're not dealing with monster-in-law here.  I just can't bring myself to do it except as a last resort.

        by Erin on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:40:30 PM PDT

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    • Being a daughter in law (0 / 0)

      I just think being a daughter in law is tough. In my situation, I'm the only DIL in the family. My MIL is great - no weirdness there, at least not specific to me :). But my sisters in law and the female cousins in the family? The only judgey gossip I've ever heard in the family is about another daughter in law. So of course I assume they talk about me as well. Dh's first wife? Woo boy ... she really had it rough with dh's family.

      I don't know, I just think that being a DIL sometimes means being ever so slightly - or more - on the outs in many families. Maybe like an interloper of some kind. A number of my friends are in the same boat. I don't know what to do about it though, I wish I did.

      RachelD

      by RachelD on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:26:32 PM PDT

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      • I'm lucky (0 / 0)

        I think, that dh doesn't have any sisters.  I've always thought a sil would be hard to have.

        The deal is, he's the oldest of three boys.  His middle brother had his son at 19 or 20 with a girl who just couldn't be a mother--I'd have as much success asking you to sprout wings and fly right now.  At the same time, the youngest brother was finishing high school, and mil basically bonded with nephew as her own, just as she should have been finishing raising her own children.  She had all the responsibility of a mother and I think all the emotion, but none of the autonomy.  His parents could take him or leave him and she had no say.  So I understand where my mil is coming from, but I've found that understand is one thing, sympathy can be quite another.  My in-laws even bought their new house a few blocks from my nephew, saying it was the only house they could find that fit their needs.  They fooled no one.

        When bil divorced his first wife, he married #2 pretty quickly.  She's great, but insisted on an abrupt transition for my nephew from mil to new mommy.  I think I could deal with all this, but what bothers me is that, having gotten his life together, bil is off the hook, and mil blames his first wife for everything.  But she couldn't have known any better, and he did.  So who's to blame?  

        Sorry for the novel.  It probably sounds stupid, but I could accept the situation a lot more easily if my mil would admit that all this happened because her SECOND SON SUCKS.  Which should be easy for her, because he seems to resent his mother more than he appreciates her.  I'm sick and tired of hearing about his first wife, although she was beyond the pale.  

        by Erin on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:14:54 PM PDT

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