Mother Talkers

Quite a Story

Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:31:58 AM PDT

Cross-posted at Fussbucket

About a week ago I went to hear a lecture on talking to kids about sex by Amy Lang, a parent educator in Seattle. I really was just tagging along with a friend and hadn't given much thought to the topic since my kids are only four and one-year old.

Well, I got an earful. Here's some of what she said:

We're told we should wait until they ask us. That's not true. It's not their job to know when they're ready. We need to be the ones to initiate the conversation. It's really important to have early, regular, consistent conversations with your kids about sex throughout childhood and adolescence.

How early? Earlier than you might think.

By age five they should know. Up to age five, they're a blank slate. They come to the conversation with curiosity. It's really easy to talk to them about it. It's science, it's biology.

After that, she says they go to school and hear about it from other kids who may or may not have their facts straight.

You tell them that sex is for older people. Sex is for when you are in love. You get to give them facts and information and a big dose of your family values. Hopefully you're in their head by the time they start dealing with this.

  • ::

I sat there thinking about my older son Sage who still talks to his imaginary friends and wonders aloud if he can go surfing soon without realizing he needs to learn how to swim first. And then I thought about how she said this is a matter of health and safety. She said kids who know about their private body parts and understand that sex is something that grown-ups do, may be able to protect themselves better if they are ever faced with a creepy adult. That was reason enough for me.

So I took her advice and bought a book to get the conversation going. The book I got is called "What's the Big Secret? Talking About Sex with Girls and Boys." I decided to read it to him this weekend.

The first time we sat down with the book was Saturday afternoon. It starts out talking about the differences between boys and girls.

Actually, the only sure way to tell boys and girls apart is by their bodies. If you're a boy, you have a penis, scrotum, and testicles.

If you're a girl, you have a vulva, clitoris, and vagina.

These male and female body parts that show on the outside are called your genitals. Boys genitals are easier to see than girls', but both are equally important.

Hurray! He was riveted.

Then we moved on to issues of privacy and touching and I noticed that his breathing was getting steady and his body wasn't wiggling as much. By the time we got to intercourse, he had fallen asleep.

Later that night he wanted me to read the book to him again. He managed to stay awake this time and mostly seemed interested in the explanation of genitals, but he was starting to catch on that there was more to this conversation. It seemed as though it had never occurred to him before to wonder where babies come from. He was intrigued.

The next morning he asked me to read the book to him again and we spent more time on the part about how babies are made. Later on when we were in the kitchen getting breakfast ready, he asked me, "But how does it make the baby?" I knew what he meant. He didn't understand how all of it translated into an actual person. And honestly, neither do I.

I agreed with him that it's mysterious and then tried to explain it once more. I talked about how the daddy and mommy love each other and some of the mechanics involved, including the part about the sperm swimming fast to meet the egg. When I was done he said, "That was quite a story mom." Indeed.

Well, at least I got the conversation started. What do you think? Is four too young to have this conversation? Or is this the right to time get the facts in before he's too embarrassed to talk to me about it?

Tags: talking to kids about sex, Amy Lang (all tags)

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  • I don't really know... (0 / 0)

    I still don't know how I feel about it. It's hard to see my way through the cultural baggage associated with sex (and by extension, sex ed...)

    What I do know is that my four-year-old son is definitely interested in biology. A friend gave us a heap of books that her daughter had outgrown. One was a Japanese book about bellybuttons--the character Tettchan learns how his bellybutton used to have a cord attached that tied him to his mother and that's how he got all his food. It shows the cord being cut and a bandage being taped over the spot, etc. My son is really into this book, and he asks me to read it quite a bit. I can easily imagine a similar book about sex or conception. I'm certain he would find it similarly fascinating.

    It's an interesting point-at later ages, the topic of sex is likely to be embarrassing to both parent and child. At this age, it's only embarrassing to one of the parties!

    • So true! (0 / 0)

      I will have to get over my own embarrassment I guess! At least If I start with Avery now, also 4, I can give myself time to get used to being so open about this stuff. Then maybe by the time she is 14, she will feel no qualms about being open with me. Having a baby boy in the house presents great opportunities for us to talk about different body parts, too. It comes up pretty often since she likes to help with diaper changes.

      Last summer she was talking about how boys have short hair, and that's why they are boys, and likewise with girls and long hair. So, I explained then and there that was not why a biy was a boy and a girl was a girl. I told her all about the differences in the bodies, and she was silent for about 5 straight minutes afterward! I could just see in her expression how her mind was turning over all of this new information.

      • embarrassment (0 / 0)

        Yesterday we were reading the book again and we got onto the topic of erections. I was kind of dying of embarrassment, but I acted like it was perfectly normal for us to be talking about it. He seemed to feel fine about it, telling me what happens in his body. I felt like that was a good thing. I do want him to feel like he can talk to me about this stuff. I'll just have to get over feeling funny about it.

        • I don't find it embarrassing as much as (0 / 0)

          I wonder when is the right time to bring it up. I go about my days with my kids, and we go from breakfast to school to activities to dinner to bedtime, and it's not like there's a really obvious moment to start talking about sex. It's sort of like, "Apropos of nothing, do you know where babies come from and would you like mommy to tell you?"

          When my daughter turned 9, I sat her down and gave her a very frank talk about sex. Literally, the penis gets hard when a man gets excited, then it goes into the vagina, sperm comes out of the penis, meets the egg in the womb, and fertilizes it, and starts growing a baby. I didn't know how else to do it except to just be very blunt. My daughter seemed a little taken aback by it, but I didn't want there to be any gaps in her understanding. She didn't really ask any questions, but I told her, "Those are the facts, and if you hear anything from your friends that differs wildly from what I just told you, they're probably wrong ... and if you have any questions, let me know and I will clarify things." I don't know if I handled it correctly ... but it was all I could think to do!

        • Oh, isn't that true! (0 / 0)

          No matter how much I understand that it's natural, I, too, have the funny feeling.  Little Boy is all about touching himself in the bath these days and we had to talk through how it feels good, but it's for private and not in front of me or Papa Bear.  I think I came away more shocked by it all than he did.  I suppose that's good, though, that I have the shock and he just filed it away as part of his day.

  • Interesting post (0 / 0)

    I have tried to be good at open dialog on all topics with my kids.  I can't say that I started a detailed conversation specifically like you post about at age 4, but I have had a running dialog about human bodies and sexuality with my kids since they were little.  That they both followed me into the bathroom for most of their young lives provided a springboard for lots of discussion that was easy and natural, if also at times a bit inconvenient-- LOL.

    I remember my son's interest in a book I brought home regarding reproduction and body changes -- he was pretty young, but could read by himself.  He was extremely interested in that book and I thought it provided a great way for him to soak up info in a different way than my  talking  with him.  I gave a similar book to my daughter that was age appropriate when it seemed she was ready for more information and where she could be by herself to ponder and reflect on her own, knowing she could always ask me questions.

    Even with our openness, it is curious that there is a point where sex and any discussion of it becomes something awkward to broach - at times very, and at other times just somewhat.  But overall, I feel  confident and content with the information our kids received from us along the way.  

    I am still amazed at the saturation of mindless, and imo cheap and sad, sexuality that is lobbed at our kids all day long via mass media and our culture in general and feel that this is one of the reasons that sex becomes such a hot topic and a confusing one as well.  

    • having the talk over the years (0 / 0)

      I am still amazed at the saturation of mindless, and imo cheap and sad, sexuality that is lobbed at our kids all day long via mass media and our culture in general and feel that this is one of the reasons that sex becomes such a hot topic and a confusing one as well.

      Maybe that's why it feels so strange to be talking about it in such an open way with my innocent little one. I don't want to taint him in any way. But of course, what I'm saying is that sex is something that grown-ups do and it's a loving thing. He doesn't understand everything yet.The parent educator said that they will gradually come to understand more and more and that by the time they are older, you want to be talking about healthy relationships and birth control and how to protect yourself physically and emotionally. When they're little, you're just giving them some basic factual information.

  • We have a Human Body book (0 / 0)

    by DK Eyewitness Books that I was happy to find in a used book store.  I went through the pages on reproduction with my son when he was about 8.  He is very scientific, so I think he understood everything.  He sees his sister nude, and me, too (I am quite immodest inside my home, I don't get embarrassed yet).  Maybe it is time to have the conversation with him again.

    Before he started 4th grade, I explained that there may be secrets the girls will share and it's not for the boys to talk about.  I was talking about menstruation, of course.  I said that if he ever saw a girl crying, he should ask if there's anything he could do but if she says no, he should go get a woman to come and help.  I kind of laugh at myself in retrospect, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.  Now that I've met a bunch of them, 4th grade girls are pretty cool.  I can't imagine one of them in a withered pool of tears over getting their period at school, lol.

    I think it's a great idea to bring this topic up again.  Like the author says, don't wait to be asked.  I'm proactive about drug/tobacco/alcohol/choking game education, so why not sex, too?

  • I was hoping to leave it to church! (0 / 0)

    Kidding.  Maybe.  Hey, fellow UUs and UCCers, how does the OWL program fit in with your plans or experiences?  They have it first in, like, 1st grade, right?  

    Of course, if we have another kid and DS is old enough to be curious, I guess will get started then.  But I imagine young kids are more concerned about how a baby will affect their life than how it came to be.

  • wholeheartedly agree (0 / 0)

    with the idea of having my son informed before he starts school.

    in fact, i taught him the word uterus the other day because i was getting tired of hearing about babies growing in "tummies."

    thanks for the book ideas, i will be picking one of those up.

    my parents taught us the basics before school. i cannot tell you how wonderful it was to grow up knowing i could ask my parents questions and get honest no-nonsense answers. it was a safeplace, a security, when so much in life and body was changing. i hope to give that to my son as well.

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

    by lorin on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:58:21 AM PDT

    • That's great (0 / 0)

      that your parents taught you the basics before you went to school. I don't remember how I learned the facts of life, but I'm sure it wasn't from my parents. I just want to be sure that my son knows the correct information and if he's confused about something, that he can ask me about it.

    • I agree (0 / 0)

      my mother also taught me before I was in primary school. The first time I can really clearly remember talking about sex and reproduction is when my mom was pregnant with my sister. A natural time, right? She bought that book A Child Is Born with the beautiful in utero photos and we spent a lot of time poring over the pictures and talking.

      I feel that I was really lucky to have that, and also, later, to go to a high school where sex ed happened over multiple years and in a very matter-of-fact environment. It wasn't an abstinance-only curriculum, thank god, but real, true sex-ed, including talks from Planned Parenthood.

  • Thanks! (0 / 0)

    I just bought this book online!

  • Just had 'the talk' last week (0 / 0)

    and we used the same book. But my DD is 9, and I'm not sure I agree with this:

    We're told we should wait until they ask us. That's not true. It's not their job to know when they're ready.

    I think you can go either way on this one. As with all parenting issues, it's highly dependent on the child in question. You don't want to risk forcing your own standard of readiness on your child, and not all kids will be ready by an artificial deadline like "before school starts."

    We try to have an open dialogue with our kids and answer whatever questions they have with openness and humor. We also tell our kids that their friends (and teachers) do not always have the right information, so they should run things past Mom and Dad for verification.

    We had already set a precendent for the sex talk by answering questions on topics ranging from 'Frenchly' kissing to birth control/abortion (i.e., "So-and-so says some moms take pills to kill their babies. Is that true?"--Fun times!) I don't think she thought twice about asking me about sex once she realized that there was 'more to the story.' When all was said and done, she thought it was absolutely hilarious!

    • I agree (0 / 0)

      You have to make your own judgment about whether or not to bring up the topic. But I thought she made some good points about the fact that they will hear about it from other kids and through classes in school and that it's a good idea to offer yourself up as a trusted resource for information as well as someone who can give guidance.

  • In our small-group ministry parenting group (0 / 0)

    Next week's topic is "hot topics, like questions about God and sex,"  so this is very timely.
  • DS was really curious about sex (0 / 0)

    from ages 5 - 6.  He asked lots of questions.  I bought him tasteful books with line drawings, and he went to the library and got books with photos -- more realistic.  I think I've told this story before but I'll never forget one night we were watching a movie with Goldie Hawn and Omar Sharif.  They ended up in bed, with the covers to their necks -- not racy at all.  DS suddenly blurts out, "I knew the man went on top!"  Once he got it sorted out, it seemed like his sexual curiousity kind of subsided.  

    I asked him recently about sex and when he thought it would be a good age to try it.  He started laughing and called me a freak.  I'm glad we had all those talks back in the day!  He does have condoms from sex ed and he knows how and why to use them.

  • This post has me really thinking (0 / 0)

    I haven't talked to my kids about this at all (they are almost 6 and almost 3). We're pretty open in our house, and they do know that I don't have a penis and that's what makes me different and a girl (we've had conversations about the fact that my poop comes out of the same place as theirs, but my pee comes out a different place). They both have seen me in the bathroom when I have my period and I've explained what it is in only very general terms.

    They both love to be naked and enjoy wrestling each other without any clothes on (for reasons now lost to me, they call this "feisting"). But they are both pretty much totally innocent.

    This has me thinking I should talk to at least the older one, but I have to say I don't really know how to bring it up. Probably I'll need to buy a book (thanks for the suggestion) and just leave it lying around for him to find and read and ask questions about. I can't see it coming up organically. I also have to get DH on board. He's not a prude, but he just doesn't find this discussion to be necessary, at least not yet.

    And I guess I haven't felt it to be either. Is it really something we have to do before our kids even ask us questions about it? I always answer my kids' questions honestly - they've never asked me where babies come from.

    • natural time (0 / 0)

      I don't think the conversation would have come up organically in our house either. We read books together all the time so I just said to him that I had bought a new book that I wanted to read to him. He has been interested in it and reading it together since I brought it up. If he hadn't shown any interest I would have let the issue drop.  

    • period stuff (0 / 0)

      I've just started getting periods again after the birth of my second kid, and had my first experience with my oldest (3) witnessing what was going on.  I use a menstrual cup (Keeper) and he saw me rinsing it out and reinserting.  I got a lot of questions, like "What is that for?  Where did you put that?  Can I see where it went?"  

      I tried to explain about what was going on without freaking him out too much.  I didn't use the word blood, for example, but I did explain that it was going in my vagina.  He was quite intrigued, since he didn't really know what that was beyond "what girls have instead of a penis."  My husband said I should have told him that I have a special pocket, which is a pretty funny term for it.

      At least it's better than when I was dealing with post-partum bleeding and he was just over two.  He saw me changing a pad and looked shocked, then said "Mommy has a poopy diaper!"

    • Books lying around (0 / 0)

      was the method of choice in our house.  Once you've read Our Bodies, ourselves a few times, you have a decent handle...of course then I also tracked down The Joy of Sex, and paid particular attention to the sex scenes in such fine realistic fiction as The Clan of the Cave Bear.

      I did get the whole "your body is changing" thing at 6 when I started to get breasts and at 8 when I got my period, but nobody connected it to sex.  I was very concerned that this didn't mean it was time for me to have a baby.  That would have really cramped my style.

  • FWIW (0 / 0)

    The way my son found out more details than I had shared with him was on his way home in a carpool from kindergarten.  During the drive, the kids spotted two dogs engaged sexually and all sorts of comments ensued.  The Mom who was driving at the time, decided to matter-of-factly tell the kids exactly what was going on and for good measure threw in some details on how humans reproduce.    At the time, I was very upset because of having lost the opportunity to have that conversation with him myself, and also I hadn't thought he was necessarily "ready" for that kind of info.....but there you go.  You never know how that info will come to your child.    

    For my kids, later was better (kindergarten was too early),  though they had what I considered to be developmentally appropriate knowledge -- parts of body, correct names, etc.  I chose to start more detailed talks with them about sexuality just before their schools were delivering sex ed --- which is currently in the 4th grade, I believe.  Even that age can feel young depending on the child....but with all the media and information flowing to them at increasing speed and quantity, that young age is probably pretty common to have already been exposed to a great deal of info.

  • They will pick it up easier than you think (0 / 0)

    When I was a nanny to a 5yo and a 3yo, the 5yo got the full story from a friend at school on where babies come from and what mommies and daddies do in bed, etc.  She told her parents that she had learned all about it and so they sat down with her to to figure out what she had heard and fill any gaps.  They were pleased to learn that the other kid had his facts right so they didn't really need to clarify much.  However, they did suggest that she not tell her little brother as he might not be old enough to get it.  She agreed that was a great idea, but confessed that she had already told him.  

    So they sat down with him and determined that he hadn't really picked any of it up at all and didn't seem to care.  They decided they would revisit it later when he was interested.  

    Fast forward a few weeks, grandma is visiting, and the 3yo is eating carrots like crazy.  Grandma says something like "you are eating so many carrots, you're going to turn into a rabbit" and 3yo busts out with "no, I'm not.  Because only mommy rabbits and daddy rabbits can have baby rabbits, and it happens when the daddy rabbit jumps on top of the mommy rabbit and puts his penis in her vagina and some goop comes out and then a baby rabbit starts growing and later it comes out of the mom".  

    Grandma was shocked, as were the mom and dad.  However, mom and dad had the good sense to nod sagely as if that was exactly what they had told him, and they were glad that he'd gotten everything right.  

    Kids don't miss much

  • Good thing you had (0 / 0)

    the talk because it sounds like your son is truly a man already!

    By the time we got to intercourse, he had fallen asleep.

  • DH not down with this (0 / 0)

    So I brought this up last night with DH because I thought it would be good to have this discussion with our kids (4 and 6).  He thought I was nuts!  He's afraid that the whole idea of intercourse will freak them out and ruin their opposite-sex friendships because they'll see their girl friends in a different way.  I think part of the basis for his fear is that he was totally freaked out when he learned about it in the 5th grade.  My argument was, of course you were freaked out because you had never heard anything like it before then and you were old enough to be embarrassed, if we tell them now before they've built up baggage about it, it will just be biology, not such a big deal.

    Anyway, I could not convince him, he is totally against it until at least 3rd grade.  I completely disagree with him but this issue seems to be in the category of things you can't compromise on and the more status quo position has to win (like, you can't decide to have a baby unless both people are on board).

    To be fair, our kids aren't totally clueless.  We use proper anatomical terms, we talk about how babies are made in terms of eggs and fertilization, where the baby grows and comes out, they just don't know about the intercourse part and where the daddy's "seed" comes from.  Of course, that all came from me and he probably wouldn't have volunteered it given the choice.

    I'm frustrated because it seems so obvious to me, but what can you do?  I guess I'll have to keep working on him...

    • safety (0 / 0)

      One of the things that convinced me to go ahead and have this conversation with my son was the idea that if kids know about this stuff and they understand that sex and the touching of private parts is NOT for kids, only grown ups, then they might be better able to protect themselves if someone tries to do something inappropriate. Not that I said that directly to my son, but the topic did come up that your body is yours and if you don't like the way someone is touching you, you should tell them to stop and tell mom and dad or some other adult.

      If you want to keep working on DH, maybe you could talk about the safety aspect, grim as it is.

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