Mother Talkers

Americans’ Obsession With Marriage

by Elisa

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:56:45 PM PDT

Thanks to Salon’s broadsheet, I began reading the comments to this Newsweek “My Turn,” by a woman who decided not to legally marry her life partner who proposed to her.

When I read the original piece, I thought nothing of it. In her column, Emeryville, Calif. writer Bonnie Eslinger, wrote she did not need a “piece of paper” to validate her relationship with partner Jeff. Here are the reasons she cited:

I don't need a white dress to feel pretty, and I have no desire to pretend I'm virginal. I don't need to have Jeff propose to me as if he's chosen me. I don't need a ring as a daily reminder to myself or others that I am loved. And I don't need Jeff to say publicly that he loves me, because he says it privately, not just in words but in daily actions.

Our married friends say you can make a wedding—and a marriage—what you want, but that is not true. It's a specific institution with defining principles and values. If it weren't, there wouldn't be so-called marriage-protection laws in the majority of this country's states.

And for me, that's the bottom line when I consider cashing in on all the benefits our heterosexual relationship is entitled to. My gay friends can't do that. I don't want to send a message to anyone, including my daughter—who may someday choose a same-sex life partner—that the value of her relationships can be determined by law and the affirmation of others.

Jeff and Bonnie plan to have a commitment ceremony without clergy or the state. The reason she wrote this piece for Newsweek -- at least this is my interpretation -- is because she hopes that family will show up to the commitment ceremony; that she is tired of nosy questions such as, “When are you going to get married?” -- which, BTW, should be filed away with the annoying “When are you going to have a baby?” -- or, the insinuation that her relationship is less “real” because they are not legally married.

My husband and I did go the legal route, although no one except the judge and a security guard and clerk who acted like our witnesses actually saw it. We decided to get the "piece of paper" because my husband needed health benefits from me and we wanted to legally protect the children we planned to have. I do think there are financial benefits to marriage especially if you start out young and broke like us.

But we also had  a non-legal and non-denominational commitment ceremony in El Salvador, which was met with skepticism by especially older family members. DH’s grandmother refused to show up because “it doesn’t mean anything.” My grandmother almost did not go because there was no priest at the wedding. At the end of the ceremony, which was marked by a bonfire at the beach and the writing of our own vows, she told me it was the most beautiful ceremony she had ever witnessed. There you go.

  • ::

That said, the questions leading up to the ceremony and all the pestering were annoying.

Like Salon’s Carol Lloyd, I found myself shaking my head at some of the reader comments to Eslinger’s piece, such as this gem:

My biggest issue right now is the hype with wich emdeecee is rejecting every rejection of this article.

Feminism is about female equality, not selfish power. Feminisim is about being viewed as a human being worth respect, not as a "man" (which really goes against feminism, to think that we should be treated just like men).

There are TWO halves of this species - male and female. We work together to make this world work. Neither is more superior than the other (including ms bonnie and emdeecee). Each one has their own strengths and weaknesses. RESPECTING eachother is crucial.

Ms. Bonnie was proposed to by a man who wanted to get married, but she did not respect HIS wish, and instead continued to indulge in her own. HE wanted committment and to display his committment in a bond that (if broken) could potentially hurt him more than her. He was willing to sacrifice his own autonomy and put his trust in her committment to him by seeking a legally binding union with the woman he loved.

SHE spurned the marriage idea, in acceptance of an individualized relationship that both are free to walk out of with no repercussions (except some hurt feelings). She does not need to put any trust in his devotion as far as legal standings go, she is as committed as my 16 year old brother is to his girlfriend.

THIS is not feminism at its finest. It does not uphold the idea that woman are equal to men, it does not uphold the strengths that women have (on a social or individual level). It tears down a social institution that may be abused, may have lost some cultural relevance due to that abuse, but is no less relevant (and if you disagree, provide me with good reasons why not).

Believe it or not, life is not relative. It actually is not all about you.

(Begin the parade of 5 year olds all crying out "ME ME ME")

There were similar anti-feminist rants, including "even Gloria Steinem got married!" Whatever.

Again, I do think there are legal protections and benefits to marriage. But if you don’t want them, then -- who cares? I cannot muster the strength to get worked up over someone who doesn’t want to get married. And no, I do not view someone else’s decision to marry or not marry as a threat to my own marriage. If anything, let’s leave marriage to the people who actually want it. Sheesh.

Tags: marriage obsession, Newsweek, My Turn, Salon, broadsheet, Bonnie Eslinger, feminism, Jeff (all tags)

Permalink | 28 comments

  • I read this column in the magazine. (0 / 0)

    My reaction was, "Eh."

    I did find her tone condescending, like she's obviously so much more enlightened than the dolts who choose to get married.

    Me, I could not care less whether people choose to marry or not. I think marriage is all about the two people involved, and it will flourish or die depending on said people. The institution itself certainly doesn't create loving, supportive families and relationships. You only need to look at the divorce rate to know that.

    We are celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary this weekend with a trip to Sonoma wine country. For me, marriage has been a fun ride.

    by Erika on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:21:57 PM PDT

    • I tend to agree (0 / 0)

      I guess the "I don't need a piece of paper" seems to me to imply that I got married because I "needed" a "piece of paper" to feel committed to my DH.

      I did not need a piece of paper and frankly, marriage is a lot more than a piece of paper to me. I was raised in a religious tradition where marriage is an important commitment.

      Now, I could not care less whether she wants to get married. I would not speculate negative things about her for choosing not to get married. I get that perhaps some people in her life are doing that. But the tone still seemed condescending.

      Oh, and apologies, Erika, if I tacked on to agree with you and then went beyond the bounds of what you were saying. I got a bit carried away.

      by Lisa in Austin on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:44:48 PM PDT

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    • I'm with you (0 / 0)

      I think she and her partner should do whatever they feel is right for them.  And to please choose not to condescent to those of us who chose something else.

      I bristled at her description of marriage as institution.  It seemed so impersonal.  And judgmental.  

      I did go the legal route in my marriage to pastordan - but I'm also sure that it is not a surpise to anyone here that it was not the legal partnership that mattered to us.  It was the covenant we made to God and  each other that mattered.  And still does, every damn day that we are together.  Just because my ceremony came with a piece of paper I'm supposed to believe that it's less of a commitment than hers?

      Jen

      by MrsPastor on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:55:18 PM PDT

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      • i am thinking (0 / 0)

        that perhaps it is more that she experiences constant scrutiny and comment on the fact that she does NOT have a piece of paper, which i am sure comes across as many feeling her commitment is "less than."

        i know i felt that for a long time in my long term relationship.

        i have come to understand that some people, well, they just don't want or don't need to get married. where i live, lots of people will bug you about it, and it gets really, really old. maybe that is where she was coming from.

        We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

        by lorin on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:03:18 PM PDT

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        • possibly (0 / 0)

          I know some families are always bugging about something - when are you getting married, when are you having kids, when are those kids going to read.....it does get frustrating.

          Jen

          by MrsPastor on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:05:14 PM PDT

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        • Quite honestly (0 / 0)

          I think that is one of the chief benefits of marriage, that it's just so much easier when describing your relationship to outsiders to say "my husband" instead of my (whatever).  Unfortunately, our society as yet does not have a single obvious, clear and good word for committed long term partner.

          For me, when we got married it didn't make any difference in how we felt.  It just meant it was easier for people like my grandparents to understand and approve of our relationship.

          Katherine

          by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:39:25 AM PDT

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        • thanks for sharing that, Lorin (0 / 0)

          I see your point. If I was always being attacked, I would be defensive.

          by Lisa in Austin on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:43:11 AM PDT

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  • rituals... (0 / 0)

    whatever makes your boat float is my opinion.  however, for me, marriage is about the importance of ritual and significant events in our lives that our supported by the community you build.  i feel the same way about funerals :)  i like the cultural aspects of these rituals passed from generation to generation.

    so i agree with all above when saying please don't minimize what i chose to do ...it isn't simply a piece of paper for many, dare i say most?

    by parentalunit1 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:59:43 PM PDT

  • with you both (0 / 0)

    Someone wants to get married? Hooray. They don't? Hooray. Does it affect me? Not a bit.

    Speaking personally and individually, DH was deeply concerned about proposing to me before we moved overseas; for him, it was vitally important to make this commitment before we set out for Paris in 2000. He felt a tremendous responsibility in that it was his work that brought us there and he wanted to signal that he was dedicated to our partnership. It wasn't something I really spent much time thinking about, but I was deeply honored when he proposed and really loved all the sentiments behind the proposal.

    I have to say I have sympathy with hetero couples who refuse to get married because gay couples can't. I can see the logic of their argument, although I don't see how this is enough of an act of protest to actually do something about ending discrimination against gay couples.

    by Rachel on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:00:58 PM PDT

    • DH proposed to me (0 / 0)

      the night before he left for a job across the country.  We had decided to have him go first and make sure the job was a good fit before I gave up my business, friends, etc. to join him there. He proposed for the same reasons it sounds like your DH did: It was the honorable thing to do when uprooting someone you love.

      However, I could not accept the proposal at that time.  DH looked so pained!  It seemed like it was all about a feeling of obligation to me, and he had not really worked through his feelings (fears) about marriage.  No, thanks.  I asked him to try again when he was feeling more joyful about it!  We were married a couple of years later.

      by mamacita on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 07:59:38 AM PDT

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      • awww (0 / 0)

        I imagine your second proposal was much more joyful! I have to say, I was totally surprised by DH's proposal; he worked through it all in his head before the big question. It was lovely and teary and all that.

        by Rachel on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:25:46 PM PDT

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  • My theory on why people get all worked up (0 / 0)

    about stuff like this--it is a safe outlet for moral outrage.

    No one is harmed by gay marriage or by two people living together without benefit of marriage.  Therefore, if you choose to rant and shout about it, you don't have to actually ACT on your rage.  You can scream and shout as much as you want, but no action on your part is necessary.

    Now, if instead you decide to get vocal about something that actually IS hurting people--poverty, inequitable funding for schools, domestic violence--you might actually feel the need to DO something.

    by mkkendrick on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:07:05 PM PDT

  • We thought about not getting married (0 / 0)

    We were already totally committed to each other for life, so didn't really see the point of marriage.  Everything was fine how it was.

    However, we realized that legally speaking, it made sense to get married.  So we had the smallest wedding possible -- you don't even need witnesses in my state, so there were 4 people total (including us).  We were young (22 and 23) are our parents felt sort of left out of the whole thing, so they threw us parties after the fact.  Our relationship didn't change at all after marriage.

    I did consider the whole gay marriage factor when making our decision.  Although now gay marriage is legal in my state, so not so much of an issue.

    I guess we felt like if we were planning to have kids and live as married people do, it just made sense to get married.  I knew someone whose life partner died in a plane crash and there was a settlement as a result, but she didn't receive anything since they weren't married.

    by Treena on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:34:07 PM PDT

    • So true (0 / 0)

      there are benefits to being married that you cannot replicate even with lots of legal documents.

      Which, of course, is a part of the point of being for marriage rights being extended to all regardless of sexual orientation.

      by Lisa in Austin on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:41:36 AM PDT

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  • Gay couples are fighting to get married (0 / 0)

    They want the option because it carries real meaning.  Getting married is a public, legal, and, in some cases, religious commitment.  Have as small and simple a wedding as you want, but I think its counts for more that a commitment ceremony.  That's why its an important civil right for gays.  

    by louise the dog on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:45:59 PM PDT

    • Agreed (0 / 0)

      I felt different after we got married.  The rituals have a purpose, and the public profession of committment has had real meaning to me over the 14 years we have been married.  I adore DH, but during some of the low points of our marriage, I have relied on our wedding vows to remind me that we are in it forever.  

      Right or wrong, society views marriages as much more serious relationships than unmarried but committed couples.  Marriage by any other name is not an acceptable alternative for gay couples.  They deserve to have their committed relationships respected just like any other.

      by coobert on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:23:13 PM PDT

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  • unenlightened dolt here (0 / 0)

    I agree with Erika-- she did sound very condescending.

    Get married, or not, whatever floats your boat. Just make sure your rights and wishes are protected by other legal means--for instance, by having up-to-date and valid wills.

    I'm a pragmatist. When outsiders look at DH's and my relationship, they assume immediately that we are exclusively committed to each other for a long period of time. They assume our kids consider us their parents. I like people making these assumptions because they are true and save me the trouble of explaining. DH can use my health insurance, visit me in the hospital, inherit my 401K. These are all nice, practical benefits of marriage.

    I do think it's ridiculous that not all people can get married and enjoy these benefits. Hopefully that will change sooner rather than later. But boycotting marriage-- who does it hurt? It's not like there's a Marriage Company that will take a hit to their bottom line because some people opt out. Do you think some crazy marriage fundies care what DH and I do? Like anyone is going to say, "Oh, those people are not getting married out of solidarity with gay couples. How touching! I've changed my mind, let's let everyone get married." Again, the pragmatist.

    by minnmom on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:12:32 AM PDT

    • Yeah.. (0 / 0)

      I don't get "boycotting marriage" either.  I don't see that as feminism either.  

      Boy if Bonnie feels that way about traditional marriage, white wedding dress and all, she'd probably flip over the Disney princess wedding gowns LOL.  I think Elisa wrote a diary about those a while back but I can't find the link.

      "If it's not Scottish, it's crap!" ~Mike Meyers

      by 1plain1peanut on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:09:21 AM PDT

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    • ITA (0 / 0)

      ITA.  She sounded very condescending.  I'm thinking she was looking for some sort of approval, via writing the piece, of her choice.

      Marriage has major benefits, whether emotionally or legally, if you can even split the two apart, which I don't think you can. That's why it's something everyone should have access to.

      BTW, allegedly, Brad and Angelina aren't getting married either out of solidarity with the fight for gay marriage, so they say.  It's totally possible knowing them, but the fact that they don't need the legal protections of marriage or access to each other's health plans must play in too.

      by NJmom on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 07:20:07 AM PDT

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  • I blame the United States INS (0 / 0)

    for DH and me getting married :-)

    We were completely broke after grad school, but after living in different countries for 4 year we were ready to continue our life together. DH got a job in the US and for me to legally join him there we had to get married, so we did. This was 7.5 years ago and I'm not sure that we would have got married otherwise.

    I must say it saved us LOTS of paperwork though, also with our subsequent move to Swizterland and then back home.

    Since same-sex couples can marry legally here, and registered partnerships (no matter what the make-up of the couple) also give almost all the same legal rights and obligations, marriage really isn't considered that big a deal in the Netherlands. Still, a lot of people do get married (and have big weddings), but it seems mostly a way of celebrating their relationship with their friends and family.

    by SwissClogs on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:17:43 PM PDT

    • I can blame French immigration too! (0 / 0)

      We came over to Paris engaged and had planned to have a year or two engagement period, but discovered that in order for me to get a residency visa to stay in France, we had to be married within, like, 120 days of our first entry into France!! So we arrived in November 2000, found this out right around the time Elisa and Markos got married (and I remember this because I'd had their date on my calendar to remember to send a card and thought later, hmmm, funny coincidence!) and we got married in February 2001, the day after DH's 30th birthday!

      So I blame the French for our marriage date! ;-)

      by Rachel on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:23:52 PM PDT

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    • Us, too (0 / 0)

      DH is Canadian and, after exhausting all other options, we had to get married to keep him in the country. We most likely would not have been married otherwise.
      In fact, I really like the idea of not getting married in solidarity with our LGBT friends/family - I don't see anything condescending or off putting about that at all.

      by GiGi on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 11:25:29 AM PDT

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  • changed my mind (0 / 0)

    When my partner and I decided to make a commitment to each other, we had a full blown wedding -- albeit an alternative one, with pink dress, in local park, with our favorite Mexican food, and no registry -- but skipped the legality, in solidary with gay and lesbians denied these rights.  Three years later, after the birth of our baby, and the sudden deaths of two friends, we went to city hall and got married for one reason only -- social security survivor benefits.  We had done everything else to paper over not being married -- wills, pooled money, health care proxy, life insurance -- but you can't do anything about this serious chunk of change from the feds.  We're not 100% at peace with it, but feel we did the right thing to take care of our family, and continue to support HRC and other groups working for full marriage equality.  It's a terribly hard decision.

    by kim on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 08:35:33 PM PDT

  • Social Security Survivor Benefits? (0 / 0)

    Hhhm. Maybe Romeo and I should get married? We have two children together, and have five all together. We have been together for 7 years, we own a house, have a business together, and are 100% committed. We both have living trusts and our own wills.

    He has proposed a few times over the years, I have always said "yes", but we never make it to the planning stage - we always seem to find more important things to spend our money on (i.e buying a house or paying off our cars). BUT, I never considered the legal benefits to being "officially" married. I'm going to have to bring it up tonight.

    What I hate are all the questions from people. The when's and the why's... my reply is that I am a gay man and am waiting for them to make it legal (he replies that he is a lesbian and is waiting too). We're a match from all angles!

    by sandrab on Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 06:20:40 PM PDT

  • Canada (0 / 0)

    We got married in Canada, in part because we were really uncomfortable with doing it in the US where our best man was not allowed to marry his partner.  

    Though, honestly, I haven't seen any benefits from it.  We both have good jobs with insurance, so that wasn't an issue.  The only change we noticed was that we were allowed to drive each other's rental cars.  That and our taxes went up by almost $10k.

    by Buphie on Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 03:59:37 PM PDT

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