Mother Talkers

Did You "Settle"?

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:32:34 AM PDT

Wow...This conjured mixed feelings but I thought that this would be an interesting read. (Long-but well worth it.)

The author seems to be making a case for settling for a man who is "good enough" - while you are young and still actually appealing to men.

I bolded the more "interesting" statements...

Yikes!

The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

by Lori Gottlieb

Marry Him!

About six months after my son was born, he and I were sitting on a blanket at the park with a close friend and her daughter. It was a sunny summer weekend, and other parents and their kids picnicked nearby--mothers munching berries and lounging on the grass, fathers tossing balls with their giddy toddlers. My friend and I, who, in fits of self-empowerment, had conceived our babies with donor sperm because we hadn't met Mr. Right yet, surveyed the idyllic scene.

Also see:
Interview: "The Case for Mr. Not-Quite Right"
Lori Gottlieb talks about soul mates, all-consuming love, and why it makes sense to compromise those ideals.

"Ah, this is the dream," I said, and we nodded in silence for a minute, then burst out laughing. In some ways, I meant it: we'd both dreamed of motherhood, and here we were, picnicking in the park with our children. But it was also decidedly not the dream. The dream, like that of our mothers and their mothers from time immemorial, was to fall in love, get married, and live happily ever after. Of course, we'd be loath to admit it in this day and age, but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won't tell you it's a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she'll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child).

To the outside world, of course, we still call ourselves feminists and insist--vehemently, even--that we're independent and self-sufficient and don't believe in any of that damsel-in-distress stuff, but in reality, we aren't fish who can do without a bicycle, we're women who want a traditional family. And despite growing up in an era when the centuries-old mantra to get married young was finally (and, it seemed, refreshingly) replaced by encouragement to postpone that milestone in pursuit of high ideals (education! career! but also true love!), every woman I know--no matter how successful and ambitious, how financially and emotionally secure--feels panic, occasionally coupled with desperation, if she hits 30 and finds herself unmarried.

Oh, I know--I'm guessing there are single 30-year-old women reading this right now who will be writing letters to the editor to say that the women I know aren't widely representative, that I've been co-opted by the cult of the feminist backlash, and basically, that I have no idea what I'm talking about. And all I can say is, if you say you're not worried, either you're in denial or you're lying. In fact, take a good look in the mirror and try to convince yourself that you're not worried, because you'll see how silly your face looks when you're being disingenuous.

click here for the rest of the article: http://rss.msnbc.msn.com/...

Poll

Married Women-Come Clean

60%34 votes
35%20 votes
3%2 votes

| 56 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Settling, Marriage, single, motherhood (all tags)

Permalink | 230 comments

  • Sue in Queens (0 / 0)

    postedon this in February so you may want to take a peek at the comments on that thread...

    I married by DH so he could get a green card but I was also (and am still) madly in love with him - just not so much with the institution of marriage.

  • I married at 26 (0 / 0)

    so I'm not sure I can fully relate to the predicament she describes.  However ...

    In general, with essays like this attempting to give advice on such a deeply personal matter, I just feel sort of perplexed.  What is the point of giving advice like this?  Some people will be comfortable with the idea of "settling," others will disagree and want to hold out for the ideal.  People are different, and that's ok.  Why should everybody follow the same line?

    This analogy is something of a stretch, but it's similar to how I feel about banning doctor assisted suicide.  How could we possibly tell someone else they have to live if they are in severe pain?  It's such a personal thing.  Some things seem to me to be fundamentally up to the individual, and things like marriage and death would fall into that category.

    By the way, the amount of the essay you reproduced here may be beyond the "fair use" copyright law.

    • Um-stick to the topic, thanks. (0 / 0)

      I disagree. The following was posted right at the top. This is clearly identified as Gottlieb's article--->

      The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

      by Lori Gottlieb

      Marry Him!

      This was posted as well:

      Also see:
      Interview: "The Case for Mr. Not-Quite Right"
      Lori Gottlieb talks about soul mates, all-consuming love, and why it makes sense to compromise those ideals.

      • Fair use isn't about credit... (0 / 0)

        Atlantic Monthly and the author are protected so that they receive compensation for their efforts of writing and publishing. You need permission to publish the article in whole.

      • Fair use (0 / 0)

        copyright law link

        The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: "quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author's observations..."

        Citing the author or publication is not enough under copyright law to reproduce the whole thing.  The owners of the website can be held legally liable for copyright infringement if it's violated, I believe.

      • I respect katherine greatly as a poster and (0 / 0)

        I think her intentions were simply to give you a heads up you may have posted more content than might be allowable under copyright laws etc.   She did it nicely and respectfully repeatedly, she deserves the same in return.

        • Agreed! (0 / 0)

          and since most writers are not rolling on the dough, they understandably take copyright laws quite seriously, as it is their livelihood.

          I appreciate Katherine trying to keep us all on the right track -- oh, and I agree with her comments, too.

        • I am Not Sure What You're Getting At (0 / 0)

          Perhaps you can elaborate or demonstrate just who is being disrespectful to Katherine.

          • I think that you could have addressed her (0 / 0)

            a bit nicer the "gee thanks" and the "we better do something asap" really weren't necessary. She didn't take your thread off topic, she simply added a "by the way" point about copyright issues.

            i'm the queen of sarcasm and cynicism but I try not to let that affect the way in which I address the posters here who are wonderful at debate and spirited discussion without disrespect or attitude which is why I love coming here more than any other message board or blog site I belong to.  

            • Wow-LOL! (0 / 0)

              Thanks for sharing your thoughts, but - I rarely use the word "gee", and I am not going to consult you or request your opinion before I respond to anything on this site.

              • Fine I was trying to be polite (0 / 0)

                if you want me to haul out the snark and the sarcasm just say the word because frankly you wouldn't stand a chance...

                • HUGE difference (0 / 0)

                  between your snark and sarcasm, Katie, and Uhura's rudeness. This is not the first time she's been called out for being a bit over the top in her replies.

                  • Sure There Is (0 / 0)

                    The difference is that you are familiar with and like Katie.

                    If I am being rude here, so. is. she.
                    ANd-so is everyone else who decided to swoop in and take a swipe.

                    Human nature being what it is-I can't believe that such intelligent women would expect someone to say nothing while being confronted with so many ahem opposing voices.

                • Bring It On Chaka Khan (0 / 0)

                  Aren't you being rude here too?

                  I think that you should lead by example....if you have the moral aptitude to do so.

                  • I will certainly take your (0 / 0)

                    opinion on how you think I should "lead by example" and give it all careful consideration I think it deserves...

                    • Great! (0 / 0)

                      The problem here is that many folks weren't expecting me to defend my position and defend it well... with a hearty mix of sarcasm and humor. One thing that will not happen-is me simply shutting up.

                      Nope.

                      By the way...On the Internet, if you don't like what someone has to say-you have quite a few options.

                      • Perhaps you can take your own advice (0 / 0)

                        if you don't like what someone has to say-you have quite a few options.

                        You seem to think that because you aren't cursing or yelling that your level of discourse is appropriate. Well, it's not. That several people have tried to 'discuss' it with you here and on a previous thread and you just don't get it is telling.  More telling, however, is that no one else has agreed with your standpoint so it may be time to ask yourself if this is indeed the right blog for you.

                        Rude is as rude does.

                        • Irrelevent (0 / 0)

                          Having bandwagoneers or co-signers does not give more weight to any particular point of view.

                          You have just committed a fallacy of logic called: Argumentum ad numerum

                          • Argumentum ad numerum (0 / 0)

                            Definition:

                            It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct.

                            Right. Well, in this community co-signers are important. Gloria, Erika, and Elisa have created a space for us to talk about issues and engage in friendly, healthy dialogue. If you would settle down and stop being so defensive with your inflammatory, knee jerk responses perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to call you out.

                            Note to self: stop feeding the troll!

                            • Finally! (0 / 0)

                              I was wondering when someone would bring out the "t" word.

                              I would have no reason to defend my position if people would settle down and just take things for what they are: OP IN IONS.

                              You are not going to beat me into consensus or submission. That should be crystal clear at this point.

                              • why would you (0 / 0)

                                want to post here if you believe that the posters here wanted to "beat" you "into consensus or submission"?

                                • That's an Easy One (0 / 0)

                                  The folks that DON'T attempt to do that make it worthwhile.

                                  • but uhura (0 / 0)

                                    I don't think you can assume that most of us side with you.  Lots of people are just nonconfrontational.  I suspect, though of course I can't know, that many if not most of us nonresponders probably agree with the ones you think are attacking you.

                                    Honestly, it makes me not want to engage with you on interesting topics.  I have no way of knowing when you might misinterpret my response and turn on me.  I'm actually pretty confrontational by nature and love a good heated debate, but I'm baffled by your responses.

                                    OK, go ahead . . .

                                    • Hallucinogens Anyone? (0 / 0)

                                      Can you please point out where I stated or even alluded to anyone here agreeing with me???

                                      How can anyone's position on any given topic be known if they do not comment?

                                    • Thanks Lyn (0 / 0)

                                      My silence in this argument does not mean that I agree with you Uhuru. I actually think you are being very rude and I don't understand why you took offense in the first place. Katherine was right about not reproducing articles in their entirety. So big deal. Why can't you just roll with it?

                                      And by the way, the idea that you are being ganged up on is very manipulative. You came out swinging in a context in which no one was looking for a fight and then claimed that you were the one getting beat up on. Give me a break.

                      • we have options too. (0 / 0)

                        Think of this site as an open house party. Elisa, Gloria and I are the hostesses. It is our responsibility to make sure that everyone has a good time, and we do that by fostering interesting, congenial and respectful discussion and debate.

                        If one of our "guests" starts making our others guests feel uncomfortable, we reserve the right to boot that guest. Call it a "bandwagon" or a "ganging up" if you'd like, but the truth is, this is a peaceful, tolerant community 99 percent of the time, and we'll do what ittakes to keep it that way.

                        I will ask you again, with all respect, to please tone it down.  

                        • Clarify (0 / 0)

                          Tone it down does not provide any specific instructions as to the parameters of acceptable forum behavior.

                          You need to be more clear.

                          Please tell me exactly what part of this thread was offensive. For example, some forums have strict rules about profanity, posting pornigraphic pictures, etc.

                          Or-If you are simply backing up the skewed opinions of the resident posters, then say so.

                          • The clarification of "toning it down" (0 / 0)

                            is just to be respectful of everyone here. We're not asking you to "conform" or to jump on any "band wagon". If everyone did that, this would be a very boring site. We are different women with different personalities and different points of view. Yet when we disagree, we still manage to keep it cordial and respectful.

                            We ask you to do the same.

                            • Once More (0 / 0)

                              Are you clarifying what Erica said? I asked her some very specific questions:

                              Please tell me exactly what part of this thread was offensive. For example, some forums have strict rules about profanity, posting pornigraphic pictures, etc.

                              • Several people have pointed out repeatedly (0 / 0)

                                exactly what you posted that was rude and abrasive.

                                This isn't a first grade classroom, we won't be posting any rules of behavior.

                                If you can't see how you have been disruptive or why so many readers have reacted negatively to your posts, then this probably isn't the blog for you.

                                • Yep. (0 / 0)

                                  That's about what I expected.

                                  A vague response and not admitting that you're just going along to get along with your veteran posters.

                                  • I don't think that's true (0 / 0)

                                    every one of us was new at one point in time, I'm still a relative newcomer.... we've had several new posters recently who are great and welcome additions. you can be sure that even if  'veteran' was dimissive and rude to another poster he or she woudl be called on the carpet for it as well.

                                  • I probably shouldn't say anything (0 / 0)

                                    I know I should stay out of this (and I have no doubt that you will invite me to do just that!), but I'll admit that, yes, I would probably have more patience with a veteran poster than with a newer one.  Because if a veteran poster all of a sudden developed the level of nastiness that you are displaying, I would wonder what was wrong, what had changed.  So it would make me react with concern rather than hostility.  That person would probably not be a veteran poster if they had behaved like you all along--they would have been banned early on.  

                                    I will not speak for anyone but myself, but I feel invested in maintaining a level of civility here.  So I'm speaking up, not because I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but because I care about this community.

                                    • Oh Yes You Should... (0 / 0)

                                      You should say whatever you like-at least ...as far as I am concerned. (Unlike some folks-I will not speak for anyone else either.) Just be prepped to receive my response.

                                      My writing style is different than most
                                      and it's not intended to cause harm.

                                      At this point, we should have all figured out that I will respond to certain comments in my own way.

                                      --------------
                                      Here's a hint for anyone still interested in continuing this part of the discussion: People don't become less defensive when multiple repeatedly people pile on top of them.

                                      It  makes absolutely no sense to have this expectation.

                      • expectations (0 / 0)

                        The problem here is that many folks weren't expecting me to defend my position and defend it well... with a hearty mix of sarcasm and humor.

                        Fair enough.  Based on your comments so far it does seem like an unreasonable expectation.  

                        And with that I will bid adios to anyone else still watching this pissing contest.  By nature I can be both argumentative and snarky which tends to get me drawn into this sort of thing.  But unlike Uhura, I do know better, so it's time to walk away.  

      • You posted a diary (0 / 0)

        you have no control over the direction it takes.  

        • And...By the Same Token (0 / 0)

          YOU have no control over my reaction to the direction it takes.

          • Can't we all (0 / 0)

            just get along?

            • Obviously Not (0 / 0)

              No-clearly-we can't because there are certain types of personalities who feel the need to control how others choose to express themselves.

              • well (0 / 0)

                you are the one who said "um...stick to the topic, thanks"

                • Yes-I Did (0 / 0)

                  What's your point?

                  I can say what I like including telling someone to stick to the topic.

                  • There's really no need to be combative (0 / 0)

                    no one has been disrespectful to you, people have responded to your diary topic, the conversation is interesting. Conversations here often take  a life of their own but that's often what makes them the most interesting.  There's not much here to argue except someone nicely pointed out you may want to consider copyright infringment issues in future posts.

                  • My point is (0 / 0)

                    that you seemed to be the first person who felt "the need to control how others choose to express theemselves."

                    Like Katie, I like MT because there is usually spirited discussion in a respectful way. That has not been the case in this diary.

                    • Talk to the Hand (0 / 0)

                      Several people have decided to gang up on one person.

                      I think that this, more than anything else, has given this diary and air of negativity.

                      Of course, the e-gangwagoneers don't see it that way...

                      C'est la vie.

                      • Huh? (0 / 0)

                        Talk to the hand?  Is that necessary?

                        Obviously, you haven't been around here long, which is totally cool, but if you were, you would know that Lisa in Austin is not only one of the most interesting posters, but probably one of the nicest, most respectful posters on this board.  

                        No one ganged up on you.  This all started when Katherine first replied to your diary, with a serious reply that offered lots to think about, which is nothing but complimentary to a diary writer.  She then added that you may have added a bit much of the original text (i.e. just copying and pasting the whole article). In no way was she ever snotty to you as she wrote it either.

                        And then, well, your replies spiraled down from there, resulting in "Talk to the Hand."

                        Sure, there are passionate flare-ups on here once in a while, let's hope they are least people discussing or disagreeing on content, rather than just spiraling down into personal insults.

                        • Necessary AND Appropriate (0 / 0)

                          What is unneccessary (and laughable) is you retelling the tale of what happened in this thread as if I were not actually present.

                          Here's some info for you:


                          Definitions of 'gang up' (găng)- The American Heritage® Dictionary

                          gang up (p.v.) To join together in opposition or attack: The older children were always ganging up on the little ones.

                          What did you say again?

                          • refresher (0 / 0)

                            You seemed to be in need of a reality check on what actually happened in this trainwreck of a thread.

                            • Produce It (0 / 0)

                              Posthaste.

                              • I did (0 / 0)

                                I did.  See my post above.

                                Your post to me, BTW, "Produce It Post Haste."  Beyond rude.  I hope you don't talk to people like that in real life.

                                • Oh Brother (0 / 0)

                                  So, now you're "offended" by Produce It Post Haste...which means nothing more than Show me ASAP?

                                  You can't safely surf the web with such sensitive skin.

                                  • how about oh you know (0 / 0)

                                    phrases like  please or a thank you or a if you have the time, or would you mind, or I'd like more information on that, or what is your data to support that?    Do you really say things to people in your daily life like "produce it poste haste" ?   Does that get you very far?

                                    • E-Communication versus Communication IRL (0 / 0)

                                      E-communication and communication IRL are different.

                                      Should I elaborate?

                                      • I think that's a cop out (0 / 0)

                                        e-communication SHOULD include basic manners, respect,and politeness.  There are a several professional writers on this site and many more of us who write for a living as part of our jobs and I don't buy this argument that 'it's different on the net'.  You can make your point, you can argue, laugh, debate, kid, support, agree, disagree and encourage without resorting to phrases you'd never use with people in your real life.  You need a more compelling argument than  that.

                                        • You're Entitled to Your Thoughts But Please Note: (0 / 0)

                                          Online communication is indeed different that communication IRL:

                                          With communication IRL-we have visual cues such as body language which actually make up the bulk of what is received.

                                          With e-communication, we don't have that. All we have is "the words" and possibly pics - venue permitting.

                                          That being said, the rules for politeness have not been universally agreed upon, and you can't bludgeon anyone into accepting your definition without becoming impolite yourself. As you become more and more emotionally invested in making the other person realize they're wrong, you're argument becomes less and less logical (and therefore less and less compelling.)

                                          Ya feel me?

                                          • communication (0 / 0)

                                            You make a good point, online communication is different than real life.  

                                            I would say that while online, we need to be more careful how we talk to each other, as we don't have the visual cues, the personal histories, and tone of voice to put what people say into proper context.

                                            I would also bet, and I'm sure people have already studied this, that many perfectly normal and kind people, while on the internet, can act poorly.

                                          • True as far as it goes, (0 / 0)

                                            but you seem to be making the mistake of believing that just because online communication is different, it's got reasonably universal standards across the board. That's not the case. The level of discourse varies, as does the tone, depending on where you happen to comment. And in a lot of ways, this makes things harder - if you say something inappropriate in person, you can usually tell pretty quickly through body language if you're offending someone. Online, that's far harder. The only way, really, to get a feel for what's appropriate and where people are coming from on a forum is to stick around for a while: it takes time, because you don't have those other cues to rely on. While I've been on plenty of forums where your comments would be reasonable and taken in good humour, here they come across as needlessly abrasive and aggressive. I'm sure that wasn't intentional on your part, but in this context I think you need to tread a little bit more carefully and choose your words with more care.

                                            That being said, the rules for politeness have not been universally agreed upon, and you can't bludgeon anyone into accepting your definition without becoming impolite yourself.

                                            Not really. Most forums have their own standards, that people understand simply from having been around for a while. There's no universal standard across the internet, but there is a Mothertalkers standard, just as there's a Street Prophets standard, a Daily Kos standard and, I'd guess, a Red State standard. And they're all different. If you step outside that norm, I think it's to be expected that someone will let you know. if you continue to do so, lots of people will let you know. That's what's happened here. It's not ganging up - sometimes when there are a lot of people telling you the same thing, it really is because they've got a point.

                                            "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

                                            by Expat Briton on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 09:16:12 AM PDT

                                            [ Parent ]

                                            • excellent (0 / 0)

                                              Excellent analysis Expat.  There are different standards on different blogs.  I only post comments here, so my view was limited to that.  Thanks.

                                            • I Hope You're Not Speaking to ME (0 / 0)

                                              Because if so-you are confused.

                                              You stated that I

                                              have made the mistake of believing that just because online communication is different, it's got reasonably universal standards across the board

                                              First-the first part of your statement has absolutely nothing to do with the second part of it.

                                              Second-I am the person who stated that the rules for politeness have not been universally agreed upon...

                                              The saddest part is that someone else actually called what you did here an

                                              analysis

                                              and then had the unmitigated gall to high-five you.

                                              • by your own standards (0 / 0)

                                                of what is acceptable in on line communication I hardly think that a 'great post" post constitutes "unimitigated gall".   Frankly I've always wondered what MITIGATED Gall was like myself...

                                                and i believe you THINK this attitude gets you far in real life.. I know alot of people who think that that kind of attitude is what 'gets them places"  so more power to you and party on Wayne

                                              • wrote (0 / 0)

                                                To Uhura,

                                                I wrote this, to you:

                                                I would say that while online, we need to be more careful how we talk to each other, as we don't have the visual cues, the personal histories, and tone of voice to put what people say into proper context.

                                                Expat wrote this, and yes, I believe it was in reply to you..

                                                Most forums have their own standards, that people understand simply from having been around for a while. There's no universal standard across the internet, but there is a Mothertalkers standard, just as there's a Street Prophets standard, a Daily Kos standard and, I'd guess, a Red State standard. And they're all different. If you step outside that norm, I think it's to be expected that someone will let you know. if you continue to do so, lots of people will let you know. That's what's happened here. It's not ganging up - sometimes when there are a lot of people telling you the same thing, it really is because they've got a point.

                                                And I wrote, in reply to his comment:

                                                Excellent analysis Expat.  There are different standards on different blogs.  I only post comments here, so my view was limited to that.  Thanks.

                                                I don't post comments anywhere else on the internet other than here, so some level of common courtesy is what I am used to, regardless of how heated the conversation gets.  I was thanking Expat for making me realize how my comment (see above) may not be applicable in all places and how, overall, I think his take on this entire situation was right on.

                                              • I take this back. (0 / 0)

                                                I've been on plenty of forums where your comments would be reasonable and taken in good humour, here they come across as needlessly abrasive and aggressive. I'm sure that wasn't intentional on your part,

                                                I was wrong. You're just an ass.

                                                "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

                                                by Expat Briton on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:55:22 PM PDT

                                                [ Parent ]

                                                • NOW - Who is being rude? (0 / 0)

                                                  You do realize that you throw up the white flag while laying flat on your back with your legs in the air when you employ name-calling right?

                                                  • You know, you're right. (0 / 0)

                                                    Inasfar as that was needlessly rude. My apologies. The personal insult was out of line.

                                                    The rest.. I'm kind of forced to conclude that you're deliberately being argumentative for the sake of it, because I simply don't believe that you don't see what you're doing here. Hope other threads remain more constructive.

                                                    "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

                                                    by Expat Briton on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 08:57:49 AM PDT

                                                    [ Parent ]

                                                • I'll high five that. (0 / 0)

                                                  Thanks Expat Briton. I always look forward to your comments, but his one takes the cake.

                                          • I don't agree (0 / 0)

                                            that politeness isn't universally agreed upon. there are basic standards of respect and politeness that should be accorded to all people.  

                                            no I don't really feel you, sorry.

                                            and I'm not trying to make anyone realize they're 'wrong" that's not my MO in real life or on these boards...I'm trying to offer a different perspective for consideration.

                                    • You'd Be Appalled (0 / 0)

                                      at how far I actually get ....

                                  • visit (0 / 0)

                                    I definitely don't visit any boards where people talk to other people like you do, that is for sure.

                                    BTW, "Show me ASAP" is rude also.

                                    And my above comment stands.  I seriously hope that you don't talk to people in real life like this.

                        • nice one (0 / 0)

                          NJMom.

                          Uhura, take a step back. No one is ganging up on you because no one "opposes" you as such. Katherine reminded you of fair use policies. The rest of us are saying, look, don't say things like "talk to the hand." None of us are saying we don't like you or that we're trying to drum your opinion down.

                      • The ONLY (0 / 0)

                        thing that gives this diary an air of negativity is YOUR comments.

                        I don't comment too frequently, but I do browse most of the site, and I will say that this is not the first (and I'm sure it won't be the last) time I have read something from you that is rude and disrespectful.

                        MT's is a wonderful place and it would be great if you could maintain what Elisa, Erika and Gloria have created.

                        I for one, refuse to acknowledge any more comments from you... that is the beauty of the internet... Uhura who?

      • Uhura (0 / 0)

        I read the whole thread, and came up to your first comment to respond.  

        1. Katherine wasn't attacking you in her response to your diary...just pointing out some copyright law as a refresher, so you don't get MT in trouble.
        1. While you may not intend to sound snippy, some of your responses come off as very abrasive, not laced with humor and sarcasm.  No, we can't make you be more polite, but we can ask you to be more considerate of posters' feelings.
        1. That your responses sound rude to a great many of us doesn't make them rude, but it does make it understandable that we'd speak up.  This does not in any way mean we are ganging up on you.

        All those things said, it is an interesting article, thank you.

    • Gosh (0 / 0)

      I apologize for inadvertently starting a thread war!