Mother Talkers

Blessing a Baby

by Erika

Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 12:15:51 PM PDT

My father was a practicing Catholic when he met my mother, who was a devout Jehovah's Witness.

In order for them to be together, religion took a backseat in their lives. I was not baptized and I didn't attend CCD. I grew up knowing that one side of my family did not celebrate birthdays or Christmas, and it didn't much bother me. But as I got older, it got weirder.

Older relatives-- I'm talking grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins-- would mention casually that I wasn't going to heaven because I was never baptized. Or that my parents weren't really married because it wasn't sanctioned by the church. Or that I wasn't going to survive Armageddon and spend eternity in paradise because I hadn't embraced the one and only true religion.

In short, they freaked me out.

So when I was 6 years old and set to be the flower girl in my uncle's wedding, I believed my Catholic relatives when they told me I couldn't participate unless I was baptized. So I asked to be baptized the day of the wedding ceremony, and my parents honored my wishes.

In high school, I attended Pentecostal church services with friends and studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses. Then I had my first communion so I could have a special quinceañera Mass for my 15th birthday-- a time-honored tradition for Catholic Latinas.

In the end, I never bought into organized religion. There were too many contradictions and restrictions. I believe in spirituality and strive to be a good person, but I have no desire to attend church. I respect my parents for letting me figure it out by myself and not foisting any rigid views upon me. But I also wish they had protected me more from my well-meaning relatives who filled my head with guilt and shame and confusion all those years.

Now I find myself worrying about my daughter. She is 3, and she hasn't been baptized. But my Catholic relatives-- who love Maya to bits-- make it a point to ask: When will she be baptized?

I don't think they are trying to be confrontational or judgmental. For Mexican Catholics, baptizing a baby is just automatic. And I don't want to seem argumentative or disrespectful, so I have tended to brush it off with a "We'll see," or "When she is old enough to express interest in being baptized."

Soon she'll understand enough that they just might start asking her directly, and I have no idea how to handle it. Part of me thinks I will freak out on the first person to do it, as the last thing I want is for my daughter to face a lifetime of confusion over the "right" religious path. And god help them if they ever tell her that her parents aren't "really" married. Things could get mighty ugly.

So I was really intrigued by this story about the growing trend of baby blessing ceremonies.   Interfaith and nonreligious couples are increasingly opting for personal ceremonies in order to welcome their babies into the world:

Baby blessings can help fill the need for ritual, says Macomb. "If you’re not religious, or don’t belong to a specific religious community, you still have that need."

Their rise in popularity may be driven in part by some members of the post-baby boomer generation who have bypassed religious institutions and are experimenting in ways that make sense to them spiritually, said Richard Flory, a research associate at the Center for Religion and Civic Culture at the University of Southern California.

"It usually comes out of a dissatisfaction of what they were brought up with," he said. "They don’t want to participate in (religious) institutions. But what they do want is to be part of some spiritual activity that meets their understanding, to create some sort of spiritual identity for themselves."

Baby blessings can take many forms. They can be held outdoors. You can light candles, sing songs, read poems, vow to love and protect your child, even baptize them outside of a church.

I must say I like the idea of some form of ritual or formal welcoming. We are hoping to have a second (and final) child. I will definitely consider the possibility of our very own baby blessing. We could include our older daughter and verbalize our devotion to our children, our intent to love them and guide them through life as best we can. It would be a public declaration that we're a family.

Have any of you held baby blessing ceremonies? How did you handle interfaith issues? If you baptized or christened your children, how did you come to that decision? For those of you that don't belong to a church, how have you explained faith and religion to your children?

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Tags: baptism, christening, blessing, ceremony, religion, faith (all tags)

Permalink | 73 comments

  • re: blessing the baby (0 / 0)

    DH is a recovering Catholic. I'm a lapsed Protestant. We like to go to our local UU church at holidays but really arent all that into organized religion. We don't have much in the way of family to weigh in on the 'are you baptizing' issue.

    We also wanted to welcome our girls into our family so both daughters were blessed at a Buddhist ceremony, in China, within days of being adopted. It was private, personal, and for us, deeply moving. Both were given gold charms for health & happiness that were blessed too, and surprise! with DD #2 i was gifted with one, too.

    The explanation of "faith" takes place during teachable moments and has a lot to do with social justice and putting belief into everyday action, as opposed to going to church.

    by poppygirl on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:12:08 PM PDT

    • sounds lovely (0 / 0)

      The ceremony, the charms, the memory.

      I also like your approach to explaining faith a lot!

      by Erika on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 02:27:19 PM PDT

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      • re: ceremonies & faith (0 / 0)

        thanks, Erika!

        I guess my philosopy is that youve gotta walk it like you talk it, or you'll lose that beat!

        That's why we hauled a HUGE suitcase full of medical supplies to the charitable foundation that took care of DD #2  and spent 2 days there helping take care of the babies. (DD #2 had long since moved back to a regular foster home for not-too-sick kids), so it was a REAL eye opener for DD #1, who is a typical American kid in many ways. I think the entire experience made her more thoughtful & mindful on many levels and we are grateful that we could give her the experience-ceremony and all. She loved it to the point that i'm looking for a local Buddhist place for us to go as a family.

        by poppygirl on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 06:25:38 PM PDT

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  • I like the idea (0 / 0)

    In my faith tradition (raised Catholic, now hanging out in the United Church of Christ with my husband, the pastor), baptism is a sacrament and one to be taken seriously.  It is a covenant made between the parents, the church community and God.  I do not feel it's something to do lightly or for show.  

    I commend you and your DH for not going ahead with a baptism just because it's what is expected.  My husband has had people come into his church for the day, just for the ceremony and without any intentions to raise the child in the church.  Frankly, that bugs me a little bit.  (He is a much more forgiving soul and sees this as a kindness he can extend to the family - this is why he is the pastor and I am not.)

    I do, however, love the baby blessing idea.  What a wonderful way to present a new life to the community/family and to ask that community to be a part of that child's life.  You can incorporate what is important to your own values and nothing else.  I think it's a great alternative to participating in a religious ceremony if you're not actually religious.

    Jen

    by MrsPastor on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 06:03:47 PM PDT

    • ok - I already hate my response (0 / 0)

      I don't like the phrase "for show", but I'm not quite sure how to clarify.  I think what I was trying to say is that I disagree with having a baptism just for the sake of saying you had one, without any thought to the commitment or promises you make to raise the child in the church.  (Basically if you only feel like church is where you go to get married or baptise you kids)

      Jen

      by MrsPastor on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 06:06:58 PM PDT

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      • Oh, but it could be worse! (0 / 0)

        24 years ago, when my daughter was born, I was "never" going to set foot in the Catholic Church again, and I was perfectly happy as a member (and choir director) of the local American Baptist Community.  They do a Baby Dedication service, since baptism is freely chosen after the age of consent (13 or later, at least then).  My parents, bless them, did not push for RC baptism, but my own superstitions (LIMBO!) wouldn't let me get away without it!  So, on a snowy Sunday in February, Moe was "dedicated" at the Baptist Church during the worship service, and baptized that afternoon at the Catholic Church two blocks over.  I certainly didn't tell either church what we were doing, much less why!

        by ChocolateChris on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:07:31 PM PDT

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        • We belong to an American Baptist (0 / 0)

          church, and we did the baby dedication with our twins. It's a nice recognition of the birth, the family, and the desire to raise the child in the church but there's no baptism.

          I think it's nice to have something to sort of give everyone a chance to come together and celebrate this wonderful new life. So I can understand the desire to have something when you are not part of a faith community.

          by Lisa in Austin on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:29:34 PM PDT

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      • Or doing it for the sake of the in-laws (0 / 0)

        which I don't think is a valid reason either, even if their feelings are hurt otherwise.

        by mpg on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:55:04 AM PDT

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    • my feelings exactly (0 / 0)

      that's what bothers me about baptizing her, I feel it would be an insincere thing to do since I have no intention of raising her as a member of the church.

      by Erika on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 09:25:25 PM PDT

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    • Eeeeeeeeeeee!!! Babies! (0 / 0)

      I always loved going to church when there was a baptism.  Such cute babies!  And the minister would parade around with the baby, showing it off to everybody: "Behold a child of God!"  I am smiling now just thinking of it.  
      It is wonderful way to introduce and integrate the child into the faith community.  Now I am wondering if there is some baby blessing thing they do at my UU congregation.  I have not seen any, and I miss it.

      by lonespark on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:52:34 AM PDT

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  • I'm a practicing Lutheran (0 / 0)

    And we have infant baptism, with the understanding that you rededicate yourself to your faith when you are confirmed, at around 15, and have the chance to understand what it all meant.  I had DS baptised in the hospital when he was six hours old and we didn't know if he'd make it through the night.  It was something I knew my family would want, and it felt right to me, because at the scariest moment of my life, I really felt my grandmothers, who'd passed away, were giving me strength.

    Many Christian churches require the godparents to not only be Christian, but belong to the same denomination.  I guess that's their business, but I don't agree with that.  We'd planned to have my brothers be DS's godparents, although I know my youngest brother doesn't believe any more.  For me, it was the tradition of having aunts & uncles be godparents.  But DS's godparents turned out to be my MIL, my step-FIL, and my best friend, who were the ones with us there that night, even though FIL & BF are not Christians.  I couldn't care less.  What they have promised me is that they will always keep DS in their hearts, look out for him, guide him, support him, and be important people in his life.

    We had a baptism affirmation in my church when DS was nine months old and his health permitted us to have him out in public.  That was a wonderful ceremony, because all the family who hadn't been able to meet him were there, and we could celebrate together what a miracle it was that DS survived.  That's why I think a baby blessing or naming ceremony, no matter what the spiritual beliefs, sounds fabulous.  What child couldn't use more loving people giving their word to be part of his or her life?  DS's baptism was pretty straight-forward Lutheran, but how nice it sounds to customize a ceremony for your heritage, beliefs, or experiences.  I say, any excuse for a great celebration!  

    by cynmill on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 07:49:23 PM PDT

    • Catholic Confirmation (0 / 0)

      is pretty much the same as Lutheran, so baptism isn't all that much different between the Lutheran faith and Catholic faith- well, less guilt if you DON'T baptize if you're Catholic (the l-word was mentioned upthread).

      I remember being very paranoid about baptism not happening soon enough, and with Lily born in lent I had even longer to wait. I had my Lutheran Pastor Bridesmaid Friend tell me how to do an "emergency" baptism like she had to do at some hospitals (sad). I chilled after DD was about a month old, but was seriously relieved after the Baptism was over.

      by lilianna28 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 08:44:46 PM PDT

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      • no more limbo! (0 / 0)

        Don't know of it's official yet, but I do remember hearing that the Catholic Church is doing away with limbo for unbaptized babies. Instead, they will go straight to heaven now:

        John Haldane, a professor of philosophy at St Andrews University and a consulter to the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture, said that the issue of limbo was "something of a medieval curiosity" that no longer preoccupies people. He said that the reason the Catholic Church was clarifying its position was that people still wrongly perceived heaven as a place and not as a state of being.

        "The idea of limbo conjures up the image of God as some kind of government bureaucrat who says to people, not just babies, ‘Sorry, you don’t have your passport stamped with baptism, you’ll have to wait over there’.

        by Erika on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 09:30:25 PM PDT

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      • A difference (I think) (0 / 0)

        is that many Lutheran churches would let you have Catholics or anybody be godparents, but Catholics can only have other Catholics, correct?  My SIL is Catholic, and when my niece was born, rather than say nothing, or say they needed to pick godparents who were Catholic, she told me "We picked someone whose lifestyle and values are more in line with ours."  Oooh-kaaay! I should have said "Suck it!"

        by cynmill on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:22:25 AM PDT

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        • one (0 / 0)

          You need to have one practicing Catholic, because the idea is that if you die, the godparent will make sure the child is raised Catholic. The other godparent has to be a baptized Christian, but not Catholic.

          Yeah, that's not a very nice way for you SIL to put it.  

          by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:25:05 AM PDT

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          • Parish differences? (0 / 0)

            Perhaps it depends on the parish and the priest? As I said below...I chose a Muslim godfather for my daughter. His wife was baptised Christian, and my sister in law (Catholic) was also a godmother. But the priest didn't ask at all. His only comment on reading the names was "Kemal? That's not Irish!". When I asked if it was a problem that the godfather wasn't Christian, the priest just told me that the godparents had to represent God to my child. I was happy with that.

            by aussieyank on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:39:24 PM PDT

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  • We weren't sure what to do (0 / 0)

    This reflects our different religious backgrounds (Catholic, Jewish), but also that we don't practice or observe either. Because I believe that a Catholic baptism means you're going to raise your kid Catholic, that was not appropriate for us.

    Then on the bris side of things, I was not down with the circumcision part of the ceremony(the public aspect ... we did do a circumcision in the hospital). So then I began to research how to do just the naming aspect of the bris. When my husband was not enthusiastic about that either, I realized that there was no way I could do this 9 days after the birth on my own - I was really shooting in the dark making it a meaningful ceremony. If his relatives lived nearby and had been able to take that on, we would have done it though.

    Now I want to do a naming ceremony this summer when we are with his extended family, but am a little afraid that it'll seem flaky or disrespectful or something. Not a full bris, not on time. I don't know. It just feels weird to do nothing, but we're stuck!

    by RachelD on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 08:02:29 PM PDT

    • yeah, there's that (0 / 0)

      I know if we do go ahead with a blessing ceremony that some of my relatives will no doubt talk smack about how it's all meaningless unless it's done "the right way." Which is why it would be for us, not for them.

      I am guessing, though, that your DH's extended family would love to be part of a naming ceremony, since they couldn't be there so soon after his birth.

      by Erika on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 09:33:06 PM PDT

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    • similar feelings (0 / 0)

      We're both atheists, but I was raised Christian (Catholic or Protestant, depending on the year) and my husband was raised Jewish.  We want our kids to have some ideas of organized religion, and tend to lean towards the Jewish side for this since it's a minority religion.  So we thought about doing some sort of non-religious Jewish inspired baby naming, but ended up deciding it might feel "flaky and disrespectful."  We ended up doing nothing, which we were comfortable with.

      I think the baby blessing thing is great for people without a strong religious affiliation who really want a formal way to welcome kids into the world.  I didn't really feel the need for anything "official" in our family, and when I realized I would be doing it just because other people might be expecting something, decided not to bother.

      by Treena on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:08:18 AM PDT

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      • Same here (0 / 0)

        We're non-religious and toyed aroud with doing some sort of ceremony--my mom was pushing for a UU ceremony though she's not UU herself. When I realized I was just trying to give other people what they expected, I said, forget about it. Since neither of our families are religious, it's unlikely DS wil lbe asked about our decision, though.

        Did you know he's never been inside a church of any kid? Going on 5 years now. Maybe we'll try to set some sort of record . . .  :)

        by minnmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 05:17:01 AM PDT

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  • Our thing (0 / 0)

    I am Catholic, husband was raised Lutheran and is pretty much a spiritualist, not a religious person. So when it came time to discuss, he was wonderful with his no-contest Catholic baptism. He had a few reasons too: 1) finding a priest to marry us in a Catholic Mass was difficult because he wasn't Catholic and 2) It's about a BAZILLION times easier to "become" a different Christian than it is to become Catholic. That is some hard learnin' for a while if you're not raised Catholic.

    Here's my question to you, Erika- is it a matter of principle that you do not want to Baptize Maya? If you're comfortable with a Blessing or Ceremony, is there some reason you're uncomfortable with that Blessing being a more traditional Baptism? If faith teaches us anything, it's that it's just words if you don't believe in them. Catholic Baptisms can be really beautiful, and obviously important to people who love you and you love.

    I'm not sure I wanted the full on Catholic Mass Wedding ceremony, but it was important as a sacrament to my folks. I don't plan on raising Lily to only know Catholic (or even Christian) faiths. In this, though, it made me feel like she had a closer bond to God, which I liked. But I totally get it if you don't feel at all connected to that part of your family life, why you wouldn't want to.

    I have a story. My friend is Jewish, her husband is Catholic. Before they even got pregnant, my friend agreed to let her husband baptize the baby- and 9 months into the pregnancy she said "no way." He was so pissed, it was such a shit move. I'm fairly certain there was a parent-less ceremony one weekend while her husband took her out on a "date" and let his parents watch the baby over the weekend. Sad for the Dad, really, because there was a firm agreement in place before conception even. Sometimes things are super important to some people and you don't even know it.

    by lilianna28 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 08:58:15 PM PDT

    • as I said upthread (0 / 0)

      I just feel it would be insincere to baptize Maya when I have no intention of raising her in the church.

      I also feel like in a way it would be taking sides in my family-- you know, that the Catholic side is the "right" side when it comes to faith-- when I don't feel that way at all.

      It really was a strange dynamic for me growing up, that push and pull of right and wrong, real and fake. In hindsight, I really wish I hadn't been put in the middle like that.

      That's too bad about your friends. DH is way indifferent about the whole thing-- I think he would do whatever makes me happy.

      by Erika on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 09:38:58 PM PDT

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  • what's the harm in waiting? (0 / 0)

    I wasn't baptized in the Lutheran church until I was 12. My mom didn't even start taking me to church (Dad is an atheist) until I was about 3 and we attended a service with my future godmother and I apparently piped up in piercing tones asking, "Mommy, who is this God person?" So, really, the whole church experience for me was one of education, and I have to say, it never really stirred much in the way of faith in an organized congregation. I'm grateful for the educational experience, and as I'm of Norwegian ancestry (paternal grandfather), it's nice to "belong" to the same denomination, but that's about as far as it goes with me.

    DH is even less "believing" than I am. He's also Orthodox by baptism and, I suppose, tenuous cultural attachment. So we have that "conflict" off the bat - which faith. I use the quotation marks because it really isn't any sort of argument at all. Needless to say, Jess hasn't been baptized. My mom has actually made a bigger deal out of this than MIL has; my mom was a bit shocked when I told her that I had no intention of introducing Jess to religion until she started asking the God questions. I found it a bit ironic, considering my upbringing.

    MIL hasn't said a peep about it; I'm sure part of it is that we'd struggle to find a Macedonian Orthodox church that would baptize Jess with me as a Lutheran. But I can only surmise that, since I've never even broached the subject with her.

    by Rachel on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:48:14 PM PDT

    • corollary (0 / 0)

      Posted before I finished my thought. I suppose the real question isn't "what's the harm in waiting?" but rather, "What's the harm in waiting for Maya to express her wishes on the subject?" If it comes from Maya, then so much the better.

      FWIW, I grew up in an extended family of a bunch of different faiths and nobody ever had a problem with me going to different services as the mood and opportunity struck. I used to enjoy very much going to Catholic Mass with my very dear (older) cousin whenever she visted us in town. I enjoyed watching the ritual and liturgy as well as spending time with my cousin, whom I admired (and still admire!) very much.

      by Rachel on Mon Feb 18, 2008 at 11:51:26 PM PDT

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      • wondering... (0 / 0)

        how it works to leave it up to the child.  has anyone had experience with this?

        i was in same boat as erika with my dd.  although i wanted to baptize my dd but the ex and i never agreed on a church to join, so it never happened.

        now that dd is 17 i wish i had joined the catholic church and simply exposed her to the religion that was a part of her family's history.  ideally i would have exposed her to other spiritual paths. my question/concern is how  does spirtuality grow within a child if they have never had exposure to any religion? i have tried several times over last few years to get my dd interested.  3 years ago we made a concerted effort and attended several different services, nothing caught on with dd. although she asked quite a few answers when she attended several of her friends bar and bat mitvahs.

        by parentalunit1 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:16:23 AM PDT

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        • Neither DH nor I (0 / 0)

          were baptized when we decided to get married.  And, we really wanted something traditional in a church setting (and so did both our families).  My only experience w/church was Catholic, even though I wasn't raised Catholic.  DH was Lutheran/Church of Christ.  

          So, we found a nice Episcopal church that was a nice compromise of our faith backgrounds.  We were baptized together in the church on the Eve of Easter the year we got married.  Both of our children were baptized in the same faith.  I've been a UU for the past 3 1/2 years, but I feel the pull of the Episcopal faith calling me back.  I guess it's never too late, eh?

          "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

          by 1plain1peanut on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:21:56 AM PDT

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          • did (0 / 0)

            Did you make a decision on leaving the UU church yet?

            by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:23:35 AM PDT

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            • Not exactly (0 / 0)

              I still have time.  I'm committed to teach until the third week of May, so I'm still going... really only when I'm scheduled to teach.  It's so hard to get motivated and out the door (and I know I've told you about this before) by myself w/the two kiddos...especially in the winter.  

              I don't know how your UU church is, but ours winds down in the summer and the regular ministers aren't even there... as all the summer services are lay-led.  Also, our church is going through some changes... one of the ministers (my favorite) is leaving effective June 1st to move closer to family in Oregon and we are getting a new RE director.  

              My plan is to check out the Episcopal church 15 minutes west out in the country.  One of my beefs about the church we got married in closer into the city, is that there's a lot of wealth there.  Everyone's dressed to the nines and I feel like I don't fit in there.  Anyway, that's the plan... check out the old church built at the turn of the century (think stained glass and carved wood) and see how I like it in the summer.  :)

              "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

              by 1plain1peanut on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:31:28 AM PDT

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              • cool (0 / 0)

                That's cool, take it slow.  One of the regrets I had was joining the UU church, and getting too involved, too quickly.

                Our UU was like that in the summer too, wound down to a halt.  And UU churches, like all churches I guess really but I think more so than others, are so dependent on the minister.

                by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:38:39 AM PDT

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                • OMG (0 / 0)

                  Me too.  It seems like I joined, and then 2 months later they were talking to me about teaching.  I was just telling my mother about how many volunteer opportunities there are there.  Don't get me wrong... they are all great... lots of social justice type things.  But oh boy- you can get yourself pretty over-involved if you don't learn the fine art of saying no.  

                  I've learned my lesson and won't repeat it if we do decide to start attending services at the Episcopal church.  

                  "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

                  by 1plain1peanut on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:07:27 AM PDT

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                  • me too (0 / 0)

                    I think I was helping out with some summer RE literally two months after I joined.  I also just joined to quickly (signing the book).  I should have just been a "friend" of the congregation for longer time before I made that decision.

                    by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:12:00 AM PDT

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                    • Ah, yes... (0 / 0)

                      the book.  Signed it right after my first "Getting to know UU" class.  I should have waited as well.  

                      I hope my posts don't come across as anti-UU.  It's a wonderful place full of wonderful people.  I'm just yearning for the religious ritual of the Episcopal church.  

                      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

                      by 1plain1peanut on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:15:10 AM PDT

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                      • I did too! (0 / 0)

                        And it's not like they were forceful about it (could a UU be forceful?).  Shame on me.

                        I hope my posts don't come across as anti-UU either.  I think it is a kind and loving church filled with great people.

                        by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 11:29:38 AM PDT

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        • rare (0 / 0)

          I remember reading that it's very rare for children who are unchurched to seek out a church on their own when they are adults. Now I'm not sure what the definition of spirituality is and whether they seek that or not.  I also noticed in my old UU church almost everyone was from some faith tradition as a child.

          I can even see a difference between my husband and myself.  I went to Catholic school and all the way up to Confirmation and I feel a strong draw to go back to church.  My husband was baptized and received Communion, but he was never confirmed, didn't go to Catholic school and didn't go to CCD after 2nd grade.  And well, let's just say, he's not feeling it as strongly as me.

          by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:22:14 AM PDT

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          • part of my regret.. (0 / 0)

            is i didn't provide any religion.  i was deeply conflicted about the catholic church for many years.  however in past 10 years i find a yearning to return. the flavor of catholic is now different for me due to joesph campbell, eastern religions and native american spirituality.  i think i have compacted all that into an appreciation of the ritual and meditative feeling i have when attended mass.

            i just don't know how to get my dd on that journey and fear she will not have any background that could help guide her.  
            so for valentine's day i gave her a book of teachings of the dalai lama :)

            by parentalunit1 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:16:25 AM PDT

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            • try (0 / 0)

              How old is your daughter?  You could invite her somewhere with you, either Catholic or wherever, just casually, for now.  I would say it's never too late.  It sounds like she is open to learning. Maybe start on a holiday or something like Easter?  Even if you both just went once in a while, it would give her some frame of reference and who knows, it might strike a chord within her.  : )

              by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:43:51 AM PDT

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              • over the years.. (0 / 0)

                we have attended many services, mostly episcopalian. dh and i were married in an episcopal church.  2 years ago we went "church slumming"...in other words we tried many many services.  we have always attended an easter service, generally catholic.  so far nothing has struck a chord in her. but i keep talkin and draggin her from time to time :)   i think when i make my move it will help...at least i hope so.

                by parentalunit1 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:03:07 AM PDT

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        • I wouldn't say it was totally left up to me (0 / 0)

          Mom did take us to Sunday School as often as she could blast us out of bed (with most un-Sabbath like threats!) and we did go to services occasionally. Mom started taking me when I started asking about God, so I did grow up with the framework. When I was 6, Mom asked the pastor over and we had a talk about baptism. I didn't participate in the discussion at all, so Mom and the pastor decided to leave thing lie. The discussion came up again when I was 12, and this time I agreed it was a pretty good idea. So, I guess you could say Mom set up the parameters and the decisions flowed from there.

          by Rachel on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:55:57 PM PDT

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  • Insincere here.... (0 / 0)

    But for pragmatic reasons. I was raised Unitarian (except for a brief flirt with Southern Baptist when I was fourteen as a rebellion against my mother...and it worked. I doubt I could have done anything to shock her more!), and my husband was raised Catholic. I never in a million years thought that I would allow my children to be baptised and "raised" Catholic. But I am. Despite the fact that neither my husband nor I really believe a word of it. Why? Because then our kids can go to Catholic schools. Here in Oz, you can go to public schools, private schools, or Catholic schools. The public schools (and I'm talking high school here) are very dependent on area. They can be good, and they can be really bad. If your child is out of the norm, they may not be great. The private schools can be great. But you can pay $25000 a year (and up) for that great education. Catholic schools can be great, and the price tag is much much lower. The schools thing is a very big cultural difference that I'm still working out. I'm not sure what I'll do. But it just made sense to me to keep the option open for my kids, given that the entire family is Catholic. If I hadn't baptised them, that door would essentially be closed.

    So there's my pragmatic, rational view on why I baptised my kids. And for what it's worth, I chose Muslim godparents (we have a very flexible, liberal priest), and the ceremony was gorgeous. Father Joe talked more about welcoming the baby into our family and community than about religion. Which I appreciated. I'm glad that I did it. It made everyone happy and no one unhappy. And it kept some more education choices open to my kids. All wins as far as I can see.

    by aussieyank on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:23:51 AM PDT

    • had friends here in Melbourne (0 / 0)

      who pretty much baptized their kids Catholic for the same reason. Both nominally Catholic, both quite open about the fact that they want to keep their options open for Catholic primary school.

      by Rachel on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:53:10 PM PDT

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      • Yup... (0 / 0)

        When you're talking about up to $20 000 per year that you could potentially be saving...it's hard not to take the pragmatic approach. Having said that, if the priest had been at all dogmatic and weird about anything, I would have refused to have anything to do with it. The fact that he was warm, open and friendly, eased my fears, and told me that "the Catholic church has an image problem...we'll take them however we can get them!", meant that I could do it without freaking out. Of course, my mother in law said that I looked like I was expecting to be struck by lightning at any second...

        by aussieyank on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:35:43 PM PDT

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        • the priest (0 / 0)

          who did our friends' younger daughter's baptism was a lot like your Father Joe - very relaxed. In fact, I was wicked overdressed for the occasion in the audience; being from conservative upbringing, I wore a blouse and knee-length skirt and covered-toes sandals. Wicked overdressed. The wife wore denim capri pants and a sleeveless top, which was modest, compared to the godmother, who wore - no joke - a skin-tight, halter-top mini-dress (and no bra!!!).

          by Rachel on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:39:58 PM PDT

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  • ceremonies (0 / 0)

    I think baby blessings or namings or welcome to the world ceremonies are nice to have, whether one does it through a formal church or not.  

    We didn't baptize either of our kids yet, but we've decided to go back to church and now we'll be raising them Catholic.  They'll both be baptized in early April.  My oldest is 5 and my youngest is 1.5.  I agree with everyone, that it's not something I would do unless I was going to raise them Catholic.

    You could probably find a UU minister who could do a private naming ceremony or something that you design for you.

    I suspect my children have been secretly baptized already anyway.  My mother carries a bottle of Holy Water in her purse.  All you have to do to baptize a Catholic is say, "I baptize you in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit" and sprinkle some water on their head.  

    by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:18:24 AM PDT

    • I think my grandmother may have done that to me (0 / 0)

      and my sister although I have no way to confirm it.

      by mpg on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:58:23 AM PDT

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    • Baptized against your will (0 / 0)

      That reminds me of the awful story of a boy who was kidnapped from his family in the Vatican states because he was Jewish and his nanny claimed to have secretly baptized him to save his soul.  Can't have a Christian raised by Jews, so they carted him off to a monastary for the rest of his life.  Eeeek!  That sort of thing is why religion and government authority Do. Not. Mix!

      That "baptism as magic spell" thinking freaks me out, and it's why no matter how many times people explain it to me as "offering a bus ticket," LDS baptism of dead seems blasphemous and disrespectful to me.  A ceremony of holy water+recognition is a great and beautiful thing, but it should be by free choice only.

      by lonespark on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:30:37 AM PDT

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    • Update (0 / 0)

      So, this just happened tonight, we just told my FIL that we're getting the kids baptized in April

      Side note, my MIL died last August.

      So, my FIL says to my DH, "I got news for ya.  Your mother baptized baby #1"

      So to all you Catholics out there, don't doubt that your children haven't been baptized when you've been out having lunch or seeing a movie!

      by NJmom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 05:52:29 PM PDT

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      • omfg! (0 / 0)

        how are you taking this!? I'd be ropeable.

        by Rachel on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:06:36 PM PDT

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      • D'oh! (0 / 0)

        Ok, I read the postings upthread about "secret" baptisms and such, and it did not occur to me until this post, NJMom, that would my dad baptize my son on his own?? Interesting. It had never even occured to me that he, or anyone really, would go the "I baptize you in the name ...." route, even though all "good" Catholics know that anyone can do that. (Anyone who is baptized themselves, probably).

        I wouldn't mind, though. There's no harm in it, to my mind. If he feels and believes (and he probably does), that he is providing an insurance policy for my son's soul, then he would be remiss not to do it, right? How's that for some good reasoning? LOL.

        But he also should never tell me. LOL!!!

        by RachelD on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:01:49 PM PDT

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        • yep (0 / 0)

          Right. Any Catholic can do it.  Sprinkle some water on the head and just say, I baptize you in the name of the father..the son..the holy spirit.

          I'm sure my mom has done this to my kids too.  As I mentioned, she carried a bottle of Holy Water around in her purse.

          You never know! (you hope you never know!)

          by NJmom on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:06:15 AM PDT

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      • i'm sorry...but (0 / 0)

        i am laughing. i hope you aren't too upset NJ mom,but i really can just see this.  squirreling your child away for a secret baptism.  holy cow, how ARE you taking this news?  and your dh?  how is he with this?  how old are your kids?

        this reminds me of my ex MIL who is THE definition of religious right fundamentalist wingnut. i have never gotten too upset with her antics as she is ...well, she just is who she is.  when she last saw my dd she handed her a bible and marked the old testament passages regarding homosexuality.  after dd read it, she asked if she understood it, to which my dd replied, yep she got it.  this response somehow reassured my ex MIL that dd was now enlightened.  she truly believes that if you read it in the bible then it IS the final word and the subject is therefore no longer up for debate.

        these things are so outside my realm of reality that i have a hard time not just being slightly amused.  but i certainly understand if you are fuming.

        by parentalunit1 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:05:42 PM PDT

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        • Nah (0 / 0)

          Nah, I'm not upset.  We're getting them baptized anyway.  I think she just did it herself.  My husband thought it was hilarious, as did my FIL.

          As I mentioned, my MIL died in August.  I think if she was still alive I would be a little ticked.  But I also think if she were alive, we would have never found out.

          And I suspect that if we weren't getting them baptized anyway, we would have never found out about it thought!

          by NJmom on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:04:03 AM PDT

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  • Larger question (0 / 0)

    Does anybody have any experience with educating a kid in two faith traditions?

    I have half a mind to "raise" my son Jewish and Catholic. Meaning, make sure he is culturally knowledgeable and thoroughly comfortable participating in either tradition - his dad's family's history and tradition, and his mom's.

    It almost feels like, we plan to educate him socially and politically, so why not this?

    I mentioned this to some Jewish friends of ours, and they literally laughed, and asked how to reconcile the obvious difference in actual beliefs. Since I don't have specific religious beliefs myself (in spite of all of that Catholic school), I was thinking of it more as cultural education, and to provide a sense that he really "gets" his family's history. I have no idea how I would pull this off logistically (you just can't do both your bar mitzvah and your confirmation, I get that), but I also feel weird about choosing one or the other and leaving a big gap in his history.

    by RachelD on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:22:17 PM PDT

    • i think it's a GREAT idea! (0 / 0)

      but then this irish catholic girl dated lots of jewish guys...in fact hubby 1 was jewish.  my best friend grew up catholic and married a jew..they celebrate both christmas and hannakah, although they do not raise their kids in either religion.

      it might get dicey with confirmations and bat/bar mitvahs,but i can see trying it. both religions are so rich in rituals and history...i'd be tempted.

      by parentalunit1 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:54:14 PM PDT

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      • The holidays (0 / 0)

        We're doing all the major Jewish and Catholic holidays so far on our own, but I would love for ds to experience midnight Masses and Easter services, and high holy day services. I am thinking even of taking him to Mass someday during Easter and Christmas seasons, to give him a flavor of those rituals being seasons. Because, I agree, the ritual and history are beautiful. When we were in Paris, we went to Notre Dame, and while we were there, Mass started. All the tourists were asked to move to the sides as the procession of priests came in. I want ds to get it, not just as a tourist, but someone who belongs.

        Ds's godfather is my best friend, who is Israeli-American. Between him and dh, I hope we are covered as far as his Jewish education is concerned!

        by RachelD on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:32:45 PM PDT

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        • holidays work... (0 / 0)

          and first communion is a great experience....and of course the bar and bat mitvah!  can you figure out a way to both?

          my dd's only expression of interest in religion was around the time all her friends were being bar/bat mitvah'd.  it is one of those beautiful ceremonies and one of the few rituals that honors the passage from child to adult left in our society.

          by parentalunit1 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 10:14:28 PM PDT

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          • Both (0 / 0)

            I do wonder if it's possible to do both. I'd love to ask a rabbi or priest what they think of that, but to be totally honest, I would prefer an advice column for that question! I would be afraid the question would offend - although if I ask the right person, he or she might find it intersting, if still a little crazy.

            I totally remember my first communion of course, and we have really lovely formal portraits from that day. I can see why your daughter became interested in the bat mitzvah. It's an accomplishment. Maybe she could do it someday, even though she is past the traditional age.

            by RachelD on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 07:24:50 AM PDT

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    • not sure (0 / 0)

      Not sure how that would work either.  I think you would pick one or the other, then teach about the other at home.

      Or, at my old UU church, there were a lot of families with two religious backgrounds.  So they went UU.  That particular church had services for Easter, Christmas as well as the major Jewish holidays.

      by NJmom on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:09:24 AM PDT

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      • UU books (0 / 0)

        I have two books on UU, and I'm reading them. But I have the feeling it won't feel the same as participating in the "home" religions.

        And after reading your posts and 1p1p's, I won't be signing "the book" until I feel ready to commit, if we go that route.

        I just want ds to feel as comfortable in synagogues and Catholic churches as we do, but not sure how to get there.

        by RachelD on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:23:23 PM PDT

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    • My two best friends (0 / 0)

      are Jewish, married to Lutherans, raising their kids "Jewtheran," as they call it. Which means the kids are technically Jewish and will be bar- and bat mitvahed eventually. But in the meantime, they do Christmas in addition to Hannukah and Easter as well as Passover. The kids are young, and their parents not very observant, so they just roll with it. My friend has told her daughter (the only one of the kids old enough to get it and ask questions) that Daddy's family believes x and so, and this is what WE believe. And one of the kids is big into Santa, which his mom is neither encouraging nor discouraging, figuring it will pass.

      by minnmom on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:33:28 AM PDT

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      • That's kind of what we're doing (0 / 0)

        Starting with doing all the holidays, and seeing where else we can go with it in the future. Interesting about Santa ... I didn't say a word about Santa this year, but next year I'll probably do what your friend is doing. I'm just hoping to figure it out so that he has the option of doing a bar mitzvah if he'd like to.

        by RachelD on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:38:04 PM PDT

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        • We're also focused on holidays now (0 / 0)

          My husband was raised Jewish and I was raised Christian, and our main goal is exposing our kids to both religions.  So we try to focus on holidays, and we try to observe them with family members who are practicing the religion.  We're not sure yet where we'll go from here, but we'll probably just keep things as is unless we see a real reason for formal religious education.  If we do go that route, it would likely be through Humanistic Judaism, which you might want to look into.  It basically teaches the history, holidays, and rituals of Judaism, without the focus on supernatural.  So if you did that for Judaism, it wouldn't necessarily conflict with Christian religious education.

          by Treena on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 02:48:12 AM PDT

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