Mother Talkers

F*ck Bill Maher

by anarchist mom

Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 12:22:00 AM PDT

Erin already covered this issue over at huffington post, but I was so appalled (after just managing to watch Friday's episode tonight) that I had to vent.  

First, I've known in my gut that Bill Maher is a misogynist child hating prick.  Somehow I've managed to overlook his hatred of women and children, mostly because his hatred is generally contained, and if discussed, mostly alluded to.  I now feel guilty for overlooking it for so long, I should've done along time ago what I did tonight.  I've untivoed Bill and I will never watch his show again.

Why?  Because I'm an unabashed lactivist.  I breastfed my daughter for 2 1/2 years, I will breastfeed my son probably even longer than that.  I believe the appallingly low breastfeeding rates in the US are a major indicator of women's continued oppression.  To be a lactivist is to be concerned with so many different issues; child health, work/family balance, gender equity, children's rights, the medicalization of health, the corporatization of infant feeding.  Battling for breastfeeding is a worthwhile battle, period.

Here's what Bill Maher, who is a big fan of boobies in ALL things sexual, has to say about breastfeeding:

Last week, the world’s first “Nurse In” was held to protest the case of a woman who was breast-feeding in public, and asked by an Appleby’s manager not to leave, but just to cover up a little bit.

Excuse me Bill, but "the world's first 'Nurse In'".  Are you freaking kidding me? There have probably been a dozen nurse-ins that have received press coverage this year, including a highly publicized case of a woman getting kicked off a plane for breastfeeding.  Pull your head out of your ass, this was not the first, and thanks to pricks like Bill, it won't be the last.  

Breast-feeding a baby is an intimate act, and I don’t want to watch strangers performing intimate acts. At least not for free. [laughter] It cheapens it. [laughter] But breast-feeding activists – yes, breast-feeding activists, called “lactivists” – say this is a human right and appropriate everywhere, because it’s natural. Well, so is masturbating, but I generally don’t do that at Appleby’s. [laughter] [applause] Not in the main dining area, anyway.

Breastfeeding is not intimate, its no different than giving a bottle to your baby in a restaurant.  As Erin pointed out, breastfeeding isn't at all analogous to masturbation as jerking off is not necessary for survival and feeding infants, last time I checked, was pretty important to their health and well-being.  

I mean, next thing, women will be wanting to give birth in the waterfall at the mall! [laughter] Look, there’s no principle at work here other than being too lazy to either plan ahead or cover up. It’s not fighting for a right. It’s fighting for the spotlight you surely will get when you go all “Janet Jackson” on everyone. [laughter] And get to drink in the “oohs” and “aahs” from the other customers because “You made a baby!” Something a dog can do.

Yes, breastfeeding a baby 24/7 is lazy, hauling them around town, feeding them, changing them, carrying all their shit is lazy.  With everything else new moms are juggling, they should also be prepared to accomodate the sensibilities of everyone else they may happen to encounter when their baby happens to be hungry.  Because anything less than appeasing EVERYONE is lazy when you're a mom.  And of course, only the mothers must carry this burden of not offending anyone.  Dudes with their cracks hanging out, people cussing, eating with their mouth open, chomping their gum, walking around with spittle strings between their lips; offend away.  

Why do mothers leave the goddamn house?  It's perfectly clear Bill Maher thinks motherhood in itself is disgusting as he had no problem dragging out a picture of Brittney at her now infamous performance with a little joke about how she is an old unattractive hag at age, what, 25?  Maybe we should just all hide in our homes with our babies so Bill Maher doesn't have to be reminded that the breasts he is so fond of at the Playboy mansion actually serve a purpose that doesn't involve him.

According to Bill, we mothers have the audacity to leave the house so people can congratulate us for giving birth to a baby, "something a dog can do!"  Well I wish pregnant and nursing mothers were treated with so much dignity as a dog in the US.  When was the last time you saw a dog give birth in a vet's office under spotlight, on their BACK, on a big birthing bed which I swear are designed to replicate the crucifixion and torture of Jesus?  Ever hear of a dog getting an episiotomy?  Didn't think so, but back to the point.    We mothers breastfeed for attention!  We just love it when we're sitting in a booth in the back of an applebees and people are staring at us, in fact, that is the sole purpose of breastfeeding, to get people to look at our tits.  

But this isn’t really about women taking their breasts out in public, as much as I’d like it to be. [laughter] It’s about how petty and parochial our causes have become, how activism has become narcissism. It’s why Al Gore can’t get people to focus on global warming unless there’s a rock concert. “Melting icebergs, brought to you by Smashing Pumpkins.”

Breastfeeding is the least narcissistic thing a person can do.  I can't think of a better example of true altruism in this world.  Breastfeeding a baby on demand is not always fun.  In fact, its downright boring and can be pretty frustrating.  Certainly not my idea of a rocking time.  Sure, it is all worthwhile in the longrun and there are special moments, but there were many times when Simone was an infant (generally the only time a child needs to nurse) when she wanted to nurse, and it was the last thing on earth I felt like doing.  Fighting for breastfeeding is not narcissistic either, as I mentioned before, it is fighting against corporate monopolies and sexism, it is fighting for healthier kids and happier families.

And, by the way, there is a place where breasts and food do go together. It’s called “Hooters.”

That's right Bill, the only time you want to see boobs when you're eating is when they're there for your sexual enjoyment.

F*ck Bill Maher, enough said.

UPDATE:
Here is the video, fast forward to about seven minutes in:

Tags: breastfeeding (all tags)

Permalink | 87 comments

  • what an ignorant pig. (0 / 0)

    Never watching him again.

    by Erika on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 12:22:15 AM PDT

  • wow (0 / 0)

    that's not hot </end Paris Hilton voice>.

    Not as funny as Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert, his schtick is an erzatz Tom Snyder/Howard Stern, he's not as popular as Leno or Letterman, and he's ageing, graying and just plain annoying. When was the last time Bill Maher was relevent, anyway? He jumped the shark after his 9/11 pronouncement, so we're talking six years past his due-date.

    by Rachel on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 12:47:19 AM PDT

  • My open letter to Bill Maher (0 / 0)

    Hey... I didn't know Erin was a Huffington Post blogger... how awesome!  I had an open letter to Bill Maher and didn't know where to put it.  I almost posted it as a diary, but didn't want it to turn into a breast vs. bottle diary.  To me, it's always been about the rights of mothers to breastfeed in public.  I posted the letter on The Real Time with Bill Maher HBO.com forum, and only netted a few normal responses... most responses were from total nutjobs.  

    Okay, so here's my letter:

    Dear Bill,

    Let me first say that I’m a huge fan of yours and I watch your HBO show regularly.  I usually agree with you about 90% of the time.  I know you aren’t a parent, so your comments about children in the past have only warranted an eye roll from me.  But this time is different.  Your most recent segment of "New Rules" seems to come from an uninformed point of view.  

    Breastfeeding isn’t a pet cause.  And, it’s totally absurd to compare it to masturbating as it isn’t a sexual act.  You can’t plan ahead, since babies who are breastfed feed on demand.  When my kids were babies, I fed them wherever and whenever they needed to be fed.  Let’s face it... what would you want to see and hear in a restaurant?  A crying baby or one that is happy and being fed.  I think that choice is obvious.

    You often criticize big pharma.  Well, a big part of the pharmaceutical industry is formula.  Formula nets the pharmaceutical companies millions of dollars.  It’s big business and they’d like to keep it that way.  So, every time a breastfeeding mother is discriminated against, it’s a victory for big pharma because other mothers will be less likely to breastfeed in public for fear of discrimination.  Most mothers aren’t looking for attention...on the contrary they are just trying to do what they think is best for their babies.  

    You are an advocate of the environment.  Breastfeeding is green!  There are no bottles to buy and no canisters of formula to throw out.  Unless a mother works and pumps, then there’s virtually no waste.  Even the mother who pumps ends up with less waste than if she fed her baby formula.

    You often criticize the right wing for the way they’ve taken away our civil rights.  Breastfeeding is a civil right too.  It’s really no different than any other discriminatory practice against women.  I’m hoping this will change by the time my children have their own kids.  The only way this will happen is if this country stops making a big deal out of it.  

    Sincerely,
    A mother of two breastfed children

    I wish I knew of an e-mail address of his I could send it to.  

    American Son ~ Wes Clark

    by 1plain1peanut on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 05:31:45 AM PDT

    • Nice letter. (0 / 0)

      At least a few normal people are out there.

      by tarantula on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:03:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • I love it! (0 / 0)

      It's obviously much more moderate than mine, imagine the whackos I'd get in response to mine.  No, really this is the straw that broke the camels back.  I knew how Bill Maher thought about women and children, I overlooked it.  I won't any longer.  It is nice to know that the lactivists who aren't as fed up as me are actually trying to make him think (obviously for the first time) about this subject.  You'd think he would be on the pro-breastfeeding side to begin with, as you mentioned, given his views on the environment and bigpharma, but those feelings would have to trump his OVER SEXUALIZED view of women, which I don't think will happen.  We'll see, I'm hoping this gets enough attention he brings somebody on to argue with his stupid ass at least.  

      by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:55:25 AM PDT

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    • That's a great letter (0 / 0)

      I watch his show and he regularly rants about HFCS and the obesity epidemic too. You'd think that a practice like breastfeeding that keeps infants from being hooked on HFCS and prevents obesity would be OK with him.

      My husband saw it too and his comment was something along the lines of "Wow, He just doesn't get it."

      by music teacher on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:37:57 AM PDT

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      • How (0 / 0)

        How does breastfeeding keep infants from getting hooked on HFCS?

        There is no HFCS in formula.

        by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:59:16 AM PDT

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        • I'm think some formulas (0 / 0)

          do have HFCS.  I've been scouring the internet to see, I never used the stuff so I don't know.  Maybe I'll peruse the labels at the store today, this has peaked by interest.

          by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 08:45:23 AM PDT

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          • None do (0 / 0)

            Nope.  No formula contains HFCS.

            Basic cows' milk formula, which should be your first choice if you don't breastfeed, contains lactose as the carb source, the same as human milk.

            Soy formula contains corn syrup solids as the carb source which are not the same thing as HFCS, or as bad for you, as HFCS.

            The hypoallergenics contain corn syrup solids also.  

            Corn syrup solids are put in there for a reason, because of lactose intolerance, gassiness etc.  

            by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:19:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • My mistake (0 / 0)

              I think I mixed up corn syrup solids with HFCS.  My point was more that he almost always advocates going with the most natural choice.  His stance is inconsistent in that respect.

              Corn syrup is kind of a scary ingredient.  My ped always had us avoid corn for the first year of our babies lives as that is a common allergen.

              by music teacher on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 10:30:32 AM PDT

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              • Totally (0 / 0)

                I agree that his tirade was inconsistent with his usual tirades.

                I also agree on the corn syrup, although I know its necessary and that the soy and hypoallergenic formulas are lifesavers for some babies.  If you have to use formula, it's best to use a regular formula unless you have known cows' milk allergies going on.  

                by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 10:37:24 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    • Love it (0 / 0)

      I, too, am a huge fan of Bill Maher's SHOW... not so much the man. He has opinions I can't get behind, and I think in this case, he tried to make a decent point ("activism" is not as strong a word as it used to be) but totally lost the point talking about a topic he obviously knew nothing about. Things like, babies won't always tolerate being covered up and America is one of the most Conservative nations regarding breast feeding. His point that mothers who Breastfeed in public are looking for attention is probably not entirely incorrect, but it's also a gross generalization that is unfortunate. I think you e-mail is great because it focuses on the issues that are important to Bill- Big Pharm and Green activities- and that is the only thing he'd consider listening to.

      by lilianna28 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:04:38 AM PDT

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      • huh? (0 / 0)

        His point that mothers who Breastfeed in public are looking for attention is probably not entirely incorrect, but it's also a gross generalization that is unfortunate.

        don't mean to jump on you at all, but huh? my sense is that women who breastfeed in public would rather not receive attention for it. maybe some mothers are so proud of themselves for b-feeding that they want want appreciative looks from others, but all the women i know would rather not be lifting their shirt in front of a bunch of strangers. it's done out of necessity, not because people are trying to get attention.

        by Stacey on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:17:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • really? (0 / 0)

          I was a breast feeding mom, I definitely support feeding wherever, whenever, however you want. But not every woman who breast feeds is the model of selfless virtue. To say so would be a generalization. I know a few women who spoke of their public breastfeeding as a "political stance."

          I think when you say this:

          maybe some mothers are so proud of themselves for b-feeding that they want want appreciative looks from others,

          that we're agreeing in a small way. You don't know any of these people- I do.

          all the women i know would rather not be lifting their shirt in front of a bunch of strangers.

          I know women who not only have no problem doing that, but they'll do in regardless if there is someone in the room who might be uncomfortable or, sometimes, in spite of it. And it's their right to do so. But I'd rather not pretend that all women who Breast Feed in public are doing their best to be discreet or are not trying to get any attention, at all.

          Again, BM's (heh) statements are a gross generalization and miss the point of the Applebee's rally entirely- that one woman was really discriminated against and the policy of the restaurant sucks. Seriously, if another guest is that bothered, management can offer to have them switch tables, and those people can, loudly, make all the comments they want and cause a stink about it- but to have a cover-up POLICY- that is stupid.

          by lilianna28 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:28:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • political stance (0 / 0)

            i hadn't thought of it that way. i'm not a lactivist in the sense that i don't readily identify breastfeeding with a political cause. i am outraged when women are treated rudely when they are feeding their babies, but i don't think much about b-feeding laws or attending marches. but now that you mention it, i could see that some people might relish the chance to feed in public to make others confront their discomfort or as a way not to be shamed by others. i see your point.

            btw, i wasn't trying to sound as if my take on breastfeeding came from a place of selfless virtue. i am hardly a model of that!

            by Stacey on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:44:01 AM PDT

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            • never thought you were :) (0 / 0)

              but you're probably a lot closer to being one than a lot of others :)

              I was always trying to cover up too. Thankfully, DD was cool with that. I'm not fond of my size E boobs anyway, and I LIVED in those tanks to avoid showing any of my stretchmarked belly- my "flames of glory" as I came to call them.

              by lilianna28 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:47:06 AM PDT

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          • political stance by default (0 / 0)

            It seems that any time a woman breastfeeds in public, she is taking a political stance by default, as there is a very real chance she will be abused, maligned, ridiculed or asked to cover up.

            I didn't start nursing with any political agenda in mind. It was all about my baby (and to be honest, I was VERY squeamish about nursing until I had my own kid. But I NEVER thought to infringe on any woman's right to nurse wherever the hell she wants to).

            But I will say that if anyone ever dared to ask me to cover up or leave some place while nursing...it would get political really fast.

            by Erika on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 10:41:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • i agree (0 / 0)

              that i would never cowtow to anyone's request to leave or cover up. my response would be to suggest that if they didn't like watching me nurse, maybe they should LOOK THE OTHER WAY. it's not rocket science. i would call them out on their voyeurism or plain nosyness before i'd stop what i was doing.

              but now i'm curious. have a lot of you been "abused, maligned, ridiculed, or asked to cover up" for breastfeeding in public? i b-fed my first for 20 mos and am eight months into kid #2 and i never experienced anything like that. (except for one comment from a squeamish real estate agent, after the fact, telling me "how great" it was that i would just b-feed my baby "right there" in front of everyone. obviously she was a little uncomfortable.) i'm not saying it doesn't happen. i know it does. but i'm wondering if most women actually do experience being hassled, or if we just hear a lot about the bad stories.

              by Stacey on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 11:06:28 AM PDT

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              • never happened to me. (0 / 0)

                I'm thinking because I live in California?

                Or maybe it's because I give off a distinct "don't f*ck with me" vibe. :-) Or so I've been told...

                But I always made it a point to be as discreet as possible. I covered her head when she was a newborn, then switched to nursing tops and button down sweaters, etc. I do try to be considerate of those around me who might not want to see my boobs flopping around...but my baby's gotta eat.

                by Erika on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 11:40:32 AM PDT

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              • Never had a problem. (0 / 0)

                Not even breastfeeding more than 20 years ago.  And I've done it just about everywhere imaginable.  I suppose I was pretty good at it because few people actually realized I was breastfeeding.  

                by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 11:58:17 AM PDT

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              • I would agree with Erika (0 / 0)

                in that I never considered it political, I just did what I needed.

                The first time I ever saw anyone nursing in 'public', it was at an all-female party and the woman in question was European. She surprised me by how casual she was about it and by how un-careful she was about covering up. I expect it wasn't political - it just never occurred to her that anyone would react. She did me a huge favor that day, giving me a chance to realize how our culture stigmatizes breastfeeding and that plenty of reasonable people are going to react badly at first but may come around.

                Shortly before DD was born, the local Barnes & Noble got in trouble for sending a nursing mom to the restroom. It was quite a to-do in the local press. By the time I was going there with DD, there were signs all over the upper floor (where the sitting and children's areas are) inviting me to PLEASE feel FREE to breastfeed if I wanted. :-)

                And yes, this is/was California.

                by shenanigans on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 12:03:39 PM PDT

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                • gratitude (0 / 0)

                  I think we owe a debt of gratitude to the women who DO apeak up and take a political stance on this issue. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have so many state laws protecting our right to breastfeed in public.

                  And even though I have never been in one of these awful situations, it's clear that it does happen, and too often. That's why it's such a staple in the news.

                  by Erika on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 12:16:56 PM PDT

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                  • absolutely! (0 / 0)

                    in so many ways, we owe gratitude to the women who came before us. and i agree, that where you live matters. i live in seattle and if you're not a lefty, you're in the minority. i feel comfortable b-feeding wherever i go. i do try to cover up though, usually with a cardigan or a zip-up jacket.

                    by Stacey on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 02:27:44 PM PDT

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                • European women breastfeeding (0 / 0)

                  A neighbor of mine has family in Germany, and her husband does business there. She told me that she once saw a German professional woman breastfeed in a business meeting, in front of her male colleagues. No special pumping rooms at work, just do it.

                  We are miles away from that. We were both hooting over how that would Never happen here in the male dominated tech industry of Silicon Valley.

                  Maybe someday though. Now that would be real progress, given how much it sucks (heh) to pump.

                  by RachelD on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 01:36:18 PM PDT

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                  • I've breastfed in a business meeting (0 / 0)

                    I was very lucky to have a boss who had 7 kids when DD was born. He really went out of his way to make me feel comfortable bringing the kidlet in with me. I also was lucky to have grandma available to help, so she would hang out with me a couple of days a week and keep her at home one a couple of days a week, and that left me on my own with her just one day a week. I will always be grateful to him.

                    by shenanigans on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 08:30:39 AM PDT

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              • Only from my in-laws (0 / 0)

                No joke.  They made it clear they were freaked out by it.  Nobody else anywhere I went had any issues about it.

                Katherine

                by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 01:15:35 PM PDT

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              • I never had a problem (0 / 0)

                or had anyone even give me a nasty look. Or maybe they were giving me dirty looks but I didn't notice because I was too busy dealing with my twins.

                by Lisa in Austin on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 02:29:37 PM PDT

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              • In New Zealand... (0 / 0)

                In a restaurant, I had a woman glare at me while I was feeding my 6 week old. She called the waiter over and started gesticulating furiously and pointing at me. I got up and went over (after finishing the feed) to ask her why she was pointing at me and shouting and she told me (and I quote...I'll never forget it) that I was "disgusting and should be ashamed" And that if I couldn't help doing such revolting things in public, I should stay home. The waiter came running over and said (to her) "Madam, if you can't refrain from attacking our customers, you'll have to leave." She left. He turned to me and said "I hope you don't think that she is the norm for New Zealanders. I've never seen such appalling behaviour in my life. Please accept my apologies. Have a free desert." I spent the rest of the evening shaking with rage. But I enjoyed that double fudge slice of cake...

                I've traveled around the world with my children and breastfed in some unlikely places (Sacre Coeur, Roskilde Cathedral, the Nobel Prize banquet, British  Parliament, Notre Dame...the list goes on...it actually has become a bit of a quest...how many places can I breastfeed). Either I'm very discrete (I do try), or I give off "don't F**ck with me" vibes as well, because the NZ incident was the only one. Ever. Not even a funny look. The nuns in Sacre Coeur told me how wonderful it was to feed my child in God's house (I asked for permission before I did it...it was really cold outside, or I would have sat on the steps instead). I don't consider myself a lactivist...I was just in cold places as a tourist and needed to feed the baby inside.

                by aussieyank on Wed Sep 19, 2007 at 05:01:13 AM PDT

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    • Well done (0 / 0)

      Really nice letter. May even hit a chord with him.

      by shenanigans on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 11:56:50 AM PDT

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    • This is a great letter (0 / 0)

      Here is a contact form to HBO and here is a link to his website, where I didn't see a 'contact form', but I didn't look too hard either.

      Please try and send that letter though, because it is a good one and Bill needs to be slammed for that diatribe.

      by CTLiberal on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 05:05:27 PM PDT

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    • Different Erin (0 / 0)

      But I totally agree with her!  F*ck him.  Send your letter--it makes a lot of points that he can't argue with.  

      by Erin on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 08:45:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Brilliant (0 / 0)

      You should start a petition with this, let him know in a positive way how his comments were hurtful rather than a hostile manner.

      www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
      www.ipetitions.com/

      by Ellinorianne on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 12:33:11 PM PDT

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    • I hope you don't mind (0 / 0)

      I used your letter as a perfect response to this issue at DailyKos.

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      Full credit to you and the OP of course.

      by Ellinorianne on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 09:15:16 PM PDT

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  • Crazy comments by Bill! (0 / 0)

    This skews my perception of him in a big way. It sounds like he's just never thought about breastfeeding as a central part of life for a short while with babies.

    Perhaps someone needs to throw a blanket over his head when he's eating, just so he can try it out. And yeah, all protesters are protesting just because they like the attention, not because they believe in an important cause or anything. What a dope!

    This reminds me: I want to organize an impeach/stop the war protest in my town. Any national protests I should look up?

    by tarantula on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:10:22 AM PDT

    • ENOUGH (0 / 0)

      Some people are doing the ENOUGH protest every Sunday at noon:

      Started by The Young Turks and Wes Clark Jr.  Here's the link.

      American Son ~ Wes Clark

      by 1plain1peanut on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:15:24 AM PDT

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    • That might be more effective (0 / 0)

      I like nurse-ins but I think nursing moms may want to consider carrying an extra blanket (I know we carry enough) to hand to some uninformed person every time they suggest we put a blanket over our nursing babies while they eat.  That may actually be more effective.  I can just picture asking someone to tell me how eating under the blanket works out for them.

      I have to admit that I am freaked out that I will accidentally expose myself as I have babies that tend to be easily distracted and don't tolerate blankets so I only nurse in public as an absolute last resort but that's my hang-up.  Moms should be able to nurse wherever, whenever without people who are usually not prudish about breasts getting their panties in a bunch over something that is not even sexual.

      by music teacher on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:42:22 AM PDT

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      • i try to cover up (0 / 0)

        with mixed results. if i'm wearing a zip-up jacket, then i can kind of hide my baby in there, but if i throw a blanket over his head he spends the whole time throwing it back the other way and looking up at me like, "hey! whaddya doin?"

        by Stacey on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:20:59 AM PDT

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  • I think your title says it all. (0 / 0)

    n/t

    I childproofed my house but they got back in somehow.

    by lonestar canuck on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:35:10 AM PDT

  • Not surprised (0 / 0)

    I wasn't surprised in the slightest at his comments on Friday's show.

    It's been obvious forever that he doesn't like children, I'll even go so far as to say he probably hates them.  He is also anti-marriage or anyone staying committed to anyone.  He mocks monogamy as boring and for stupid people who don't like to have sex.

    As far as his views on women, he clearly thinks of them as sex objects who exist for his viewing pleasure and who have to fit a perfect mold.  Of course, let's be real, there are many men on the left who feel the same way.  Some of our most liberal brothers.

    I personally don't agree with his views on the pharma industry.  Not that there aren't real issues, but the way he lumps them in with tobacco drives me nuts.  It is just not a proper comparison.

    I thought the point that he was trying to make, by saying that there are 'real' causes out there just didn't make the mark and was weak.  There are so many things Americans care about that would have been a better example (who is on American Idol, lining up for iPhones etc), I can't imagine why he chose this example.  It didn't even make his own point very well.

    I guess he is a comedian though, and part of that deal seems to shock.  Overall, I've found his show kind of boring lately and I catch it if I happen to run into it, but don't sit around waiting for it.

    by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:38:17 AM PDT

    • Me too (0 / 0)

      Of course, let's be real, there are many men on the left who feel the same way.  Some of our most liberal brothers.

      Really?  I mean I know really, but I'm so sheltered.  How could any so-called progressive think any differently on this issue than this?  The default opinion is always based on ignorance, maybe lactivists have a lot more work to do than we thought even on the left.

      by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 06:59:34 AM PDT

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      • Oh yeah (0 / 0)

        Oh yeah, I definitely think so.  

        Lots of so-called liberal men don't like the progressive agenda getting messed up by women's issues.  

        Not sure where lactivism fits in, but I've definitely seen this regarding reproductive health issues.

        by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:56:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Oh yeah....those who believe the (0 / 0)

          "women's rights" movement was nothing more than the introduction to the "sexual revolution".  I have nothing against sex, mind you, but to many so-called liberal males, "women's rights" have much more to do with the bedroom than the boardroom.

          by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:44:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • oh, yeah (0 / 0)

            I think that's why so many of us have the dichotomy of being feminists but wanting to avoid having certain issues being categorized as "women's issues" because that just leads to non-action hell. The minute something comes out as a women's issue, it's DOA.

            by Rachel on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 03:12:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      • Omigosh, yes (0 / 0)

        I can't tell if your question is serious?

        In my experience, a man who is feminist is extremely rare. Even guys who are lefty, or even radical, in other ways. It takes a hell of a lot of personal conviction to give up male privilege. In my estimation, that is why most of the mundane tasks of life are still done by women, even in most (not all) progressive homes.

        I only know two men - in my entire life, personal and professional, which includes a lefty academic discipline - who are feminist in thought AND action.

        Meaning they were willing to curtail work and their own ambition when their kids were little, make real concrete and hard sacrifices (not "just" moral support, which is still great of course, but does not get the grocery shopping done) to support the professional life of their partner and be equally involved in  childcare, and who are as intimately knowledgeable about how the house is run as their partner.

        Hey, hon, are we out of toilet paper? LOL, need I say more.

        And in my experience, more to the point of bf'ing, most men, even the lefty ones, simply don't care that much. They leave that decision to the mother and that's that.

        Is my experience way off here?

        RachelD

        by RachelD on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 01:54:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • I think I'm lucky I have my DH (0 / 0)

          He's a bigger lactivist than me, and don't get him started on male or female genital mutilation.  If only he could breastfeed and carry the babies darn it.  I see that men aren't necessarily behind the women's movement, but breastfeeding encompasses more than JUST women's rights.  I guess that's why I figured more men would be on board with this than other feminist issues.  

          by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 02:07:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • No, You're right on. (0 / 0)

          Even the "good" ones don't understand the concept of "male privilege".  Its so ingrained within them they don't know that it even exists.  And honestly, every few months, my husband and I will have a very heated discussion on this topic, and til this day, he still doesn't always understand.  I'm not attacking males...and certainly not the lefty guys who are trying, but we gotta be honest about where we're presently at.  It doesn't do us any good to assume that we're further ahead than we really are.

          by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 03:02:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Very true (0 / 0)

            we can't have the blinders on.  

            by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 05:45:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • seriously (0 / 0)

            DH does a great job in co-parenting. The balance is really good, all things being equal. But every few months or so, he will mention how "lucky" I am to have him as a husband who does X,Y, and Z. It just makes me see red; it's not about being lucky or him being a good guy; it's about him stepping up and taking on the adult responsibilities to our partnership.

            by Rachel on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:12:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • Thats it... (0 / 0)

              who in the end has to make sure everything is how it should be?  You know, I haven't felt well at all this weekend.  Now, my husband does more than his fair share of the work, and he doesn't complain and believe me, I appreciate him.  However, guess who the "adult" has to be?  And if I slip for a minute, we wind up like we did this morning...no one could find clean socks.  And this is just the small stuff...I'm always the one who's having to look forward.  And as I tell him, yeah, it really sucks to have to see ten steps ahead all the time...but if you're going to say that you are going to take something on, then that's what it means.  You think ahead without needing the "adult" in the house to tell you to remember to do it.  

              Ok.  Better stop before I get mad all over again.

              by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 08:42:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • ergh (0 / 0)

                amen, amen, amen. I totally agree.

                BTW, I love it that with the time difference, I'm awake with the late-niters in the US. Like my favorite all night conversations in college.

                by Rachel on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 08:49:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • My brain is really fuzzy... (0 / 0)

                  is it tomorrow afternoon down your way?  Years ago, when we could first instant message, one of the support groups I was involved in had a couple of members in Australia.  I'll be damned if I could ever keep straight when it was a good time to chat with them!

                  It's midnight here, by the way.

                  And you know...don't know about you, but I never aspired to be "the boss" around the house...its a position I acquired totally by default.

                  by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 08:56:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • we're 15 hours ahead (0 / 0)

                    of you. It's 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday afternoon.
                    Boss, no. Co-leader. Yes. We get there some days, other days, nope. And some issues will not get resolved in my favor until/unless I go back to work outside of the house. Urgh.

                    by Rachel on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:24:37 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              • My DH actually requested nagging today (0 / 0)

                and I said no.  I told him to set his cell phone up to nag (remind) him, I don't have the time or energy.

                by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:52:07 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    • I think (0 / 0)

      he just hates people.  And in a less funny way than George Carlin, so I avoid him.

      by lonespark on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 11:26:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • good timing (0 / 0)

    My DH watches Bill Maher but I've mostly stopped, due to his overt woman-hating and disdain for committed relationships.  It's kind of immature / ick for a middle aged man going on about it like he does, plus misogyny generally doesn't do it for me.  I didn't talk to DH about it, I just found other ways to spend that hour.  Last week he came home and said, "The women at work say Bill Maher hates women."  When I said, "no duh," he looked really surprised.  

    I know someone whose husband works on that show.  She is cool and enlightened.  I've never met her DH, but I have wondered what it would be like to be married to someone whose worklife was filled with that ethos.

    by mamacita on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:20:38 AM PDT

    • Funny (0 / 0)

      my DH won't watch him, he just doesn't think he's funny.  He's no Jon Stewart, that's for sure.  I love Jon Stewart's take on children, you can tell he's so enamored by them since becoming a Dad.  He really gets it.

      by anarchist mom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:39:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • The immaturity (0 / 0)

      I actually think his stance on women/children/commitment is sad.  He seems pathetic to me.  I like some of his guests but I think of him as somewhat tragic because of his immaturity.  He probably doesn't realize what he's missing out on but you have to wonder what hurt him so much to make him hold those views.  Was it his family/upbringing?  A failed romance?

      by music teacher on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:46:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Mocking (0 / 0)

        I think it's fine that he doesn't want to pair up and have kids or whatever, but I don't understand why he has to mock it so much.

        I guess it's part of his schtick.

        by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:58:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • truly doesn't get it. (0 / 0)

          I think parenthood and monogamy and religion are things he simply can't wrap his brain around. It makes No. Sense. to him. He's also crotchety and not willing to change his own mind, but I have yet to see him refuse to let a guest disagree with his views on any of that stuff. Apparently, he's in the spin zone :P

          by lilianna28 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:16:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  • What an idiot (0 / 0)

    I quit watching him awhile back, after getting tired of hearing all the sexist remarks and how stupid monogamy is. But I did always think he was smart. Now, though, if he really believes what he said, he's an idiot.

    by Lisa in Austin on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:48:45 AM PDT

  • What a boob (pun intended) (0 / 0)

    He would have been an obnoxious cad at age 23. At his age, he's simply pathetic. And I just don't think he's that funny.

    by minnmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 07:49:55 AM PDT

  • Bill Maher (0 / 0)

    I won't come out and agree that Bill Maher HATES women- he has some pretty sad opinions about relationships and the like, but he also has a LOT of respect for women on his show, and he was practically falling all over himself to shower Roseanne Barr with his adoration.

    He is over fond of talking about issues he knows nothing about, and having an opinion regardless. I think that's unfortunate, but, like I said up post, it's not as if I'd wanna hang with the Maher or have him over for dinner or anything.

    Bill Maher is a Libertarian, which is why his position about Breastfeeding is strange to me- why are you trying to regulate, Billy? There are a lot of points Bill makes that are colored by his Libertarian outlook. He's not trying to be a Progressive, though, so he isn't a Progressive Liberal Role Model or anything.

    His show? Is important. Hear me out. It's the only one I've found that has relatively balanced panels that truly disagree with each other. They talk about important issues in a (mostly) respectful way. In a polarized world of Right Wing Hate and Left Wing Defensiveness, Real Time with Bill Maher is a show that allows for a different kind of conversation. The only drawback is, as host of the show, Bill gets to interject his "new rules" opinions and they aren't always so great. HE isn't the spokesperson I want for the Democratic Way, and he isn't pretending to be. I can separate disagreeing with him from banning his show because I think it's an important show.

    by lilianna28 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:15:11 AM PDT

    • Point (0 / 0)

      I don't think he was advocating regulation of nursing in public.  

      I think he was just trying to make a point that there are things that we should be 'active' about, and the right to nurse in public isn't one of them.  

      I personally think his point was totally off.  He could have picked from a million different examples that Americans spend their time on instead of the more important issues, like the war.

      by NJmom on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:24:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • That is true (0 / 0)

        and I agree :) Since it isn't important to HIM it can't possibly be important. Now if you tried to get a sweet little dog to stop feeding in public, Billy boy would jump down your throat- he wuvs his animal causes.

        by lilianna28 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:30:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • Ha! (0 / 0)

      Libertarian - snort. I love it. Goes to "prove" my saw that Libertarians are straight white males with good or better incomes and college or more education. (I have no idea what his education is, but he is rich).

      One more snort in the general direction of "Libertarian."

      by RachelD on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 02:00:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • He doesn't get it. (0 / 0)

    Until recent history, women were required to spend huge chunks of their lives out of sight.  As soon as a pregnancy became visible, being "out in public" was no longer acceptable.  Women recovering from childbirth were just as taboo...and yes, only those women who could hire a wetnurse were allowed back into society following childbirth.  Women were, therefore, effectively shut out of taking on any meaningful roles in the larger world.

    This is a woman's issue.  Telling a mother she can't nurse her baby "in public" is close to telling a black man that he must sit on the back of the bus lest his presence offend.  So, Bill will just have to excuse us all if we are put off by his squeemishness.  What he doesn't understand is that if we allow others to dictate standards based on biology, we might as well go back in the house and close the shutters now.  

    by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 09:42:24 AM PDT

    • Good point (0 / 0)

      About the historical aspect.

      Do you remember that even in the 80s Princess Diana disappeared from view in the late stages of her pregnancies? No photos of that, please.

      by RachelD on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 02:02:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Oh, yeah...and remember, (0 / 0)

        there was a minor scandal because a photo of her was published in which she was pregnant in a two piece swim suit.  

        And I can remember hearing women my grandmother's age talk about how at one time, women who were menstruating stayed home and didn't mix in public.  

        by tjb22 on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 03:05:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • To be honest -- this is just the latest .... (0 / 0)

    ... of really bad things Maher has said.  I see several have mentioned this already, but I, too, haven't watched him for a long time.

    And don't be anti-old people (as someone said he was old, implying that that was why he is this way).  That is bogus.  And ageism is bad, just like misogyny.

    You only need to be aware of one thing -- just ONE -- HE DATED ANN COULTER.  And not that long ago, either.  And last year, had her on his show (via TV), ordering his guests to be nice.  I stood up and cheered when one guest turned his back to the screen where she was.

    But Coulter fit the bill -- she was skinny and had no kids.  Maher's dream woman.

    Maher is a pig -- and has been for a long time.

    by Shell on Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 10:05:41 AM PDT

  • Sad but true (0 / 0)

    He's not a parent and I'm sure he knows little about the benefits of breastfeeding even though he is an animal activist and open vegan.

    Rather than condemning and name calling, why not write him and try to enlighten him to the benefits of breastfeeding? (as I scroll down I see 1plain1peanut has put it perfectly and maybe she should start a petition with her letter so we can sign it)

    I also believe part of it was tongue in cheek and he used it as a means to get some cheap laughs.  I was offended by his ignorance and that he was perpetuating the idea that breasts are merely fun bags for his enjoyment and any other use should be hidden (Of course, he doesn't mind hooters!).  I get the anger and I do understand how offensive it is, but I do think Bill Maher is an important voice on the left.

    I plan on writing him and trying to explain what he said belittled the years that women have fought to have the right to breastfeed in public.

    Bill Maher does have his own website and a forum there to ask him questions, that might be a good place to vent your frustration and anger.

    Breastfeeding was very difficult for me and I didn't feel comfortable breastfeeding in public but I encountered some very brutal and harsh criticism from WOMEN who did not understand my frustration.  It was an intricate part of my PPD and my inability to feel like a good enough mother and I shyed away from public forums about breastfeeding because of their, extreme points of view.  I still breastfed as long as I was capable.

    by Ellinorianne on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 12:31:52 PM PDT

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