Mother Talkers

Is this mom asking too much?

by Erika

Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 04:11:22 PM PDT

Many of you know by now that I'm an accidental lactivist-- that is to say, I never felt strongly about a woman's right to breastfeed until I had a baby of my own. Matter of fact, seeing women nurse used to make me downright squeamish. But now that my nursing days are behind me, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to see a suckling baby. And I get predictably irate when idiots like  Bill Maher or uptight flight attendants try to interfere with a woman's legal right to nurse her child. I've blogged it, I've written letters...and should I ever have the good fortune to have another baby, you can bet I will be attending some nurse-ins.

So this story got my hackles up when I first read it. It seems a Boston woman was denied extra break time so she could pump breast milk during her nine-hour medical licensing exam:

Norfolk Superior Court Judge Patrick Brady said Currier has other options, beyond asking the board to change its rules for her.

"The plaintiff may take the test and pass, notwithstanding what she considers to be unfavorable conditions. The plaintiff may delay the test, which is offered numerous times during the year, until she has finished her breast-feeding and the need to express milk," he said.

Say WHAT?! That last statement? Me no likey.

Currier, of Brookline, has finished a joint M.D.-Ph.D. program at Harvard University while having two babies in two years. She has been offered a residency in clinical pathology at Massachusetts General Hospital in November, but cannot accept it unless she passes the test. Her goal is a career in medical research.

Currier has taken the test once already, in April when she was 8 1/2 months pregnant, but she failed by a few points.

"The judge's conclusion that there is no harm to a woman to putting her career off for a year is the basis of discrimination," Currier said. "Men do not have to put off their careers because they are feeding a child."

So at this point I am all full of righteous indignation, and full of sympathy for this remarkable woman, who has had two babies in two years while attending medical school at Harvard, no less, AND overcoming multiple learning disabilities.

You go girl! Let's delve a little further:

  • ::

Currier has already received special accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act for dyslexia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, including being granted permission to take the test over two days instead of one.

In the lawsuit, she was seeking an additional 60-minute break on each day. The board cited the need to be consistent in the amount of time given to doctoral candidates and said other nursing mothers who have taken the exam have found the 45 minutes of permitted break time sufficient.

The judge said the board offered Currier several special accommodations, including a separate testing room where she could express milk during the test or during break time, and the option to leave the test center to breast-feed during break times.

Well.

My balloon of indignance is suddenly deflated.

So because of her learning disabilities, Currier will be taking the test over two days, in 4.5 hour blocks, with 45-minute breaks on each day. The medical board also offered her a separate testing room, and the ability to leave the test center to feed her kids during breaks.

But she wanted an additional 60-minute break each day?

Call me crazy, but a 45-minute break in 4.5 hours seems adequate to me. When I pumped, I took two 30-minute breaks during the course of an 8-hour workday, sometimes running across the street to nurse my daughter at her daycare center.

On one hand, I'm still sympathetic toward Currier. She is trying to juggle an impressive amount and could probably use all the accommodations she can get.

On the other hand, it seems the medical board has already tried to meet her halfway. And part of me wonders if Currier is asking for too much.

What say you ladies? Who's in the wrong here? Should moms who choose to nurse have to put off their careers? Or should nursing moms be accommodated whenever possible?

Tags: nursing, lawsuit, accommodations (all tags)

Permalink | 24 comments

  • Ofcourse I think they should be (0 / 0)

    accommodated whenever possible.  I'm not sure why this particular woman felt as if she needed more time than was given others?  I suppose I could grant that to her if she was making a case that all nursing mothers should be granted an hour because 45 minutes was not adequate amount of time generally speaking.  Might she be a little uncomfortable?  Maybe...but you know, its for two days...can't she manage a little discomfort for that short amount of time?  If this was a daily thing I would probably argue for giving her the hour she claims she needs...

    I do not believe nursing mothers should have to "put off their careers"...but, maybe, just maybe, we all can't have every accommodation we ask for, every time.  No one is asking her to "put off" her career...they're asking her to not ask for accommodation thats not provided for other nursing mothers.  

    by tjb22 on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 04:39:57 PM PDT

  • That's a tough one... (0 / 0)

    I see your point and theirs.  45 minutes should be more than enough time to pump her milk in 4 1/2 hours.  And... she's not even pumping... you say she can feed her kids during the breaks which is even quicker in most cases.  

    I agree with you.  She is trying to juggle a lot.  But, that's why a lot of us choose not to work while nursing our kids.  We just can't imagine trying to do both.  I think all moms that work and pump their milk should get a damn medal!.  That's bloody hard work!

    That being said, I've heard horror stories from mothers who have tried to pump at their place of employment.  They've run into road blocks all over the place.  A lot of them end up throwing in the towel...and who could blame them?  

    But this woman's needs seem to have been met.  It's unclear why she would "risk medical complications" according to the article.  I think more information is needed to asses the situation.  Is she really susceptible to mastitis?  Does she have an ongoing problem with oversupply?  Maybe then I could get behind her request.  But for now, it seems that the people administering the exam have been more than accommodating.  

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

    by 1plain1peanut on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 04:43:43 PM PDT

    • aw, thanks! I'll take a bronze ;-) (0 / 0)

      I was lucky in that my office had a nursing room and I had an understanding boss. I also had a great pump and a quick letdown. But even with all that in my favor and a freezer full of milk, I was only able to keep up until DD was 7 months old. Then I had to start supplementing with formula.

      It is a delicate balance. Like tjb22 said above, the exam is two days. An everyday on-the-job situation is another story altogether, and women should fight for whatever they need to maintain a successful breastfeeding relationshiop, if that's what they want.  

      by Erika on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 04:52:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I agree... (0 / 0)

        Though I think there's more to the story though that we aren't hearing.  Like I said maybe she's really susceptible to oversupply or something.  If that's the case, then by all means she needs more time and more frequent breaks.  

        7 months... you deserve a Gold dammit!!!

        "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

        by 1plain1peanut on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 05:12:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • Choice (0 / 0)

      But, that's why a lot of us choose not to work while nursing our kids.

      I just really, really wish all of us had the choice.

      by lonespark on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 07:58:56 AM PDT

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      • Good point... (0 / 0)

        for a lot of women, it's not a choice.  And the bummer is, our current corporate society does not make it easy for them to succeed in being able to pump while at the office.  I know of a lot of moms who have been through hell w/their bosses.  It shouldn't be this way.  

        "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

        by 1plain1peanut on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 09:15:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Maybe (0 / 0)

    I saw this story.  I think we're missing a piece of it for some reason.  Regarding her side.  Something else is up that probably didn't come out in the news story due to privacy laws.

    by NJmom on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 05:21:54 PM PDT

  • Perhaps (0 / 0)

    they have "accomodation fatigue" from this woman.  You know, when people get suspicious when someone has on-going, constant needs and the wherewithal to advocate for them?  Perhaps they think something is up.

    Personally, since I have a spouse with ADHD, I can see the two-day accomodation.  And I'm impressed as all-get-out that she's doing this program, while pregnant and having small children - wow!

    So I say, give her 60 minute break.    

    What's going to happen if they give it to her - is she going to somehow cheat - download the answers into her nursing bra?  Or will she go on to practice lousy medicine?  

    The medical community needs to get real about the fact that doctors are people and many of them are women.  They like to act bad*ss about everything, as if that gives them more credibility.  

    Reuse. Enthuse. Repeat. http://www.secondhandnation.com

    by Secondhand Nation on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 05:58:37 PM PDT

    • i'm kind of with you (0 / 0)

      so what? let her pump for 60 minutes if she needs to. who knows why that is. NJMom is probably right, there's something more to it. but isn't the point that she is supposed to prove that she knows the material to pass the exam? they've already made all kinds of accomodations for her. what's one more?

      by Stacey on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:29:06 PM PDT

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  • Some more info (0 / 0)

    What isn't mentioned is that the boards are in sections, and any section she finishes early will give her more break time! (You get the time from finishing one part to the start time of the next part as break time.)

    I'm all for accommodating pumping and all (did it for ~14mos myself), but it sounds like she's possibly chosen the wrong career. She will have to do her residency after passing her boards, and that's not exactly going to be full of break time, either.

    And think about it: do you want a doctor with learning disabilities? For yourself? For your child? She could have life and death decisions to make -- it's not clear that she has the personal responsibility to take on such pressure.

    And if I sounds harsh, sorry. I'm borrowing some info posted by MDs moms on another board I read. I'm also letting my experience as a biology prof shine through -- you wouldn't believe the kinds of students who start college thinking they're going to go to medical school and become a doctor. (I drive home the point of "what kind of doctor would you want to see" as "what kind of doctor do you want to be" starting on day 1 (of undergrad biology). )

    by cbfly on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 09:48:40 PM PDT

    • If she can pass her exams (0 / 0)

      I'd be fine with a Dr. with learning disabilities.  I don't necessarily understand why she would need additional breaks, considering the allowances that have already been made for her.  45 minutes per 4.5 hours seems like enough to pump, although the suggestion that she could pump while taking the exam seems a little ridiculous.

      Actually, a number of us here have attention deficit disorder and advanced degrees.  I don't see what her GPA is, but it might be because I got bored and didn't read all the text with a fine tooth comb:-)  But I will say she's gotten this far.

      by Erin on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 11:01:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • well... (0 / 0)

        ADHD doesn't bother me, but dyslexia does (depending on the exact nature of her disease).

        That said, someone who chooses to have two under two while in medical school and then wants double the time AND even more breaks to pass the boards is pushing it.

        Apparently the boards are offered several times a year. If her nursing relationship is that fragile (needing to pump every 2-3h every day at 4 months?) or that important, perhaps she should have waited until the next time.

        Somewhere in there, I guess she says she wants to go into research. So, even dyslexia is less of an issue there (misreading or miswriting a prescription or drug interaction in practice would easily cause a negative or even fatal reaction...). But, she still has to do residency.

        There's also a sense that she's looking for excuses. This will be her second time taking the boards, and it's like she's trying to document this so as to use it as an excuse if she fails again.

        I wanted to be on her side. Honest. But as more of the story unfolds, it gets harder and harder to hold her ground.

        by cbfly on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 11:31:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • "Choses to have two under two" (0 / 0)

          I think going this route is a slippery slope.  I wouldn't ever want women, or men, to avoid medical school because they feel they'll be penalized if they have children.  All of the physicians I have seen have children and are more compassionate because of it.

          Interesting though, that the cases that get to court often have a lot of factors in them.  Still, seems like the breastfeeding aspect deserves to be looked at on its own, or somehow codified for the test.

          by Anu on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 07:53:50 AM PDT

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        • I tend to agree (0 / 0)

          When someone crams in too many very difficult accomplishments (which would be really difficult even one at a time) into an unrealistically short amount of time, and then complains that the conditions are too difficult, well, geez, what can you expect?

          To be a parent and have a good career - it's all about pacing. This goes for men, too, btw. Even though my dh did not make the explicit compromises I have in this period in our lives, he did wait until he was a partner for several years in order to have kids. He had kids at 45 instead of 35. I don't think that anybody would argue that 45 is optimal. That's life.

          As for me, I didn't marry or have my son until my late 30s, making a stop in my career midstream feel uncomfortable and frustrating. I have turned 40 with my career up in the air, with some major goals in limbo. That's life.

          I have a good friend who didn't pace herself and bitched nonstop (and I really do mean nonstop) about it for frigging years. Blah, blah, blah.

          RachelD

          by RachelD on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 09:00:34 AM PDT

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          • And I think that's why I'm a little (0 / 0)

            put off by this woman.  It all seems to be about her needs.  Yes, I want every one to have every opportunity, but sometimes it can become a little self serving.  

            by tjb22 on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 09:14:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • And self-important (0 / 0)

              Of course we don't know squat about this woman's personality and such, but in my experience, like with my friend, those who go on and on and frigging on about how busy they are and how much they have to do and how their employers aren't supportive (funny how it's often those with the most flexible and accommodating of workplaces) and how they are working so much more and harder than everyone else, well, it's just boils down to self-importance at that point.

              So that all of their friends have to agree how heroic they are, and how tough it is for them, and yeah, I can't believe they scheduled that meeting on a Friday either ..... if they can even get a word in edgewise. I'm not bitter and disgusted much, am I?? LOL

              by RachelD on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 10:13:28 AM PDT

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              • Maybe its a sign (0 / 0)

                of impending old age, but I have less and less patience for that kind of thing.  I don't believe there are people for whom the fates have decided that life should be just more difficult.   Rather like all of the Hollywood bios about "overcoming" all the obstacles.  Yeah, well, life's pretty hard for everyone from where I'm sitting.  Don't know too many people who get everything all the time.

                I guess I would have had a better opinion of this woman if there was some implication that she was advocating for all nursing mothers...but it just doesn't seem that way.  Rather it seems like she's just asking for allowance after allowance for herself.

                by tjb22 on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 10:28:35 AM PDT

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        • But still (0 / 0)

          did she do well in school?  Can she pass the boards?  Although I didn't notice that it was her second time taking them.  Dyslexia could be an issue, but I have found that people with learning disabilities in general tend to adapt quite well.  Sometimes they do better than those who don't have to work around them at all.

          I agree, though, that this whole endeavor may be overly ambitious for a parent with two very young children.  I'd like to be more on her side, too.  

          by Erin on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 09:20:58 AM PDT

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    • Can you explain residency to me? (0 / 0)

      Why does it have to be such a grueling gauntlet?  Does that really make better doctors?  A lot of standards seem to be that way just to make it hard to be a doctor, rather than ensuring those who make it are the best.

      by lonespark on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 08:02:19 AM PDT

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  • Seems like (0 / 0)

    she's asking for the world to me. I was all full of righteous indignation when I first heard about her request, but come on. I've survived many a day at work pumping only 2x in 9hours for my son because meetings ran over or I forgot extra bottles at home, but to say that she's suffer from medical complications? I don't think a chest feeling sore is a medical complication-if it was, I'd be out of work already at 8wks pregnant since they hurt already. And to find out she's already ONLY in the exam for 4.5 hours a day? If she's in a seperate room, them pump as you take the test-give the proctor a show if they aren't going to give you enough time.

    She also wouldn't be putting off her career if she passed the exam the first time she took it. Sounds harsh? Maybe, but considering I work FT and am completely my Masters degree during while I had 1 son and am pregnant w/ our second child I seem to be doing fine.

    by quiltgirl on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 05:34:22 AM PDT

  • Buck up buttercup (0 / 0)

    She should learn to start taking her lumps now. If she thinks she's going to get special accomodations in her internship at Mass General, she's got a surprise coming.

    by sangfroid on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 06:45:16 AM PDT

  • Mastitis sucks (0 / 0)

    As someone who has had repeated bouts, my guess is it's mastitis that she's talking about.  Mine was bad and I wouldn't have ever delayed a feeding/pumping session without fear of getting a clogged duct that might turn into mastitis.  I also know of several women who had horrible horrible repeated bouts of mastitis that involved hospital stays, IV antibiotics and the like.  While I have mixed feelings about this case as a whole I can see why inadequate time to breastfeed/pump could lead to a medical complication.

    On an unrelated (to the case) note, I agree with previous posters that residency may not be so easy for her right now.

    by Anu on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 07:48:46 AM PDT

  • I think it wasn't 45 consecutive minutes (0 / 0)

    I read this story before, and, if I remember correctly, it was 45 minutes broken into several smaller breaks, so therefore not enough time to pump.

    When my exclusively breastfed baby was three months old, I was back at work one day a week and was away from him for 7 hours a day.  After pumping at work for a few weeks I realized that if I pumped right before I left and as soon as I got home, I was fine (though slightly uncomfortable at the end of the day).  It probably would have messed up my supply if I did that every day, but for once a week it worked.  I'm sure every woman is different, but it seems like she should be OK without pumping for 4.5 hours.  

    by Treena on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:22:39 PM PDT

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