Mother Talkers

Should She Move Back?

Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:03:42 AM PDT

About a month ago, I hit rock-bottom when DH was out of town and I had a stomach bug and the two kids. Man, does it suck when you have kids and get sick. What a difference from the pre-kid days when you could stay home from work and watch TV. Heh.

Anyways, I had flirted with the idea of moving back to New Hampshire to be closer to my parents and siblings there. My husband talked me out of it because he reassured me that once he was done with his book (the end of this month), he will have a saner schedule with less travel and can help me. Plus, we would lose money on our home if we were to sell it today and we do not have the money to purchase a second home. Most importantly, we love Berkeley! The warm weather, the politics, the diversity, city life and culture -- this is who we are.

As if I needed more proof to stay, I smiled at the advice Salon’s Cary Tennis recently gave to a woman who, in a worse position than me, but still was wondering the same thing: should she move back home to Wisconsin -- after years of living in her beloved Colorado -- to be closer to her mother who is dying of ovarian cancer. Her two sisters also live there. Tennis said no.

I would not move back there now. If you want to move back there, you can do so later. Instead, right now, I suggest you maintain your own household and be ready to travel on short notice and to make extended stays.

So maintain your stable home in Colorado, and visit as often as you can. Be there. But don't move there. You will be glad, over the months and possibly years ahead, that you can return to your Colorado home for respite. The near future will be hard enough as it is.

If you move back there now, not only might you feel trapped, but it also might not be the best thing for your family. They are under great stress. So if you relocate to Wisconsin in the midst of this stress and difficulty, you may find yourself struggling with your sisters over things none of you really understand, buffeted by powerful and unexplained emotions driven by deep, unacknowledged motives -- to save your mother, to reunite the family, to recapture a happier time when your father was there, to overcome guilt about leaving for Colorado. And those struggles might divert everyone from what is really going on. This is about your mother. Your mother is gravely ill and will probably die soon. That is the thing you must face.

He is right that it may be an impulsive and emotional decision and one she may regret after her mother passes away. Of course, to each her own. I may have a hard time staying away if any of my parents were gravely ill.

But I liked his perspective in why we may choose to live where we do:

  • ::

So you must be strong and have faith that you moved to Colorado for good reason and you fell in love with the state for good reason. Places that draw us do not always draw us consciously; there is some other entity in play here, what we refer to loosely as the soul, the sum of the unknown but deeply felt forces that guide us and push us without our fully understanding how and why. So you must trust that you are in Colorado for good reason, and do what you can from there.

I note with interest that it is ovarian cancer that your mom has, and that you have just had a baby, and that your mother's children are three women. Three sisters. Three sisters whose mother has ovarian cancer. The father figure is a stepfather. This is a profoundly female universe. Your mother, you might say, did good work with her ovaries; she left many more functioning ovaries in the world. And now she is passing out of that world. I don't know exactly what that means for you and your sisters. But I suspect that in the language of the psyche it all means a great deal.

We originally moved west for work. It was the height of the dot-com era and we smelled opportunity. Thankfully, California has been the place we have been able to achieve our dreams, which is why we cannot fathom ever leaving.

What originally drew you to your current homes, MotherTalkers? Would you rather be somewhere else? Why?

I actually dream of making enough money to bring my family here. My parents love it here, too, and have expressed interest in re-locating.

Tags: Cary Tennis, Salon, New Hampshire, Berkeley, Colorado, Wisconsin, ailing mother (all tags)

Permalink | 61 comments

  • Many DO have a place that is RIGHT (0 / 0)

    I grew up in Oklahoma (LOL) but always ... always -- knew I would leave as soon as I could.  And I did -- the day after college graduation.  I remember going to the local bank and getting a loan for $700 (double LOL) to move.  The banker tried his hardest to talk me out of it.  He said, "You will hate California -- you won't be able to get a job, even picking oranges."  It gave me great pleasure to send in my last payment with orange peels and a note:  "Guess what?  I got a job picking oranges.  I know you're glad, because I got my loan paid off."  My mother and I still laugh at that.

    I just knew California was right for me.  Several of my friends moved out here, but always moved back.  (And at other places in the country, too.)  Being a small town, I know where everyone ended up.  A few moved to CA, a few to NY -- the rest, it seems are all very close to OK.  (Kansas, Arkansas, etc.  At one reunion, the coordinator told me, "Out of our graduating class, 50% still live in this town and 80% still live in Oklahoma!  That says a lot about our town and classmates, doesn't it?"  I said, "Yes!"  (But we had different meanings for the stats.  hahaha)

    I moved to LA.  And when I got married, moved up north.  I loved LA, but love San Francisco more.  I am stuck in Sacramento, but absolutely LOVE San Francisco.  The best city in the country, IMO.  Oh well, it is easy driving distance for a day trip.

    And yes, my father died 6 years ago (a week before 9/11) and my mother is "alone" now in Okla.  She has tons of friends so everything is taken care of.  But she still expects me to move back "home" (and she calls it that for me, even though I haven't lived there for almost 35 years).  I tell her, "No.  If you need help, we will move you HERE.  I don't leave my home and children now."  

  • Oh this touches my soul.... (0 / 0)

    I love both pieces you chose to quote Elisa.  I think the advice offered was spot on. I have lived here in Bay area for past 15 years and while I love it...my heart belongs to the east coast.

    I moved to NY City area when I was 30 years old from Southern California. I moved there site unseen, but somehow I knew I would love it.  Despite the fact that I was in a lousy marriage, I still view it as one of the happiest 11 years of my life. When I go back I immediately feel at home and truthfully it has only been recently that I don't actually weep upon the approach to the city from JFK.  I literally "feel" it as we emerge from the tunnel into NYC.  I have similar feelings about the entire east coast from NYC to Maine.

    I have always had very strong 'gut' feelings about places. In addition to New York City the following have touched my soul too:

    Mendocino
    Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
    Portland
    Paris

    The advice to the woman about staying put in Colorado...great perspective and advice, imo.

    • Excellent soul-touching places (0 / 0)

      My first trip north of the Golden Gate bridge I knew I wanted to live on the North Coast. And now I do.

      But I also miss New Mexico and the southwest in general - I have family there and have spent many months of my life there - and I hadn't realized how much I'd miss being able to hop in the car in Los Angeles and be in the desert in an hour or two.

  • My story... (0 / 0)

    came from Northern Vermont to Boston for college and fell in love with the city and didn't want to leave.  My husband came here for... me!

    Unfortunately we are a four hour drive north away from  my parents and siblings and at least a four hour drive south from DH's in NJ.  It never bothered me much until becoming a Mom.  I never wanted my own Mom so much in my life!  And I am so jealous of everyone who can drop off their kids at the grandparents in a pinch or ask an auntie to pick them up from school...

    We flirt with the idea of moving often but the job market in Vermont is not good and the cost of living in NJ is prohibitive as well (although not that much more so than MA).

    I miss our families but generally after spending a few days with them...  Visiting is good!

  • Came to NH from MO (0 / 0)

    We went back and forth between Berkely and NH for my grad school choice.  DH and I couldn't choose but finally decided to come here because my sister is close and we'd at least be able to consolidate visits when my folks came.  We landed in a lovely community in the southwest corner of the state and feel, finally, like we're truly home.  After 13 moves in 15 years, we're finally home.  It's a lovely feeling.  Not that I don't miss my parents like crazy and DH's family has never been to visit (but that's a whole nother story), but on our last visit back (just in December) we both realized that Missouri just isn't home anymore.  It was a tough moment, but also reassuring.

    • I too came to NH but only from next door (0 / 0)

      in Maine.  I came here when I got married.  Fell in love with it -- the wy it's one big small town, the way you can make a name for yourself and touch on so many aspects of life here, the way you really can make a difference, the independent spirit, the crankiness, the way people eat and sleep politics, the way I can be in the mountains, at the beach or i Boston in less than an hour -- you'll have to dynamite me out of here. I may move from Manchester to a smaller town, but I've been in manchester for 18 years now and it surely is home...

      or maybe after this winter you can dynamite me to ARizona for the winter months in my later years... ;-)

  • I live in Evanston, Illinois (0 / 0)

    I grew up south of Chicago and never, never meant to remain in the Midwest. I've lived in other cities -- Boston, Berkeley, New York, Washington D.C. -- but it never worked out that I was able to stay there. Life conspired to bring me back to the Midwest, and now I must say: Evanston is HOME. It is a college town, just north of Chicago, and is probably the bluest area in a blue state. We have the beauty of the Northwestern campus, right on Lake Michigan ... beaches and stately old Victorian homes ... an incredibly creative, engaged, politically aware citizenry ... diversity, the arts, and a history of inclusiveness. We've been here for four years. This town is filled with kindred spirits, and I'm so glad my girls will always call Evanston home.

    I hate the weather (especially recently, it's been snowy and cold enough to freeze your toes off). But there is such a wonderful, warm spirit of creativity and community here that it more than makes up for it. And the summers on the lake ... ahhhhhh! Heaven on earth!

    • evanston is beautiful n/t (0 / 0)

    • I love Illinois (0 / 0)

      And I do not think I'll ever leave it. I actually love the weather- I like the bitter cold and the really hot summers and the fact there is a difference big enough to move the year along... I love the people out here and the fact that my entire family is here is a big draw too.

      I've been a lot of different places but never lived anywhere else and I can say with some certainty that it would take a hell of a lot to get me out of here. :) I grew up in what's now Homer Glen and I live in Aurora.

      • Hi neighbor! :-) (0 / 0)

        There is something about the seasons, isn't there ... you get to experience the full panorama of life, and the life-cycle. Spring always follows winter, and it gives me such a lift each year. My husband is more of a fan of winter than I am, but since I started skiing I've found something to enjoy this time of the year, too.

        And I love Midwesterners, too. Down to earth, friendly, unaffected, tell-it-like-it-is. I'm proud to be a Midwesterner at heart.

        • I know I am odd ... (0 / 0)

          ... but one thing I do not like about California (much of it) is the weather.  We have 4 seasons ... sure we do ... but not really.  What I really really REALLY miss is thunderstorms.  LOUD thunder!  Crackling lightning!  Loud enough to make you jump.  (I lived in Illinois for 3 years and miss that.)  We never get that here.  God, I miss it!

        • another Chicagoan (0 / 0)

          I grew up in Wisconsin, which is why it's nearly impossible for me to admit that I live in Illinois.  Funny, I have no problem being a Chicagoan, but the Illinois thing gets me, every time.  

          I love the midwest.  I went east for undergrad but migrated back to Norhtwestern for grad school, and have stayed.  DH grew up in NYC/Amsterdam and always dreamed of returning to NYC.  I've tried and tried, but even a week in NYC and I'm running for the exits.  And now DH admits that he prefers it here.  A 3 hour drive from my family, a direct flight from all of his, the nice people, the weather that I love (even today!).  So, I guess we're home.  

          --R

  • Opposite bias here (0 / 0)

    Moved out of upstate NY town for greener pastures in the Baltimore/DC corridor during grad school.  I really missed my family.  So I moved back here to NY after school and brought my husband with me.  We literally live in my parents' backyard and couldn't be happier.

    It probably helps that we all get along and genuinely like each other.  I think upbringing had something to do with it too.  My uncle lives next door to me in the house that used to belong to my grandparents.  I also grew up with grandparents across the backyard so I'm glad that my kids are having the same experience.

    • Us, too (0 / 0)

      Both DH and I went to grad school out of state and then settled in Penna when we were first married.  However, after 10 years we decided it was time to come home to Wisconsin.

      I don't regret any of it. It was a great experience to live in different parts of the country and a way for me to really grow up.  But now we're about an hour away from each set of parents and we get to enjoy life with our families, which we missed desperately when we were away.  I feel like I've gotten to have the best of both worlds in my life.

  • Northern California or Southern Oregon (0 / 0)

    And that's it for me. I've said to dh a number of times that he needs to see Ashland, Oregon - so as to fall in love with it also - and that we should think about buying a place there to retire. Or any number of towns in Southern Oregon, coastal or otherwise. ("Retire" would be in 20 years, though, so I'm getting ahead of myself).

    I am a seventh generation Californian on one side of my family and a fifth generation Californian on the other. I did move to Seattle for five years, but came back. I was strangely disconcerted the entire time I lived in Seattle - it wasn't just the weather (but puhleeeze, don't let me go there), but the culture of the place that did not jive with me at all. Or me with it.

    California is my land and my history. It's funny about the people. The demographics of California have changed radically since growing up in the 70s, so it's not the people per se, but the fact that everybody came. That's what I love.

    It's also what's wearing me down a bit. My family comes from more rural and agricultural areas of California, and Sacramento (which is kind of both, but also neither ...). Now I find myself in Silicon Valley. It's not bad, but it's not me. I am still reserving some judgement about it, because being a SAHM here will basically kick your ego's butt. I also find myself, for the first time in my life, thinking that there is a carpetbagger feel to many people who come here to the Valley - an ugly thought, but an honest thought and feeling nonetheless.

    I feel it when I meet people who arrived with their elbows out, striving and conniving about their prospects. They only love it here because they are making money and the weather is good. They don't care about the history or the culture. We don't need that. Thank god, that's not everybody; many people come here and really get it.

    I'm not sure I want to raise my son here in Silicon Valley. It's kind of an elephant in the room, because dh's job is wedded to clean technology at this point. I may be the only person in the Bay Area who wants to move to Sacramento LOL.

    • It is astonishing to me .... (0 / 0)

      ... how many Bay Area (not as far as the S.V. though) workers actually live in Sacramento and COMMUTE to S.F.!  Driving 2 hours (or more) one way -- and then back again after work -- just gives me the shivers.  I ask WHY and they say they can't afford to buy a house in the Bay Area.  Wow.  I think I would either get a job in Sacto OR rent in the B.A.  (And, truth be told, these people drove the home prices WAY up here.  I bought my first house in Sacramento -- in 1981 -- for $50K!  I realize prices have gone up, but that much?  Too bad my mother's house in Okla has only gone up less than $100K in 45 years!)  And many LA commutes are even worse.

      Then again -- to each his own.

      • ah yes... (0 / 0)

        ...the "supercommuters."

        I don't get it. Owning a house is not nearly important enough for me to spend hours in traffic every day. It's a quality of life issue.

        I live in Orange County in one of the more expensive cities. I chose to live here because my job is here and I have an 8-mile commute. Living in Sacramento spoiled me and I just can't handle L.A. traffic any more.

        I could buy a big, gorgeous, affordable house in the Inland Empire and spend hours on the road everyday...but I flat-out REFUSE. We could move in with my parents to save up money for a down payment faster...but again, I would be miserable sitting in that traffic every day.

        • It's all relative, I guess (0 / 0)

          When you said "Living in Sacramento spoiled me and I just can't handle L.A. traffic any more.", I understand.  But to most of America, Sacramento, too, would be hell on commuting.

          I moved to Sacramento in 1979.  I could zip to work in 30 minutes, from practically anywhere in the city/burbs.  At some point, it got really bad.  Was it because there aren't enough bridges over the river, and all traffic has to use a couple of roads with bridges (cough, cough WATT AVE.), or is it merely a lot more people?  I don't know, but it is a lot more traffic-y here now.  But in relativity, not nearly as bad as the Bay Area or L.A.  OR as "good" as many areas in the U.S.

          P.S.  As I said before, I used to live in L.A. (1975-78) and I loved it.  When we visit now, I cannot drive there.  It literally scares me.  (Thousands of cars!  Bumper-to-bumper!  They won't let you in on an on-ramp!)  Was it like this way back when?  Or have I been away too long?  Either way, I can't drive there, alone, anymore.  (And you have not been scared until you ride with my mother -- from rural Okla.-- who STOPS at the top of an on-ramp and waits for drivers to LET HER IN!)

          • very true (0 / 0)

            I lived in North Natomas and worked in midtown so my commute was always reasonable...15-20 minutes on the 5, and there I was.

            I do know that rush hour on the 50 and the 80 were a nightmare for people living in the burbs and working in midtown. Glad I never had to deal with it!

            • I did contracting the last 8 years .... (0 / 0)

              ... so had assignments in many areas.  If it was in a State agency (downtown or midtown), I gave up and rode light rail, since there was NO parking at downtown State buildings.  (And it wasn't bad, since I usually chose to get to work at 9:00 am.  If there was a meeting, and I had to be there at 8:00 -- no room!)  But yes, I lived in Carmichael -- smack dab between 80 and 50.  Either way, I had horrid traffic.

              Were you a journalist then?  Both the Bee and the News & Review are in midtown.  In fact, at one job, I was right across the street from the N&R.  The funnest (is this a word?) place I ever worked.  I loved that area.  But too many of the State workers there had the security guards walk them to their cars, because they were scared down there.  (At 3:00 pm!) Scared?  I loved it.  I could write a book about the things I saw down there.

              • yup (0 / 0)

                I worked at The Bee for 7 years, 21st and Q. Had our own employee lot, didn't have to worry about parking.

                Did I mention The Bee also has a subsidized on-site day care center and an employee gym in the basement?

                Like I said, I was lucky! I also still miss our little house. Leaving that place was not easy, but I'm still glad I made the move.

      • Painful (0 / 0)

        I would rent near good schools rather than ever do a commute like that. There are commutes like that in every direction from SF. It seems like it would really wear on your health and relationships, making the house a bad buy after all.

        And of course I remember the houses for 50K also! We lived in Fair Oaks in a lovely house from 1978 - 1981, and it was about 50K. Hate to know what it costs to live out there now. Last time I passed through, there was a Ferrari dealership in Fair Oaks - a little burb out in a walnut orchard (is there any evidence whatsoever left of the walnut orchard, I wonder???). For shame.

        • I don't get out there often .... (0 / 0)

          ... but the last time I was there, there WERE still quite a few green areas.  And it is VERY high priced now.  The house you knew for $50K is probably about a half a million now.  No kidding.

      • Or at least take the train (0 / 0)

        People do some crazy commutes in California.

        (Worse, there are people who commute via Southwest! There are firefighters and nurses with full time jobs in the Bay Area and houses in Las Vegas.)

        Sometimes I think that people don't really add up the costs very carefully - not just the gas money, but wear and tear on the car, the time, the need/want/impulse to pick up takeout rather than cook because there's NO TIME...

        But the other reason people do big commutes is because so many are two-career couples, and sometimes finding two jobs and a house within a short distance is not so easy.

    • do you know jacksonville oregon? (0 / 0)

      we are planning so far to go up to jacksonville oregon in a year and half to semi-retire.  do you know it?  it is next to ashland.  jacksonville is a national historic town of @2000 people.  hosts the britt festival and is just 15 minutes from ashland and 5 minutes from medford.

      we started investing in real estate there 12 years ago, so we will likely end up there, although new mexico is still on our radar. let me know if you'd like any info about the ashland area.  

      • Wow, what a good decision (0 / 0)

        To invest in the Ashland area 12 years ago. It sounds like you or your family are from there? I totally love it, and assume dh will, too. I have distant family in Jacksonville (my mom's cousins kids and grandkids) - although I may be getting it mixed up with that cute town on the coast where the Tillamook cheese comes from. Time to brush up on Oregon geography. I would love to have information about the Ashland area (do you have a favorite realtor?).

        Tough choice - high desert or evergreens? Maybe a little of both?

        • we'd love a little of both... (0 / 0)

          we have been investing there for a long time.  we have our first house still in jacksonville on 2 acres...just 1/2 mile outside of the town. this is probably where we will live. it feels like country but yet very close to j'ville.  we turned 2 other houses into multiple units in shady cove and rogue river.  rogue river btw is very hot right now and a really great community about 20 minutes up from medford on hwy 5. ithey are referring to it as the next jacksonville.

          we do love it up there.  lots to do.  we love the lakes and rivers.  we've done fly fishing and of course river rafting.  plus both all the great stuff in ashland and the britt festival.  love the britt.  we have seen great shows...rock, pop, cowboy and classical...all out on a great summers evening under the stars.  the other plus is great food.  both ashland and jacksonville have great restaurants. 2 hours to the shore, 5 hours to SF, and 5 hours to portland.

          if you want realtors email me about what you are looking for.  

  • my take: Colorado will always be there (0 / 0)

    Mom will not.

    That may seem overly simplistic but I can't imagine ever regretting spending my mother's last days right by her side. YMMV, of course; it helps that I happen to adore her.

    Then again, I don't share the writer's dilemma of loving where I live and having those I love in another place. I moved away from home (Southern California) just out of high school, eager to get out and explore. I was away for 15 years and lived in 5 different states, and every year just solidified for me that "HOME" would always be where my family remained.

    Once my daughter was born I just KNEW I needed to move home. It wasn't easy, as journalism jobs are hard to come by and the cost of living is astronomically higher in SoCal than in Sacramento. But we made some sacrifices and took the plunge.

    I haven't regretted it for a moment, and despite the traffic and smog and other crap, I still LOVE this place! There's nowhere else I'd rather be. Having family around is fun AND helpful: we left Maya with my mom for our first weekend away since she was born. Last night, a cousin came over after we put Maya to bed so DH and I could sneak out to watch a movie. She has cousins her age who she adores. Those little things mean a lot.

    As for Cary's advice, I do like that he said be there as much as you can. That could get expensive, of course. If a temporary move was a possibility, that would be my tack. Rent out the house, put stuff in storage, know that you'll return eventually.

    But in the meantime, be with mom.

    • Had the same thought (0 / 0)

      She was thinking of moving back to Wisconsin BECAUSE her mother is dying.  Moving back later, when her mother is dead, makes no sense.  She can move back to Colorado later.  There may be tension between herself and her sisters regardless, but I would guess not being there would have more potential for creating resentment.  Yes, her mother is dying.  How is staying in Colorado not facing that?  I would almost think the opposite.  And then...there are lots of women in her family and her mother got a lot of use out of her ovaries?  I could make no sense of the answer at all.

      My mother nursed her own mother and several other relatives through their final illnesses, and I will do the same for her.  I'm not excited about it, but I'm positive that it's the right thing to do and the only thing I will be able to live with.

      • The ovary thing bugged me (0 / 0)

        Would he say the same thing if it was a dad dying of testicular cancer who happened to have many sons?

      • I took another spin on it (0 / 0)

        I thought Tennis was reaching for something positive and didn't quite articulate it clearly. I think that coloring that response was the following:

        1.) He's a man
        2.) He's a man who has decided with his wife not to have children
        3.) He's a man who has a very uneasy relationship with his own family; his father is not in good health and he's chosen to not care for his father in person (or not chosen to take care of his father - I'm not quite sure which expresses his situation better, whether he actively chose not to care or just didn't choose at all and let his brother assume more responsibility).
        4.) He's talking with a woman who's just had a baby, talking about nursing her mother with her sisters. There's a very powerful matrilineal symbolism to this woman's circumstance, if you'll forgive me for reducing her pain to mere symbol.

        I think Tennis was trying to express wonder or even awe at two things - one, that this woman is working with her sisters and her mother to ease her mother's dying; and two, that there is this matrilineal symbolism going on. If you'll indulge me: when I gave birth to Jess and found out she was a girl, there was a very powerful moment of continuity. You know, the whole thing about females being born with all the eggs already formed in her ovaries, unlike men. I actually did think for a moment in those first few minutes after finishing with labor that Jess and I were like those nesting Russian dolls - she was inside me, and all our future generations were inside her. This must sound strange, but this is what I felt - this very intrinsic connection to the future through my daughter through the specific circumstance of her being a girl.

        Without psychoanalysing or speaking for Tennis, I think he was oddly trying to salute this woman and her mother, who is dying of ovarian cancer, for this circumstance.

        Or I'm just talking out of my ar$e. Let me know!

        • Makes sense (0 / 0)

          I only just found out that Russian nesting dolls were the multi-generational project you speak of.  The symbolism is beautiful, and of course aside from the grief of losing our parents, it is also very symbolic.  It just seems to me that he focused too much on symbolism when, at the moment, the writer probably has grief on her mind.  To me it just didn't seem appropriate for the moment.

          But you're right--it was probably an intellectually beautiful but emotionally clumsy salute.

          • you're right there (0 / 0)

            but that's very Cary Tennis; he sometimes over-intellectualizes painful moments. I think I'd probably be annoyed if I was that woman; hey, dude, I'm grieving. Save the set-piece symbolism for your next book!

        • i think you got it... (0 / 0)

          and i loved your description of giving birth to jess...like those russian nesting dolls!  
    • I was wondering why he didn't suggest that (0 / 0)

      not to make a permanent move, but rather temporarily relocate. Perhaps the woman indicated financial duress, or perhaps her husband can't transfer his job easily (not all of us can!) in her letter and he edited it out for space?

      • ITA (0 / 0)

        temporarily moving would be a ginormous pain in the ass, but death is kind of like that. It would teach a tremendous lesson to the kids about the importance of family, experience and relationships over convenience and comfort.

        In the long run, I think the odds are that it would be worth it. Upheaval and grief are not always to be avoided.

      • i dunno (0 / 0)

        the letter made it sound like husband was totally willing to do whatever she wanted. It sounded like she was the one with doubts...and hating the weather was one of them.

        Sorry, but if my mom was dying, I wouldn't be sweating the weather too much.

    • After going through something similar... (0 / 0)

      my take on his comments are colored by my own experience.  i think he urged her to be with her mother as in being available to make short notice trips.  when a parent becomes ill the stress is enormous and it is easy to make decisions that may not be in everyone's best interest.

      when my mother became ill, my siblings and i were going up from bay area to southern oregon nearly every weekend for 3 months. we were in a constant state of emergency and she was being rushed in and out of the hospital.  my dh and i made the decision to put the house we loved on the market and find a larger home to accomodate my parents.  was it the right decision?  well, honestly i am not sure.  it was right in that my mother's whole problem was she was overmedicating. the doctors couldn't give us any diagnosis, we thought she was dying. had we not moved her down would we have figured that all out?  hard to say. in the end she is very healthy and wants desperately to move back to oregon and be on her own.

      we wonder if we made the right decision both for us and for her.  it was an emotional decision during an extremely emotional time.

      in the case cited, the mother had 2 daughters near her. so it wasn't as though she was alone and again the advice was to be able to travel quickly.  i know too that sibling relationships can suffer as well during these times of stress.  of course this is all individual, but having gone through it, i think his advice was in the spirit of trying to keep her and the interests of her family in mind as well.

  • re: moving for parents illness (0 / 0)

    I love Cary Tennis and feel his advice is both sensible & soulful, even tho I disagree w/it this time.

    I grew up in a not very enlightened Boston suburb and by my early 20's was done w/it and moved to CA where I met DH. When we were newlyweds my mom died leaving my ill dad & developmentally delayed sister. DH-who is a saint-packed up the condo and back East we went for 6 years. It was rewarding & exhausting and we have never rergretted being in a place personally and professionally where we could do it. Still, we missed CA and my DH finally got that snow is not a recreational substance, at least not in MA.

    When my dad died we sold the house and moved-with my sister-back to Northern California, where we have lived happily for the last decade.  As the kids have gotten older we have developed a support network of friends & neighbors who have spelled us when kids were sick, when i had to work late, and so on, and DH & I have been present for them & their kids too. But I'm a little envious when friends can sneak away for an entire weekend b/c grandparents have the kids, but that's our reality and I'm grateful for the life I have.  The combo of move to care for parent/moving aging sibling worked for us at different times. Hopefully I'll never have to move again, tho-this is my place.

  • just moved back (0 / 0)

    We just moved back to my hometown (not a HUGE move, it was a whopping hour and half up the Turnpike and Parkway).  

    It has been SO great so far. We get to see my mom a few times a week, instead of once a month.  

    When my husband travels, which is at least once or twice a month, I have support around now, which is so great.  

    It also helped that where we moved back to was far nicer than where we moved from, much prettier. all little hills and mountains and winding roads.

  • in the end, family, not mine (0 / 0)

    Moving to Australia was always part of the package in loving DH. We have always been very honest with each other, and I knew from the start that DH would always go home to Australia and that being with him meant becoming more or less a permanent expatriate. I love Australia, the culture, the opportunities and this beautiful country, but as yet, it still isn't "home." I think that's why I still spend so much time thinking of the "next" expatriation. Perhaps a few more years here will change this feeling; I have been on the move through four countries in seven and a bit years, so I'm still in the habit of being nomadic, I guess.

    Having said that, I don't envision moving back to the US for anything else but care of family. My parents, thank God, are in fantastic health. Dad is turning 70 and, thus far, his only trouble is high blood pressure. Mom is turning 64, and is in nearly perfect health. They both still work and have passion for what they do. Should that change, then I feel a tremendous, if still theoretical, responsibility to do my part to care for them. Again, I've spoken of this with DH and fortunately, we're on the same page.

    • that's great to be on same page.. (0 / 0)

      when my mom got sick my dh was right there with me in figuring out how to move her and my step dad in with us.  living with your parents is another story all together however.  my folks have lived with me for last 3 years and their health is now excellent.  they are moving next week back to oregon and will live in our home in jacksonville until we sell our house here in bay area.

      it is good to be on same page together.

      m

      • theoretically, we are (0 / 0)

        I'm not too idealistic to suspect that if the pedal hit the metal, we'd have friction, which is natural. But we're at least in theoretical agreement!

        I'm glad that your folks are doing well and they're moving back to Oregon.

    • How did you decide to go for it? (0 / 0)

      Were you already in love before the conversation turned to a permanent move to Australia? Yikes, I commend you, I don't think I could have agreed to move away for good. Actually, I was the opposite ... early on, dh and I talked about how I would never leave California for more than a couple of years, if he wanted to live in New York again. Luckily, he doesn't want to do that, but it's an open offer until ds starts school.

      • yes, we were in love (0 / 0)

        but it was pretty early days. I think we'd been going out for a couple of months when this started coming into the conversation. At the time, I didn't quite know what I was getting in to; I think moving to other countries on our own was a great transition. I think if we'd moved straight to Australia, it would have been actually a bigger challenge; we live quite close to the in-laws here and they have a certain role in our lives. In contrast, in my family, like most Americans, we live pretty far apart from each other and I went away to college, so I was used to moving kinda independently of family. We had five years on our own in two countries that were not our native countries, so we solidified a really tight bond based on having nobody but each other to rely on!

        I miss my family and my friends quite a bit, naturally, but I don't miss living in the US. This will sound unbelievable, but when I was 3 years old, I can clearly remember my mom reading Madeline to me and thinking "I'd like to live in Paris one day." Plus, both sides of my family (mother and father) have generations of big country moves; I have cousins all over the damn globe, so it's not atypical.

        • It's just interesting (0 / 0)

          I think it's interesting who gets wanderlust and who doesn't. The last between countries move in my family was my grandfather: from Quebec to Minnesota - heh. And then eventually to California. Between continents would be mid-1700s (from Spain) and mid-1800s (from Ireland). Whatever gene carries wanderlust is gone.

          You got your dream to live in Paris. You definitely have the most romantic transition to marriage and parenthood that I've heard. I think the only thing that will ever get me to move is if ds decides to settle somewhere else when he has his own family. (Listen to me: "if". I'm so deluded). I am on record as saying that I will be moving whereever he ends up - although with respectable distance so as to not scare or annoy (too much) the future daughter-in-law, because I hear you on that aspect ;).

  • Son's illness (0 / 0)

    forced our move to Cincinnati. We looked high and low for the best medical care for him and ended up here.

    I love Wash DC and get the same feelings as parentalunit1 does when she goes to NYC (although I only lived in DC for 9 months):

    When I go back I immediately feel at home and truthfully it has only been recently that I don't actually weep upon the approach to the city from JFK (National in my case).  I literally "feel" it...

    I also love Ashland, Oregon, Vancouver, BC, and Nelson, BC. I'm sure I would love Toronto and Montreal, but have not been to either yet...

    It is hard living away from family. My brother is only 2 hours away, but it's not the same as when I lived in California and had my sister 15 mintues away.

  • away from home becomes home (0 / 0)

    When I moved to Australia (and like Rachel, this is home for DH...all his family is here), I didn't really know what I was getting into. When I was 21, it all seemed like a big adventure. And I wanted to do something exciting. Moving to Australia was it! The first two years that I was here, I just felt lost. Although there were parts that I loved, I didn't think it would ever be home...my accent didn't help. You stick out like a sore thumb when you open your mouth. That made me very self conscious, and very uncertain about how I fit in. I didn't think we would be here past the three years that I had agreed to.

    After two trips back home to Virginia, I realized that I no longer fit in there, either. My world view had expanded, but the people that I had left behind hadn't changed. Although the mountains (you Rocky Mountain people can just stop giggling...we love our Appalachians!) were beautiful, and I had forgotten just how green it is...and coming around that last curve to home and seeing the mountains and valleys of home made me catch my breath...I just wasn't a Virginian anymore. In fact, I wasn't really American anymore. I'm not Australian. I'm not American. I'm a new breed. The international citizen. My accent sounds funny to everyone. My sensibilities are the result of growing up for 21 years in one place, and then growing up as an adult in another place for 10 years. I just don't fit. But that's okay. I've learned that I am fairly unique...and lots of people love me for my uniqueness. And now flying into Perth makes me catch my breath as well. Those white sand beaches and broccoli trees...the scent of burning gum trees...the WA twang coming over the loudspeaker. This is home. This is my childrens' home. I'm happy here. My children will be international citizens as well...they just aren't the same as the kids here who don't travel except for a bus tour of Europe when they're 18. They have two passports, and a mum and dad who are comfortable in different places. I expect that they will leave here and live overseas when they grow up. That makes me sad...but proud too in a way. I'm raising global citizens.

    • exactly that (0 / 0)

      you manage to encapsulate a lot of what I feel. Although I'm a little bit disappointed; I must admit, I keep hoping that eventually the feeling of not quite fitting in would fade with the years.

      • It will.... (0 / 0)

        Give it time. I've been here longer than you. I get surprised now when someone comments on my accent. I've genuinely forgotten that I have one!

        • I don't think I sound strange (0 / 0)

          is the thing - I've lived overseas now for seven-ish years, and have lived with an Aussie for eight years, so I think he sounds normal and I think I sound normal. It's odd...

          BTW, isn't "give it time" the answer to just about everything!?

          • Yup. (0 / 0)

            And also the most annoying answer that anyone can ever give you. The only answer that might be worse is "you'll understand when you're older". I've hated that one since I was a little kid!

            I don't hear anyone's accent anymore! People get insulted because I haven't noticed their strong Scottish (or whatever) accent. But I've just tuned it out, I think. Everyone sounds equally weird now!

            • oh, good (0 / 0)

              I thought it was just me. About the only friggin' accent I can pick out with 100% regularity is the South African accent. And, strangely, I'm pretty good with Kiwi accents. That "i" will give it away every time. But English/Scottish/Irish/Aussie - fuggedaboudit.

  • I ventured West (0 / 0)

    from the East Coast when I was 21.  I had promised a good friend whose parents had been killed in a house fire when we were 16 and in school together that I would travel west with her if she ever wanted to go.  We took a trip to Europe together after high school and found that we were easy travel companions...so a few years later she bought a Winnebago and we piled inside and hit the road.

    After we drove cross country and down the western coastline, I was intending to stay in California only for a couple of weeks and then return home to Connecticut.  But one thing led to another and I ended up finding a job, liking California and extending my stay week by week, month by month.  Finally, it seemed I wasn't going back.  That was in 1976 and I've been in California ever since.  I have lived in San Diego, San Francisco, La Canada (L.A. area) and now in Lafayette (East Bay area).

    It has been difficult at times with no immediate family close by.  That was a huge tradeoff and was particularly difficult when my Mom became very ill and died.  Traveling back east to help her and my Dad while I was mothering two small children was extremely difficult.  I'm not even sure how I managed it, as my DH traveled extensively for work at the time.  In order to travel to see my parents, I would have to line up care for my kids since my DH was often not available.  It was brutal.

    Having family close and knowing that you can rely on someone in an emergency is a support whether you actually need that help or not.  Friends, of course, will help too, but generally I've found that close friends are typically also bogged down with their own families and similar needs.

    It never was so difficult that we contemplated moving though.   There are things I miss besides family.  I loved the more extreme seasons and the snow, but I adore California for a million reasons related to its geography and landscape. And if you pay attention, northern California offers a good deal in the way of seasonal changes.   I think it's one of the most beautiful and diverse areas in the world.

    Soon DH and I will contemplate what to do when our kids are completely on their own....where will we go?  I imagine we'll still spend most of our time here in California, although we'll have much more freedom to explore this huge state.  And, if we tire of that, we'll take off for other parts, but I think we'll always call this state our home.

    • Melbourne!? (0 / 0)

      come visit Australia!

    • Seasonal Changes (0 / 0)

      "... northern California offers a good deal in the way of seasonal changes."

      Oh, for sure!  I live in Sacramento, and can get to snow in a very short time.  It depends on the year, but Pollack Pines is often snow-covered, and is closer to us than SF.  Yet, there is never snow in Sacramento.  (Well, a couple of times, but never enough to even ride a sled.)  This way, my children got to play in the snow, sled, etc. every year.  And I didn't have the hassle of slogging through snow to get them to school or me to work.

      As I have often said about Sacramento:  It is great because it is near to lots of fun things.  SF, the snow, Reno, etc.

  • Why for the love of God (0 / 0)

    does anyone choose to live in Minnesota? This is what DH and I were wondering yesterday when it was  negative 14. Today, slightly warmer, it is negative six.  

    DH is from MN. I moved here to go to law school. It's an affordable top-tier school, two things that don't often go together. Plus I wanted to live in a city after four years on a tiny college campus. Much longer story short, DH and I got married and settled here. Here, in this godforsaken freezer where winter only lasts for seven months if you're lucky.

    Our jobs are here, and that's why we stay, plus this is a decent place to raise a family-- MN tends to rank above average for income, education, health, and a host of other factors that contribute to a good quality of life.

    Ask me again in summer why I live here. It's to f*&$^% cold today for me to think straight.

  • Ohio, here (0 / 0)

    I moved here 19 years ago to go to college.  I always planned on moving back to Florida when I graduated, until I met DH.  I'm not originally from there (original Chicagoan), but my whole family was there as well as a lot of college friends.  Then, I thought I could talk him into moving to Florida.  That never really happened, as DH's roots are pretty deep here.  

    So here I am 19 years, a dog, a house, and two kids later.  I have no ambition to move back to Florida now.  It's weird... I still miss the beach and the warm weather, but I finally feel like where I live is home.  For years I used to say "I'm not from here, I just live here"... but now I do feel FROM here.  I love my house and the school district my kids go to.  I can't imagine being anywhere else.  

    DH is retiring soon, and will go back to work at the same place.  My mother had a health scare 18 months ago while visiting us and ended up in the hospital.  She actually relocated back up north to be near us this past summer.  So far, I think she's glad she did it... even though the winters are so much harsher than north Florida.  It's been good for us too, having the help.  And, my children have a relationship w/their grandmother that they wouldn't have if there were 900 miles between us.  

    I think deciding to move is a totally individual decision.  For some, it may not be so easy to pick up and move if they work in a field where there aren't many job opportunities.  Whatever works for each family is what's best.

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

    by 1plain1peanut on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:28:31 AM PDT

  • Seasons of life (0 / 0)

    So much talk about seasons and weather in this conversation made me think about the seasons of our lives. How does Mr. Tennis know that the season of this woman's life isn't about to change?

    I grew up in the Denver suburbs, home of 300 days of sunshine every year. I loved growing up in the wild west with it's gigantic skies, howling coyotes and mountains in the distance. However, I have no desire to move back. It's brown, dry, flat (the metro area anyway), and now it's overly congested.

    I lived briefly back east while DH was in school, but that really was not for me. I felt so claustrophobic there.

    Then it was on to the Midwest. Who can say why it felt right? The weather on our first visit was -25 with blowing snow. But it felt like the right place to be, and now almost 10 years later, it still is.

    I couldn't give up the water and the greenery of the midwest. I still get the wide open spaces that I remember from my Colorado childhood (and the occasional howling coyote), but I also get lakes and rivers and rolling hills. My kids play in the woods and visit working farms. They can swim in lakes and play outside in subzero weather. There are deer in the backyard, and the people  here actually CRAVE the outdoors after our long winters.

    This is certainly the place for this season of my life. Who knows what will be next? (I admit, I am kind of hoping for a Florida season eventually!)

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