Mother Talkers

Political Preschoolers

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 02:27:41 PM PDT

My 2.5 year old dd and I go to the same coffee shop several mornings a week on the way to school. Today there was a mom (who I've seen before) there with her son who looks to be about 4 years old. I haven't really talked to this mom beyond the early morning we-both-have-a-kid nicities, but I know something about her from reading the stickers on the back of her car.  

  1. She is a vegan. She believes that eating animals is cruel.
  1. She's a democrat.
  1. She's Green
  1. She wants to Coexist

All this, of course, is cool by me, until someone ruined my coffee...

What got my attention today wasn't the mom, but the little boy who was sporting some messages of his own...or were they?

He was standing next to the counter when we walked in, wearing a jean jacket with several large buttons on the front. The largest one read: "Got Pus? Milk Does"

Perfect, just what I wanted to read as I order my latte. My dd, who is fascinated with all types of jewels is immediately drawn to the buttons.

"What's that?" she asks pointing to the button. I tell her it's a button.
"What does it say?" she asks. And priding myself in being the mom who never shies away from the tough questions, I read it to her.

"What's pus?" she shouts as the barista hands me the putrid pus-coffee I had just ordered.

"Want a cookie?" I ask, ducking the question. And as I handed my daughter the treat, happy that pus was forgotten for a moment, I couldn't help but wonder about the ways in which we politicize our kids.

Granted, I am new to this mom stuff and my opinions are always changing. I just have to admit that something rubs me wrong about the thought of "Babies for Obama" onesies and the like. I want my dd to grow up with a foundation of tolerance and education that will guide her toward making her own decisions and beliefs about things. Is this idealistic?

And while I am fully aware that our family views and values are the foundation of her belief system, I also don't think it's my job to burden her with causes she can't even understand. I started reading about politics and kids and got a lot of hits for this book titled, "Why Mommy Is A Democrat".For the record, I trend very liberal on lots of issues but this seems like a total joke.

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim to be unbiased or strive to produce a clean slate of a kid, but doesn't this sort of stuff just perpetuate the partisan, divided, us-versus-them thinking that is such a problem today?

What do you other politically minded moms think? Do we burden our kids too early?

By the way, I never could finish my coffee....

Tags: politics, kids, advocacy, preschool, democrat, partisan, divided (all tags)

Permalink | 53 comments

  • I don't know about burdening children too quickly (0 / 0)

    but I try to avoid inculcating prejudices too quickly. I'm a very political person by nature (although I hardly register on the DailyKos measure!), I've gotten my husband more politically aware by conversational default, and, logically, my daughter is aware as well. At 2 1/2, she can identify the prime minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, the deputy prime minister, Julia Gillard, Dubya and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton (JE gets less press over here in Australia, so she sees fewer pictures of him. It is what it is.).

    I try not to indulge in teaching her to parrot my views in a simplistic way, because I don't think it's kind to her. I want her to come to political views on her own, not learn to repeat what I say. So I restrain my most basic responses like wanting to hurl objects at the TV every time I see Dubya or throw out a "you go, girl" when I see Ms. Gillard. I just save them for the late news broadcasts!

    I have to say, though, that Jess is very observant in ways that I like - the other day she told me that Dubya has an "angry smile." Not a bad observation!

    • Oh, he so does (0 / 0)

      Your girl is a perceptive kid.

      • either that (0 / 0)

        or it reminds me of Oliver Sachs and his book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat. He tells this anecdote about a roomful of aphasics who watched Ronald Reagan's speeches and roared with laughter.

    • reminds me of a funny story (0 / 0)

      my daughter is aware as well. At 2 1/2, she can identify the prime minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, the deputy prime minister, Julia Gillard, Dubya and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton

      Before I had kids, I was over at an acquaintance's house and I ended up watching TV for a bit with her three or four year old son. There was a guy on the TV with long dreadlocks and he was playing a bongo drum. The kid asked me, "Who is that?"
      And I answered truthfully, "I don't know."
      And then he offered, "Maybe it's Bush."
      My reply: "Could be."

  • inappropriate... (0 / 0)

    i agree with you. to me it is using your child and that just isn't cool imo. i was fairly upset that my ex used my dd to help him sell anti dem tshirts at a fair when she was 10 years old. totally respect his right to make money any way he'd like, but was not happy with using my daughter as the schill.

    now exposing your children to political activities like voting or rallies?  that seems appropriate.  but using your child as your billboard?  no.

    • That's where I think the line is too (0 / 0)

      We share our political opinions freely with our boys. If you ask my seven year old what he thinks of our president, I'm sure he will politely explain that Bush is doing a bad job because that's what we've told him we believe.  But I'm not a big fan of having kids wear slogans that they don't fully understand.  (Especially really gross ones!!)

  • political kids (0 / 0)

    My 6 year old is fascinated by the election.  I generally keep NPR on in the car, and he usually asks to wait in the car while I pick up his brother from preschool, so he can continue listing to Robert Siegel's latest primary analysis.  I kid you not.

    He's rather into identity politics, though.  He supports Obama mainly because of his skin color.  He feels I should be for Clinton and makes me defend my support of Edwards.  Ever try to discuss health care policy with a 6 year old?  How about Clinton's Iraq and Iran votes?  He wants me to be specific.

    We were hit up by an enthusiastic campaigner last week, and now my 5 year old plans to vote for "the guy who we talked about at the farmer's market".  I decided against explaining why brown people don't vote for Ron Paul.

  • Don't get me wrong (0 / 0)

    I don't think the lady is uncool or a bad mom or anything I just haven't thought about this subject much yet, and wanted to explore a bit why it bugged me. I think you are right though Rachel, that's it's more about being aware of passing on particular political prejudices. I just hope to be able to present things to my child in a way that begets tolerance and critical thinking. Something like...."Some people believe XYZ, what do you think?" KWIM?

    • exactly (0 / 0)

      I didn't get the feeling that you were passing judgement on the woman's philosophies.

      I agree with you that the goal is to foster kids'  critical thinking skills, rather than drilling them to repeat exactly what we tell them. OTOH, I'll be mortified if Jess turns into a conservative!!!

  • Ugh (0 / 0)

    Ugh.  Bumper stickers.  Not a fan.

    I don't really want to know how someone votes, or eats, or anything else by reading the back of their car.  Nor do I want people to know that about me from reading mine.  Whether strangers, or acquaintances, or friends.

    I guess if you live in a politically-homogenous area and you never leave there, it's ok.  But if you don't, it just causes unnecessary friction.

    Putting pins on kids, well, I won't even go there!

  • in a weird way (0 / 0)

    it reminds me of people who put their kids in beauty pagaents or otherwise objectify them.

    They're people, not accessories.

  • Could someone explain? (0 / 0)

    I don't understand what pus and milk have to do with each other. Maybe I don't want to know...

    • mastitis (0 / 0)

      BST increases the risk of bovine mastitis.  I don't know if there is any difference between rBST (the recombinant version) and ordinary BST in this, but it seems to be used as an argument against the recombinant form.  The problem is that mastitis (which by the way any cow can get) has to be treated with antibiotics, which then get into our milk.

      • Ewww (0 / 0)

        I was right. Better not to know.

        • yeah (0 / 0)

          I'm glad I switched to organic milk.

          • organic cows have it too (0 / 0)

            Mastitis is not specific to BST treated cows; it only elevates the frequency by something like 25% (from memory - I could be way off here on the %).  Which means your organic cows have it at a reasonably comparable frequency.  It's a common complaint.

            I know a large animal vet who is very vocal about the unintended consequences of organic industry regulations.  He claims that the prohibition against antibiotics has resulted in needless suffering and euthanasia because (at least in some industries, I don't have particulars) once an animal is treated with antibiotics it's products can no longer be labeled as organic.  Antibiotics are not reserved for the appropriate treatment of sick animals, they're prohibited outright.  

            Cows with mastitis are supposed to be removed from the milk supply from the time they are diagnosed until a specified period of time after the infection is cured.  I hope the dairy industry doesn't have the restriction I just described, because if it does the cows are not being treated.  A dairy farm doesn't separate out the milk from a few animals, it's all or nothing.

  • yea, it's really gross (0 / 0)

    but apparently cows that are treated with artificial growth hormones have pus in their milk. As far as I understand organic milk without RGHB has less unsavory stuff in it, but is still deemed to be gross by those who oppose drinking or eating animal products. I guess as far as advocacy slogans go it's an effective (albeit disgusting, shoc-valuesque) message, but c'mon let me enjoy my latte for gosh sake!!!

  • There's a line (0 / 0)

    I have a t-shirt I got for my daughter when she was 2.  It says, Outsource Bush '04.  She wore it political rallies and Dem. meetings, otherwise it was a strictly in the house shirt. There's a high level of distaste seeing kids politicized.  No matter the subject.  The hip thing in my old neighborhood were babies wearing pro-bfing onesies (those ones that make women who don't/can't BF seem worse than Hitler...you know the ones).  Even that crossed my invisible line.

    I don't hide my politics from my kid, but I do make her aware of why someone is not my Hit List.  She understands fairness.  I just couldn't see putting her in a shirt spouting my candidate du jour or in a Stop War shirt.  She's my kid, not my billboard.

    • good point (0 / 0)

      She's my kid, not my billboard

      Now there's a onsie that's dying to be made: "I am not advertising space."

      • There's my line too (0 / 0)

        and even when it pertains to OshKosh, Gap and Old Navy.   I don't like to wear clothes that advertise and I don't buy them for my kids - I make an exception when it's a hand me down from my rich sister in law...if it's a used Gap shirt then they can wear it.   I'm weird like that.  

        For myself, I have huuuuuge boobs so any kind of statement on them is a really big statement and I don't need anyone having any kind of excuse to stare at the boobages.

        I childproofed my house but they got back in somehow.

        by lonestar canuck on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:28:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • I'm with you (0 / 0)

          I hate label clothes; I avoid them with Jess, which thus far hasn't been too difficult.

          I'm with you on the statement shirts, too; I'm not overly endowed (C cup), but no excuses for extra ogling, please!!

  • kids, politics, and hate (0 / 0)

    My son asked about people arguing on tv a few years ago, and I explained that they were talking about Bush, saying he told lies. He asked if that was true, and I told him, yes, Bush said things that were not true. Since then he has a seething hatred of Bush - who gets away with telling lies, something my son would never get away with doing! For a long time, my son believed his grandma in Texas did not love him, because "how can she love me? She likes Bush!" and in his either/or world, that made sense. I try to tell him - EVEN I do not hate Bush, just feel he is making too many mistakes and harming the country, and I wish he would make "good choices." I don't want him to add to the polarizing in this country - it has been hard enough for me to endure the 70s AND the years since 2000 being told I am unpatriotic for not supporting yet another foolish war.
    He is a tough kid, with strong opinions of his own, but I try to stay more neutral with him than I might be in private, adult conversation.

  • Well... (0 / 0)

    Living out in a rural, suburbian, conservative area, we seem to be bombarded with messages on kids and cars from the right.  So, I feel like our lefty messages just level the playing field.  Though I don't think it's appropriate for a 4 year old to wear a button about pus and milk, (just something I think a kid that young doesn't need to know about) I don't think it's a big deal if they wear a noninflammatory political shirt (like Hillary or Edwards for president) or whatever.  

    There was a recent thread about religion and someone said that kids will end up making their own choices when they get older.  I think the same holds true for politics.  My kids may hear my opinions now, but when they get older they'll have the opportunity to make their own decisions regarding politics.  

  • Gah. Stories like these make me want to (0 / 0)

    make big huge buttons for me and Liza to wear that say "Oh GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY"

    as left wing liberal as I am I have no tolerance for the smugness of buttons and tshirts like this on adults let alone on their kids.  Seeing a button like that would make me want to loudly order a BIG TALL GLASS OF COLD MILK PLEASE.  Just like dining out with one of the most obnoxious vegetarians in history (a college friend) alway smade me order a bacon cheeseburger ;-)

    • heheheh (0 / 0)

      Pulp Fiction: "bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good."

      You and I would get into serious trouble if we ran into a bunch of sanctimonious people, Katie. Even if I'm down with the sentiment (in principle), I can't help but prick balloons. I have a lot of fun at our local environmental park - that's the scene of the infamous breastmilk/sell/fetish people story...

      • do tell Rachel.. (0 / 0)

        no fair, I'm new here. What, pray tell, is the breastmilk/sell/fetish story?

        • oh, sorry (0 / 0)

          I hate sanctimony in all forms - even from my "side." We live in a neighborhood in Melbourne that's on the hippy/earth mother/bobo scale of things and we live around the corner from this fantastic park dedicated to environmental education, indigenous/Aboriginal education, organic farming, yadda, yadda, yadda. A lot of fun, but you get the really high-and-mighty, holier-than-thou greenies there all the time.

          DD Jess and I were playing at the playground on site there one day, oh, I guess a year ago, and I got to chatting with a mother of a three or four year old kid. We were sharing breastfeeding stories because she was still breastfeeding her child and I was saying how sad I was when Jess weaned because I loved it. She goes something along the lines of, she couldn't imagine not breastfeeding because that's what a loving mother does. Well, that sent me off because, well, it's just bullsh*t. It was one of those miracle times when you think of the perfect response at the exact time you need it, and I leaned in and said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I really miss it because you can make a fortune selling breastmilk, too." The woman recoiled, so I kept going. "You know, the baby doesn't need that much and you know how much the fetish people will pay for fresh breastmilk?!"

          It was great. She up and left the place with her kid in about three minutes. ;-)

      • Liza's godfather gets so irritated (0 / 0)

        by this one particular sanctimoinous vegetarian acquaintance of ours that he once ordered a bacon cheeseburger in her presence and then said "actually could you throw a pork chop on top of that too?"  

        • niiiice (0 / 0)

          Respect to Liza's grandfather. My BIL and I have a similarly irreverent sense of humor; he's got a large-ish block of land in country Victoria and he and his partner maintain a large garden and some chickens. We joke all the time about the chickens' names: Freezer, Freezer, Broiler, Soup Pot and Stock.

    • I know that feeling (0 / 0)

      I worked for one month at Borders.  It was only one month because I couldn't stand the people I worked with.  They were militant vegetarians/PETA people.  And they were as dumb as rocks.  Seriously, one of them used to complain about how her boyfriend was in jail for setting lab animals free.  The whole concept of civil disobedience was lost on them.  I don't even like red meat but I could recall really wanting to eat a cheeseburger in front of them.

  • Develop an interest young (0 / 0)

    I am very politically active - a policy wonk and have been for most of my adult life. I take my civic duty very seriously. I want Campbell to be the same.

    That said I want her to be an independent thinker so, once she is old enough to understand the generalities of politics and the election process, etc. I will openly share my opinions as well as explain those of others.  Basically I will give her the facts and let her developing mind shift and grow and the opinions she espouses change as she matures.  I will not use my independent thinking child to air my political preferences like the ex-husband mentioned in an earlier post who used his 10 year old.

    That said, I admit to having a bib for Campbell that reads "If I were old enough I'd vote for Barack Obama" But she is 7 months old so I think it's just funny at this point since she obviously doesn't know Barack Obama from Dora the Explorer.  

  • Yes, we do (0 / 0)

    One of the greatest things I think my parents did was never telling me who they voted for. (My dad constantly emphasized what a great gift the secret ballot is.) They never pushed an agenda with me and always kept the lines of communication open when it came to social and political issues. they made me realize that reasonable people can have completely different ideas and that partisanship gets us nowhere fast. I think they both really wanted me to make my own decisions, not follow a party line.  

    They would talk about the issues a lot, and if I took one side, my dad immediately took the other. He continued this through college. When I was in my 20s I found out he was a Republican. My mom was a Democrat. I would have guessed the opposite!

    Now I'm--you guessed it--undeclared! I have equal skepticism and admiration for both parties. I make a point of checking out the candidates individually, and I've voted Dem, Rep, Green and Independent.

    • exxxxactly! (0 / 0)

      My parents riased me with morals/values not political ideologies. I had no idea they were even Democrats even until I was old enough to get my own voters registration card. I came home with it and finally asked, "So, what are you guys anyway?"

  • Tough one... (0 / 0)

    I have 7 and 3.5 year old daughters, and I managed a mayoral campaign last year. During the primary, my 3 year old saw a picture of one of my candidate's opponents and was totally enamoured of it, "What's her name? I love her.  She's my favorite girl."  It took lots of restraint for me to explain who she was in a non-biased way.

    My 7 year old, Julia, will see Bush sometimes and say, "We don't like him, right Mom?" I always try to be measured and say, "Daddy and I don't think he's a good president" and explain why -- which often gets us into some VERY DEEP conversations.

    We also volunteered a lot for Deval Patrick's campaign for governor of MA, and I was blown away when Julia came home from school with a count of how many in her class would be voting for him in their mock election at school.  A little canvasser in the making!

    She totally thinks that she votes ("When are WE voting?"), and I do love that she's so politically aware, but I think you do have to set boundaries.  I never had her wear my candidate's pins, and when she had to write something about each of the mayoral candidates she brought literature from both candidates and wrote very objective paragraphs on both.

  • gross (0 / 0)

    I don't think it's too difficult to know that the button you described says something that is gross. Obviously, it's meant to, but come on. Have a little consideration for others who don't share your views. And then to stick it on your kid and have him be the one going around offending people, to me that's not right.

    In general, I don't politicize my kid by turning him into a billboard as fabooj put it so well. We do have a Ramones onesie for our baby that we get a kick out of. Clearly he has no idea who the Ramones are. Is that the same thing?

    • No. (0 / 0)

      A Ramones t-shirt doesn't implicity insult the people who are reading it. I think the subtext of the Pus button is "hey idiot, guess what you're drinking?! ha ha!"

      The subtext of a Ramones t-shirt is just "gabba gabba hey, we accept you," which is a pretty nice thing to say!  

  • I don't have a big problem with it (0 / 0)

    Obviously this sort of thing can go to the extreme.  When I was in college, I was a TV news intern.  We were covering a protest at an abortion clinic, and I overheard parents saying to their young children, "Now, when you see the TV camera pointed at you, yell 'Please, mommy, don't kill me,' OK?"  Admittedly, that's a pretty far line to cross, but compared to that, I don't have a problem with my kid wearing a shirt or button that expresses my beliefs, at least for something simple. I think milk/pus is a bit of a complex idea for a pre-schooler.

    I see it as the same as setting DS's religious beliefs, or leisure activities, or music choices.  Right now, he does what we do.  When he's old enough to start understanding choices, I'll certainly talk to him about tolerance, open-mindedness, & independent thinking. I don't see it as a bad thing that he is a bit of an extension of me right now, as long as I don't get creepy & obsessive about it.

    • Abortion (0 / 0)

      I have such a hard time with the (mostly) anit-abortion bumper stickers. It's not the kind of very complex information I want to impart in a parking lot after my children read it and ask.

      When my kids ask, "what does that mean?", I usually say it's a complex, grown-up topic that I will discuss with them when they are old enough.  If the bumper-sticker-offender is within earshot I say something snarky like, "It means that someone has no manners and thinks we should discuss private medical matters in public"

      I just hate being forced by someone with an agenda to have a conversation that will cause distress to my kids; I am offended when strangers feel that they have a right to force an "issue" discussion on their timeframe rather than mine.

  • I do have that coexist bumber sticker (0 / 0)

    It's the first one I've ever had.  Living here in the land of Focus on the Family, I felt like I had to say something.  I like the message because it's not offensive or critical, just a nice peaceful "can't we all get along" message.  I've only ever gotten positive comments about it.

    We do try to be careful what we tell our kids about politics and religion.  Living here especially, I'm waiting for the day they come home spouting their friends' parents' views.  We always tell them, you can believe anything you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.  They're 4 and 6, so I'm sure the conversation will get more complex as they get older.

  • Free to Be (0 / 0)

    I was a Free to Be...You and Me Kid.  I supported the ERA and was pro-choice- all before I was 10.  Now granted, this was the 70's and we were all more political then, but still- my folks explained their positions to me like I was able to understand (which I was) and then let me choose if I wanted to do anything about it.  In fact, I was more political than they were.  Still am.

    My kids (4 & 6)are Obama supporters, but that's as much a part of living in New Hampshire where the Presidential process is in your your coffee shop, your school and living room, so they've seen all the Dems in person.  I'm sure they're parroting my support at this stage, but we also try to make sure they understand the differences in the candidates and the importance of thinking for yourself.  DH even pointed out that this is one of the first primaries in which he and I have voted for the same candidate.  I think that you have start early in teaching citizenship, just like  you have to start early in teaching morality and social skills and table manners.  If you wait too long, it's too late. And too long comes way sooner than you think.

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