Mother Talkers

My daughter wears boys underwear and James Dobson can kiss my fat ass.

by thankgodforairamerica

Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:01:09 AM PDT

You know, we have not had a good James Dobson rant in a while. Thanks for the diary, TGFAA! -Elisa

I didn't really say that.  I said "my son has a vagina and James Dobson can kiss my fat ass."  OK- I didn't say that either. I don't think it's true, and it seemed argumentative.

Anyway, I was at Open Gym, which is a great program in my town- for $30 you get five months of indoor play in the gym at the local recreation center, and the kids run around and ride tricycles and drive little play cars and fire trucks and throw themselves around on gym mats and it's a blast.  Yesterday I ran into a mom whose kids I watch each week while she's at bible study, and she pointed out to me that my daughter is a bit of a tomboy.  And she said she was too, but she grew out of it.

Then I shared how my daughter (who's four and a half) refuses to wear girls underpants, so I let her wear boys underpants.  I said there's nothing I can do.  She said "Oh yes there is- talk to your pediatrician!  Take her to a child psychologist!  And have you read James Dobson?"

That's when I lost it.

I said I dislike James Dobson so much I stay on his email list so I can email and call congressmen and senators and ask them to do the opposite of whatever James Dobson tells me to ask them to do.  I told her a few years ago I even called the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to tell them they really should keep Chris Rock as the host of the Oscars- why does James Dobson care who hosts the Oscars, and how does it hurt America if Chris Rock hosts an awards show?

She said Dobson really helps her family, and she likes how he defends the sanctity of life.  I told her I don't like how he lies about emergency contraception, and I didn't see why if my doctor tells me another pregnancy will kill me that my children should be orphaned.  Or why if I'm raped and want emergency contraception a hospital can deny it to me.  Or why a pharmacist can take my prescription and say he disagrees with me and my doctor and my husband and refuse to fill it.

We parted and she asked me if we could stop talking about it because we weren't going to agree and she's sorry I feel that way about James Dobson, because he has really helped her family.

And I didn't even bring up Ted Haggard.

Anyway, it's not a question of my daughter wearing girls underpants or boys underpants.  It's a question of her wearing NO underpants or wearing boys underpants.  Or a third option might be we just never leave the house again because I will spend the rest of my life wrestling with her on the floor in front of her dresser.

Updated to say thank you so much for putting me on the front page- wow!  

Poll

James Dobson should...

5%9 votes
33%52 votes
60%95 votes

| 156 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: James Dobson, reproductive freedom, sanctity of life (all tags)

Permalink | 81 comments

  • Agreed (0 / 0)

    I love that you are on the Dobson e-mail list - it might drive me crazy.

    by Aimee on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:21:48 AM PDT

  • I would have voted for the last option, but (0 / 0)

    your ass doesn't deserve that.
    God I hate FoF.  I had their magazines inflicted on my family for years.  

    by lonespark on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:25:25 AM PDT

    • I agree (0 / 0)

      your ass is too good for that sanctimonious gas bag!

      He should kiss my trash can when it's full of my neighbor's manky dog poop.

      And if it makes you feel any better, my daughter often goes commando.  As long as she's wearing pants or shorts, I don't generally give a shit, either, and it's particularly comfortable in hot weather.

      Reuse. Enthuse. Repeat. http://www.secondhandnation.com

      by Secondhand Nation on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:59:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • So (0 / 0)

    are you still "allowed" to watch her kids while she's at bible study?

    My fundie neighbors give me crap for "letting" my son wear nail polish and ballet shoes. I tell them straight up to kiss my ass and then I laugh at them. They are so dumb. It amazes me that we remain so friendly after the number of times I've had to tussle with them over societal and gender issues.

    by GiGi on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:33:50 AM PDT

    • i don't know!! (0 / 0)

      it's my second job, and i would have done it today, but i had to attend a mandatory safety meeting at my first job, so the lady who works with me on sundays covered for me-

      we'll see what happens next thursday

      i really like her, and i love her kids- when we were singing old macdonald has a farm one of the kids said "bunny" and i couldn't figure out what sound a bunny would make and her daughter said "boyng!"  

      by thankgodforairamerica on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:47:05 AM PDT

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  • Dobson is awful! (0 / 0)

    I have these sorts of playmates for my kids, too. It's hard to know what to do with their Dobson-loving parents, and there are so few people around that we need kids to play with, so I'm often sucking it up.

    Good for you for saying something! So satisfying.

    by tarantula on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:35:35 AM PDT

  • You're fabulous (0 / 0)

    I'm so glad you spoke your mind.  And while he probably deserves to be named as an accessory to child abuse in court, there would be something so satisfying about seeing him kiss your ass.  So long as it is literal.  

    by Erin on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:37:49 AM PDT

  • What, no "SUCK IT" option? (0 / 0)

    I love Chris Rock... and I can't totally see why Dobson hates him LOL!

    I know I've said this before on MTers... I can't believe otherwise decent people follow this man.  He's evil.  

    You know why people have a problem with little girls wearing boys underwear and little boys wearing nail polish?  It makes THEM uncomfortable.  In other words... it's THEIR problem, not yours.  

    "If it's not Scottish, it's crap!" ~Mike Meyers

    by 1plain1peanut on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:41:35 AM PDT

  • She suggested taking your daughter (0 / 0)

    to a child psychologist over underpants?  Woah...

    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

    by lonestar canuck on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:43:38 AM PDT

    • that's what i was thinking too (0 / 0)

      i drive kids who are in a preschool program to prepare them for kindergarten- some of them can't sit w/in reach of other kids because they might injure them

      i was thinking underpants wasn't something i'd waste a dr's time on

      by thankgodforairamerica on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:51:45 AM PDT

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  • boys undies on my girl too (0 / 0)

    Thomas undies are her absolute favorites...and they don't make them for girls.

    Guess I'd better start searching for a child psychologist...WTF??? What a nutjob that lady is. I'm glad you gave her a piece of your mind. It will be interesting to see if she still wants you to watch her kids...

    by Erika on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:44:50 AM PDT

  • Jeebus. (0 / 0)

    Do people really think a child is going to be warped by wearing a particular type of children's underwear?

    We really need to do a better job teaching logical thinking in our schools.

    Katherine

    by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 09:57:12 AM PDT

  • I wear them too... (0 / 0)

    Or, at least what the VS catalog calls boy shorts. Apparently, your daughter is, GASP, perfectly normal.

    My DS (2.5yr) loves to brush and blow dry my hair. Perhaps you can send me the phone of her recommended therapist. ;)

    Our director at work has a DS 'round 5. He likes to wear her knee highs. He says they are fun to wear- wears them to school. She's an older, single-by-choice mom and probably one of the women I respect most at this place. Her response to it?
    What's the harm. That's my mantra. No harm, no foul. I used to pee standing up like my boy best friend when I was young...

    Although,I'm 30yrs and still searching for nice days-of-the-week panties that have Sunday....LOL

    by quiltgirl on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:10:58 AM PDT

  • can't stand 'em (0 / 0)

    I have so many evangelical friends who are kind, decent people. I just don't see why they don't appreciate the 'meanness' of the public face of their religion. Someone asked why I wasn't including the local evangelical school in my school hunt, and I had to tell her straight out that I don't accept the underlying theme of hatred and bigotry that I see in that public movement--I could never accept that those kinds of institutions would hold sway with my kids' teachers.

    I also make sure to tell my friends what it was like living in Colorado when FOTF was a lesser known org. I remember the hateful propaganda they distributed on people's doors. I GOT that propaganda. I used to be late to work STEALING that propaganda off of my neighbor's porches and throwing it away!

    You can't tell me an organization that was once so mean spirited is now kind hearted and charitable toward their fellow man.

    by sangfroid on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:19:08 AM PDT

  • As for Ted Haggard (0 / 0)

    Put it in terms your friend will understand. You should tell you friend that God brought him (and the rest of his ilk) low in no uncertain terms and on purpose. She and her friends should consider it a wake up  call. God shows them time and time again the kinds of crooked hypocrites they are choosing to follow--He lays them bare for the public to see--but they choose not to see it. They choose to follow crooks instead of sticking to the benevolent and loving teachings of Jesus. Who is really their Lord?

    I know it sounds like I'm being a little  facetious, but I'm really not. Can you imagine how you'd feel if you were God and people pulled that kind of s*** in YOUR name? I think if there is a God in Heaven, certainly he is doing all he can to expose these bozos and get them thrown out of positions of power.

    by sangfroid on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:24:10 AM PDT

  • dd16 wears (0 / 0)

    "boy shorts" type underwear from Victoria's Secret during the day and plain old boxers from "Life is Good" at night.  OMG, have I missed the window of opportunity to get her to a psychologist?

    I hate narrow minded people, I hate people who have strong opinions about other people's parenting, and I especially hate narrow-minded people who vent their opinions about other people's parenting!

    by Sue in Queens on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:58:57 AM PDT

  • James Dobson wears panties (0 / 0)

    I'm just saying.

    by coobert on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:09:36 AM PDT

  • I have to admit (0 / 0)

    I had no idea who James Dobson was.  I googled him, found his website, and OMG! what a nut.  I voted for him to be a co defendant because your fat ass doesn't deserved to be defiled in such a manner!

    by face121 on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:15:04 AM PDT

  • LOL (0 / 0)

    I love the part about you calling the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. You're awesome.

    I don't know how people can take Dobson seriously. Now there's a guy who needs therapy.

    by minnmom on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:27:31 AM PDT

    • thanks- it was a while ago, but i remember... (0 / 0)

      the lady who answered the phone laughing when she first picked up- she said they were getting crazy phone calls all day, and not to worry, they weren't going to fire chris rock

      that call was one of my favorites- maybe becasue there wasn't anything important at stake

      the funny thing is one of chris rock's bits, which i saw him working on a few times at the comedy cellar, but i never saw him do anywhere else was very dobson friendly-  rock would rub his belly and say "can kill you here!"  and then he'd cradle his arms and rock them and look down and smile and say "can't kill you here!"  and go back and forth.  but he never seemed to build it into anything that was funny.  go figure.

      a lot of comics work on their stuff at the cellar, and i used to love watching comics go through the process over a few weeks or months and then see the final result later on a late night talk show or hbo special

      by thankgodforairamerica on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 11:41:01 AM PDT

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  • I am fortunate to live in Colorado Springs (0 / 0)

    ground zero for both Dobson and Haggard.  Even worse, Dobson's move to Colorado brought over 100 para-church organizations, with all kinds of loony goals, to town. The entire northeast part of CS is full of Dobson/Haggard devotees, so few normal people go up that way.

    I, too, am on Dobson's mailing list.  Focus sends out catalogs wherein merchandise may be obtained with a suggested donation.  One fun thing to do is to buy lots of stuff, making a donation of zero, and then sell the stuff on eBay.  I recently obtained the audio books of The Chronicles of Narnia and donated them to the public library.

    The Ted Haggard scandal, to me, proves that there is a god and that he hates New Life Church.  

    Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. Henry David Thoreau

    by half dozen on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 12:01:09 PM PDT

    • I'm there too (0 / 0)

      You know half dozen, because we have talked about it before.

      I actually took my kids to FOtF a couple years ago.  They have a whole kids play area there, and I thought if I spoke out against it without going then I was just as judgmental and closed-minded as those I was criticizing.  It was fun for the kids, they have a whole section of a real airplane in there that makes noises and stuff.  There's a theater/dress up area, all kinds of different rooms filled with toys, and a GIANT twisty tube-slide thingy.  Of course, it's all total propaganda and religious-themed, but at the time my kids were too young to get it.  The people there were actually nice if overly happy, not too pushy or anything.  It's free to get in and lots of people here have birthday parties and playgroups there.  We haven't been back, and when we get invited I just say "I'm sorry, but I don't go there because it goes against my morals."

      I almost accidentally read one of Dobson's books once about raising boys.  One of the chapters was called "Homosexuality:  what causes it and how to prevent it"   Yikes...

      by hazel on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 12:38:21 PM PDT

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    • Awesome (0 / 0)

      Focus sends out catalogs wherein merchandise may be obtained with a suggested donation.  One fun thing to do is to buy lots of stuff, making a donation of zero, and then sell the stuff on eBay.

      by NJmom on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 01:12:56 PM PDT

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    • that's funny as hell (0 / 0)

      that's fantastic. I always wanted to do something like that - like load a Republican Party donation envelope, postage paid, with all the junk mail I could find and send it back...

      by Rachel on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 01:18:08 PM PDT

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  • OMG (0 / 0)

    Those of you surprised that she would suggest a psychologist for a girl wearing boys underwear -- you have no idea. They think anything outside of their idea of the gender norm means gay, and therefore, bad. I have heard parents shocked over such things as a boy wanting to take tap dancing lessons, a 2 year old boy who likes to have his toenails painted, a five year old boy with longish hair, girls who would not wear dresses.

    One of my favorite bumper stickers ever, in response to Dobson's focus on the family was "Focus on your own f*cking family!"

    by Lisa in Austin on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 12:39:05 PM PDT

    • Favorite family story (0 / 0)

      although it was less than funny at the time...
      My late grandfather had some sort of skin condition and his doctor recommended wearing silk pajamas until it got better.  He didn't have any, but his similar-sized wife did.  My grandparents, being practical Midwestern farm types, didn't feel the need to buy new pajamas.  Grampa lounged about in Gramma's magenta silk pjs and felt much better.  At some point she told her youngest sister, a screaming fundy Christian type about this, and my great aunt was HORRIFIED.  She kept asking, "What if the children see?"  What if, indeed?  Who cares?  Way to judge your sick relatives.  Bah!

      by lonespark on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 12:54:37 PM PDT

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    • ITA (0 / 0)

      Although I am surprised that in this case the gal would say a psychologist was in order.  I thought Dobson was anti-therapy?

      Must brush up on my Dobsonism!

      by NJmom on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 01:10:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Was it George Carlin (0 / 0)

      who had a riff about being young & hearing "Cut your hair, you dirty hippy."  Then he goes to church and what does he see?  A picture of Jesus...with long hair & a beard! Seriously...has anyone ever seen a picture of Jesus with a combover or buzz cut or Mitt Romney helmet?  It wouldn't affect my belief in his divinity in the least, but why can't Jesus have a mohawk?

      by cynmill on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 02:25:37 PM PDT

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      • my personal Jesus has a mowhawk (0 / 0)

        and some badar$e piercings! ;-)

        Oh, hey, Cindy - can we tawk 'stenders fan to 'stenders fan? I know one of the actors on the show!!!!! He's the husband of a friend of mine in London and plays Max Branning (is Max Branning in the show yet by you?)

        by Rachel on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 03:30:04 PM PDT

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        • And tatoos, baby! (0 / 0)

          Bugger all, it's only March '02 as I'm watching.  We're not even up to the episodes I saw during my honeymoon in October '02!  Although I used to read ahead on the web site so I know a lot that happens.  I don't know Max Branning though...I'll have to look him up.

          Small world, though.  The guy who plays Jack on "Men in Trees," and in real life left his wife for Anne Heche, his co-star, is the brother of a guy from Nova Scotia who I dated when I lived in London.  We kept in touch when I came back to the States & he'd moved to Australia, married a local, and they were running a b&b in Victoria.  I haven't heard from him for a few years, but I assume he's still there.  I haven't had any luck tracking him down.  Guess I'll have to come down myself someday!

          by cynmill on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 04:37:54 PM PDT

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    • I've gotta get that bumper sticker n/t (0 / 0)

      by mamacita on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 04:16:33 PM PDT

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    • OMG!!!!!!!!! (0 / 0)

      What bad parents DH and I are!  My 11 yo DD does Irish Dance and my DH can't wait for our 1 yo DS to take lessons!  I guess I should warn him that Dobson says it'll "make" our boy gay ;-)  

      by face121 on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 05:41:25 PM PDT

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  • my previous dk comment plus babysitting story (0 / 0)

    I just want to repeat that on DKos, I added a comment to this diary, "In those pants, your ass really does not look fat."

    I was asked by my extreme Republican neighbor to watch her daughter(age 10) one afternoon when school let out early. It was strictly convenience - I have not talked to her in years til she put her daughter in the local school and started waiting for the bus in the morning.

    So, I meet the daughter and she comes over - I showed her the building we are doing on our home, took her inside and...she DOES NOT TALK. She talks to her mother but apparently has selective mutism, just stares and nods, no words. She managed to play Monopoly with my son awhile, a very quiet game. Now, don't you think a normal mother would tell someone who has not been around her daughter that the girl does not speak? I am certain this woman(active in state GOP) would have a bookshelf full of James Dobson. It was beyond weird.

    by chun yang on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 03:12:38 PM PDT

  • Thank you for saying what you said to her. (0 / 0)

    I am 55 but my best friend when I was 5 was a 5 year old boy from across the street who would actually play with me.  My own older brother couldn't stand my dolls and dress up clothes so I was thrilled a boy would play dolls and dress up with me.  This was the best of all worlds to me.  I didn't particularly like the bratty girls on the next block who wouldn't share.  His parents never discouraged him which may seem odd in 1950's Montana.

    But he grew up to be a successful puppeteer and puppet designer and yes, he is gay.

    Clearly, he was born the way he was born.

    by janetle on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 03:29:06 PM PDT

    • that is so cool! (0 / 0)

      I just turned 56 yesterday and recall a boy in first grade(1958) who played with dolls and how some kids teased him. I must have been born the way I was, because I have a clear memory of defending him, saying that maybe he would grow up to be a pediatrician! I don't know what happened to him, and he was from a poor family so I doubt he went to college, but sometimes I think people are wired to be tolerant and some are wired to just be bothered like all get-out by other people's business.

      by chun yang on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 04:40:18 PM PDT

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    • I was the tom-boy (0 / 0)

      I love that you played Barbie with the neighbor boy.  I was the little girl who played Dukes of Hazard, hated Barbies and loved digging for crawdads in the creek behind my house. Thank goodness I was born with the immunity that allowed me not to turn gay since my Mom was obviously not doing a good job parenting!

      Loons, every last one of them! I definitely think we should start harnessing and restricting our children from self-expression as young as possible!  That makes balanced adults - ha!

      www.camperky.com

      by camper on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 06:48:05 AM PDT

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      • that's what i was thinking- (0 / 0)

        I definitely think we should start harnessing and restricting our children from self-expression as young as possible!

        i just figured the end result would be she wouldn't feel safe telling me things or asking for things- i never thought a shrink could get her to not want to be a boy or start acting more girl like

        people drive me crazy

        by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 07:28:45 AM PDT

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        • I think it is more fun to be a girl (0 / 0)

          because you can wear the frilly dresses and the combat boots.  In all my social circles, the boys can too - but not that many high heels come in men's sizes.

          by lonespark on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 10:33:20 AM PDT

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          • ok, you made me laugh (0 / 0)

            Jess is discovering the dress up phase, which I love, but she also makes DH and I dress up too. A couple of weeks ago, she pulled out my favorite heels - leopard skin stilettos (god, I love them, but I never get to wear them) and gave them to DH to wear. Flat out refused to move on until DH put them on. We're about the same sized feet, so he got them on. I was thinking, damn, he almost looks better in them than I do!!

            by Rachel on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 03:26:24 PM PDT

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  • doing my part to change perceptions (0 / 0)

    I wrote a diary about this nearly a year ago, but my 3-year-old son's favorite color is still pink.  I'd say he only wears pink clothes half the time now, but his shoes, coat, etc. are all in pink.

    I'm glad to live in a pretty liberal area where people are totally fine with it.  It does cause some confusion, though.

    by Treena on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:34:46 PM PDT

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