Mother Talkers

Do you favor mall curfews for teens?

by alicetben

Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 01:16:56 PM PDT

Yet, another good diary. Thanks, Alice! -Elisa

Recently a mall near us started a curfew for kids 16 & under. They can't go to the mall on Friday or Saturday after 4pm unless accompanied by an adult over 21. What do you think of this? The mall's position is that the kids are using the mall as a hangout & are disruptive.They claim business has suffered as a result.

The mall is not one of the more popular ones & the big draw is the movie theater inside. I have been to this mall on weekend evenings before the curfew & noticed the typical gathering of young people waiting in the adjoining food area near the movie entrance.My thought is the reason the mall is losing business is because it is an older mall & the biggest store in it is Target.

The mall is basing the policy on one used by malls in other cities such as Mall of the Americas. Have you run into issues with kids overrunning the malls in your area? Do you drop off your young teens or allow them to go to the mall without "adult" supervision?

You can read the details of the story here & let's hear your reaction.
http://www.nola.com/...

Tags: teens, children (all tags)

Permalink | 33 comments

  • I don't support a ban (0 / 0)

    Ok, so malls are private property and the owners have the right, but I don't support it. Mainly because when I was a teenager, hanging at the mall was a NJ rite of passage. Seriously, when you're a teenager, how many places do you have where you can hang out? Mind you, my folks were pretty strict, so it wasn't like they'd drop me off at noon and pick me up again at mall closing time of 10 p.m. But when I was 16 or so, it was nice to be dropped off at around 6 p.m. to have dinner with my friends at the food court and then go see a movie. We all felt relatively grown up, relatively anonymous because all teenagers hung out at the mall, and didn't get into trouble (we were not shoplifters!).

    I just don't like this idea of demonizing teenagers yet again; they feel alienated enough. Why make them feel like criminals on top of it?

    by Rachel on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 01:55:19 PM PDT

    • We did this, too (0 / 0)

      and it was nice to have this freedom. We didn't have a downtown like my parents had growing up, where you could walk to the movies and the hamburger place, etc., so this was a nice substitute.

      Didn't do it for hours on end [just a few in the evening] and I was probably 16 when I started, but it was nice to be able to have this bit of independence.

      by Lisa in Austin on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 03:14:38 PM PDT

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    • movies (0 / 0)

      We got dropped off at a lot of movies, now that I think about it, but it was a movie theatre in a little downtown.

      by NJmom on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:24:26 PM PDT

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  • Our mall did this (0 / 0)

    The big mall in my town had a crime problem with gang members from the inner city that escalated to stabbings etc.  It's been a good thing in my opinion.  I'm not sure I would recommend it in an area where there weren't problems to begin with though.

    BTW, the teens at our mall can access the food court, anchor stores and cineplex without supervision on weekends.  

    by music teacher on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 02:31:17 PM PDT

    • Our community, too (0 / 0)

      It was the upscale mall that made the policy after they had a rash of issues, articles in the paper, etc.  Doesn't hurt that another mall renovated and became "the place to be" and is competing hard for business.  It's been about a year now and there are fewer articles, though who knows if that means fewer problems.

      The Milwaukee Metro area has had a problem with malls closing due to crime.  Two malls that were around when I was a kid are no more.  

      I don't know if it was a good thing or not.  I see a real lack of things for teens to do in our community.  On the other hand, folks should feel safe to shop without some of the "mean mugging" and other mugging that was going on.  Honestly, it's a bigger problem than just a mall curfew in our area.

      Jen

      by MrsPastor on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:42:31 PM PDT

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    • lots (0 / 0)

      Lots of malls around here are less-than-safe places to be at night too.

      by NJmom on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:53:06 PM PDT

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    • that's a horse of a different color! (0 / 0)

      gang problems?  yes of course a ban is appropriate.

      by parentalunit1 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 05:36:52 PM PDT

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  • I don't know what bothers me more (0 / 0)

    demonizing the kids for hanging out (in public) where they can't get into too much trouble or the fact that the mall is likely the only place they have to do this.

    This kind of decision and attitude seems to fit in with the trends in our culture that don't allow children to have any life at all without adults around to supervise them. What kind of adults will they turn out to be without the chance to have even a modicum of independence? Even if it's just to eat French fries?

    And developers of malls have worked hard to make malls the only places people have to go, usurping downtowns and other open and public spaces - I don't think it's right for them to turn around and cry that it's private property.

    by mpg on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:11:55 PM PDT

    • you have a really good point (0 / 0)

      and I think actually the bigger question is why there aren't more community centres/programs for teenagers for the weekend afternoons/evenings. My mom used to tell me about "Teen Canteen" when she was a teenager in the late 50s; the local park used to hire a band and have a dance on Fridays and Saturdays. Why aren't there more of that now?

      I felt really bad for the kids in the article that Alice linked to; it's New Orleans. I imagine that there aren't too many places where it's okay for teenagers to hang out. Seems awfully cruel, in light of what has and hasn't happened in NO in the wake of Katrina.

      by Rachel on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:20:05 PM PDT

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      • a real need.. (0 / 0)

        and one our community struggles with as well.  we have been trying to get a teen center together for quite a long time.  but it is very difficult and the city won't support it  claiming the kids won't go to it.

        i am wondering why teens have become  discriminated against as it seems more pronounced than when i was younger.

        by parentalunit1 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 05:27:31 PM PDT

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        • my empirical oberservations coincide (0 / 0)

          when we lived in London, the big issue were "anti-social behavior orders" (ASBOs) - basically, restraining orders barring people from doing certain things in certain places. A lot of teens were being slammed with them, and in the last six months we were there, the big issue was teenagers who wear hooded sweatshirts; a lot of malls and stores were demanding that all teenagers remove the hoods from around their heads. I mean, ok - if it's 85 degrees and a kid is wearing a hooded sweatshirt, maybe things are a little weird, but to demand that all teenagers keep their hoodies down at all times? What possible end is this going to accomplish?!

          by Rachel on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 05:41:52 PM PDT

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          • just got back ... (0 / 0)

            from an evening out with dh. we went to a local restaurant. they opened 2 years ago and have live music and karoke.  the guy who owns the place opened his place up after his normal serving hours to teens once a month ( on his own without solictation) has a dj and provides a dance floor. i asked him how it was going tonight and the grief he is taking from our city sounds unfair.  perhaps i don't have the full story but so far his side is mind boggling. it will be interesting to investigate this one.

            by parentalunit1 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 09:17:39 PM PDT

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  • Leave it to our society (0 / 0)

    in our wonderful country that immerses us in the culture of consumerism and then says "nope, you can't go to the place where that is the activity.."  It reminds me of how  sexuality and alcohol and a host of other issues are shoved down our throats daily and then our culture smacks kids in the head for daring to make those choices.  

    Go F*** figure.

    OTOH...sometimes things can get outta control and someone needs to lay down a few ground rules...I don't know, I'm just shakin' my head.

    karen

    by karen m on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:19:40 PM PDT

  • good (0 / 0)

    Ok, I totally hate malls, so let me just say that from the get-go.  I haven't been in a typical enclosed mall for at least 15 years.  If my kids never set foot in a mall, that would be fine with me.

    Anyhoo.  16 and under?  Sounds like a reasonable restriction to me.

    Malls are private property, so they can do as they please I would imagine, especially when it comes to supervision of minors, since they ultimately would become responsible for them should anything happen.

    If they kids really love malls, they can still go stroll around on Saturday, during the day.

    I went to high school in a very sleepy town and we hung out at someone's house every Saturday night, a whole bunch of us, and just watched movies, played pool, with the parents home.  

    Kids under 16 (or 18) don't need to be hanging about a mall at night.

    by NJmom on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:22:49 PM PDT

    • First off I'm very impressed (0 / 0)

      that you live in New Jersey and haven't been in a mall for that long!

      I understand what you are saying to some extent, but are you really opposed to teenaged kids being able to go to a movie without an adult? Or go have a soda with their friends? In my experience, not every parent is at home on a weekend night, and leaving kids to go to their friends isn't always the safest bet.

      If malls weren't the only safe place for kids to hang out in a lot of places I'd agree with you more, but when they are the only decent public place for kids to go, it seems very unfair and antisocial not to allow them there.

      by mpg on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:29:58 PM PDT

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      • yes (0 / 0)

        Yes, I really dislike those enclosed malls.  I tend to  mail-order shop or just run into select stores, usually not in closed malls, for what I need.

        I didn't really think about the movies, more like just that aimless loitering about the interior of the mall.  I think dropping off at the movies is fine.

        We spent most of our time at each other's houses and our parents were always home (boring people they were!) To be fair, the closest mall was at least 10 miles away and was super boring anyway.

        Back to the walking about the mall thing, I would think that kids under 16 could get their fair share of that during the day.  It's not like the mall is totally banning them.

        by NJmom on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 04:51:54 PM PDT

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        • less places for teens to hang.. (0 / 0)

          and in our community a place where kids used to go to eat has now said they can't hang out around their establishment.  i suppose this depends on behavior and maybe that is the problem, but it sure feels as though teens have very few options.

          by parentalunit1 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 05:35:26 PM PDT

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          • i do think that this (0 / 0)

            often starts because as my parents used to say "a few bad apples..." oy...I guess we do turn into our parents somewhat...but don't you think that this is part of the issue?  That at some point there was a bad scene and now the whole mall is painting the situation with one broad brush --- Not  unlike the zero tolerance policies at schools --- I mean imo how in the world does anyone figure out how to act if we don't allow for some mistakes and for people to be out and about without super heavy restrictions?

            OTOH, I agree that teens need places to hang out, socialize etc., but I happen to not be a fan of hanging out in malls simply because I think it immerses kids in the world of consumerism that tends to be rampant rather than reined in a bit in our country.  But that's just me.

            My dd certainly does on occasion go to the mall with friends and for the life of her she can't figure out why I don't like shopping so much....to each their own, I guess.

            karen

            by karen m on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 05:57:10 PM PDT

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            • don't be too worried (0 / 0)

              I used to do my fair share of mall-hanging as a teenager and I'm most certainly not a shopping fanatic! ;-) We all survive our mall-rat days.

              I was just thinking of why it seemed like such fun when I was 14-18. Partially, it was because malls weren't unfriendly to teenagers when I was younger; it was a good place to window-shop without feeling like a criminal or intruder. It was the illusion of what seems like adult power - the ability to try things on, make decisions, even ... spend money! The fun of doing something semi-purposeful, but without the watchful eye of the parents.

              Also I think it has something to do with the fact that we all used to meet at the mall in groups and wander around together. I don't know why, precisely. All I remember is that it was a lot of fun just to do it.

              by Rachel on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 06:02:54 PM PDT

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              • yea, I do sway around (0 / 0)

                with my opinions on this....my dd can go certainly, but what i rail against is the effect on her which often is that she wants to buy evermore stuff....but all in all, she is pretty good about reining in her spending etc.

                I do see your point Rachel...thanks. :>)

                The up side for me when dd goes to the mall locally is that I feel she is safe while wandering around with friends...there is another mall not too far away where I wouldn't necessarily feel that way at night for her and wouldn't want her to go there to hang out.

                One time  she was followed by a couple of older girls who asked for her money etc., when she was with one other friend and it kind of freaked her out --- though with the advent of cell phones and the ability to dodge into another store, all turned out fine.  

                Gotta learn to navigate the world that's for sure.

                karen

                by karen m on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 06:09:09 PM PDT

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                • sure, and I see your point too (0 / 0)

                  Personally, I was a tightwad when I was a teenager, mostly because my income was almost wholly derived from babysitting and my afterschool job. That cassette tape (yes, I'm dating myself!)? Three hours of babysitting the kids down the block!

                  I'm sure Ms. Meg has a good head on her shoulders and won't fall into the trap; she's got you and your DH and parents, after all! ;-P

                  by Rachel on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 06:12:22 PM PDT

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  • I'm of two minds on this one (0 / 0)

    OTOneH, it's good for kids to have independent time away from adults.  OTOtherH, if the kids are getting rowdy and interfering with business, I think the mall has a right to restrict their access.

    I have thought about this because since he was 11 DS has been walking through a downtown area on Fridays after school with friends.  They sometimes walk as far as an open-air mall.  Along the way they window-shop and stop for food.  I have talked to DS all along about being polite and not rowdy, and have talked to him specifically about business owners not appreciating kids running in and out of their stores, or shoppers feeling intimidated by roving groups.  There were a couple of times when the specific group of kids he went with sounded like it could have turned in to a handful and in those cases, I just picked him up early.  I know I hate shopping enough already with a pack of kids clogging up the walkways and getting loud.  I know that at least once his friends were disruptive during a movie.  Not cool.

    Now he has informal relationships with several of the small business owners.  He doesn't have as much free time to walk around downtown, but he still goes there on his own to have something to eat and memorize lines before a class.  I know he really relishes that independence.  

    by mamacita on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 07:24:48 PM PDT

  • Here's more to the story (0 / 0)

    I was searching to find the update to post the link.
    http://www.wwltv.com/...

    It seems some teens were pretty upset about the change so they spouted off online about taking action- with guns! Now this may have been just the usual teen temper but the police didn't take any chances. They arrested them & nothing happened at the mall. Don't theses kids know how much they have proved the point of the people that implemented the curfew? It just goes to show that good decision making is not being absorbed by some kids. Back in the day it would have been dismissed as mouthing off but kids need to know that in the current atmosphere of fear nothing is a joke anymore.

    And as to this report's mention of teens having sex in the parking lot... well, the ban only said they couldn't be inside the mall unless with someone over 21. :) I highly doubt that sex in the parking lots is a regular "lovers lane"  deal. If so why doesn't the security staff patrol it better. This mall is dark &  the area nearest the theater /mall entrance needs patrolling for patron safety anyway.

    My kids were never "mall rats" as it seems many of teens today are. What I would like to have seen is the mall get with some of the area middle & high schools to have students form a panel to help come up with a plan. That way the needs of the kids could have been addressed & the concerns of the mall could have been passed along.

    by alicetben on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 08:39:20 AM PDT

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