Mother Talkers

Breastfeeding Harvard Mom Wins Case

by Elisa

Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:00:42 PM PDT

Please note: Oops, my bad! Currier apparently is taking the exam over two days AND getting additional break time. Seems like a lot to me. Thanks for clarifying, Erika! -Elisa


Sophie Currier, the Harvard student who requested additional time during the nine-hour medical licensing exam to pump milk for her four-month-old daughter, just won an appeals court decision. She will be allowed an additional 60 minutes of break time to take the test.

I know we debated whether the 45 minutes was sufficient -- it seemed like it was -- but Currier’s demands made sense in this Associated Press article:

But (Judge) Katzmann said that amount of break time was "insufficient" for Currier to nurse her baby, properly express breast milk, eat, drink and use the restroom over the course of the nine-hour exam.

Without extra break time, Currier would have to choose between pumping breast milk and ignoring her bodily functions or foregoing pumping and causing herself significant pain, the judge said.

"Under either avenue, (Currier) is placed at significant disadvantage in comparison to her peers," Katzmann wrote in his 26-page ruling.

Forty-five minutes for a 9-hour exam doesn’t seem like much when you take into consideration eating and using the bathroom. I know I am starving all the time when I am nursing. And since I just delivered a baby, I always have to use the bathroom, too.

I think this is a good precedent to set. Hopefully, it trickles down to other industries.

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Tags: Sophie Currier, Harvard mom, medical licensing exam, pumping, breastfeeding (all tags)

Permalink | 31 comments

  • clarification (0 / 0)

    It's a 9-hour exam, yes, but because Currier has learning disabilities, she will take the test over two days, in 4.5 hour chunks.

    So that's a 45-minute break over 4.5 hours, NOT 9 hours.

    by Erika on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 01:55:05 PM PDT

  • I'm glad for any precedent (0 / 0)

    set that will help other mothers...however, I still can't work myself up over this individual woman's case.

    by tjb22 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 01:58:37 PM PDT

    • that hits it on the head (0 / 0)

      for me. I'm glad this happened and also hope it trickles down through the industry, but I wasn't too enthused about going to the ramparts for this woman. I thought she'd been well accomodated to start with.

      by Rachel on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 03:49:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I wonder if she's one of those (0 / 0)

        high-achievers whose parents shopped for a doctor who would give her the ADD and dyslexia label in time for the SAT, and she's been using it to her advantage on every exam since then?

        I really don't know, obviously, but I do know that the extra-time-on-tests scam is alive and well among a certain class in this country.  And those two disabilities are popular ones for shady docs to diagnose for a handsome fee, because the criteria  can be quite subjective.  I've seen advertisements to that effect in local parenting mags.  Gag. (That is not to say they aren't REAL diagnoses, or that people don't truly suffer from them.  Just that they are sometimes abused to gain advantage on high-stakes tests.)

        That said, anything that makes life easier for a new mom and/or a medical student is okay by me, and I agree it could be a helpful precedent.

        by mamacita on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:19:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • I have two very good friends (0 / 0)

          who did this for their sons in college.  And there is a particular doctor in my city who has a reputation for giving out the ADHD dx to just about anyone who asks for it.

          One of these friends was very clear on her motives...she wanted her son to have every advantage in college that could be had.  He was struggling a bit and like many 20 year old boys, wasn't really as ready to settle down and study as she would have liked.  And, being that she's a teacher, she knew the advantages he could get with such a designation.

          by tjb22 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:43:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • Wow! (0 / 0)

          I had no idea that went on (your second paragraph).  That is so, so wrong.  

          Timing is so HUGE on timed, standardized tests. It is a huge, huge advantage to get extra breaks, extra time, break it up over days, IF you truly don't need it and are just gaming the system.  You've actually seen ads advertising for these "services"?

          I guess we all can hope is that one day when these kids are out of mommy and daddy's controlling clutches they can make it on their own at all.

          And then the sad part is, there are probably so many kids who really do have learning issues that aren't getting the help they need for whatever reason.

          by NJmom on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 05:39:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Yeah, it's unfair (0 / 0)

            I guess we all can hope is that one day when these kids are out of mommy and daddy's controlling clutches they can make it on their own at all.

            By then, they've gamed their way to the top and no one catch them anymore.  You know there are people in high-paying or prestigious jobs whose resumes are a little hollow.  The President comes to mind :-)  And no knock on Harvard or Stanford, but some of those students are there because their parents have taken unfair advantage on their behalf at every single point along the way.  Without the edge, they would be good students with the same maturity and focus challenges of any other college student.  The extra time can signal excellence that doesn't really exist.  

            In some families, it's a lifestyle.

            by mamacita on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 07:48:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • What I've seen (0 / 0)

              are parents who can't accept that their child might just be "average".  And ofcourse, after getting a college age kid dx'ed, these parents are very quick to point out that there child has done so well so far only because of their excellent parenting.  Ugh.

              by tjb22 on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 08:09:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  • I told my sister about this case (0 / 0)

    and her response was:

    "How in the hell does she have time to file a lawsuit?"

    Reuse. Enthuse. Repeat. http://www.secondhandnation.com

    by Secondhand Nation on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:05:50 PM PDT

    • Yeah... (0 / 0)

      unless I am missing something, this seems a little frivolous to me.

      by Elisa on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:07:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • I'm going to throw something out there: (0 / 0)

      Do you guys think this woman would have won her case if she happened to be a sales clerk at WalMart or a waitress down at the local diner?  Do we give more allowances to women we believe are more "worthy"?

      by tjb22 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:39:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • great question... (0 / 0)

        and answer is NOT.

        by parentalunit1 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:48:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • There is a difference (0 / 0)

        between a licensing exam and a job, which definitely would affect the legal issues in the case.

        But there's no doubt in my mind that higher educated women get more slack from the system in general.

        by shenanigans on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:50:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Ok....what if the woman (0 / 0)

          was required to take the state cosmetology test?  Or, what if Walmart required its workers to sit through an orientation class?  Or, what if this woman wasn't going to Harvard?  

          I think when the Walmart clerk can get some slack is when I'll really believe we're turning some kind of corner.

          by tjb22 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:53:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Well (0 / 0)

            I bet in California, that you could get the same accomodation for the state cosmetology test. (I sure would be surprised if it's 9 hours, though.) I have no idea about other states.

            In general, in workplaces, we're lousy about accomodations. They have to accomodate certain disabilities now, but I don't think breastfeeding counts in that.

            Walmart has got to be one of the worst possible places to work, screwing people just for the fun of it ("Oh, you can't work Sunday afternoons? Ok, here's the schedule, I have you down for Saturday evening and all day Sunday"), and so I agree, they're not accomodating people and doing everything they can to avoid doing so.

            I have always thought it was ironic/terrible that a Wal-Mart worker making minimum wage has to clock out to go to the bathroom, but consultants making $200 an hour aren't expected to do so. A consultant can make as much money peeing as the Wal-Mart clerk makes all day.

            by shenanigans on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 03:00:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • I think I just get a little jaded, you know? (0 / 0)

              Most women aren't going to be Harvard grads seeking to take state medical board exams.  Therefore, even if every female was allowed every accommodation she asked for, it would have little real meaning for the vast, vast majority of women.  

              I guess I'd like to see organizations get behind "mothering issues" as they relate to this larger majority.  Otherwise, we'll just have a group of elite females to go along with the group of elite males that already exist.

              by tjb22 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 03:07:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          • In NY she does (0 / 0)

            Our state just passed a law allowing for unpaid nursing/pumping breaks.  Thank you Elliott Spitzer!  This sort of makes up for the state funding being cut at the school where I worked LOL.

            by music teacher on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:19:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Wow...really? (0 / 0)

              That's something that deserves a lot of attention.  Its a really solid gain...

              Ofcourse, I don't know what to say about funding being cut at your school.  Education funding is in such a mess it hurts my brain to think about it.

              by tjb22 on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:34:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  • Hungry! (0 / 0)

    The one good thing about the cicrumstances that led to the end of nursing DS was not being hungry and thirsty all the damn time.

    It is a good precedent to set.  There do seem to be other considerations that might make this a less-than-good career choice for her right now, but relaxing the stupid arbitrary rules for tests like this is all to the good.  Frankly, I wonder why they can't just give everyone better breaks, more opportunity to get up an walk around, eat, whatever.  Instead of every breastfeeding mom, diabetic, etc. having to apply for a specific exceptions.

    by lonespark on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:37:11 PM PDT

  • Those 9 hour exams (0 / 0)

    are grueling. I took the state EIT (an engineering exam) in one of those enormous buildings at the LA County fairgrounds in Pomona. It took an hour just to sit everyone down, there were so many people.

    The only bright spot was since there were only about 10 women, for the first time ever, there were long, twisting lines spilling outside for the men's room and no waiting at all for the ladies. :-)

    It's true that we barely had time to eat lunch and use the restroom during the 45 minutes. I can't imagine also trying to deal with pumping in a strange place.

    I still remember how drained I felt when I finished. I could barely drive myself home.

    At the end of the day, I know it sounds like a lot of time (since she gets two days), and it is - but really - these tests are so artificial, and the time limit is quite tight. I think there are some people who do really well in exam situations and some people who do not, and I don't think that reflects how well they will do as a doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc. The real problems in those fields require the willingness to take time to think about the answer. If the test is meant to test her knowledge, the extra time won't give her any extra knowledge.

    There were certainly times when going 4.5 hours without a break (which I assume was the way the two day format was going to work) when my daughter was an infant would've risked fairly explosive leakage. I wonder how the scantron machine handles drips of breastmilk?

    by shenanigans on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 02:48:22 PM PDT

  • good precedent, but... (0 / 0)

    I think she probably could make it 4.5 hours without pumping if she pumped right before the exam started and right after.  When my baby was exclusively breastfed, I was out of the house for 6-7 hours once a week and just pumped before and after, and this was sufficient.  I'd say I have an above-average supply, too.  Besides, who would really want to pump at the site of the exam if it could be avoided?  I stopped pumping at work as soon as I realized I could.

    I do agree that 45 minutes was insufficient break time, especially since, if I remember correctly, it was fragmented.  

    It would be very dangerous if they had said that she couldn't have a pumping break because she's taking the exam on two days.  If a breastfeeding mom taking the exam on one day would have a break, they would need to give her the same thing -- otherwise they'd be discrimating against her due to her disability.

    by Treena on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:46:04 PM PDT

  • Torn (0 / 0)

    I don't know.  I'm torn about this story.  A large part of me doesn't really care because breastfeeding issues just don't get me going on an emotional level, although when I think about it logically I get it.

    Timed tests are really affected by the amount of time and the amount of breaks you are given within them.  An additional 60 minutes per 4.5 hours on top of the 45 minutes she was already given is a lot of break time, even with pumping, from what you all tell me here.  

    She did fail the first time already.  Who knows, maybe she is trying to get the maximum amount of breaks for resting, eating and yes, pumping.  Could be.

    Anyway, I'm glad for her personally but not sure how I feel about it all overall.

    by NJmom on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:47:43 PM PDT

    • I agree on the time (0 / 0)

      At first I thought they were adding 15 minutes for her (going from 45 minutes to an hour), but if I'm reading it right, she gets the standard 45 minutes plus 60 minutes -- twice.  That is quite an advantage.

      by mamacita on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:26:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • It's obvious (0 / 0)

    that with the changing roles of Mothers and their expectations that they should be allowed to work, go to school and still care for their children, it's about time things got a little more flexible.  There are many talented women who deserve this kind of chance and I'm sure her experience will make her a more well rounded Doctor.

    by Ellinorianne on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 07:27:38 PM PDT

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