Mother Talkers

Play Date with Tutor

by Amy

Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:24:55 PM PDT

When my son was younger, I used to regularly read the Berkeley Parents Network listserve emails, checking the postings from parents who were seeking playdates or to join play groups. Yesterday I found myself skimming the announcements again and I came across this doozy:

Playdates With Three Year Old Son
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We are looking for fun kids to have one on one playdates with our son, who is 3 years old. Our son is bright, happy, and fun, and we would like to improve on his social and language skills.

We will have professionally trained tutors facilitate these playdates, with structured games, songs, and circle time. These one-on-one playdates will be in a clean, safe, and fun environment. You are welcome to come with your child or to drop off (whichever you feel comfortable). These tutors will teach age appropriate skills for your child, such as turn taking, sharing, socialization, following directions, and encouraging communication -- all great and useful skills to learn for preschool.

If interested, please call XXX (dad) or XXX (mom) at...

  • ::

This strikes me as strange on so many levels. The primary oddities: the attitude of parenting as a science project, or the idea that children will not learn these aspects of human-ness unless a trained professional intervenes (although this may be true for children with certain learning disabilities). They've taken something simple--child plays at park with other child--and made it complex with a heavy agenda.

Maybe what I'm picking up on is a profound lack of trust that is becoming pervasive in American parenting, circa 2007: trust in a child's natural ability to learn and grow, trust in a child's ability to acclimate to preschool, trust that there will be time to learn all these things in spite of tension around developmental benchmarks.

Or maybe I'm picking up on the parents' fear of consequences, which I perceive as a related parenting trend. I view socialization as learning the laws of the jungle, which go into effect whenever two or more kiddos are gathered in the name of play. The natural feedback loop starts spinning: if Johnny throws sand in another kid's face, that other kid is going to squall, throw sand back at him, or bonk Johnny with a plastic shovel. Johnny learns a bit about his fellow toddler and is more reluctant to throw sand next time around. This is how we learn to adapt in order to have friends and avoid head wounds.

How many times have I heard or read the line "Play is the work of children"? Maybe the playdate parents above just interpreted that a bit differently...

Tags: play date, preschool, tutors (all tags)

Permalink | 69 comments

  • i think... (0 / 0)

    you are picking up on things correctly.

    it just does not have to be all that hard and preconceived, in my opinion. as long as we, as parents, actively take part in things, as opposed to sitting there staring off into space or blankly watching their child be selfish and rude (can you tell i have had some park drama this past week?) - our kids are going to be just fine.

    we have to make mistakes to learn. and play, for children, IS learning.

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

    by lorin on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:41:38 PM PDT

  • Pay? (0 / 0)

    Do you have to 'pay to play' in this type of situation? Sounds very weird and driven to me on an almost creepy, android-like level. They are 3 and it's one on one? Sad.

    by GiGi on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:49:53 PM PDT

  • A different take (0 / 0)

    While my initial take was similar to yours, I realized that "facilitated play dates" is one of the services that my agency offers.  So, I re-read the ad.  

    It may very well be that this couple has a child with significant social skills delays, and they just didn't want to say so in the ad.  Some families whose children have milder forms of autism would phrase their ad just this way - "improve on his social and language skills.".  They want to attract typically developing peers, and may be concerned that not many families would answer an ad that says "can your kid come play with our child with autism?"

    Not living in Berkeley, I can't judge if the kind of over-parenting you describe actually exists, so you may be right in your judgement.  It's just that I know 3 or 4 families right now who could have placed that ad.

    by Sue in Queens on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:50:18 PM PDT

    • I wondered... (0 / 0)

      ...if that might be the case. But then, I was thinking that they would have to explain that to the prospective playdate parents sooner or later, it would seem. Do you think it would be more comfortable for them to explain the situation on the phone, once some interested parents responded? It seems that could be even more uncomfortable...

      Another question: would "bright, happy, and fun" be typical characteristics of  a 3-year-old with mild autism? I've spent time with an older child (9) who was mildly autistic, and she could be described that way, although I was told that it had taken a lot of work to get her to that point (the fun and happy part). She still missed a lot of social cues and had to be coached/reined in frequently.

      by Amy on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 06:06:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • My first thought on seeing the ad (0 / 0)

        was that it was placed by parents of a kid with autism.

        While you might have to say something to the parents of a visiting child, at three, the delays of many kids on the Autism Spectrum, particularly at the Aspergers end, are subtle enough that you needn't say any more than "my kid has a social delay and we're looking for kids to play with her/him in a structured environment.  The tutor is a lure to get typical kids to come to what might otherwise be viewed as a "charity playdate".

        My eldest, at three (and even four) was very bright, happy and fun, but was not even interested in playing with other kids except to take their stuff.  She could probably have benefited from something like this.

        by nellman on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 09:18:01 PM PDT

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        • Reactions to the posting (0 / 0)

          I'm curious about the "charity playdate" idea. Assuming that the child in question is on the Autism spectrum, as a potential play date family, I would want them to be up front in the posting, or at least give more information.

          That way, I could make an informed decision to participate with my child. Otherwise, it might feel sort of like trickery, or disrespectful. I do think that there are people who would respond to an ad where the parents were up front about the child's delays or condition. Yes, they may respond to it from a place of charity (i.e. a benevolent feeling toward someone in need) but I don't think that's necessary a bad basis.

          In this case, the parents perhaps assumed that a better tactic was to appeal to other parents' self-interest--what their child could get out of it. I think they'd do better to appeal to the benevolent who are inclined to support them in their situation, rather than the kind of parents I suspect will be drawn to the highly supervised playdate.

          by Amy on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 09:48:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Very good point (0 / 0)

            What kind of parent would be best to attract for this situation? That's a good question.

            I worked with a school psychologist who paired a kid with zilch social skills (not development delay or anything, just a kid all of us would recognize as a bit of a terror, an unhappy kid) with one of the most socially skilled kids in the class for weekly sessions. Obviously both parents had to agree. Luckily the mother of the socially skilled kid realized this was an amazing opportunity for her son. After each session, the psychologist would debrief the kids, sometimes together, sometimes separately, about the dynamic between the two. Both kids became adept at naming their strengths, naming their own feelings, and naming relational dynamics, and problem-solving, turn taking, diplomacy with words, etc.

            So I think there are plenty of parents who would be into it for these reasons.

            RachelD

            by RachelD on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 01:48:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • Your eldest: (0 / 0)

          How is she doing now?  Did she figure things out?

          by mamacita on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:47:33 AM PDT

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    • You are WAY too kind (0 / 0)

      Sue.. I think it's parenting overkill at its nadir.  

      by MKatherine1966 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 07:11:00 PM PDT

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      • hmm,not so sure (0 / 0)

        as this, from my experience , wouldn't be the kind of over parenting you'd typically find it berkeley...maybe orinda :)  i think it is quite possible that sue is on to something.  i keep hearing that early intervention is key to helping autistic and similar disorders in children.  being on the ball and figuring out a way to entice other kids to a playdate is not a bad idea imo.  at some point you'd have to explain, but you'd likely get NO response if you posed it as autistic child up front.

        by parentalunit1 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 10:11:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Sounds more like the (0 / 0)

    "every second of the day must be completely organized or it doesn't count" stuff....how do people live their lives that way?  

    I also think that in the past few decades, our sense of ourselves as capable parents has been seriously eroded.  I noticed this happening back 20 years ago when I first had small children.  We live in a world in which most traits that have usually been attributed to "female-ness" have been downplayed to the extent that we would be considered stupid by our grandmothers and great grandmothers.  I  actually consider this another blow to feminism.  

    by tjb22 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 05:58:08 PM PDT

    • I've got a friend like that (0 / 0)

      She's what I call a "high-intensity mom." Plans out every minute, hovers constantly, is always relating one-on-one with her child, even when there are other adults around. And then she tells me how "exhausting" it is to be a mom! I find that I can't even have a conversation with her when one of her kids is around. I much prefer to hang out with her one-on-one, when she's not actively "mothering" her kids.

      I guess I'm probably more in the "slacker mom" camp. My kids and I have many unstructured hours at home. Often I'm upstairs in my office trying to get some work done, and they're downstairs doing ... whatever. Maybe they've rearranged the furniture in the living room, or lined up all their little plastic animals in battalions around the house. Sometimes they're choreographing a dance to the Nickel Creek CD, sometimes they're reading alone or to each other. Or they're getting out the markers and crayons and writing what I like to think of as their first "graphic novels." Whatever. As long as they're not making each other cry, whatever they do is fine with me.

      And yet I feel insecure about my mothering, as if my kids will grow up with some sort of abandonment complex because I didn't sit on the floor with them with their glue sticks and glitter markers and facilitate "creative play." I guess that might be one of the things they complain about in therapy 20 years from now, and vow to do differently with their own kids!

      by trueblue illinois on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 09:46:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Well, then I guess your kids (0 / 0)

        will have to join mine in the therapist's office.  

        You wanna hear about an obsessive mom?  Several years back I had a friend who read to her son every night when she put him to bed.  Not so bad, right?  Well, the kid was about 14 years old at the time!  

        Seriously, I grew  up as an only child for quite some time.  My parents didn't have any more children until I was nearly 10 years old.  They were great parents...but not the type you see today.  Therefore, I learned to occupy myself quite well.  I always thought this was a good thing.  My kids always entertained each other quite well.  As they grew up, they also learned to appreciate "alone time".  As a result, they are all very creative and quite good at learning things on their own.  Somehow, I don't think that would have been the case if I was hovering around over top of them trying to teach them how to play.

        by tjb22 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 10:36:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Yes! When I think back to my childhood, (0 / 0)

          what I remember with the most fondness were moments like this:

          -- climbing the blossoming cherry trees in my neighbor's backyard, and getting lost in their pink sweetness;
          -- wandering down the street and joining the other neighborhood kids for an impromptu game of four-square;
          -- curling up in my closet and reading one Nancy Drew book after another;
          -- writing poems and entries in my diary;
          -- daydreaming outside under the summer sun;
          -- listening to the crickets chirp outside my window as I drifted off to sleep;
          -- watching raindrops fall onto our driveway during a spring storm.

          Not a single one of these involved an adult, and most were experienced alone.

          My older daughter has an incredibly active fantasy life. She'll be a novelist someday. I've realized that she simply has to have long stretches of time without me yammering at her in order to nurture her imagination. She's only 9, so it's not like I leave her unsupervised for hours on end. But I totally respect her need to go play in the backyard by herself or hide out in the basement or in her bedroom.

          by trueblue illinois on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 11:09:45 PM PDT

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      • I'll call you ladies for a reference! (0 / 0)

        I work at home as a freelance journalist. Ergo, there are times when Jess is definitely doing unstructured play, but other times when I'm with her one-on-one. No big deal, so far as I'm concerned. She's very verbal, at normal development when it comes to group play (she's a big bossy boots, tragically. At our last play date, she was running around, telling her friend and others at the park exactly what she wanted them to do. O God.), and a very happy child so far as I can tell.

        I think overfilling children's time and not allowing them to discover the world on their own terms is not a good thing, frankly. So there are times when I come downstairs and every single pot and pan is out of the cupboard and around the kitchen. So what. Odds are, she's stacked them in height order and will tell me which is biggest and which is smallest. I like knowing that she's figured that out herself.

        by Rachel on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 10:57:53 PM PDT

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        • I'm a writer too (0 / 0)

          and maybe, because we need to think and process and formulate ideas for a living, we understand a bit better that our kids need space for their own creative pursuits, too.

          Your daughter actually sounds a lot like my oldest! Little Ms. Manager. She can come across as bossy, but I realized after listening closely that she wasn't ordering other kids around simply to be in charge -- she just wanted to manifest whatever creative scenario she'd cooked up in her head. She doesn't get mad when the other kids don't follow her ... she just goes off and works on her scenarios by herself. She also likes to make lists, and she'll go on in great detail about all her plans for the future (she wants to be a writer, a teacher, a cook, and an explorer, and she'll tell you exactly how she plans to combine all those careers!). The pot trick sounds exactly like something she would have done when she was younger.

          She can be a little overbearing, but I figure if we channel her properly she'll mature into a great leader. That's my hope, anyway!

          by trueblue illinois on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:44:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      • Hey guys? (0 / 0)

        Maybe you could go a little easier on the therapy digs? There are a number of us MTs, myself included, who are psychotherapists. More importantly, I can guarantee you that there are many more MTs who have been in therapy or their kids have been in therapy, or both.

        Being in therapy is not the worst outcome in life, imho - or even an undesirable one. Many times, it takes great courage to see that our coping skills or beliefs are not really helping anymore or in any given situation, and it's time for a change. That's what therapy is about to a large extent, whether the difficulties arise from trauma or patterns learned in the family of origin (pathological or not). (There are many other ways to think about/describe therapy and infinite goals in therapy).

        Snarky statements about "therapy" - esp to your own kids - would make it exceedingly difficult to go to therapy, even if it could really help. As a parent, there is no way I believe that my own range of coping skills/beliefs is the sum total of what my ds needs in life. I'm a regular ole person, flawed but trying. I can only hope he would go to therapy someday if he's in a repetitive dynamic he doesn't like and needs to turn the corner.

        RachelD

        by RachelD on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:11:55 AM PDT

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        • Didn't mean to offend... (0 / 0)

          I think we were just saying that we didn't believe our actions were going to cause our children to place ALL the blame on us for any difficulties they might face in later life.

          I've many good friends who have benefitted immensely from therapy.  By and large, these have been people who have found themselves facing unasked for (and undeserved) challenges in their lives and therapy has helped them gain the perspective that allowed them to meet these challenges.  

          And you must forgive me again, for now I'm giggling.  I was going to make further comment about the stereotyping of therapists when the Caveman/therapist commercial popped into my brain.  

          by tjb22 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:51:15 AM PDT

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          • LOL!! I love those (0 / 0)

            caveman ads!!!  I actually laugh every time they come on especially the therapist one.  

            But I totally hear you Rachel. We probably do need to be more aware of how we frame our discussions around therapy, although I can't think that any MT is truly dismissive of therapy.  I am very PROUD of the work I accomplished in therapy.  I spent 10 years at it and some of it in pretty intensive 3x a week on the couch kind of therapy.  I sought help immediately after my divorce for my dd and for myself. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made.  I could go on and on as to the benefits and never once have I felt embarrassed or compromised by the fact that we went...quite the opposite.

            So here is a shout out to all our therapist MTs...I am pretty certain we have all benefitted in one way or another to your collective knowledge and insights.

            by parentalunit1 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 10:57:53 AM PDT

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          • Dare I ask (0 / 0)

            if the Caveman is the therapist or the client? LOL. I haven't seen those.

            Thank, tjb and parentalunit, for hearing me out. Normally this stuff doesn't strike me as dismissive of the endeavor as a whole, but today it did. Something to process, I s'pose  :).

            RachelD

            by RachelD on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 02:02:02 PM PDT

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        • I didn't mean to offend either (0 / 0)

          I'm a veteran of therapy myself ... in fact, I spent 10 weeks in an in-patient hospital for treatment of depression when I was 18, and therapy saved my life. I've also gotten a lot of it as an adult. It was absolutely necessary for me to transcend what was  a pretty difficult childhood (alcoholic father and everything that goes along with it).

          Because of therapy, I've been able to re-write my destiny. I've been able to establish a healthy marriage and create a loving home for my two girls. I'm a fundamentally happy person -- and I couldn't imagine being this way without all the help I've received from some wonderful, talented therapists.

          So, I'm actually not being snarky about therapy ... I'm sure that despite my best efforts, my kids will grow up with some issues about me and their upbringing. I hope that if they do, therapy will help them heal -- and help them create the healthiest, most joyful life possible. It does help me relax as a parent, to know that if they suffer in any way from my inadvertent mistakes, that there are avenues for healing down the road.

          I think you are doing very important work -- my hat's off to you. :-)

          by trueblue illinois on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 09:17:16 AM PDT

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        • And just to add one more thing ... (0 / 0)

          I think our therapy comments were not aimed at therapists as much as they were at this prevailing idea that if you don't overschedule your child and oversee everysingleminute of their existence, that they will somehow grow up to be damaged beyond repair.

          I suffered a lot under that assumption as a new mom -- and now I'm just mad that any mom has to stress out about it, either. I picked up one of those "welcome baby" magazines at the pediatrician's office the other day, and I swear the message is still coming through loud and clear: Whatever you're doing as a mother, it isn't enough! You must buy this product, plan this activity, second-guess yourself constantly! Or you will fail your child!

          To that I say: Bah!

          by trueblue illinois on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 01:10:47 PM PDT

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          • Yes - buh bye to all that (0 / 0)

            Now I see your larger message ... the whole overscheduling/overparenting problem, and if you don't, your kid is in for emotional problems. Nice. It's really hard to get away from. I have posted before that that overparenting message has gotten me down, too, even though I know better. Even yesterday I stayed in all day with ds doing laundry and I felt bad for him, not getting to do anything "fun". It's everywhere!

            Thanks, trueblue.

            RachelD

            by RachelD on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 02:08:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • My parents are psychiatric social workers (0 / 0)

          who work with the extremely mentally ill. My uncles were/are (one deceased) psychiatrists (the dead one was a specialist in pediatric/youth psychiatry). My grandfather was a psychiatrist and head of the school of psychiatry at Boston University. The uncle who's still alive is a professor of psychiatry at BU. I one visited a child psychiatrist (veeeery briefly, like, two sessions. My mom thought I had issues. The psychiatrist thought my mother had the issues, not me.) Believe you me - bagging on psychiatry/therapy would be totally rejecting my family, its history and my upbringing. I think what we're poking fun at (or at least I am) is the idea that if we as parents don't get Every Last Thing right, our kids are going to be flawed beyond belief.

          Funnily enough, all the therapists I knew growing up (and we're talking a really lengthy list, given my parents' profession) joked about being excited that their kids hit 18 so that they were responsible for their own therapy bills...

          by Rachel on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 02:11:05 PM PDT

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          • Shudder (0 / 0)

            Why do I have "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" running through my head.   Man, every dang thing anyone did at your house must have been analysed to death.  

            Of course, my parents were high school teachers so although I never had to go to therapy I never got away with anything...we all have our crosses to bear.   Snort.

            "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

            by lonestar canuck on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 02:15:26 PM PDT

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            • yes and no (0 / 0)

              the good thing about social workers is that they're not therapists. The bad thing about psychiatric social workers is that they take enough psych to be amateur therapists. ;-)

              Despite that, I had a great upbringing (unless I'm repressing it all...). My folks worked for a very progressive, groundbreaking program, and we would often go into work with them. We called the program our second home. As a result, both my sister and I have a strong sense of social justice and a lack of stigma surrounding mental illness. And a huge trove of Freudian v Jungian jokes. ;-P

              by Rachel on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 02:24:29 PM PDT

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    • intriguing: (0 / 0)

      We live in a world in which most traits that have usually been attributed to "female-ness" have been downplayed to the extent that we would be considered stupid by our grandmothers and great grandmothers.

      tjb, can you expand on this?  I'm not sure what you're getting at, but it sounds interesting.

      by mamacita on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:46:44 AM PDT

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      • Me too (0 / 0)

        I was very interested in this comment as well, and would love it if you expounded in a diary.

        by Amy on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 10:23:28 AM PDT

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      • Hmmm....my brain is very slow today... (0 / 0)

        lets see if I can explain myself.

        Think about the past hundred years.  Think about how our foremothers lived a hundred years ago.  When they needed advice, think about where they got it from.  Women relied upon other women.  And women were responsible for so many things...they ran households in a way that would make most of us exhausted just thinking about.  This involved more than just household chores, too.  It wasn't a convenient age, so the amount of organizational skill required was massive.  On top of this, they relied on themselves in large ways to educate their children, see to their families healthcare, etc.  

        Over time, we became more and more reliant on "professionals" that were part of the male power structure.  Things that had long been the province of women seemed to be almost targeted for this takeover.  Suddenly, we needed advice from this power structure to do more and more of our regular tasks.  We suddenly needed them to tell us how to be wives to our husbands, how to carry, birth, feed and care for our children, etc.  This stealth strategy worked quite well on women and families aspiring to a newly emerging middle class.  

        For example, I can't imagine my great grandmother letting a doctor tell her when it was appropriate to give her infant solid food or when to stop breastfeeding.  Women from that time would have either been greatly insulted or greatly amused by such attempts.  However, women became quite used to relying on such "professional" advice in every area of their lives.  

        I personally think we have lost something.  Would mankind have existed this long if we needed instruction on how to organize our children's play?  How did we, as women, allow ourselves to come to this place?  We've gained much over the past century, but I can't help but think that we've given up much, too. We've lost our confidence...or, we've allowed it to be taken from us in ways that would have been unimaginable a century ago.

        And ofcourse, I'm not sure if my great grandmothers are looking down in amusement, disgust or anger.

        by tjb22 on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 05:27:28 PM PDT

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  • re: playdate.....yikes!!! (0 / 0)

    I read BPN all of the time and contribute occasionally as well, so i can't believe i missed this one!

    Your gut is right on this one, Amy, it does seem a little odd.

    But on the other hand, there is a huge issue with kids with PDD, autism, and Ausbergers needing extra social skill reinforcement, to the point that there are social skills classes and a huge industry springing up to support the kids and their parents. I'm fascinated-is that what's going on here? Or are the parents first timers who are kinda freaked out?

    Hmmmm.......

    by poppygirl on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 06:26:14 PM PDT

    • Could be... (0 / 0)

      now that I think about it, I know that our public school system has pre-school classes for children with such developmental disorders.  Since they want to improve these kids' socialization skills, each year they open up these classes to "normal" kids on a first come, first serve basis.  

      by tjb22 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 06:29:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • time to move back to planet earth? (0 / 0)

    where us regular folks just call people up and ask them to bring their kid over for a day of hot wheels flying through the dirt & grass and across the front porch. i might turn the hose on them if it's hot enough. they might be barefoot. Sometimes they will play alone. While I sit on the porch and read. uh oh.

    by brave on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 06:43:51 PM PDT

  • I've now seen it all. (0 / 0)

    Seriously. I always thought Berkeley was another planet now I know I'm right... "all useful tools for PREschool?"  Since when ddid going to preschool require TOOLS  what happened to LEARNING THEM THERE!   Give me these parents and let me plop them down in small town NH for a dose of reality...

    (goes back to crotechy Yankee corner muttering under breath)

    by MKatherine1966 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 07:10:13 PM PDT

    • we're in the same corner (0 / 0)

      I'm willing to cut the slack in case this is a developmentally challenged kid, although I'm with Mamacita that it's a bit disengenous not to mention it up front. But if it is a normal kid, and it's a tutor, O...M...G... I love capitalism. It'll provide a service or a product for every hare-brained individual. And charge an arm and a leg for it. Hey, if this is true, I'll be happy to restyle myself as a playdate tutor. Jess will be my adjunct. There are heaps of try-hard, over-monied, overly anxious rich folks here in Melbourne that I could sell this to. Rich, I tell you, I could be Rich!!

      I thought at least half the point of a playdate was to get together with other parents and kick back and talk. The other half being getting a bunch of kids together to run each other into a state of exhaustion!

      by Rachel on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 09:04:36 PM PDT

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  • Bwahahahahahahahahaha (0 / 0)

    Provided we're not talking about a child with Asperger's here or another developmental issue...if you have to hire a professional to run playgroup you suck as a parent.  

    Playgroup is about the kids having disorganized fun and the parents drinking too much coffee and complaining about how little sleep their getting and when the last time they got thrown up on was.    Playgroup is supposed to be just a fun time for mom to chill out and realize that she's not a complete f*ck up as a parent because she gets to share a few moments with people who are just as trapped by small children as she is.   Playgroup is where someone eats a bug and you never know whose snot you're going to get on you.   Might be your kid's might be someone else's.   These people are going to screw up playgroup by bringing in professionals and I won't stand for it.    

    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly"

    by lonestar canuck on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 07:31:18 PM PDT

  • which one of you Berkeley folks (0 / 0)

    is going to call and get the scoop on this?  If it's for real -- typical 3 year old with parents in overdrive -- it's one for the record books.  

    OTOH, if it's a child on the autism spectrum, I think it's a bit disingenuous not to mention it -- although, we all figured that out so maybe most potential pay- I mean play -- dates would.

    Really -- someone has to call.  The suspense is killing me!

    by mamacita on Mon Jun 18, 2007 at 07:33:44 PM PDT

  • Late (0 / 0)

    Coming late to this, but it strikes me as a kid who has some delays also, as Sue and others above already said.  

    They should probably write it in the ad, but maybe they don't really have a diagnosis yet?

    I hope, if that is the case though, they will be honest with the prospective playdaters when they email.  That is something, as a parent, you would want to know, especially if this 'tutor' is some sort of professional.

    by NJmom on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 04:45:45 AM PDT

    • At the phone call (0 / 0)

      I think I'd reveal a bit more at the phone call, once people have taken that first step.

      Also, some of the families I work with don't really have a "label" at this young of an age.  "language and social delays" may be the best description they have.  With Early Intervention, kids with mild to moderate delays are getting identified younger, but don't often need a label to get services.

      And, even if a child has a diagnosis of autism at 3yo, there can be such a range of symptoms, that families are careful who they reveal that label to.

      by Sue in Queens on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 05:07:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Some thoughts on professional "tutor" (0 / 0)

    I'm not sure what a professional tutor is, really, as described in this ad. Not an educator, not a therapist, so what makes someone a professional "tutor" of social skills, rather than academic skills?

    If this person is a mental health professional of some kind, there is an ethical obligation to inform the parents that he/she is performing interventions with the kids - or at least one of the kids. Maybe the person is a preschool or kindergarten teacher looking for an extra gig? (But why not then say that?).

    The whole thing seems like there is some missing information.

    RachelD

    by RachelD on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:51:47 AM PDT

  • "tutor" (0 / 0)

    in this context (if, as we suspect, the child is somewhere on the autism spectrum) might be a Bachelor's level ABA skills trainer (Applied Behavior Analyst), or a Bachelor's level Floortime person, or just a lowly paid person who's "good with kids," like someone who is hired as a classroom aide, and may or may not be magical.

    If that's the case -- that the child is on the spectrum -- then I do have to applaud these parents for trying to find some kids for their child to play with, even if the set-up is initially sort of artificial.  I work with lots of kids who may or may not be on the spectrum but whose parents are so focused on 1:1 therapies between their child and an adult that all opportunities for interactions with typical peers have been squeezed out.

    In California, if the agency in charge of developmental disabilities says you can have the money to hire a 1:1 aide or ABA person or social skills trainer, you are then often left to find that person yourself (in all your spare time, and in all your serene wisdom as a freaked-out parent of a newly diagnosed child).  So maybe this family got approved for a certain number of hours of social skills training, and this is their way of trying to put it all together.  Bravo to them, in that case.

    by mamacita on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:06:46 AM PDT

    • Quick question, slightly OT (0 / 0)

      Would an ABA trained person have the same ethical obligation of informed consent? Just wondering .... I don't have experience working with ABAs.

      And given all the alternatives, using the word "tutor" is less intimidating than saying Applied Behavior Analyst, that would be very hard. If we are reading this ad correctly, these parents are working really hard to do these early interventions.

      But the mystery may not get solved. (Yikes, what if this mother is on MT??)

      RachelD

      by RachelD on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:21:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • not sure about that (0 / 0)

        There is a professional association for ABA therapists so I imagine there's an ethics code.  In this case, the parents are doing the advertising.  It would be interesting to see how the disclosure, if any, would work.  As Sue mentioned, if there's no firm diagnosis it might be that all the parents know is they want to work on their child's social and language skills -- which they have already mentioned.

        It's an interesting question, because in my school district we offer blended-inclusion classrooms (15 typically-developing kids and 5 kids with special needs) at the preschool level.  Part of the reason we place special needs kids in those classrooms is so they can benefit from interactions with typical peers. But the parents, to my knowledge, are not specifically informed that their kids will be acting as role models or even as therapeutic partners.  

        by mamacita on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 09:44:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • Hmmmm Ethics what a concept (0 / 0)

        lolol

        If someone is a "Board Certified Behavior Analyst" (which is what I am) or a "Board Certified Associate Behavior Analyst" (similar knowledge, a little bit less training, without an advanced degree) they would be obligated to adhere to ethical guidelines.

        But some of the ethical guidelines might be in conflict here - it would depend on the specifics.  You are obligated to maintain confidentiality, which means you can't tell the other parents that this kid has autism or that you're doing behavioral interventions unless the parents agree.  But you can say "we're working on strategies to help Susie improve her language and social skills.  I'm going to set up specific play activities and will be prompting Susie in what to do.  I may coach your child in how to respond".  That is probably enough disclosure.

        As for what you call yourself - "tutor" may be the closest the parents could come to in describing who this person is.  Saying "Behavior Therapist" or "Instructor" would be a definite turn-off to prospective parents.  As mamacita said, it's most likely a HS or college student, or young college grad who has a little bit of experience and is good with kids.  We set up an arrangement like that for one of our families last summer.  The little girl is "bright, happy, and fun" but not a clue on how to engage other kids or to respond to their play cues.  We found an enthusiastic college student, wrote out some play scripts and ideas, watched a play date or two, and then let them go.  The mom specifically DID NOT want the other parents to know her child has autism (although I'm sure some suspected) and DID NOT want them to know she was receiving services from our agency.  So little girls came over to play, and Jackie played with them and helped Brittany learn new skills.

        In all, I'm not sure why this thread inspired so much reaction!  Maybe because I work in an affluent (over parenting?) community - this just doesn't seem that strange to me!

        Now that I think of it, this ad isn't neccesarily placed by parents who are over-involved, but may be designed to attract those parents.  I mean, if you're a parent of a child with autism and you're trying to attract typical kids - this ad is designed to sound like the other kid will benefit - perfect for the over-parenting parent that some MTs have assumed the poster is.

        by Sue in Queens on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 10:19:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • selling the arrangement to potential (0 / 0)

          playdates:

          I agree with Amy that I would be turned off to find out that, contrary to the way the ad reads, the real benefit would be to the advertiser's child.  If you need a little help with your kid, I think there are plenty of people out there who would be willing to help, but please don't pretend it's providing the other child with something he or she wouldn't have picked up without the intervention.  

          I know a friend of mine was proud of the fact that her kid was a "peer model" for a boy with autism -- it made her feel good about herself, and it confirmed her impression that her own child is spectacular.  Although there was an adult present to facilitate the interactions, I think my friend actually would have been a little offended by the idea that her kid could have benefitted from the tutor as well.  She enjoyed feeling benevolent.

          by mamacita on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 01:30:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        • that's exactly my read (0 / 0)

          although we will never know i suppose. i can see how this might have been written to give the overparenting group an incentive by parents whose child would benefit from the social interaction.  look, it isn't as though the child has a TB.  and there are likely plenty of parents who would like to socialize their child more.  in sf it is nearly impossible to find a preschool, my colleague is having a helluva time.  a little structured play time for those who have not yet landed a preschool, just might be a win win for all.  

          i can sure see how a parent who suspects their child may be autistic would look for this kind of arrangement.  afterall the parents are invited to stay so they could determine quickly if the environment doesn't suit them or their child.  i not sure i agree that fully disclosing the suspicion of autism in unethical.  i think the stated desire to "improve his social and language skills" is really all anyone is entitled to know.  

          by parentalunit1 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 03:44:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  • I'm going to brag (0 / 0)

    While visiting relatives this past weekend, my aunt & uncle kept making comments about how wonderful it was that my 11-month-old could sit and play by himself while we had dinner.  Apparently their grandchildren have some difficulty with it.  No big mystery...I leave him alone!  I give him an array of things to look at, grab, and chew on, and he's happy for ages.  He's just learned to clap & say "yay" so that's a favorite activity of his right now, and he does not need anyone looking at him for him to enjoy doing it.  

    It was very important to me that he learn to occupy himself and find interesting things to do without me waving new things in his face constantly.  And I think a bit of boredom is good for anyone, including kids.  I'm happy this seems to be working.  I hope it will make him imaginative, curious, and self-sufficient.  I do not want him to be the kind of kid who gets $1000 worth of electronics for a holiday and is bored by the time the day is through.

    by cynmill on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 02:52:47 PM PDT

    • aaawww (0 / 0)

      love those stories, Cynmill. What a joy little Gus must be!

      I did much the same with Jess from a very early age, because I wanted her to discover the world without me being an intermediary, and because I wanted her to be able to entertain herself when I was working. It does work, although now that she's two, I'm discovering it's a two way street. She is content to give me my space to work and play independently, but I have to respect that she's going to want company to play with her/read with her at regular intervals.  I actually like it.

      by Rachel on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 03:55:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • You put it exactly right (0 / 0)

        I do want to share my world & interests with him, but I also want him to explore and find his own passions and share them with me.  I'm a person who likes variety, so it suits us for Gus to play on his own and then we do things together.  Not too much or too little of one thing.  I think it really helps prevent resentment & burn-out.

        by cynmill on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 09:14:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • not bitter or anything... (0 / 0)

      But I have tried so hard to let my kids play on their own, and they are just not having any of it. They are demanding little extroverts that are not at all interested in learning to play on their own. They are both happiest when surrounded by other people...but if five other children aren't available, I'll do just fine. I used to think that there was something wrong with the way I parented, until I started talking to other people and reading books (How to Raise your Spirited Child...hate the title, but it does describe my kids). Now I recognize that some kids are just like that. And they will probably turn out to be normal, but will always be extroverted, people loving types. And that's just fine. I've spent too long convincing myself that it was something that I was doing wrong, and that parents of kids like cynmill's son had all the answers. But now I've realized it's just the temperament of my kids. And I'm sure I was exactly the same. As my mother likes to say "paybacks are hell".

      My three year old is getting better at imaginative, on her own play. FINALLY!!!! Of course, my fifteen month old is still refusing to leave me alone. But I can occasionally convince him to play with his sister instead for a few minutes....

      by aussieyank on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 05:45:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • It's absolutely temperment (0 / 0)

        The only thing I knew when I started out is I didn't want DS to be like my nieces.  My SIL was in their faces constantly and they've turned into kids who not only can't play by themselves, but if they're doing anything, someone has to watch them.  I've been asked to watch them play on the computer or watch them watch a video.  I think it's crazy.

        So I just figured I'll try letting DS alone and see what happens, and it seems his temperment allows him to play OK by himself, although he does generally like someone in the room.  I think (or hope anyway!) that he's still fairly social because he'll go to anyone and loves it when people pay attention to him.  He's happy either way, so I got lucky.  DH says the second kid will probably be completely different!  And who knows?  Your kids will probably turn out able to accomplish tasks by themselves when it's necessary just fine, especially as they get older.

        by cynmill on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 07:41:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • boy do I hear you! (0 / 0)

        My DS is not exactly an extravert -- he is shy and cautious in new situations, but once he warms up he goes large.  When he was little, especially, the idea of being on his own felt like punishment to him.  It was just so much more fun to be together.  I can't tell you how many hours I spent cooking up ways for him to be happy by himself for a while, but whenever he was good and interested and I tried to step away, he would give me this tragically abandoned look.  My dissertation took waaaaay longer than I expected.

        I'm a hardcore introvert.  I crave silence, solitude, and reading.  Those first few years were hard.  Things got easier when other people were at least as interesting to him as me, and now of course at 13 he does just fine without me.

        So, hang in there.  It gets easier.

        by mamacita on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:14:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • aw, sory to hear you were (0 / 0)

        beating up on yourself. Hope I wasn't coming off as too smug or judgey for having a daughter that will do periods of independent play (the caveat being that there are times when it's simply hours and hours of wanting to be with Mummy and Daddy!)

        Absolutely, it depends on temperment. None of us have the answers - and most of us only have enough sanity and rational thought to get through to the kid's bedtime! And most of us look at someone else and their kids and wonder "what's (s)he doing right that I'm doing wrong?" Funnily enough, I'm sure there are parents of introverted kids that would kill to have your children's temperment!

        by Rachel on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 03:59:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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