Mother Talkers

Update: Freedom Airlines discriminated against nursing mom

by Erika

Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:14:49 AM PDT

Here's a quick update on Freedom Airlines and the misguided flight attendant who kicked a nursing mom and her toddler off a plane for refusing to cover up. I first posted about this case back in October 2006:

The Vermont Human Rights Commission found grounds to believe that Freedom Airlines, a subsidiary of Mesa Air Group, Inc., "violated Vermont's prohibition against discrimination against women breast feeding in places of public accommodation," said Commission Executive Director Robert Appel... /snip

The commission is not a court and its ruling is an administrative decision, Appel said. The commission will now work with the mother, Emily Gillette, and Freedom to try to negotiate a settlement. If that fails, a lawsuit could be filed by the commission or Gillette.   --Source

I'm glad to see Vermont standing behind their laws and sticking up for women who choose to nurse in public. This case received public scrutiny because moms held nurse-ins at Delta Airlines counters across the country; Delta operates flights in conjunction with, but does not own, Freedom Airlines.

Another bonus: this brouhaha caused Delta to make clear where the company stands:

"Delta fully supports a mother's right to breast-feed her children on board our aircraft," said Delta Spokesman Anthony Black.

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Tags: nursing, flying, Freedom Airlines, Vermont, discrimination (all tags)

Permalink | 19 comments

  • one more thought (0 / 0)

    with the way airlines have been folding lately, I am wondering if Freedom still exists, or will exist much longer.

    by Erika on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 08:20:56 AM PDT

  • Hmmm... (0 / 0)

    I'm glad that things look like they are heading in a better direction for the airlines, but it saddens me a little that it had to go this far.  

    Almost every nursing mom I know has had to deal with this in some way, shape, or form.  I was asked if I'd be more comfortable in a public restroom.  I replied, "No, I'm comfortable right here.  Would you be more comfortable eating your lunch in a bathroom stall at the mall?"  The lady got huffy and stomped off.  Whatever.

    let me get back to you on that.....

    by face121 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:13:45 AM PDT

    • You know, (0 / 0)

      in many ways, I think its getting worse.  I haven't nursed a baby for many, many years...but honestly, back in the 80's and early 90's, I breastfed everywhere, including in airports and on planes, and I never once had anyone make a negative remark.

      by tjb22 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:22:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I hate to think it, (0 / 0)

        You may be right, but I think there is more to it.  

        There are people on both sides of the public breastfeeding debate that do more to harm their cause than to help it.  I know a woman who intentionally did not attempt to be discreet in a public place, baring both of her breasts and not attempting to cover up at all while nursing her three month old daughter, of course she caused quite a stir.  
        Then you have people who harass breastfeeding moms that are barely even noticeable.  I was nursing my son at a restaurant, our waitress didn't even realize it, but once she did (she moved the blanket inadvertently and only saw the top of my son's head), and apologized for "intruding" (her word not mine) suddenly another patron was offended and felt the need to express their displeasure to us and the owner of the restaurant.  (The owner of the restaurant told the offended patron that she was free to leave if she wanted to.)  

        It's all part of the mommy wars.

        My sis has a my space page jam packed with "Put your boobs away" and "Proud mother of bottle fed babies" and the like.  She isn't really anti-breast feeding, she breast fed her oldest until a medical problem with the child ended it.  She gets put down a lot for not cloth diapering, not breastfeeding her second child, and for having to work, all by other moms who see their way as the only way.  I've been put down for breastfeeding, cloth diapering and staying home.  

        I think every family situation is unique, and every family makes choices based on their unique situation.  

        let me get back to you on that.....

        by face121 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:39:16 AM PDT

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        • Like everything else, (0 / 0)

          I think its become politicized to a ridiculous degree.  Motherhood has become politicized.  I guess the only thing I really believe is that somehow, somewhere, there are forces out there who are working diligently to keep us all bickering and divided.  

          by tjb22 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 09:53:07 AM PDT

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        • self-righteous crusaders (0 / 0)

          After I casually mentioned that my son was not breastfed, a stranger felt justified in unleashing a torrent of criticism.  There's no excuse for not breastfeeding, none.  There's always a way.  Good mothers take care about their children and take care of them properly.  Etc.  I said, no, you're wrong.  More sputtering, this time I think about lactation consultants and how I could have made more effort if I'd wanted to.  I finally gave her the evil eye and said, "My children are adopted, and you are way out of line.  A person like you has no business giving advice to anyone on anything." and walked off.  

          by lyn on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 10:28:59 AM PDT

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          • wow (0 / 0)

            I would have been tempted to just stand there and watch the stupid dripping off her face. :-)

            by Erika on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:47:29 AM PDT

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          • you know what I used to say (0 / 0)

            When people gave me the "you COULD Have if you REALLY wanted to you COULD have"  
            I would say.  You're supposing I REALLLLYYYYYY wanted to.  I REALLLYYYYYYY didn't and the day I stopped trying to do something that was making me AND Liza miserable was the day I really became a mom.

            That makes them IMPLODE they think every non breastfeeind mom is just all sorts of broken up about this and frankly I didn't give a damn.   I kind of love to drop that one on them.  The want to hear all the way s you TRIED and TRIED and of course FAILED so they can tell you how they DIDN't fail.  I could have cared less  . and THAT they never know what to do with.

            Of course now that Liza's nearly 9 it obviously never comes up.

            by MKatherine1966 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:32:28 PM PDT

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        • how sad (0 / 0)

          that your sister was so affected by the busybodies that she has made "anti-nursing" such a part of her identity. At least, that's what "Put your boobs away" sounds like to me.

          I'm a proud lactivist but never felt the need to broadcast it on my car bumper or my MySpace page. And I try very hard never to judge or harass anyone who chooses to bottle feed; instead, I try to offer encouragement and support to any nursing moms (or moms who plan to nurse) I come across, and let them know how much I enjoyed my nursing experience. I think as moms we should put as much good karma out there as possible, and condemn all the ugly, unwarranted crticism.

          by Erika on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:58:38 AM PDT

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          • I know and I agree with you! (0 / 0)

            It was almost as if not being able to nurse her daughter and facing so much criticism for it made her NOT want to breastfeed her son.  (The medical problems she faced were her daughter's and not her own.)  She was really devastated when she couldn't nurse her daughter.  I thought for sure she would try to nurse her son, but it was like she felt it would be unfair to her girl.  That almost does NOT make sense but I think you know what I mean.

            When I was in my obstetric rotation (nursing school), I had the opportunity to teach a young mom who wanted to nurse but was having difficulty.  The joy in her eyes (and the tears!) when her son latched on and really nursed.  I can't describe how it made me feel!  My instructor was standing outside the door, and when I walked out we were both in tears.

            let me get back to you on that.....

            by face121 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 09:44:17 AM PDT

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        • I think you are right that there is more to it. (0 / 0)

          There is the right to breastfeed in public, and then there is the right to breastfeed in public indiscreetly. I will fight the first battle to the end. The second battle ... well, I won't get into it.

          I spent a total of 27 months breastfeeding, often in public (and on airplanes), and I was never once hassled. I always made an effort to be discreet. I was well covered, and tried to face away from the flow of foot traffic. I am sure people realized I was nursing, but never once did anyone ever try to boot me off of plane or out of a restaurant or ask me to leave a public establishment. I would have been furious if they had, because I had made every effort to be discreet.

          The fact that this mother refused to "cover up" suggests to me that she was going beyond the basic right to feed her baby. I can't really get behind someone who doesn't perform the basic public courtesy of minimizing her exposure to the best of her ability.

          by trueblue illinois on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:12:11 PM PDT

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        • Weird (0 / 0)

          If I attempted to breastfeed uncovered I would be squirting everyone nearby with the nipple not in use.  Do you suppose the people who intentionally don't cover up are just exhibitionists?  That seems like aberrant behavior to me as most people I know will go to great lengths to be discreet.

          by music teacher on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:02:02 PM PDT

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          • I was responding to face121 (0 / 0)

            Her story about the woman nursing with both breasts uncovered prompted my comment.  I'm not sure what the story is with the woman on the plane.  My kids won't let me nurse with blankets over them but we do pretty well being discreet with nursing camis under normal shirts.

            by music teacher on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:05:24 PM PDT

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      • You are correct (0 / 0)

        I breast-fed my babies in the years 1981 - 1985 and I never had a problem.  People just ignored us.  When I wasn't feeding the babies, strangers would approach and want to look at them, talk baby-talk to them, etc.

        I tell you -- just like the reaction to gays -- things were much more relaxed -- in many ways -- before the right-wing crap started.

        It was a different country, in many ways.

        by Shell on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:03:27 PM PDT

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    • no criticism here, thank goodness (0 / 0)

      Never did a stranger have the gumption to say anything to me. But I think that's in part to the distinct "Don't f*uck with me" vibe that I've been told I give off. :-)

      The only ones who ever dared to raise an eyebrow were close family members (including my MIL) who started wondering why I chose to breastfeed so long. At this point, my daughter wasn't even a year old! They quickly got the picture that we would stop when we were damn well ready.

      "More comfortable" in a dirty, smelly public restroom? What nerve. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

      by Erika on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:50:34 AM PDT

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      • That reminds me (0 / 0)

        I said above -- and it is true -- no one ever said anything to me in a public place about breastfeeding.  At home, though, my MIL did, when they visited.  On behalf of my FIL, of course, who always left the room.  (He never said anything.)  And I never was show-offy, etc.  I covered up.  They couldn't possibly have seen anything unless they tried.

        I never got along with her anyway, so who cares?  And him?  Nice guy, but he had it right -- if HE was offended, HE should leave the room.  

        by Shell on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:12:52 PM PDT

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  • Where's the line (0 / 0)

    between full blown exhibitionism and trying to meet the needs of your baby?  It's blurry to be sure.  One persons slight breast exposure could be crossing the line for another person.  I'm recalling the woman who refused to cover up at Applebees... I remember her saying she wasn't exposed very much, and the waitstaff asked her to cover with a blanket.  Now THAT I have a problem with.  An inch or so breast should be no biggie.  I've seen that and more due to the cleavage level of some shirts.  

    It's a tough call, because we want to support a woman's right to breastfeed in public.  But, I can understand people's discomfort with those who basically aren't discreet at all.  

    I never had a problem during the years I breastfed my children in public.  I was pretty discreet, though I never put a blanket over my baby's head.  Not that there's anything wrong with that if that's what you want to do.  

    American Son ~ Wes Clark

    by 1plain1peanut on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 05:02:40 PM PDT

  • As you said .... (0 / 0)

    "I've seen that and more due to the cleavage level of some shirts. "

    And what about the beach?  Swimming suits/bikinis?  Thongs?  Are there any complaints there?  Or do only wild-and-crazy thong-wearers go to the beach?

    Not the beaches I'VE gone to!

    It seems some places are OK to show every inch of your breast, except the nipple (which shows through some suits anyway), and some aren't.  We all know where the rage comes from -- they object to a woman doing this when the purpose isn't turning on a man.  I have actually heard these ragers (usually females) scream that it isn't approprite because it "turns their husband on."  Now, as a female who breast-fed three babies, I can tell you, the last thing I had on my mind while breast-feeding was sex.

    by Shell on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 07:30:10 PM PDT

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