Mother Talkers

I haven't slept since aught- seven

by Laura

Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:57:50 AM PDT

Omigod, Laura, I can relate. Ari and Eli were both up last night at 4 a.m., laughing and giggling together. Let me assure you, this is NOT cute! I especially pleaded with Ari to go back to sleep. Not surprisingly, we were late to school this morning and I was in a foul mood. Ugh. Yes, any advice is greatly appreciated! Elisa

I know that sleep issues are mundane, trite, over-discussed and impossible to solve, but holy squash, if I don't get some sleep soon I'm not going to be responsible for my actions.

DD has always been persnickity.  She's picky about food, clothes, whatever- and usually we can work with it- it's just the way M rolls, you know?  But she hasn't slept since New Year's Eve- at least not for more than about 2 hours at a pop.  She's very clear about what she wants.  She wants to "not sleep."  I know 4's do this stuff- but usually the power struggle is over food or clothes or baths- not sleep.  I mean, I could get the whole idea of wanting a nightlight (which she has) or to sleep with us (which she wants to do but will not do while there is breath in my body)- but to reject the entire concept of sleep as something she simply chooses not to do?  Really?  This is a thing people actually do?  

I'm flummoxed.  I've talked to the pediatrician (no good advice accept to wait it out) and my shrink (who reassured me that eventually she would sleep and that I just needed to keep my head together until she did), but none of them have offered much real support in the way of "here's how to fix this problem."  And that's where I am- I need this problem fixed and I need it fixed now.  

So each night goes like this- M goes down about 7:30, begs me to "check on her" when I'm done putting her brother down, which I do.  She's always asleep at that point.  At 9:30 or so, she calls for me and accuses me (with the kind of righteous indignation only a 4-year-old can muster) of "not checking on her."  (It has now become apparent that "check on me" means "stand in my room and stare at me on the off chance I wake up.")  I settle her back down, and we repeat the dance at 2 hour intervals until 6 am.  Each awake period lasts approximately 72 hours.  (Okay, maybe 30- 45 minutes)  During those periods she (and I) become increasingly irrational and demanding- which is to be expected when one has started channeling a zombie.  Zombie's aren't big with the higher-order thinking either.

So help me MTers, you're my only hope.

(By the way, DH has been trying to do his part, but he's a second grade teacher and the results of his sleep deprivation are much gnarlier than mine.  Plus his response to cranky, irrational daughter is to get frustrated and angry with her inability to reason.  Not so much with the helpful- plus I"m still awake because I can hear them through the baby monitor. Apparently the monitor functions on a frequency which only I- like some kind of maternal german shepard- am able to hear.)

Tags: sleep issues (all tags)

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  • book (0 / 0)

    Monitors drove me crazy.  Our houses were always so small, that I could hear them anyway, I would listen for every little sound and not sleep at all.

    Back to the sleep, if you can get your sleepy self to a bookstore and buy a copy of this book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Weissbluth.

    He has answers for this one, I promise you.  It goes all the way up to the teen years.

    http://www.amazon.com/...

    by NJmom on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:04:46 AM PDT

    • I'm going to look into that too. (0 / 0)

      I'm all about more information for the sleep deprived!

      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

      by 1plain1peanut on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:19:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • DD still going thru the gnarly sleep time? n/t (0 / 0)

        by Rachel on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 03:32:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Yeah, a bit... (0 / 0)

          We aren't going through the power struggles at bedtime anymore.  She's gotten over that, thank God.  Most of that is due to me relaxing about it all and making it less of an issue.  

          But, we are getting wakened up at night.  I just wish she'd sleep through the night... at almost 5... ugh.  I recall reading in Sleepless in America that sleep issues can crop up around birthdays and half birthdays.  Hopefully that's it.  Like I said, Grant went through the same thing at around this age.

          "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

          by 1plain1peanut on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 05:14:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • biannual event (0 / 0)

            I'm with you - every six months, Jess goes a bit ... off. We finally are starting to see some regularity again and less contentious fights over bedtime. But we're also seriously contiplating going for a new, king-sized bed. After all, we're hoping to have our second some time this year (please, please!) and I plan to co-sleep but good, so having four of us in a queen-sized bed?! Aw, hell no!

            by Rachel on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:48:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • We have a (0 / 0)

              king sized bed, but DH and I are big people.  W had trouble fitting four in the bed, so we didn't do it all that often.  We relegated Grant to a sleeping bag on the floor next to the bed.  Plus...he's a sprawler and I was tired of getting kicked in the back LOL.

              However, I know plenty of families that did do it and were fine with it.  You know the old saying... whatever works best for you and your family and all that.

              "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

              by 1plain1peanut on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 06:28:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            • A king bed is a must! (0 / 0)

              We got a king bed about 6 months ago and it was the best purchase ever. Ever. And we don't even co-sleep (well, ds sometimes sleeps with me ... and he flops around, taking over even the king bed).

              We got a California King due to the dimensions of our bedroom, but man, an Eastern King with those four more inches .... a must get.

              by RachelD on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 07:55:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    • Love this book (0 / 0)

      This book has saved my arse for the last 19 months. I've recently scooted ds's bedtime 15 minutes earlier and it has worked like a charm.

      Must say that I have so far ignored the cry it out element, yet the general advice still works. I haven't read the stuff for older kids, but wouldn't hesitate to follow his advice for any age group.

      by RachelD on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:33:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Ignore? (0 / 0)

    I really don't know, but I might just ignore her when she is calling out for you.  Our 3 YO always goes into a "Mama Mama Mama" routine after final lights-out.  We just sit there & listen and do not respond.  

    In regards to sleeping and bedtime, we have taken the "needs - not wants" theory.  If they need something, diaper change or feeling sick, then we will tend to them in their bedroom.  If they want something, tough luck.  

    Might be tough the first couple of nights but she may come around.

    Good Luck.

    by Aimee on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:27:00 AM PDT

  • I hear you... (0 / 0)

    My daughter will be turning 5 in two weeks, and we have sleep issues as well.  I found that the crankier and madder I got, the worse it got.  I know this sounds like a tall order, but if you can be as calm as possible... it will help your daughter get back to sleep.  In Sleepless in America, it mentions making the environment "safe for sleep", meaning your child has to be calm and feel that it's okay for them to go to sleep.  If I got angry every time she woke up, then she got upset... it only exasperated the matter.  If your child's stress level increases, it makes it that much harder for sleep to happen.  It's a vicious cycle.

    Believe me... I haven't always been able stay calm.  Like you say, zombies can't always think clearly.  I have yelled.  I have lost my temper.  However, I see that staying calm actually makes things go smoother so that's the route we try to take.

    So... here's what I've got going on now in Madeline's routine.  Two nightlights in the room... it's bright, but dammit she's going through a real afraid of the dark period.  She has a Curious George doll that DH got her... it's like a glowworm...you squeeze it and the head glows.  I know it sounds funny, but this really helped a lot.  I lay with her until she goes to sleep and sneak away.  She usually wakes up in the middle of the night, and comes into our room to sleep in our bed.  I remain calm, give her a drink of water and she goes right back to sleep.  She hasn't slept in our bed since she was 2 1/2 and I felt like I was going backwards but letting her do it again... but I need my sleep and so does she.  

    It's a phase like everything else.  My son went through the same sort of thing at this age.  I think she'll be over it by the time kindergarten rolls around.  Your child will grow out of it too.

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

    by 1plain1peanut on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:29:49 AM PDT

    • I don't have children this age but... (0 / 0)

      I remember when I was little, I had REAL FEAR of the dark. I am not sure why, but it could have something to do with my not so stable family that made me insecure. However none of my sisters or brother had the same problem so, who knows?
      My father taught me a relaxation technique that helped me a lot. He also allowed me to sleep in his room. In fact, he ended up buyin a matress for me which stayed there so that i could go in without waking him up.

      by Mari on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:52:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Fear of the dark (0 / 0)

        Our problems cropped up when her brother was watching a Harry Potter movie in the basement and she was with him.  I actually thought they were watching something else.  Ever since then, she's been afraid of the dark, monsters in dark corners, etc.  It's been about 6 weeks since then and things are a lot better.  But, she's still waking up at night.

        With her brother, we had a sleeping bag in our room he could go to.  At the time, I was co-sleeping with his infant sister so there wasn't much room in the bed.  He was fine with that and would come in and not even wake us.  But Madeline wants skin to skin contact right now, because of her fears.  She won't even consider a sleeping bag on the floor right now.  She just really needs mom.  It's not worth the power struggle to me right now and I know it won't last forever, so in the bed she sleeps.  

        "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

        by 1plain1peanut on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 06:26:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Sleep is not bountiful (0 / 0)

    over here, either, with ha 5yo and a 1yo. Good luck with yours!

    by tarantula on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:50:25 AM PDT

  • another book (0 / 0)

    Sleepless in America, by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

    Excellent in terms of "do what works", but also contains lots of good ideas to try.

    Also not aimed at any particular age -- it even encourages moms and dads to get enough sleep too!

    BTW, it says that preschoolers need 12h of sleep....

    by cbfly on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:22:03 AM PDT

  • Still dealing with this. (0 / 0)

    My 8-year-old still has the nightlights blazing and the sound machine blaring--some kids just aren't natural good sleepers.

    I once gave my daughter a 'slumber party with Mom' as a reward for not waking me up for two weeks. After 14 nights of blissfully interupted sleep, we stayed overnight together in the guest room. We made a party out of it so it wouldn't seem like an everyday kind of thing (perish the thought!). Those two weeks seemed to 'reset' her sleep rhythm and she has been much better since.

    It  would also gives your daughter what she wants (you) but on YOUR terms.

    by sangfroid on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:32:09 AM PDT

  • What we did (0 / 0)

    My daughter (also blastedly strong willed....don't know where she gets it) was doing something very similar. Every two hours all night long...sometimes accompanied by hysterics. The best advice that I got was that sometimes they have to pee, but don't realize that that's the problem. So they feel uncomfortable and wake up...but have no idea how to fix it. So when they call out, you walk in, without saying a word, even if they ask you questions, pick them up, put them on the toilet, wait until they go, pick them up, put them back into bed and help them go to sleep (whatever that means  for you...for us it's a book on CD with a very soothing narrator). After a few days of this, the problem was solved. And it helped us to realize that she might have a reason for being awake and driving us batty. The key is to not talk, and to carry them. Let them half sleep through the experience if possible.

    The other thing that we did was set up a "special bed" in our room. It's a mattress on the floor. If she woke up after about 2 am, she could go to the toilet, and then sleep in the special bed for the rest of the night. That way, she was near us, but not in bed with me kicking me and driving me up a wall. After a month, she's mostly in her room, but occasionally comes into the special bed around five for the last hour of sleep. And I'm happy with that.

    I hope the reason for your daughter's insanity is as easy...

    by aussieyank on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 02:59:17 PM PDT

  • your daughter is reminding me of kramer (0 / 0)

    on seinfeld when he discovered he could be more productive if he slept less

    here's a link to the best parts of the show

    seinfeld on you tube

    i got the whole night ahead of me!

    by thankgodforairamerica on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 03:11:20 PM PDT

  • what we've tried... (0 / 0)

    When I've told my 5 yo dd that I will check on her later, I leave something to show that I was there - a stuffed animal or a sticker on the back or her hand.  We've talked about this before she went to sleep so that she knows to look for it when she wakes up.  That way there is not arguing about whether or not I was there.

    I've also given her ideas on things that she can do when she wakes up.  She can play quietly with her stuffed animals in bed or she can crawl in bed with us but she should be quiet so that mommy and daddy can sleep.  If she really, really, really needs to, she can wake us up.

    My 2yo dd hasn't slept well for the last few weeks.  Part of the time she wants something to drink.  Lately, I've been putting 2 drinks with her when I put her to bed since she was drinking one and wanting more.

    After several nights of little sleep, I told my 2yo that mommy really needs some sleep and that she needs to let me sleep.  She didn't wake me up at all that night!!  It was probably a coincidence but I'll take what I can get.

    I can relate to your situation.  My 5yo didn't consistently sleep through the night until she was 2 1/2.  She still has sleep troubles sometimes.  Now it seems that some weeks they alternate nights to wake me up.

    The best advice I've gotten is to "do what works".  It's important for mom and dad to get sleep to.  So if means that everyone isn't sleeping where they should be or things aren't how they should be, that's OK.  After a few nights of getting sleep, you are better equipped to deal with the problems and get things back to how they should be.

    by mommy turtle on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 05:32:49 PM PDT

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