She sounds like a handful!  How old is she now?

I don't have a lot of good sleep advice since I was really unsuccessful at getting anything going there other than waiting it out until they finally started sleeping alone all night (around age 2-3).

However, on the question of whether baby #2 will be like #1, my first was/is colicky and challenging (still is sensitive and somewhat difficult) and my second was an easygoing, happy go lucky baby.  So you could luck out the second time around.  I hope so.

Good luck and hugs to you!

your second baby "being just like the first".  He won't be.  I've had seven and no two are just alike.  Ofcourse, this makes it possible that he could be MORE difficult, but that's not likely.  And frankly, after living through caring for a difficult infant, one who is just the least bit less demanding seems like a breeze.  Its a perception thing.  I had twins my first time around.  As far as babies go, they weren't individually difficult, but there was TWO of them!  When my next daughter came along two years later, it felt like I was caring for the easiest, best natured, least demanding baby in the world.  Ofcourse, I doubt that was the case, but it felt that way to me because I was only caring for one of her.  

If Rory is really sleeping this little, I think I would ask her pediatrician for a referral to a sleep specialist.  There could be a physical reason.  There are many, many causes that could be responsible...and if nothing is found, at least there might be more practical advice.  

Its very hard feeling as if we are on our own.  We lived near our families when our first four were born.  However, after we moved away, I certainly noticed the difference...and how, pray tell, does one go out and "make new friends" if one is at home with a houseful of small children every day?  Hopefully, you'll be able to move into a new neighborhood that's family oriented.  Ours was like that when we moved here, and I think it kept me from pulling my hair out.  Its amazing how far a 15 minute conversation with another adult can go.  Until 14 years ago, I also had my late sister in law for support...we were each other's support as we were literally having and raising kids at the same time.  OFcourse, it was long distance to call each other, but thank God, even though it was expensive, we were able to call each other a few times and week and de-stress with each other.  

Hang in there...at least with very strong willed children, you aren't so worried when they grow up.  Seriously.  

Karina was a dream. She rarely woke up during the night and was always SO mellow.
Then, I found out I was pregnant with Cristian. I had THE WORSE morning sickness, then at about 3 1/2 months pregnant, I was diagnosed with PUPPPS. It was THE WORST pregnancy EVER. The itching from the PUPPPS was uncontrollable and often, I was up ALL NIGHT crying, scratching my skin with a hair brush and making myself bleed. My OB/GYN said there was nothing that can be done and that the rash would disappear on its own THE DAY THE BABY WAS BORN. That's right...5 1/2 months of TORTURE and NO SLEEP!!

When I went into labor with Cristian, he TURNED!! Yes, he hadn't sufficiently tortured me enough...now I had a "sunny side up" birth. After 2...COUNT THEM, 2 epidurals, I still felt EVERY LITTLE THING of the 4 hours OF PUSHING.

I had Cristian was born on 2/11/99 @ 8:40pm and wouldn't you know, by 8:41pm, the rash was gone.

Oh, and did I mention that for the next 3 months of his life he was colicky? Yes...there was approximatley a WHOLE YEAR of no sleep. It's a miracle I didn't throw myself in front of a bus, so I sympathize.

All I can say is that chances are you're going to have a very mellow baby the second time around. I wouldn't stress too much about your 2nd baby.

Regarding Rory...have you taken her for a drive? Sometimes babys get drowsy while in the car. Or have you tried to keep her up for a long time so that she can crash? Then try and overexert her during the day, give her a warm bath, change her into her comfy pajamas and...duct tape her to the bed!! :)

It'll get better. Hang in there, you're doing great!

I agree with tjb22 on that for sure - the sooner the better, too.

When my DD doesn't want to sleep I tell her she doesn't have to but that she needs to rest in her bed (she can 'read' a book, listen to music, or just think about stuff but must be quiet in her bed). Sometimes my just telling her she doesn't have to sleep makes all the difference - removes any power play from the equation.

Have you tried driving her to sleep? I know it's a desperate measure, but you seem at wits end!

you have got to get some relief.  I actually joined my church simply because I could send my kids to Sunday School for one hour every Sunday morning and someone else would watch them FOR FREE!  (I know, I'm going to hell for that)  If I didn't live in such a small town, I might have joined the synagogue too, just for the extra day of support.  ;-)  I actually sat on the steps outside the building and drank coffee some Sundays, just to enjoy the quiet.  Seriously, though, find a playgroup, a mom's group, something throught the library, anything.  No one can do it alone- and even cyber support isn't the same as real, live people you can talk to and sit  face-to-face with.  You'll go nuts.  Is there something through the hospital where your OB-GYN is?  (Birthing Centers sometimes have groups as well, if you've made that choice.)  Check into the local Waldorf community- there are a ton of Waldorf schools out there, and even if you don't want to go the Waldorf school route, those  moms and dads are some of the most caring folks I've ever come into contact with.  You were right when you titled this I Need a Village- cause you do.  

but when our kids started getting up and wandering, we put one of those doorknob things [that you use to keep your kids out of a certain room] on the inside of their bedroom. We still had a baby monitor in their room so we would know if they really needed something but it would keep them from wandering around at night and getting into things that they shouldn't.

Like I said, if this is just going to make her scream then it's not much help, but if it's just a matter of keeping her in the room, then maybe.

It seems like she'd have to be exhausting herself and fall asleep eventually. I hope you'll get some good advice from your pediatrician. And good luck!

I just want to say that I got down about a paragraph before I started to get into the fetal position and I had to stop reading your post.  I also had a screamer (that word doesn't really even sum it up, now does it?) and I know have post traumatic stress disorder (although my psychologist husband swears I don't), which is why I could not finish reading your diary.  All I can say is that I completely understand and I am not yet to the point of even being able to entertain the idea of having another.  You are my hero!  BTW, no one I've ever spoken to who had this issue has said that they had 2 like it.  There's a statistical principle that says that your next child is far more likely to be closer to average than your first.

i called my dd "the beast" for the first year of her life...she cried constantly it seemed.  something magical happened when she turned one...she completely flipped a switch and became an angel.  go figure.

one thing you said:

"She's only sleeping 4 hours (total) out of every 24...and that's when I just hold the door closed until she gives up and finds someplace to sleep:"

Makes me wonder if you might just start with the above.  i know this sounds cruel, but it might work.  my dd was one persistent little baby.  and at 5 months i was bone tired of not sleeping.  i finally let her cry till she went to sleep, next night she cried for 15 minutes and from that night forward she just went to sleep.  this went against all advice however, after a full day of her not sleeping and near constant crying i was losing my mind by nightfall. we had one bad night and we were done.

hang on...and keep coming back if you need to ask for help.  btw, she is adorable.  and this may go against internet etiquette, but if you ever need a babysitter...i'm in orinda ...or if you want a human voice, i'd be happy to talk.  my mom saved my life several times over the phone when i thought i would lose my mind.

I don't know what the resources would be called in SF area, but every state has some form of "child mental health" services.  NOT NOT NOT saying Rory needs psychological help, but these places are fantastic community resources - maybe you can get a referral to a developmental pediatrician, or a developmental psychologist, or a behaviorist who can help you chunk this apart, and work on it before you have a small baby in the house.

I just google "san francisco" and "behavioral" and came up with this site.  Maybe one of these folks would be a place to start?

There's a wonderful book called "Sleep Better" by V. Mark Durand, that IMHO is the bible for solving sleep issues.  His focus is kids with disabilities, but the strategies are pretty universal.  Another book I love is this one.  It gives some great perspective.

I ditto the remarks by others that kids are always different.  In my family, it was my youngest brother who kept everyone awake screaming - maybe that's why he's the youngest LOL.  He's still a high-maintenance guy, but at least he doesn't keep me awake at night anymore!  My mom confesses to whiskey in his formula.  My two kids are also different personalities.

So sorry to hear you're having such a rough time with Rory.  She's such an adorable baby - I hope you can find some help in evening out her temperament.

so sorry to hear this. it sounds really tough. i agree with others, it does sound like consulting a sleep specialist might be a good idea. if that's not possible, i got a lot out of reading, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth. i know not everyone loves this book, but i find he's pretty spot on about sleep patterns at different ages and he gives you different strategies to use depending on what feels comfortable to you. but that said, it does sound like your daughter is particularly challenging (or challenged) in this regard. i hope your ped can help too.

i also agree with others, the second one is likely to be entirely different. if you can put that concern aside, i think it would be best for you to find relief for yourself right now. i hope you can get some rest and stress relief. hugs to you.

That is so rough. I really hear you. When my oldest was 18 months old, my DH was a medical resident who was never, ever, EVER home. We were also separated from family by 900 miles. I was so depressed and alone, and occasionally thought about hanging myself from the ceiling fan. Good times. ;)

That's when our little darling decided--during one of her hellacious temper tantrums--to jump out of her crib. As the ER doc was casting her itty-bitty broken arm, he told us in no uncertain terms that she couldn't sleep in a crib anymore.

Of course, as you know, no 18 month old wants to stay in a regular bed. She was constantly up and wandering around. Her room was at the top of a horribly steep staircase, so we had to figure out a solution post haste. We bought a childproof doorknob cover, and put it INSIDE her room. She hated it, but hey, at least the screaming wasn't so loud with the door closed! She would grump around in her room and eventually fall asleep on the floor--in front of the door. We'd have to push her out of the way an inch at a time to get inside. It was an insane solution, but it did work.

She continued this behavior until....her sister was born! We put them in a room together and didn't have any problems after that. The oldest LOVED  the company of her little sister. Seven years later, we still solve sleeping problems by letting them have slumber parties together. And our youngest is totally mellow.

My oldest has become an impassioned, bright, strong willed child. She still "rages against the machine" (see my comment called "so timely for me" on the Mother Teresa thread), but she is much easier to reason with now!

There is hope. Everything turned out fine. It was all temporary. It was HARD, but it didn't last forever. Please, PLEASE, don't hesitate to write more about this difficult time. I  know there are many people here who are happy to 'hold your hand' through these hard days!

My best thoughts are with you!

I've never known anyone who had two kids exactly alike, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that, given what you've been through, statistically it's got to be impossible to have another child with such challenges!  I had a pretty good sleeper until about two months ago.  I tried not to talk about it much with people because I didn't want to jinx it.  It wasn't so bad when it was just that he didn't want to go to sleep.  That's OK, I like to stay up late.  But now we're having two-hour, middle-of-the-night screaming sessions.  Not cool!

I've read in several places that when a child is being particularly difficult, it's because they are about to hit a major milestone.  Sounds like you've got a lot going on...moving, new baby (not sure how much she understands about that), an overhaul of your own schedule.  A lot of adjusting.  The only other thing I can think of is look at those beautiful photos of her sleeping...she's a gorgeous child.  And she may have one of her own exactly like her someday!

Could you try a crib tent?  

She is still very young and you might want to keep the crib going if she is already having trouble staying in the crib.

Also, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child or something like that by Weissbluth is a great book and it has solutions for all ages.

Hang in there.  Work on the sleeping 100%.  All will fall into place once you start getting your sleep again.  

: )

That's about all I can offer, but it sounds like you can use all you can get.

One of the first things most sleep-books recommend is cleaning up the bedtime routine.  Sounds like that's what Rory needed to get herself ready for sleep.

Congrats to you and your DH!!

Just a heads-up - at some point in the next week or two, it may all "fall apart" or appear to fall apart.   Most kids will fall back onto old habits for a day or two.  Your challenge will be to stick with the routine you described and stay firm.  She'll get back to the "good" routine quickly again.

Yay for you and Rory!!

:::Doing a little happy dance for you::::

Sounds like you've settled into a routine.  When Harry was a baby, we actually read the exact same books (Goodnight Moon and Goodnight Gorrilla) every night for 9 months- just so that he wouldn't flip out from even the slightest change in routine.  (He was quite the cranky pants back in the day.  He ate the same breakfast for a full year before he finally got tired of it.)  Never underestimate the power of predictability.

Congrats, Round Peg, this is major progress. Sounds like she really loves the routine you have decided on. Good job.

Sleep, delicious sleep.

RachelD

when she was a baby she screamed and screamed and screamed- i used to walk outside with her screaming and screaming just to give my husband and son a break.  i don't remember when it stopped, but then she was just difficult all of the time.  

and she doesn't need a lot of sleep either.  she still screams like a crazy person when she's angry.

and she makes crazy beds for herself too- if there were a changing table inher room she'd have slept on it too!

the other night she was asleep on a very neatly laid out dish towel on the kitchen floor.  

when i was pregnant with her sister i was very nervous.  i kept waiting for her to start screaming, but months went by and she never did.  i was so happy when i realized she wasn't ever going to!

the other morning my four year old was screaming and dragging the chairs around the dinner table and pitching a fit while her little sister and i were trying to eat.  i gave the 2 year old her plate and she said "rude.  nasty" with a disgusted look on her face.  i thought she meant me, but she said "no.  ali.  rude.  nasty."

your second one might be a piece of cake.

hang in there, mom.

i am delighted to hear of your success with rory.  i love the incorporation of a little massage with lavender oil...
bedtime routines are great.  our's was a bath, stories and same lullabies every night.

you and your husband accomplished a lot...enjoy!

so glad to hear it's getting better! i hope you get some much needed rest.