Mother Talkers

Interdietary Dating

Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:16:34 AM PDT

Cross-posted on Fussbucket

Should dietary preferences dictate love? According to this article in the NY Times, some people simply can't make a relationship work without a meeting of the minds (or stomachs) over food.

Sharing meals has always been an important courtship ritual and a metaphor for love. But in an age when many people define themselves by what they will eat and what they won’t, dietary differences can put a strain on a romantic relationship. The culinary camps have become so balkanized that some factions consider interdietary dating taboo.

People do take their food rules seriously. Some maybe too seriously.

No-holds-barred carnivores, for example, may share the view of Anthony Bourdain, who wrote in his book "Kitchen Confidential" that "vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans ... are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit."

It's hard to imagine Bourdain shacked up with a PETA activist. And likewise.

Returning the compliment, many vegetarians say they cannot date anyone who eats meat. Vegans, who avoid eating not just animals but animal-derived products, take it further, shivering at the thought of kissing someone who has even sipped honey-sweetened tea.

I could see how someone who feels strongly about being a vegan or a vegetarian could be opposed to dating a meat-eater. It's a political and moral thing. I look at James Carville and Mary Matalin and I can't for the life of me understand how they do it.

  • ::

Food has a strong subconscious link to love, said Kathryn Zerbe, a psychiatrist who specializes in eating disorders at Oregon Health and Science University in Portland. That is why refusing a partner’s food "can feel like rejection," she said.

As with other differences couples face, tolerance and compromise are essential at the dinner table, marital therapists said. "If you can’t allow your partner to have latitude in what he or she eats, then maybe your problem isn’t about food," said Susan Jaffe, a psychiatrist in Manhattan.

"There’s this feeling that if we eat the same thing then we are the same thing, and if we don’t, we’re no longer unified," Dr. Zerbe said. She and Dr. Jaffe said sharing food is an important ritual that enhances relationships. They advise interdietary couples to find meals they can both enjoy. "Or at least a side dish," Dr. Zerbe said.

When my husband and I first met we were both vegetarians. Well, actually I was a pescatarian, which means I ate fish but no other animals.  Soon after we started dating, he decided to add fish back into his diet. We lived that way for a stretch until I got pregnant and wanted to eat meat on occasion. He didn't, but he didn't care if I did.

Then we had the baby and moved across the country to Seattle where the food is yum-yum. Somehow in the chaos of parenthood and moving, our no-meat policy went out the window. Now we eat everything and enjoy it, although we do try to limit our meat consumption to local and/or organic meat. Don't get me started on the meat industry.

So all that's to say, my husband and I have stayed pretty well on track with each other food-wise as our relationship has progressed. I think it speaks to a quality in each other that we both admire, which is flexibility. Neither one of us typically digs in our heels. So maybe there is something to this idea of food as a barometer for relationship success.

What do you think? Would you date or marry someone whose eating habits are really different from yours? How important do you think this is in a relationship?

Tags: vegetarians, meat-eaters, dating and food, food and relationships, pescatarians (all tags)

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  • I"m sure it will come as no suprise (0 / 0)

    to anyone here that during Kelly's periodic bouts of vegetarianism I am relentless in my joking.... I'll often order a burger then say "can you throw some bacon on that? how about a veal chop?"  

    the day she came home upset b/c she'd heard some report about beakless chickens led me tod o my beakless chicken imitation every time we shaked and baked.

    I'm horrible i know but I do make her laugh?

  • Interdietary Marriage (0 / 0)

    I'm a vegetarian, he's a carnivore. I tried like mad to make our dog a vegetarian - almost killed her. DD was a vegetarian until she was 18 months old and BEGGED my SIL for a turkey leg at Christmas dinner. I have it all documented in her scrapbook. Too funny. I was bummed but it wasn't as hard for me as I thought. DS, when asked if he likes meat, scrunches up his face and says, "I hate meat." And he does. He won't touch it with the exception of Burger King chicken nugget things - has to be BK or he won't eat it. Silly boy.

    I do not buy meat, I do not cook meat; if they want meat, they are on their own. That said, they pretty much only eat meat when we go out.

    DH used to think it wasn't a meal unless there was a dead critter on his plate. 15 years later, that myth has been debunked!

    • both ways? (0 / 0)

      sounds like you've been a little bothered by the meat-eating in your family. do the meat-eaters feel the same way about your vegetarianism?

      • Yes and no (0 / 0)

        some are threatened by vegetarianism because it forces them to realize what they are eating...and I'm quite blunt about it. My kids know that "mommy doesn't eat dead animals". My MIL had a hard time but is now quite good about it and always on the lookout for good vegetarian recipes.

        • dead animals (0 / 0)

          I also talk to my kids about meat being dead animals.  I suppose some meat eaters would be bothered by this, but that's what it is!  

          We have a nearby "working" farm run by the local Audubon Society with lots of sheep, pigs, etc.  Every spring they have dozens of adorable little baby lambs, etc., and then by the following year they're all gone, but the meat freezer at the front of the farm is freshly stocked.  I think when my kids want to eat meat, I'll point this out to them, and see how they feel about it.

    • your husband sounds like mine (0 / 0)

      DH used to think it wasn't a meal unless there was a dead critter on his plate.

      except mine still thinks that

      when we were dating and i'd cook i'd cook the only way i knew how- and i didn't know how to cook meat

      i've been a vegetarian since i was seven

      after a few weeks he told me he prefers a little animal with his food

      so now i cook meat all of the time, even though i don't eat it

      • You cook it? (0 / 0)

        Oh, I can't do that. Once, early early early on I made Shrimp Scampi for DH for Valentine's Day. Honestly, I cried when I sauteed the shrimp because I felt so bad for the little critters.

        • Gigi honey I love you I really do you're (0 / 0)

          one of my favorite posters and I hop you won't hat me when I tell you that I say to Kelly all the time who gets all weepy for the chickens

          honey. I didn't kill them. but since they're dead I'm certainly going ot enjoy them with a fabulous little marinade.

          but then again I grew up throwing lobsters in the kettle by the time I was 6... I think I have a distincly different take on things LOL

          • You sound like my brother! (0 / 0)

            He says I should eat them so they didn't die in vain, that they're dead anyway so WTF? , etc. etc. etc. I was vegan for a few years and had a vegan Thanksgiving at my house. He wanted to roast a duck IN MY OVEN and I said hell no. He boycotted Thanksgiving that year!

            I'm much 'better' about it now - at least I don't have separate pans and utensils like I used to! :)

            Katie, I could would should never hate you! :) xoxo

            • I always tell Kelly (0 / 0)

              that I"m sure my lamb chop died a loving death at home in it little lamb bed with its little lamb family at its side
              now please pass the salt...

            • Good move on the "hell no" Gigi (0 / 0)

              I'm not a vegetarian but I've learned that it is a bad idea to let someone who does not have a vested interest in the household runnign smoothly cook in one's ovem.

              MIL cooked shark fillets in my oven when I was a newlywed.  It was late fall and to cold to properly air the house.  The smell was very powerful and did not go away even in the spring when the windows were opened again.  Repainting the kitchen was what finally eliminated that one.

              She got me again in a different house.  After my daughter was born last month, MIL and Fil stayed to help out for a week.  They did most of the cooking.  MIL roasted a chicken in my oven the night before she left.  She didn't do it the way that I usually do it.  She intended to dry roast it so she did it uncovered at a very high temperature.  It coated my oven in grease.  The darned thing was unuseable and the self cleaning feautre seemed to make the grease even worse.  So when she left I couldn't use my prefrozen meals that I worked on all last fall.  It took me over an hour to clean the darned oven out last weekend once I was finally up to it.  I pulled a muscle reaching in there.

              There is still grease that I can't reach and the smoke alarm goes off every time that I've used it since.  Did I mention that my sons are deathly afraid of the smoke detector sound and freak out whenever it goes off?

              So long story short, don't let my MIL use your oven.  I mean, watch who does what with your ovens ladies.  It will save you time and grief. If someone offers to cook for you, make sure they're competent.

              • how did I miss (0 / 0)

                your daughter's birth?  I guess irregular internet usage will do that to a person :)

                How did the birth go?  What is her name?  Was she big like your boys?  Are you madly in love?  

                Oh, and Congratulations!!!

                • Thanks! (0 / 0)

                  I think you were dealing with your mold crisis at the time.

                  Mary Rose was born January 9th.  She was 10 lbs 12 oz so she was in between the two boys' sizes.  We are all madly in love with her.  My four-year-old son is especially protective of her and asks to hold her every chance he gets.  My two-year-old is doing really well with her too.

                  I was talking about her birth a little on the c-section discussion.  I had to be induced again with her.  She was the roughest labor.  I had the typical reaction to pitocin.  We had a four hour stretch where I had painful contractions every two minutes.  Luckily she popped right out on the first push and I didn't even tear.  I think I put in a good effort as I was so done with that labor.  My biggest boy lulled me into a false sense of security as I only had it rough for about an hour with him.  On my other inductions with the boys the bulk of the time was spent trying to get labor started and then when it actually came it went very quickly. Mary took her time but she was well worth it.  I might have gone for an epidural had I known she was going to take her time though ;-)

          • hated the lobsters (0 / 0)

            My parents used to bring home live lobsters and my sister and I would play with them on the floor.  Then they'd become dinner.  I had a really tough time with that.

            • mmmmm.....not me (0 / 0)

              I loved holding the squirmy bag on the way home from the docks -- I picked 'em out of the tank and threw em in the pot.  there is NOTHING like lobster to a mainer...

              besides they're like the insects of the ocean...

              • you're making me drool (0 / 0)

                If I ever get to pre-plan my last dinner, it's gonna be a ME clambake. On the beach. With seaweed on the fire. Or perhaps, thinking positively, that's how I'll request the 10th anniversary party!

  • Very different eating habits (0 / 0)

    I'm happy in my marriage and wouldn't change it, but I do wish we had closer eating habits.  I'm a vegetarian, he'll eat expired chorizo.  Even our vegetables preferences are different, with me preferring the orange and red variety and him green, although that problem is solved with our daughter falling more into the green camp.  So it's mostly broccoli, asparagus, sugar snap peas and red bell peppers, which really most people like.

    Aside from being inefficient, both economically and labor wise, I really do miss sharing food with my partner.  But not so much that I think the relationship is a mistake.

  • I stopped eating meat.. (0 / 0)

    ..when I came to the US, and before visiting Sister Q and her visiting me. She'd said (she now denies it, but I remember) that she could smell the dead flesh on meat eaters if she was in close (relatively intimate) proximity to them, and I felt like that wasn't something I wanted her to experience when she was with me, so I just stopped. It was the same logic that had me stop smoking cigars. I've never smoked many, but I did enjoy them on occasion. If you've ever kissed someone after they've had one (days or weeks after, even), it tastes like something's died in their mouth. For me, that sort of thing is just affording your partner some respect - she never asked me to do so, it just seemed like the right thing to do.
    Since then, I've slipped a bit. I do feel better if I eat some meat on occasion, but on occasion is every month or two. We also eat a lot of fish.

    I think in some ways, outlook on this is more important - neither of us feels that it's wrong to eat meat that's been raised and slaughtered in a humane manner. Before I changed my diet, I made an effort to eat meat that had been raised in a humane way. I think I'd struggle to be with someone who had no problem with the factory farming of animals, and there are certain things that are produced in an extremely cruel manner such as foie gras or veal that I wouldn't allow in my house, nor respect anyone who chose to eat them.

    "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

    by Expat Briton on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:10:42 AM PDT

  • Isn't everybody (0 / 0)

    in a mixed marriage to some degree?  Nobody's spouse cooks like their parents did.  We're mixed because DH won't eat green vegetables and isn't big on vegetarian or Asian food, both of which were a big part of my diet growing up.

    I kind of think Tony is right - the cooking and eating of meat is a holy thing.  But, factory farming is the enemy of all that is good and decent in the universe.  I really need to make more of an effort to get meat that doesn't come from that system.  It wasn't that hard for chicken when I made and effort, but I never tried for beef.  The way we treat farming in this country means what should be life-giving and holy is soul-killing instead.

  • garlic (0 / 0)

    My husband is allergic to garlic. So is his mother. Really allergic. So there's no garlic in our house...and I do miss it at times. Luckily, I didn't grow up eating it a lot, so it's not a huge deal for me. I know a lot of people for whom it would be very very difficult indeed!

    I must admit to a large helping of garlic bread occasionally when we go out to dinner. And then DH has to sleep in the guest bedroom while it comes out of my pores. :) Not that he'd react at that stage...just the smell is very overpowering for him. Yum.

  • probably no surprise (0 / 0)

    for me, I'm very live and let live about this issue, unless someone gets all preachy about it. If I'm having guests over for the first time, I do my standard allergies/food preferences spiel, because I would hate to serve something that is inedible for one reason or another. We're omnivores and I love my meat, but we ususally have two or three vegetarian meals per week. I try to buy humanely farmed/organic meat as much as possible for ethical and health reasons, but I know I can do better.

    However, if someone tries the "dead animal" line on me, I'm really liable to take Katie's route and ask for an extra side of bacon on my lamb/veal fricasse! Or order my steak extra-rare and cut it with great abandon and zeal. This has only ever happened a few times, and you really have to piss me off to get me to that point.

    • my problem (0 / 0)

      is that i'm susceptible to the dead animal argument. i can't think too much about the meat i'm eating or i get grossed out. it's worse when i cook it. dealing with a whole chicken is an exercise in denial for me.

      • not for me (0 / 0)

        I've seen the process from start to table (don't want to do details to spare your stomach!), so I'm cognizant of the process and it still doesn't bother me. Of course, there is cognitive dissonance in that I've seen the process done in humane manners, and I know that large scale meat preparation ain't like that, but still eat meat from those sources. I really need to finally get myself in gear and source humanely raised/prepared meat.

        Not to worry; if you come over to my house, I'm happy to either do veggie or make sure to do all the meat prep in advance to spare tender feelings.

        • you should watch (0 / 0)

          the movie fast food nation. we watched it recently and holy crap, it makes you want to never touch industrial meat again.

          • Dh read it (0 / 0)

            and Diet for a New Americaand STILL eats meat...he must have some Yankee blood in him (a la Katie!) even tho he's a Canuck...

            • I guess here's where I'm coming from (0 / 0)

              I willjust never be convinced that I should be that choked up abou ta cow. or a chicken. or a duck or a lamb or a lobster.  I am PETAs worst nightmare,  a meat loving liberal who really doesn't give a damn about the animal faces that used to be on my food.  I like my FOODDDD.   I like vegetables pasta and meat and fish.  
              my heart bleeds for people... not so much for animals.

              Kelly? total opposite.  If you watch a war movie with her all she gets up set about is "oh that horse got hur" but could give a damn that an entire batallion just got wiped out.  She also really doesn't get choked up about the plight of children. AFter the tsunami I saent money to Save the Children, she sent it to some animal organization.  She said to me once "you should give your old towels and blankest to an animal shelter" I said um. or I could give them to a PEOPLE shelter. She looked at me like I was crazy....
              I love her and she loves me but we'll never come to the same point on this issue. Besides I know she's also secretly a lamb chop junkie (I call it her secret shame)

              • Her secret shame! (0 / 0)

                LOL...

                I used to be OVER THE TOP animal crazy before kids...now, while I will not eat or wear them, I'm not as choked up/obsessed about them. It was an interesting evolution and one, I'm sure, that was sped up by having a medically fragile child.

              • the point to me is (0 / 0)

                I don't like industrial food processing because it creates an unsafe product that I eat! E. coli, salmonella, antibiotics, growth hormones, etc., etc. Personally, I also prefer it that the animals I am going to consume live lives that have minimal suffering, but it's mostly about safety and cleanliness of meat that I'm on about.

                My BIL and I are on the same page as you and I: he raises chickens on with his partner. His partner's mostly a vegetarian; my BIL calls his chickens "Fryer, Roaster, Barbeque, Freezer, etc., etc. etc." They're very tasty looking! ;-)

          • read it. saw it. (0 / 0)

            still eat burgers.
            gonna take more than that to get me off the cow.  When i was pregnant I ate cheesburgers like other people eat potato chips.  

    • one of my college friends (0 / 0)

      was the worst preachiest kind of vegetarian. And great - but don't tell ME to live that way was y point.  And she was the kind that wouldn't eat something if it was on the same plate as a meat product or if her utensil had touched a meat product yadda yadda -- she brought out the WORST in me.  I used to order VEAL.  VEAL!!!! just to piss her off.

      • I love veal (0 / 0)

        love it. Hhhhuhhhm. My mom makes a fantastic baked veal, usually in spring. Yum.

        • But you know... (0 / 0)

          Here veal isn't cave cow (as my DH calls it). The true European and American veal is a baby cow that has never seen the light of day and never eats anything but milk (not that I'm an expert). Hence the issue that most people have with it. Veal here in Oz is just very young cow. They aren't kept in the dark and their diet isn't restricted. There is one company that's the exception...I think it's called Castle Rock or something along those lines. They make cave cow. But the others are pretty humane.

          So no guilt for me. I won't eat it in the US, but I don't have a problem with it here.

          • "Red Veal" (0 / 0)

            If you're looking for veal that's not cave cow (love the term), that's what it's usually called. The restricted movement and dark conditions are what makes veal so light in colour, so veal where the calves have been allowed to move is more red. Doesn't taste exactly the same (so I'm told - AFAIK, I've never eaten veal), but it's pretty similar.

            "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

            by Expat Briton on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:29:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    • I don't get preachy (0 / 0)

      often my dead animal comment is a last ditch attempt to get people who are so incredibly threatened that I don't eat or wear animals to back the hell off!

      Would I prefer DH and DD to be vegetarian? Of course (for myriad reasons). Can I force them? Of course not. Can I educate them (either subtly or overtly)? Sure. DD is 5 and is able to have a very coherent and nuanced discussion about the pros and cons of eating meat. I think that's pretty cool.

      • i agree (0 / 0)

        DD is 5 and is able to have a very coherent and nuanced discussion about the pros and cons of eating meat. I think that's pretty cool.

        that is cool. we haven't introduced the topic much to our four-year old. he has a friend whose parents are veggies and this boy a proud veggie too. my son was eating a meal with his friend who announced that he was a vegetarian. my son had no idea what he was talking about. later on i explained what a vegetarian is and i asked him if he wanted to be one. he looked at me like i was nuts. so we'll have that conversation later.

      • I'm not threatened! (0 / 0)

        not threatened by vegans/vegetarians; I'll often swap recipes and prepare meals for my non-meaty friends. I think it's cool, but not for me. If Jess was to decide that she wants to be a vegetarian, fine by me, so long as she's getting proper nutrition (and this is really where I'd insist).

        But for me, I like my steaming hunk of dead animal. So, hey, GiGi, you're welcome at my table and we cn whip up a lovely meal together! ;-)

    • you're reminding me of janeane garafalo (0 / 0)

      she did a bit - if you're a vegetarian, this is what you need to do- you need to be a vegetarian, and you need to shut up about it.

      • YES!!!! enough with the G*d*mn preaching (0 / 0)

        it was literally all my friend would talk about -- and you know, truth be told I probably eat vegetarain meals (lunches and dinners) 8-9 times a week so it's not like the concept is foreign to me but my friend was so obnoxious it made me crazy and made me want to do the exact opposite of everything else she did.  It's like militant anythings (breastfeeders, clothe diaper users, baby wearers)  -- they never have the desired effect on me LOL I always end up saying things like "ah I just prop the bottle on their swing and go tot he gym.  What? is that wrong? "

        hee.

      • grin... (0 / 0)

        I feel like that about a lot of things. Do whatever you want. Just don't try to convert me!!

  • We have certain rules (0 / 0)

    Like others above, I'm a vegetarian, my husband is a carnivore.  I once had one long, intense conversation trying to convert him, for environmental reasons, but it didn't work, and I'm OK with that.  Our deal is that our home is a vegetarian home, which means that we only cook and eat vegetarian food at home.  When we go out, he can eat whatever he wants, and when the kids are old enough, they'll be able to choose to eat meat out of the home as well.

    It's a pretty flexible rule, though.  My husband will sometimes cook meat after the kids are in bed, and I'm fine with that.  He'll also occasionally mix meat into something in front of them, and if they ask for it, he'll just tell them it's spicy.  This bugs me a bit, but I let it slide.  We had Thanksgiving here with extended family and served a turkey.  Rare take-out meals are fair game for meat in the house too.

    My 3-year-old understands that we're vegetarians, and I've told him that "our family our doesn't eat meat."  It's not entirely true, because of his dad, but I think that's the best explanation right now when the world is so black and white.  I'm wondering at what age I'll feel like he's old enough to choose to eat meat.  I'll be fine with him making the choice once he's old enough to really understand what meat is.  I was 9 when I truly got it and chose to be a vegetarian, so by around then I'll definitely be comfortable with him choosing.

    My goal is not necessarily to raise vegetarian kids, but to raise kids who respect vegetarianism and make thoughtful choices about how we affect our environment.

    • cheers! (0 / 0)

      this sounds like you have really good communication and respect in your family. this could be something that really divides people and i'm impressed at how well you and your husband navigate it.

      • thanks (0 / 0)

        Yeah, I think we're going to be in good shape going forward.  I have lots of vegetarian friends who are pretty committed to raising their kids vegetarian, and I wonder if this will cause more of a struggle.

        The one thing I still worry about is that I've heard it's hard for one parent to say "I think it's wrong to eat meat" when the other parent is a meat-eater, especially during the age when things are so black and white for kids.

        • As hard as you make it (0 / 0)

          My kids totally get why I don't eat meat. My DD enjoys meat so she totally gets why DH does eat it. As with any differences within the family, its all as hard - or as easy and matter of fact -  as you make it.

  • DH is vegetarian (0 / 0)

    After we'd been together for a while I became vegetarian.  He had never pressured me and I didn't think it was a big deal until he said, "Okay, now all you have to do is convert to Judaism and we'll be all set!"

    I have already taught DS that the big mistake people make in relationships is thinking they're going to "fix" each other.

    • word. Kelly still can't get over (0 / 0)

      that i'm completely unapologetic in the fact that while I think animals are cute...i don't think they're people and people coem first.  she keeps thinking she's going to "fix" that part of me. one time I was talking about my friend in NJ  who's starting a consulting business and travelling all the time and is really gettin gburnt out and I was worrying about her and thought we shoudl try to have her up for a visit and a rest and Kelly said "who the hell is taking care of her CAT while she travels??? Now I'm so upset about this I can't enjoy the rest of the evening "  Yeah...cuz that's the point of my story for the love of god... seriously.  she's deranged when it comes to animals.  

      • Funny (0 / 0)

        Whenever there is a natural disaster somewhere - flood, fire, hurricane, tornado, earthquake - my FIRST thought is about the plight of the animals. I stress about it, scour the news for ways to help the animal rescue efforts, blah blah blah. Kelly and I must've been born under the same star or something!

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