Mother Talkers

Why kids lie

Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:51:49 PM PDT

Taking advantage of my first time "front paging" to share this story from New York Magazine.  It's a very interesting story about how kids learn to lie (did you know it's a sign of intelligence?), why they continue to lie, and what they lie about.

(Unfortunately, the teaser headline - "they're copying their parents" is only a small part of the story - just another stab at parent-guilt)

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It starts off with a discussion about a study of teens' lying.  The research said that about 98% of teens lie

Out of the 36 topics, the average teen was lying to his parents about twelve of them. The teens lied about what they spent their allowances on, and whether they’d started dating, and what clothes they put on away from the house. They lied about what movie they went to, and whom they went with. They lied about alcohol and drug use, and they lied about whether they were hanging out with friends their parents disapproved of. They lied about how they spent their afternoons while their parents were at work. They lied about whether chaperones were in attendance at a party or whether they rode in cars driven by drunken teens.

Being an honors student didn’t change these numbers by much; nor did being an overscheduled kid. No kid, apparently, was too busy to break a few rules.

 ((Yikes! As the parent of an "honor student", this one hit home!))

And in younger kids, lying is actually an indicator of advanced development!

Although we think of truthfulness as a young child’s paramount virtue, it turns out that lying is the more advanced skill. A child who is going to lie must recognize the truth, intellectually conceive of an alternate reality, and be able to convincingly sell that new reality to someone else. Therefore, lying demands both advanced cognitive development and social skills that honesty simply doesn’t require. "It’s a developmental milestone," Talwar has concluded.

Why do kids lie?

Avoiding punishment is still a primary catalyst for lying, but lying also becomes a way to increase a child’s power and sense of control—by manipulating friends with teasing, by bragging to assert status, and by learning he can fool his parents.

Thrown into elementary school, many kids begin lying to their peers as a coping mechanism, as a way to vent frustration or get attention.

Interestingly, when kids figure out that lying works, they develop a habit.  This is something I've tried to do teacher training on - teach children that the consequences for telling the truth are more positive than the ones for lying - teach truth telling as a habit/skill to counteract lying.

Here's the part about parents teach lying

The most disturbing reason children lie is that parents teach them to. According to Talwar, they learn it from us. "We don’t explicitly tell them to lie, but they see us do it. They see us tell the telemarketer, ‘I’m just a guest here.’ They see us boast and lie to smooth social relationships."

Consider how we expect a child to act when he opens a gift he doesn’t like. We instruct him to swallow all his honest reactions and put on a polite smile. .....
Meanwhile, the child’s parent usually cheers when the child comes up with the white lie. "Often, the parents are proud that their kids are ‘polite’—they don’t see it as lying," Talwar remarks. She’s regularly amazed at parents’ seeming inability to recognize that white lies are still lies.

and

Encouraged to tell so many white lies and hearing so many others, children gradually get comfortable with being disingenuous. Insincerity becomes, literally, a daily occurrence. They learn that honesty only creates conflict, and dishonesty is an easy way to avoid conflict. And while they don’t confuse white-lie situations with lying to cover their misdeeds, they bring this emotional groundwork from one circumstance to the other.

I disagree with that point - I think kids eventually learn the difference between being kind or polite, and telling the truth.  Seth's school has a "Character trait of the month" and we had a great discussion at School Leadership Team about how "honesty" is a tricky trait to teach, but that kids do eventually get it.
Here's a bit about teens lying and autonomy

By withholding details about their lives, adolescents carve out a social domain and identity that are theirs alone, independent from their parents or other adult authority figures. To seek out a parent for help is, from a teen’s perspective, a tacit admission that he’s not mature enough to handle it alone. . . . the objection to parental authority peaks around ages 14 to 15. In fact, this resistance is slightly stronger at age 11 than at 18. In popular culture, we think of high school as the risk years, but the psychological forces driving deception surge earlier than that.

Finally, a part interesting to me was the relationship between lying and fighting/confrontation in teens.  Teens who argue about rules are less likely to lie about them - they just put it out in the open.

In the families where there was less deception, however, there was a much higher ratio of arguing and complaining. The argument enabled the child to speak honestly. Certain types of fighting, despite the acrimony, were ultimately signs of respect—not of disrespect.

How do you minimize lying in your child/teen?  Find a way to set fewer rules, but then be willing to enforce them.

"Ironically, the type of parents who are actually most consistent in enforcing rules are the same parents who are most warm and have the most conversations with their kids," Darling observes. They’ve set a few rules over certain key spheres of influence, and they’ve explained why the rules are there. They expect the child to obey them. Over life’s other spheres, they supported the child’s autonomy, allowing them freedom to make their own decisions.

 Actually, I don't think this is "ironic" at all - it's consistent with what I've seen with my DD's friends over the years - many parents are either too strict (too many restrictions) or too lenient (not enough rules), but the child who's having the most trouble right now has a mom who alternates between grounding her and then indulging her - not the middle ground.

So...weigh in MTs....do your kids lie (most parents say their kids don't lie)?  What do they lie about and why? Whaddya think about this research?

Tags: lying, children, teens (all tags)

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  • i will say (0 / 0)

    that when i was growing up, my mom and i argued a lot.

    but i totally respected her rules and got into very little trouble. she taught me that she loved me no matter what, and that it was ok to express my anger.

    this allowed us more of an open forum, a place for discussion, even heated. so i can completely see how a teenager who argues about the rules is still more likely to follow them than one who just says "ok" but then still does whatever they want.

    thanks for the diary, very interesting. next time a telemarketer calls, i will make sure i just say "i am not interested," though that is usually what i do anyway. that, along with, "my number is on the national do-not-call list, let me talk to your surpervisor." :)

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

    by lorin on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:40:50 PM PDT

  • I'm not sure that being polite (0 / 0)

    is the same thing as lying.  In our social development lab, we actually had a task for kids where we'd say we were going to give them a really fun present, give them something crappy, and then videotape their responses.  The kids who didn't cover the disappointment well were more likely to be experiencing social rejection at school.  "Lying" to spare someone else's feelings is pretty different than lying to get away with something.  

    I'm pretty sure DS hasn't always told me the truth, but I think it's been mostly by omission.  Who knows?

    Welcome to the Front Page, Sue.... Good job!

    • Interesting about the social rejection stuff (0 / 0)

      Perhaps a large part of being "good" socially is jut being aware of the feelings of those around you.  I'm trying to work on this with my 3-year-old, with little success.  It's hard to explain to him why it's not OK to say (in a truly horrendous tone of voice) "I don't like my dinner.  It's yucky and I hate it."  I want him to be able to tell me when he doesn't like something, but he needs to be polite about it.  I'm not quite sure how to coach him on that.

  • "Most parents say ... (0 / 0)

    their kids don't lie." See, I find this the most fascinating thing. If almost everybody lies about something, some time, how can peeps think their own kids, esp. teens, don't lie? Do parents of teens really, really believe their kids don't lie?

    I know someone whose teen had the most convoluted story about how he came to own a bong, but does not actually smoke pot. He claimed that taking the bong to parties - but  not smoking -  was just an attempt to look cool.  His parents believed him, even though he got grounded for owning the bong.

    If that just seems nuts from the outside (and we know for sure that's it a bit of a lie), how do such smart parents get to this place?

    Omigosh, it honestly just occured to me that his explanation was a bit like Bill Clinton's, and no one believed that! (He's way too young to actually remember Bill's claim).

    • most common explanation (0 / 0)

      When I interviewed girls in juvenile hall to see if they would be a good fit in a group home, they almost always said, "I was just holding it for a friend" when I asked about drug charges.

      I think people lie when telling the truth is too costly, in whatever currency matters to them.  I know I am too intrusive with DS at times.  He copes by ignoring me, or saying "I don't know," especially when I ask stuff about his friends.  It brings me up short and I realize, That's not really any of my business, I just want to know.    

      • asdf (0 / 0)

        I can see that about drug charges. Maybe it's plausible, so it plants some seeds of doubt about guilt, so why not try. In the case of the family I know, I just don't get how the parents believed it so easily. I find it baffling.

        I hear you about getting "I don't know" from a teen. A time honored dodge ;). Your ds is lucky that you have those good boundaries, which isn't easy!

  • Oh boy (0 / 0)

    How timely. 11 year old Alex was just caught lying about his homework for the third time this school year. Oh yes, is he ever whipper snap sharp and clearly takes pride in pulling the wool over our eyes and his teacher's eyes. Shoot me now!

  • My little liar. (0 / 0)

    Dominic, my 4 yo, has been lying about things for a while now. He lies mainly so he doesn't get in trouble.  
    About a month ago our guest toilet got backed up. My SO tells me that he thinks that Dominic might have put something in the toilet, so I asked him, "Dominic, did you put something other than poop or paper in the toilet?" Dominic says, "I did, but I didn't" So then I say, "Well, if you didn't, but you did, what did you put down there?" Then he says, "Well, I didn't put a yogurt cup in the toilet." It's really cute the way he tells on himself. Sometimes he'll run up to me and say, "Mommy, I didn't draw on the wall with your lipstick." We're trying to be patient and teach him as best we can that he always needs to tell us the truth, but in the meantime, I can rely on the fact that he'll confess in the only way he knows how.

  • I lied regularly in HS (0 / 0)

    Mostly because she didn't let me date. See, if she'd been reasonable and let me date with some rules, I would have followed her rules and wouldn't have had to lie. But she sort of left me no choice, you know? And I was a "good" kid who worked hard, never got into trouble, and rarely argued with my mom. So I totally get this article.

    DS is a typical four-year old who lies badly or tells on himself. When he was just over two, he demonstrated his ability to lie shamelessly-- one evening I told him it was time to go home from the park, and he pitched a giant fit. He kicked and screamed and struggled as I strapped him into the car seat. He kicked his dirty shoes against the back of the car seat and got it all muddy. As I drove away, he looked at the car seat and said, "Oh no . . . all muddy."

    "Yes," I said. "You got it all muddy when you kicked it with your shoes. That's why you shouldn't throw temper tantrums."

    "I didn't get muddy, Daddy got muddy."

    "WHAT? Are you trying to tell me that Daddy got the seat all muddy?"

    "Yes," he replied, with certainty.

    "Well, why don't I just call him up, and see if he got the seat muddy. We'll straighten this out right now." I picked up her cell phone and called DH.

    While the phone was ringing, DS asked, "Daddy on telephone?"

    "Yes, I'm waiting for him to answer so I can ask him if he got the seat muddy."

    DS sat for a second.

    "I naughty," he said. "I got muddy."

    When we arrived home, DH wouldn't believe it when I told him that his little 2-year-old boy was trying to frame him for the muddying of the seat. But the next day, DH got to hear it straight from the horse's mouth when he said to DS, "I heard you got the seat muddy, and tried to blame me."

    DS went back to his original story. "I didn't get muddy," he said. "Daddy got muddy."

    "WHAT?" DH said. "You're saying I got the seat muddy?!"

    "Yes," said DS, sounding even more confident. "Daddy got it muddy."

  • white lies... (0 / 0)

    i agree with many have said here that there is a difference between kindness and lies.  however, it probably is worth noting that it might be best to teach a child why they must thank when opening a gift. you don't have to ooze with excitement if it isn't genuine.  but heartfelt thanks can be genuine for someone who took the time,thought and expense to give you a gift.  teaching a child to focus on that makes it not even a white lie. it just is another chance at teaching empathy.

    where i see trouble with white lies is the deliberate going out of your way to offer up false compliments...sort of the eddie haskell syndrome..."gee mrs cleaver that's a beautiful sweater you are wearing".  or the sweet to your face but backstabbing behind your back behavior.  most unlovely.

    great article sue!

  • DD4 just started this (0 / 0)

    Recently she has been telling harmless lies -- like that she finished her cereal or blew her nose upstairs when I asked her to. I use it as a chance to talk about honesty, and it sounds like she is right on target developmentally! Hopefully we can parent her so that she doesn't become like I was as a kid. I'd lie all the time, many times a day, about big things or little things. It came to a head when I was a sophomore in high school. I had a bad habit of opening my Christmas presents when they came (my mom would order from catalogs, and since I was home alone until she came home from work, well...idle hands, right?), and resealing them. Finally the guilt was too much and I decided I couldn't lie anymore. Ever since then I haven't lied really.

  • Pathological liar checking in (0 / 0)

    Hmmm.
    I totally get the brutal honesty is not compatible with civil society.  But I know in my case that lying is almost always done out of a fear of confrontation.  I don't know how to handle confrontation, or to retain my sense of self-worth in the face of criticism from those I respect.  

    I think part of this comes from how I was raised, especially by my mother, who is a strong person but hates confrontation.  A lot more of it comes from personal cognitives weirdness, and in that respect I'm more like my dad.  

    I am terrified to lie about things and DS catch me.  I am getting better, slowly, but he's growing up so fast!

  • lying and imagination (0 / 0)

    I'm planning to read that article to find out more about what is going on with my kid (age 3).  In the past month, he's moved from the concrete world to the abstract world, with most hilarious and horrendous results.  He's enormously into imaginitive play, with a whole cast of imaginitive friends he plays with.  He talks to them and makes up stories about them (and other) things constantly.  It's really funny to listen to him and he's clearly having so much fun with it.

    As you might have guessed, the other side of this is that he's lying.  He mostly lies to get out of trouble, blaming things he's done on his younger brother (even when I've seen him do it).  We've talked about telling the truth and lying, and sometimes I can get him to fess up, so I think that part is going OK.  I know kids lie and that's just part of it.  

    The part I'm having trouble with is figuring out what do when he tells "stories" that could be true, when aren't.  Like how police officers came to his school the other day when there was a power outage and fixed all the lights.  Do I call him on lying?  Ask him if it's pretend or real?  I know it's just imaginitive stuff, but what do you when that becomes lying?  I remember being a kid and once telling my mom a lie to see what she would do.  I told her I saw a tiger outside our house.  She said something like, "Oh, really?" and I was so confused by her reaction, since I thought she was letting me get away with a lie.  

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