Mother Talkers

Hump Day Thread

Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 10:33:26 AM PDT

The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco. –Mark Twain

Let me set the record straight: The gist of this quote is true -- will get to that in a moment -- but the quote, often cited around San Francisco and attributed to Mark Twain, is false, according to debunk site Snopes.com. Twain never said it.

That said, the coldest summer I have experienced is in San Francisco when I waited an hour outside the passport office yesterday. I then waited another hour indoors, and another hour at the end of the day to pick up the passport. Whew! (If you find yourself in a similar predicament, don’t bother calling for an appointment. Just go to the passport office!)

Still, my favorite moment had to be when I was standing outside nursing Eli as the San Francisco wind blew against us. Fun.

You know what else wasn’t fun? This recent lead article in Salon. In his essay, recently remarried and older father Daniel Asa Rose complains about fatherhood with his second wife. Basically, he feels that he has been through all this before, is bored to tears and prides himself on being a grump.

Now this had the potential to be funny. Instead, I found myself annoyed by Rose’s whining and ingratitude -- how many people in their 50s would love to be parents and can't -- and wondering if the Salon editors have no funny bone? Seriously, pull the plug on this guy.

On an actual funny note, Brain, Child featured a cartoon, which I wish had an online link. Two men holding hands stand in front of a toy store and ask the clerk: “We’re looking for the accused of being gay section?” The toys on display were Ernie and Bert, Popeye, the Teletubbies and Barney.

Happy hump day all! What are you up to today?

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Tags: Mark Twain, Teletubbies, whining, Salon (all tags)

Permalink | 58 comments

  • A lot warmer than you! (0 / 0)

    Summer is finally here to stay in San Diego and I could not be happier! Of course, even in the 'summer' here you have to have a light jacket if you want to be out at night as I was last night at the Padres game.

    Just reading all over the blogosphere about Digby revealing herself yesterday. Another kick ass woman! I love it!

    Talked to Alex a few minutes ago. He has been in Sweden for a week now which means 5.5 to go :-) He sounds great and is swimming and playing soccer and badminton and on the computer all day. Lucky!

    OK, back to hide under my rock here at work where summer is the craziest time of all which means I get to play even less than before. Just call me a serial lurker.

  • The first time (0 / 0)

    I went to San Francisco, I had to buy a sweater when I got there.  But I still felt sorry for the polar bears basking on their cement slab at the zoo.

    Nursing a baby while standing in line is no fun!  I'm actually hard pressed to think of a less appealing activity, so my sympathies.

  • Peter Pan Hall of Fame (0 / 0)

    The guy who wrote that Salon article sucks! I read some of the comment thread, and people were giving him a proper drubbing. Here's one that sums up my opinion perfectly:

    Rose's piece isn't even the slightest bit clever or satirical. It's sarcastic but not in a smart or funny way; the examples he gives about the stupid enthusiasm of his wife and children--how dare they get excited about their first-time-around lives--are lame enough to have been written by a 9-year-old ("a broken stick!" "a red sweater!")...

    As for the content: Mr. Rose, you are a bully. What's with the "rubber band-chewer" references? Jesus! What an ass. Proud of those bullies you raised the first time? You know, the ones who beat others up at school. If that was supposed to be hyperbole or something, it didn't work. And if it's real--that your kids beat up other kids who weren't cool enough for them--then they are jerks, and you are a jerk for bragging about it.

    The way you treat and even think about your new crop speaks volumes about what you did the first time around. This isn't just a weary, "been there, done that" kind of crankiness. This is evidence of a seriously mean, selfish person who thoroughly disrespects his kids. And the way you mock your wife for her concern for the kids' safety? I believe THAT'S the evolution you should have been talking about--you know, the idea that mothers who protect their children's safety generally end up passing along their genes, as opposed to the ones who let their kids choke to death or whatever. God you're an ass. Can't say it enough.

    Letter-writers: It's called reductionism when you read about an ass who neglects and emotionally abuses his family and conclude, "Thank god we finally have someone who isn't consumed by his children!" Like there's no middle ground? Are your standards that low? Erma Bombeck may not have been the world's most talented writer, but, even when she "picked on" her kids to the nation, we all knew her deep affection for them. Same with Anna Quindlen, Annie Lamott, etc. There are rants about kids, confessionals about politically incorrect impulses toward them, that still reveal an abiding, if complicated, love. I suspect most of the supporters of this piece do not have children. I sympathize with your frustration at the obsessive parenting pieces here and elsewhere recently, but trust me, this is not funny and he's not a good dad. Parenting is intense and life-changing. You should probably just avoid articles about it.

    I would hate to be the article writer's current wife, first wife, first round of kids, and second round of kids.

  • traveling!! (0 / 0)

    We're in New England for a big chunk of the summer (from dry and crunchy CA), enjoying the wet, green weather....gorgeous. There was a real thunder and lightening storm last night!

    Digby is a woman?! Hooray! Seems like I heard a rumor about that about a year ago...no? I like Digby.

  • CALLING ALL SOPRANOS FANS! (0 / 0)

    Check out this spoof of the now infamous Sopranos finale, courtesy of Bill and Hillary Clinton. Just click "Play."

    As for that Salon column, I didn't find it offensive. It just wasn't very funny. I think it's OK to admit that not EVERYTHING your children do is fascinating. And the last paragraph of the column made it clear that the old geezer still indulges his little boys, even if he secretly finds it boring.

  • raining in Jacksonville (0 / 0)

    Spending an inordinate amount of time this week at a conference in Florida, which sounds nice but it's inland, raining, not that applicable to my work, and FAR too long away from my family. 4 days! At 22 months I'm not sure she understands when DH tells her mommy will be back in 3 sleeps, 2 sleeps, 1 sleep, but at least he's trying. Evidently she shows little signs of missing me, which is good for her (what, should she be miserable?) but heartbreaking for mommy! I'd like to go home now.

    if you wobba cypress trees then I will wobba you

    by thais on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 11:12:48 AM PDT

  • What happened to Mothers Who Think on Salon.com? (0 / 0)

    I recently read a book of essays that I think was recommended on here or in Brain. Child.  It was a collection of essays from Mothers Who Think, which was a section of Salon.com until around 2000 (years before I became a mother).  I've been trying to figure out what happened, since it seemed to just stop existing then, although I just noticed the Life section of Salon has mwt in the url, so maybe it became that?  Does anyone know?

  • Glad you were able to get a replacement passport (0 / 0)

    I'm mostly a lurker, but thought I'd mention that much of the nightmare of passports this year is going to go on next year as well. They talk of delaying rules changes, but my understanding is the State Dept really doesn't want to do that. The change was poorly publicized, and State really didn't prepare for the onslaught. Hard to believe, I know--this Administration is such a bastion of Eagle Scouts. (sigh)

    I'm a reference librarian at a library where we accept passport applications. I only started there recently, but there are times when one can work the ref desk for two or three hours and not answer a single reference question--just information about passports. Added to that now are angry and hysterical phone calls from those who applied back when State was saying an expedited passport would take 2 weeks when it now takes closer to 6 (their web page says 4, but we've been hearing 6 from patrons). Regular, non-expedited passports? Coming in around 15 weeks though the web site said 6-8 when they originally applied.

    Unfortunately, the place where you applied can't help you once they send out your application (which they're required to do within 48 hours). So here are a few tips if any of you are looking to get a passport in the next year or so:

    1. Even if you don't have tickets, aren't sure of your plans, just know that you might want to go abroad--Put A Date for your trip. It can be vague, "April, 2008. Europe." If you know when your trip will be, put a date a few days before your actual departure date. It's the State Dept's responsibility to get you your passport by the date on your application. No date? It goes to the bottom of the pile to be processed. You'll get it...one day.
    1. If you do have to call, start calling a few minutes before they open to get to the front of the queue. Also, when you hear the message that inevitably means you're going to get dumped from the phone system, just hang up and redial. It can take awhile, but we've been able to get through with our questions about identification docs or other things in the middle of the afternoon by a tedious regiment of redialing and listening for the recording that sounds less mechanical and more like a person. Takes us about 30-50 minutes. (And yes, we have to call the same 800# as everyone who wants to know where the heck their passports are.)
    1. Before you call, go to the web site and get your application #. You'll need to enter your name, the last 4 digits of your SSN, and birthdate. It isn't really helpful info to you except to verify that they are processing your application, it hasn't been lost, and it is a number you can provide the person on the phone as proof that you really have a passport that should be en route.
    1. The relaxed rules for travel to Mexico, Canada, Caribbean, etc. are for those who have already applied and are in the system. That can take about 2-4 weeks; a good way to know when to expect to see an application # is right about the time your check to the State Dept clears. If the check clears and you aren't in their online system in a week, you need to start calling then to find out what is going on--the processing of checks and passports isn't entirely done by the government, of course. Citibank in Delaware handles the initial processing here on the east coast, then passports for our region come from New Orleans.
    1. The more lead time you can put on your passport, the better. It will take a horrendous amount of time to get back to you, but at least you'll lessen the chances of anxiously waiting for Fed Ex or USPS to arrive the morning of your flight. Most passport acceptance agencies should offer you the option to over-night FedEx the application to the agency, then from the agency to you. It cuts down by a few days the wait, but sometimes that extra day makes all the difference.
    1. If it hasn't arrived and you can be flexible with your travel dates by a day or so, the airlines are being pretty good about moving around flights (or so our patrons have said). Of course, this isn't an option most people have.
    1. Last minute travel? There are lots of hand-carry companies that you essentially give the power to act on your behalf at the passport office. It's very expensive, and the application time at the library or post office will be at least twice as long, but they usually have a turn around time of about 8-10 days. The State Dept only accepts hand carries for those who will be traveling within the next 2 weeks, and you will need to provide proof of your trip (copies of the tickets, usually).
  • Rachel (0 / 0)

    Intersting job opportunity in Melbourne...it's not journalism, but I thought you might like to see what's happening in your neck of the woods...

  • Salon article (0 / 0)

    Guy sounds like a fun dad, not. I understand about not being fascinated or charmed by everything your kids do. Really. It can be tedious and mind-numbing, which is why I love working outside the home. That way I can be genuinely enthusiastic during the time I spend with my son in the afternoon and evenings.

    Still, he seems to blame his lack of interest on the fact he's done it all before. If he wasn't interested in doing it again, one might ask why he chose to. Why did he need to get that wife who's 20 years younger than he is? Why did he need to relive this part of his life? Men have such a HUGE problem with aging and mortality, much more so than women, I think.

    The article isn't funny, and they guy sounds like he's not doing such a great job the second time around. So much for practice makes perfect.

  • hi everyone (0 / 0)

    That Salon article sucked. I saw it on Sunday and thought, "That's what they're putting up for Father's Day?" A really bad editorial decision.

    I've been missing my time on MotherTalkers. A few months ago I started a blog with a friend with the agreement that we would each write every other day. Recently she decided she wants to be a jeweler instead of a writer and we agreed that I would take over the blog. So now I'm writing everyday which is great fun, but has kept me really busy. I'm trying to get some systems in place so I have more time to read and chat with all of you!

    Summer seems to be here in Seattle. We're having a gorgeous day today. But the way things go, you can't be sure until after July 4th that the good weather is here to stay.

  • re: passports and fools (0 / 0)

    YAY!!!! you have your passport, Elisa!!! I am woefully familiar w/that corner (having gone mano a mano w/the passport office on a number of occasions) and it's bone chilling no matter what time of the year you are stuck there. And isn't the terrorist till you're proven otherwise, no place to sit no you can't wait inside vibe fun? I'm sorry you went thru it but YOU'VE GOT THE PASSPORT!!!!

    As far as Rose's article goes, I just wanna dope slap him. I'm 52 and enduring the excruciating wait for my second child, a pre-identified little girl with some special needs from China. Man, it's sad that he doesn't know how good he's got it.

    I'll bet Rose was a whiny uninvolved fool the first time around, too-and that opinion was seconded by a friend of mine, a 72 year old guy with a 10 and 12 year old, who LOVES being a dad this time around because he has gotten most of his own crap out of the way and could really give parenting his kids the effort and attention it deserves.

  • And a lot of us getting closer to our (0 / 0)

    50's would not want the chance to be parents again.  Really.  For many of us, male and female, something changes as we age...I loved having my children...I loved being the mother of young children...I look back with the fondest of memories and if I could be that person that I was 20 years ago, I'd do it all again.  But at this age and this stage?  No...and this most probably is due to the fact that I've spent the last 23 years being a parent.  

    However, this doesn't mean I have sympathy for this man's complaints.  When he married this younger woman, he must have known that she would want to have children.  Since this obviously didn't keep him from marrying her and fathering more children, they he should keep whatever complaints he has to himself. I feel very much the same way about people who marry partners knowing that they had children from previous relationships and then deciding to complain...hey, they should have known what they were getting.

    As to passports...my sister-in-law had to replace hers since she had not done so at whatever stage she's at with her green card...however, to do so, she had to fly to NYC and take care of it at the Polish embassy.  She was determined to accomplish this in one day and she managed to do so...but only after crying after standing in line for several hours because she was afraid she was going to miss her flight back.  Someone at the embassy did see her  and took pity on her.  Took only about five minutes to take care at that point.

  • didn't think it was funny at all (0 / 0)

    maybe Salon thought it would be "refreshing" to have a grumpy-old-dad article for Father's Day. Poor decision-making. If they were taking that tack, would have rather Cary Tennis rehash the reasons why he and his wife decided not to have kids. He's got a much better style.

    Sorry about your passport dramas, Elisa. I just renewed mine here, but it wasn't that big a deal; perhaps because there ain't a lot of Americans renewing their passports at any one time via the consulate here!

  • Haven't had much time lately to do... much (0 / 0)

    I still need to write that diary about babywearing.  My "to do" list is quote long though!

    Can I just post a gratuitous baby pic?  She's wearing her MT onesie...

  • Oh, I miss the Bay Area (0 / 0)

    We moved from Berkeley, CA to New England in 2004.  On a day-to-day basis, I don't miss Berkeley.  But the chilly summers, I miss.  When I see a movie set in the bay area (most recently, the Pursuit of Happyness), or hear stories like this one, which invoke the climate, or the setting, I get a wee nostalgic.  

    good luck with the passport ... I just had to expedite my own application (I had time to do it by mail) for a trip to Europe in late July.  Mine hadn't even expired yet, but I had to go and change my damned name, so a new one was required.  

    ~ zuska http://zuska.wordpress.com

    by Zuska on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 08:26:16 PM PDT

  • is it too late for it to be Wednesday? (0 / 0)

    I am slammed to the wall with my new job, realizing in rather painful detail how little the work I was doing was actually, well, work. My new job is great and exciting and challenging and really, really time consuming. The commute is randomly totally dreadful (an hour for the return trip by car, or an hour an a half by bus) or not too bad (today was a half hour).

    I've traded sleeping for 1/2 hour longer in the morning for being apart from my kids for 4 more hours per day. They're still home, with their dad, in the afternoon, but it seems stark when I put it that way. There's no question that this is a more stressful way to live, but then, this is how most working women live.

    The days fly by, and while I don't miss the ennui of my old job, I do miss having the time to stay informed about (national) politics, and to drop in here and see what you witty women are up to.

    The weather was heartbreakingly pretty today, and we snarfed our dinner and strolled over to the pool at the park for swimming 'lessons' which are more or less slightly organized playtimes. We thought T was all set to be a "goldfish" this year instead of an aquaduck, but his following-directions skills are not there yet, and he tends to try to wander to the part of the pool where we are with the baby (who, at 8 months, still doesn't sleep "well" - still wakes two or three times per night, sigh. is it me? - but she LOVES the water). So another year of aquaducking it is.

  • Out of line? (0 / 0)

    I just got back from the park with dd, age 3 1/2.  The kids there were mean!  I swear we've rarely if ever encountered this.   Maybe the fact that we've almost never met mean kids in the past three years is the reason for my shock at what I logically know to be somewhat normal kid behavior?

    The first child was not so bad.  I noticed he and dd arguing, but decided to stay out of it.  I really do want her to learn to handle her own problems.  He was maybe a year older, but when I noticed that it was less of a mutual argument and more him being aggressive toward her, I started to keep a closer eye.  Still, it was just name calling, and while I didn't appreciate him calling her a baby(!), I decided it would be too helicopter to intervene.  She saw me and told me what was happening, so I did what I believe in doing in these situations:  I delt with her rather than with someone else's child.  I told her that she wasn't a baby and she should feel free to stand up for herself and say "I'm not a baby."  Later his mom noticed, took him aside and talked to him, and had him apologize, and I was glad I hadn't said anything to him.

    Next, two boys, probably between 4-6, started yelling at her to "Get out of here!"  and saying "you have poop in your butt!"  This time I just instinctively walked over and yelled at them, "Hey!  Stop it now."  They looked at me,  absolutely stunned, and ran away.  I felt absolutely great about it, even when I saw one crying to his mother.  But was I wrong to scream at someone else's kids?  The words don't sound so bad, but I really did yell at them.  I still feel good about it, yet I know if some mean ole' stranger yelled at my kid, I'd be pissed!  What do you think?

    • someone had to tell them (0 / 0)

      It's not okay to act like an ass even if you're only 4, and if your own mama isn't going to explain that to you, then she can dry your tears.

      I feel sorry for kids who act like that in front of their parents and aren't corrected.  

    • good job (0 / 0)

      on both accounts; I think it's important to empower our kids to stand up for themselves, but equally important to make sure we protect them when they need it. I think you did the right thing and if those parents had made a fuss, I would've had some choice words for them, allowing their kids to be verbally abusive to another, smaller child. So there.

    • If some stranger yelled at my kids (0 / 0)

      because they were misbehaving I wouldn't be mad.  Honestly, I expect you as another parent to let my kids know when they're out of line.   If you should see my kids in a dangerous situation or being jerks then will you please let them know that it's unacceptable.   You don't have to "rip them a new one" or anything but let's all keep an eye out for each other, eh?  

      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

      by lonestar canuck on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 09:17:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Thanks, all (0 / 0)

      Yeah, I think mostly it was okay.  My momma lion exists for a reason!  I just felt a little weird about it, because I know if the shoe was on the other foot, I would hope that the adult would take care of it relatively calmly.  But whatever.  I got to them first.  Nah!

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