Mother Talkers

Abby, Schmabby

by Erin

Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 10:55:51 AM PDT

Interesting dilemma. I have never heard of someone complain they were making too much money! It is bizarre. -Elisa

I almost choked on my coffee while reading Abby's simpler than simplistic advice to a reader this morning.  A woman wrote in complaining that she loves her job but is thinking of quitting or asking for a pay cut.    As she explains it

My job is mostly simple work that could be done by anybody -- yet I earn almost as much as my husband, who is a supervisor in a technical field.

Abby's advice?  

Feeling as you do, you should donate every cent you feel you are overpaid to a charity (or to a therapist who can help you overcome your sense of guilt).

While Abby briefly mentions the idea of therapy (which I missed in my original reading because I was so dumbfounded) it is completely glossed over.  Why does this woman think she isn't worth what she is paid?  Also, is the real issue that she's afraid of making as much or more than her husband?  

It's hard to argue with the idea of donating earnings that exceed the family's needs to charity.  However, I believe that this is a decision that should be based on consuming less and giving more and not this woman's guilt about making too much money.  

I'm no fan, but I wondered with interest what Linda Hirshman would say.  What do you say?  Am I just being materialistic here, or does this woman appear to have a problem recognizing her own self-worth?

Tags: Dear Abby, money, guilt (all tags)

Permalink | 40 comments

  • Hey, I read this too.... (0 / 0)

    ....while drinking my coffee and thought the same exact thing.

    I wondered what is going on with her husband if she is afraid to make more money than him.

    by janetle on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:09:27 AM PDT

  • Wow (0 / 0)

    Odd.  I agree, something to do with making as much as her husband or something.

    by NJmom on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:17:25 AM PDT

  • Difficult to say.. (0 / 0)

    ..without knowing what she does, or what she earns. I guess it's perfectly possible that she really does earn far more than the "market rate" for the position she holds, and I can imagine feeling a pang of guilt about that. It's also possible she mentions her husband simply as a yardstick - he's in what is a high paid position, she's in a position that wouldn't normally be high paid, yet they earn almost the same, isn't that odd? I mean, it's possible that this is just her speaking the truth, and using an easily available measuring stick.
    Or he's underpaid. Or she has esteem issues. Or any number of other things. I'm not sure it's really possible to know from such a short letter.
    I definitely think it's possible to feel overpaid, though. I wouldn't discount that straight out the gate.

    "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

    by Expat Briton on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:23:15 AM PDT

  • I just want to say (0 / 0)

    She could also go ahead and keep the job and send me however much it is she feels she is overpaid.

    Just another option Abby didn't mention.

    by Lisa in Austin on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:49:50 AM PDT

  • get the therapy (0 / 0)

    she needs to find out what job she would love so much that she'd do it for free.  even though she says she "loves her job", what does she love about it?  that it gets her out of the house?  that although simple, she works with intersting people? would she doe this job for free, she loves it so much?  does she feel alive whenever she walks into the place?  I'm thinking it's not actually the "work" that she loves so much (so simple anyone could do it), but the other outlets it provides her.
    maybe that's what she feels guilty about; making money for something that she is not passionate about and the only barometer she had to express that in was her husband's salary.  She needs to find something to do that she is passionate about and then the money thing will take care of itself.
    just my $.02
    peace

    "The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution." Paul Cezanne

    by educonfidential on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:51:10 AM PDT

    • definitely think she could use therapy (0 / 0)

      the money is just a symptom; getting at why she feels the guilt is the real problem!

      by Rachel on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:27:14 PM PDT

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    • Find what she would do for free (0 / 0)

      sure, but don't actually do it for free!  At least not as long as she's working for someone else.

      That could be the problem though--she can't put her whole self into the job and so she feels guilty about the recognition she receives.

      by Erin on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:31:16 PM PDT

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  • Horrendously overpaid (0 / 0)

    at the last job I had, for the work they had me doing. It was embarrassing and difficult to reconcile, and while I wouldn't have written to Abby about it, I did feel a lot of guilt. But I also knew that I would have stayed there regardless of happiness had they kept paying me to do nothing.

    My $.03 :)

    by lilianna28 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:02:08 PM PDT

  • I would love (0 / 0)

    to have that problem.  
    We are signing the bankruptcy papers next Tuesday.  Yee-ha.

    by lonespark on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:18:15 PM PDT

    • That sucks (0 / 0)

      It sucked when we had to consider it before we knew what DH's insurance would pay for DS's hospital stay.  It sucks that we're thinking about it now that we've realized we're in a house we can't afford (and don't particularly like).  Maybe that's more of a foreclosure problem. But it must suck way more to be doing it.  But just so you know, when I win the lottery, I'll grossly overpay you for a job that anyone could do!

      by cynmill on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:32:17 PM PDT

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    • sorry to hear this lonespark (0 / 0)

      must be a stressful time for you. are you managing alright?

      by Stacey on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:38:39 PM PDT

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      • Hmmm, well (0 / 0)

        It will stop being stressful when we sign.  Now they are hounding us for documents.  

        But after that, things will look up.  DH graduates in May, and he already has a good job.  A job that means will be stuck in the devil's fiery armpit (Phoenix, AZ), but it's progress.  

        I am in mourning for the house in Indiana, though.  We can't get tenants because of the mold problems that we can't afford to fix, so having it taken away will be a good thing.  But it was such a lovely place and we put a lot of work into it.

        by lonespark on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 02:43:25 PM PDT

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  • I must be materialistic (0 / 0)

    because I would have no problem being outrageously overpaid.  If I felt I was still being professional, responsible, and hard-working, I'd figure: why not.  If that's what the company wants to pay for that position, and my contribution to it, who am I to question that. I'd also think that, in the grand scheme of things, it probably balances out when I was dirt poor in school, or underpaid at other jobs.  My bet is it has something to do with the husband.

    by cynmill on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:28:28 PM PDT

    • Exactly-- (0 / 0)

      isn't that capitalism at work? We ahve to endure its crappy side effects, why can't we reap its benefits, too?

      by minnmom on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:14:31 PM PDT

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    • I think (0 / 0)

      that's part of why this hit me.  It's sort of the opposite of my own experience.  I'm a SAHM now, mostly because I never made shit!  Before I had kids I worked for Head Start.  I loved it and at the time I wanted to retire from there, but I know I would resent leaving my own child to worry about others.  Mostly because if I was relying on my own income Simone would have qualified for Head Start.

      The attitude that doing meaningful work should be more satisfying than getting paid well is so condescending to me.  That pie in the sky argument is crap as far as I'm concerned.  The truth is, people work to make money.  No matter what you're doing, at the core of it you are selling your time.  As minnmom says, why not benefit from the good side of capitalism?  Under this system, our time is worth, yes, money.

      by Erin on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:00:28 PM PDT

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      • Yeah, condescending (0 / 0)

        It's that pie in the sky argument that has legions of psychology and mft interns in the Bay Area working for free. Most people work for free for at least a year, often two. Sometimes three. Or for a ridiculous pittance. People with master's and phds. Where's the unconditional positive (self) regard ;)?

        That's why I'm  home now, too. All the reasons you just said. It's discouraging.

        RachelD

        by RachelD on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 07:23:22 AM PDT

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        • The only (0 / 0)

          outside the home work I've done since Simone was born has been my year long free internship.  It's a racket.  Many of my grad school professors taught us to be wary of the selling ourselves short.

          by Erin on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 08:03:55 AM PDT

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        • Now that I think about it (0 / 0)

          does that mean you had to give up the licensure hours you had already earned?

          by Erin on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:31:36 AM PDT

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          • I'm on a clock (0 / 0)

            We have a six year clock. MIne expires in Summer 2010, and at that time I'll have to start giving up hours. For every month I go over my deadline, they peel the hours month by month from the beginning. And I would no longer be eligible for private practice internship, just to rub salt in the wound.

            Total racket. Our professors tried to be supportive also, but I don't understand  how they can't see how the big majority of jobs are unpaid and part time (just dragging the process out). I have about a year, 18 months to go, so I do have to make decisions pretty soon. I'm still seriously considering chucking it.

            Blech.

            Are you almost done?

            by RachelD on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 12:22:17 PM PDT

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            • That's awful (0 / 0)

              What will you do if you chuck it?

              I'm done with school and the student loans will be rolling in soon.  I don't have a job and if I'm honest I don't want one.  I think my confidence is really shaken, but I wonder if I even have a passion for this anymore?  The whole school thing is feeling like it was a big mistake.  I want to be a book critic or a travel writer now.  I'm 31 years old and don't know what I want to be when I grow up.  I think soon I'll look for something part time in dv, even though dv makes me physically ill.  I would very much like to see domestic violence and poverty eradicated, so I'll try to do my part.

              by Erin on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:08:41 PM PDT

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              • It's a big dilemma (0 / 0)

                Oh, Erin, there has got to be something you could do around dv and poverty without doing the actual clinical work. It sounds like it would really affect you, and I totally hear you on that. When I interviewed last year, I specifically told the supervisor that I won't work with antisocial people - and that includes dv.

                I think there's a reason why there aren't that many therapists with young children. I've known a lot pre-kids, and I've known a lot without kids, and adult kids. Even school age kids. Babies and preschoolers? Not so much. I could not have anticipated how my feelings about the work would change. It started when I was pregnant actually. I left an internship in a dangerous neighborhood when I got big enough to show. I felt vulnerable walking on the sidewalk, and also didn't want to muster up any emotional strength to cope with the anxiety. That internship definitely shook up my confidence about doing the work.

                Maybe you could write on dv and poverty, occasional features for a local paper, or similar. A short documentary? I have had that feeling, too, of I hope I can figure out what to do with this expensive degree and difficult experience. I honestly believe that there is a lot we can do with our training, we just have to find it. I am considering a book about my pet project from my training, and also the parenting mag we've talked about here.

                I really wish we could have a career support group about this stuff with all of our new parent colleagues!

                by RachelD on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 06:49:27 AM PDT

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                • dv and abuse (0 / 0)

                  every time I've heard the worst thing ever, somebody tops it.  The things people go through every day are horrific.  I'm often so impressed by the way people survive and cope.  I remember one day at the beginning of my internship, I was hearing so many awful things.  Not the worst things I'd ever heard, but the largest amount from the most people, you know?  By the end of the day I had a migraine and was throwing up.  Violence didn't happen in my house growing up and it doesn't happen in my house now, so it's hard for me to imagine the mindset that thinks it's normal or acceptable.  I can care about the abuser, too, I just don't want them in relationships.  Well, I say that in theory.  When I'm listening to one justify their actions and feeling so entitled and absolutely correct, I'm thinking "DIE IN A FIRE!"

                  Also, yes, as the mother of young children, it's just awful to think about the lives other kids.  It's unreal.  Some of these women, 30, 40, 50 years old and still thinking like young children.  Did you see the movie Gone Baby Gone?

                  Your magazine is a great idea.  So is a support group, especially one where we can talk about creative solutions for putting our degrees to work.  These degrees cost a lot of money, and I realize in retrospect how much mind had to do with just attempting to give myself an ego boost!

                  by Erin on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:17:17 AM PDT

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                  • And to think (0 / 0)

                    we have the audacity to feel like we should get paid!

                    by Erin on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:26:51 AM PDT

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                    • I know! (0 / 0)

                      Getting paid is just crazy talk, isn't it.

                      I don't know how you did it, that internship. Seriously. I hope you had awesome supervisors, that makes a big difference. But still, it is what it is, no matter how much you love your supervisor.

                      I haven't seen that movie, didn't realize it was about a mother and her kid. I do remember when ds was about a month old, I was holding him while he slept in his nice, restful bedroom with a tree outside his window, and thinking of one of my former child clients, "she never got this, at all." Just the holding part, let alone the restful room. I definitely got more than I bargained for in getting this degree, also.

                      Keep me posted as you make decisions about all of this.

                      by RachelD on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:46:51 PM PDT

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  • Either way (0 / 0)

    Am I alone in thinking that the new Abby, who I believe is the real Abby's daughter, is just about the worst advice columnist possible?

    by RachelD on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:32:51 PM PDT

  • Here's an idea (0 / 0)

    Maybe she thinks that she would be on the chopping block if there are lay-offs because she is making more than the "market rate" for her position in her area.  Of course, if this was the case she probably would have mentioned it in the letter but that's about the only sensible reason for asking for a pay cut that I could imagine.  I kind of think that even in that scenario, asking for the pay cut may be asking for trouble as it would bring unwelcome scrutiny.

    by music teacher on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:15:45 PM PDT

  • Could her husband be making too LITTLE? (0 / 0)

    When I read that article, my first thought was that the letter writer isn't aware that for most workers, wages have barely kept pace with inflation for, well, too long.  

    It could very well be that her husband works for a "corporate sweat shop" and she works for a firm who gives their employees regular raises that are well above the rate of inflation.

    by upstatemom on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:35:15 PM PDT

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