Mother Talkers

"That's not a firefighter.  That's a woman."

Mon May 14, 2007 at 08:40:13 PM PDT

I've written in an earlier diary about how determined I was to raise my 2.5-year-old son gender neutral.  (For those interested, he's still wearing only pink and now insists he's a girl.)  He showed a strong interest in trucks from an early age, and I grudgingly gave in to toys, clothing, and books with a truck theme.  I come from a family of firefighters, and once his interest in fire trucks was documented, he got several gifts of books about firefighters.  I was disappointed that some of them were old-fashioned, such as The Little Fire Engine about Fireman Small and his men.  However, the old-fashioned books still had cool sound effects and pictures of bright red trucks, and my son wanted to hear them frequently.

Last week, we were reading a book that recently came as a gift from one of my firefighter uncles.  On one page, there were a group of several firefighters, and one of them was a woman.  My son pointed to her, and said "What's that?"  When I told him it was a firefighter, he disagreed with me, and said "That's not a firefighter.  That's a woman."  I explained that women can also be firefighters, but he disagreed vehemently and absolutely would not be convinced.  If you have or have ever had a 2.5-year-old, you can imagine how this conversation went.

I started to feel queasy.  We've been so careful to raise him in a world free of gender stereotypes.  We shield him from television, and he's with a parent nearly all of his waking hours.  We make sure to balance our own use of pronouns when speaking of people in different professions.  We realize at some point he'll need to enter the "real world" and will be exposed to stereotypes, but we figured the later he learns them, the less ingrained they'll be.  Yet at just 2.5 he's already made up his mind that firefighters are men.  We know that he must have gotten this idea from his books, and I'm regretting not screening them more carefully and following my initial hunch that some of them were too stereotypical.

So we've decided to attempt a re-education campaign in our house to balance the stereotypes he's already started to learn from books.  Yesterday, we walked past a firehouse, and stopped in front to talk about the firefighter inside and what she might be doing.  We saw her boots next to the truck, and wondered whether she had been to a fire recently.  My son looked skeptical at first, but then bought into it surprisingly quickly and is now convinced there is a woman firefighter who works in that building (which may or may not be true).  My husband and I have decided that from now on, we will assume ALL construction workers, police officers, etc. are female unless we are talking about a specific person who is clearly male.

Has anyone else had experience attempting to shield kids from gender stereotypes?  How can we explain the fact that there are some jobs that are typically done by males and others typically done by females, even when there is no clear reason for it?  I personally think most firefighters are men because most firefighters are men, so I'm anxious to do my part to break the stereotypes in the next generation so there is greater balance across all professions.  This is an especially sensitive topic for me since I am a teacher (and currently a SAHM) and my husband is a scientist, and I worry that our family structure itself is perpetuating gender stereotypes.

Is anyone else out there struggling with the same questions?  I thought I was at least a couple years away from this discussion so I've been totally caught off guard.

Tags: gender (all tags)

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  • I can't answer all of your questions, (0 / 0)

    but I can remember the shocked feeling I had when my oldest voiced an opinion that was independent of my input.  They will do that...try not to let it throw you too much.

    In the end, all you can do is explain.  Honestly, when your son is a man, will it make any difference whether he grew up literally from birth with an unquestioning mindset?  Won't it be just as acceptable if he reaches adulthood with the right attitudes because you patiently explained certain things over and over?

    • I actually think it does make a difference (0 / 0)

      I think there are so many things that are ingrained in our heads even though we know they're wrong, and we have to work really hard to overcome them.  For example, the famous riddle of the father and son who are in a car accident, the father dies, and the son is rushed to the emergency room where the doctor says "I can't operate on this boy -- he's my son."  How many of us fell for that the first time we heard it?  (Interestingly, when I told this to my middle school students, their reaction was: "Duh, it's his mom."  Shows how much has changed in a generation with more female doctors, especially pediatricians.)

      I guess I feel like if my son is exposed early on to ideas of both genders in all different roles, he'll grow up to be much more open minded.  Discussion obviously is important but I also feel like I should try to shield him from stereotypes while he is so young.

      • Good luck in the shielding department. (0 / 0)

        I don't know that its possible to completely do so.  As your son grows older, he is going to be exposed to ideas that you might not agree with...I'm not sure how we can keep this from happening.  We don't live in an ideal world, so I suppose I had just as soon my children become proficient in forming their ideas early on.  Very quickly I learned that while I was the primary influence, I certainly wasn't going to be the only influence.

        • I know it's short-lived (0 / 0)

          I definitely realize I can't shield him forever.  He's going to preschool in the fall and I'm sure that will introduce him to lots of different ideas (which is mostly a good thing).  I guess I was just shocked at how easily he could pick up a stereotype from a seemingly-safe form of media. This experience has definitely been good preparation for him having ideas that come from other sources.  

        • I agree (0 / 0)

          My DD came home from preschool telling me only boys can do y and girls x, that blue is a boy color and pink is a girl color, that people w/long hair are girls, only boys can marry girls, etc. There is no shield strong enough to stem the tide. We talk about it with her, gently correct/guide her, use non sexist language, etc. and hope for the best! I'm a feminist w/a Masters degree in Women's Studies and have a girly girly girly girl who LOVES princess happy endings and gravitates toward very sterotypical gender roles. I now say to myself, 'this too shall pass' and, again, hope for the best.

          Good luck, Treena!

  • my thoughts (0 / 0)

    i do not think there is a way to prevent them from experiencing stereotypes in a world so filled with them.

    i agree that constant discussion will be what balances those things in the end.

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

    by lorin on Mon May 14, 2007 at 11:42:45 AM PDT

  • Are the firefighters in your family all men? (0 / 0)

    I ask because my kids went through a time when they thought all lawyers were women because all the lawyers they knew -- me and two of my best friends -- were women. So that might be why your son thought firefighters were men -- if all the ones he knows are men.

    I think all you can do is keep talking about men and women and different professions. He'll get it.

    • They are all men... (0 / 0)

      but they live far away and he doesn't have regular contact with any of them, so I don't think that's what he's basing his opinion on.  In fact, they're all men who think that women shouldn't be firefighters, and one uncle told this to my brownie troop when he came to lecture on fire safety.  I still haven't forgiven him.  He'll defend that stance when I talk to him about it, and then go on to complain about the one woman he works with who went and got pregnant and how it's caused so much trouble for all the men.  

    • Small samples (0 / 0)

      There was a time when I thought that all daddies had beards and all grandpas were clean-shaven.  Eventually my sample size exceeded six and I realized that wasn't a rule.  But I can still remember the strange feeling the first time I met a dad with no beard.

  • At 2.5, I wouldn't worry (0 / 0)

    He's still figuring so much out, that if he lights upon a less than enlightened theory for awhile, I don't think it's too bad.  I'll bet it won't last.  A few years ago, one of my co-workers' 10-year-old daughter was visiting the office.  I was making small talk with her and asked which sports she played.  She gave me a withering look and said, "Sports are for boys."  I felt really sorry for her, but I know she got that attitude from her mother, my co-worker.  She completely bought into gender stereotypes.  She could not comprehend why I wouldn't change my name after marriage, but thought nothing of changing hers each time she got married (she was on #2 or #3 when I knew her).  Your son will definitely change his thinking, but at 10, I wonder if that little girl will ever change hers.

    • What is with sports-themed boys' clothes? (0 / 0)

      I really had no idea sports were a boy thing until I had a son and saw all the sports-themed boys clothes.  I grew up playing sports and never thought it was just for boys.  Maybe because I was born post-Title IX?  

      Anyway, it's really sad that any girl is being told that, especially at age 10.

      • You aren't kidding (0 / 0)

        I hate it, especially with team sports.  DH was a football jock in high school, but thankfully gave it up after graduation.  We don't watch professional team sports, and don't like clothes for DS covered in footballs, basketballs, and baseballs.  We are more inclined to appreciate & participate in individual sports like running, biking, swimming, etc.  I've done pretty well telling people we don't like sports-themed things, and with finding other kinds of clothes for DS.  I don't mind trucks, dinos, or fishing, but I will draw the line at team sports.

    • your comment (0 / 0)

      about the 10 year old visiting the office reminded me of when my niece was about 8 and visited the police station on a field trip. She saw a man in a long sleeved,white, button-down shirt and tie and asked him if he was a doctor. He was really puzzled but her dad is a doctor and that's what he wears to work, so.....

      they get some of their ideas from the most obscure places, it's almost impossible to keep stereotypes out of their heads. I think the best we can hope for is to counter them with our values and opinions every chance we get.

  • You could drive yourself nuts (0 / 0)

    trying to shield him from gender stereotypes and purposely counting your pronouns and such. Everything about a society is just "in the air" - it's not just formal media, books and TV, but the people you know and how they live - every last one of them. And that includes all of us who are SAHM with husbands who work - ain't no way around that giant stereotype, which is way too complicated for a 2 year old to get the nuances of how this happens.

    Plus, kids go through a normal developmental phase where they are very very attached to gender stereotypes - they are learning and rehearsing the gender roles as they see them in their world. No amount of explicit teaching will change that phase, but it will pass and then your values will take hold.

    One example of this is your son wearing pink and insisting he's a girl. If I had to take a wild guess, he probably thinks he must be a girl because he wears pink, because girls wear pink, not boys.

    I guess I'm trying to say, try not to worry too much. Your values and lifestyle will matter most in the end.

    RachelD

    • I agree (0 / 0)

      I think your values and lifestyles are the most important influence.  I think shielding the child from stereotypes is a losing battle, especially as they get older.  You have a lot of control when they are young.  But when they get to school, have playdates, and start spending time with other kids, they'll be forming their own opinions.  Sure, your values will be part of how your child forms his opinion.  So, hopefully some of what you've instilled while he's young will stick as he gets older.  

      My son liked pink too when he was young.  But now that he's 7, he wouldn't be caught dead in anything pink.  He'd probably hear about it from his peers.  That sort of pressure has an enormous influence.  

  • I don't think the problem is stereotypes (0 / 0)

    My son is just starting to outgrow the phase where he was a very rigid thinker.  This phase started at 2.5  It was so bad that he couldn' accept that there were different ways to get home from visiting Nana's office and he would get very upset if I took a different route home.  He's three now and is just getting over this.  Expect some rigid thinking fo a little while.

  • Good luck with your experiment (0 / 0)

    We're very gender neutral and Ilia still comes home saying crap we've never said.  Of course, she has some "backward" stereotypes.  In her world:  

    • Mommies fix things and work in the yard, daddies cook and wash dishes.
    • Only girls (and our friend's 13 year old son) play sports except for basketball, which sometimes boys can play.  
    • Girls can marry whoever they want, but boys can only marry girls and other boys with beards (we have a lot of lesbian couple friends, and the few gay couple friends we have are all with men with beards).  
    • Only girls can be astronauts unless they're old men in black and white (this is a new one)
    • Boys can be princesses (we also have a lot of trangender friends).

    This is all just based on what she sees.  She thinks women can do anything.  Most of our female friends are scientists, writers, lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc.  She thinks that all men sit at home, because most of our guy friends don't have jobs or if they do, they work from home most of the time.

  • Prefrontal cortex (0 / 0)

    My sons participated in a research study yesterday that was measuring how children's eye movements influence learning.  They were looking at a computer screen to finish patterns as their eye movements around the screen were tracked.  As part of the follow-up I was told by one of the researchers that typically children who are age 3 (the age of my younger son) cannot look at something in two different ways at the same time.  Thus, they often will say things like "You can't be a daddy AND a firefighter" because they aren't able to categorize things in two different ways.  This depends on the development of the prefrontal cortex of the brain.

    So, I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about it since very young children have pretty rigid thinking and classification systems.  I understand though why it bugged you; it would bug me too!

    • This might be what's going on (0 / 0)

      I could see how he's just confused about someone being a woman and a firefighter, although he didn't seem confused about someone being a man and a firefighter.  He definitely picked out the single woman in the picture of eight firefighters as the one who didn't belong.  Now we look at the picture and identify the man firefighters and the woman firefighter.  Sadly, there's only one woman...

      I know he's still figuring out gender in general so it will be an interesting process.

  • Find a real life example (0 / 0)

    Concrete examples are helpful.  At the farmer's market I pointed to the women selling vegetables and called them "farmers".  My then-3yo daughter said women couldn't be farmers!  So we went up and introduced ourselves to one and asked about farming.  Since then, farmers can be male or female.

    I remember when my 5 year old daughter played "doctor" with her 2 year old brother and told him he had to be the doctor because he was a boy, and she would be the nurse.  Yikes!  Of course, she had always had male doctors and female nurses.  We talked about how many doctors are women, including my OB/GYN and her dentist.  It wasn't too hard to convince her.

    For now I mix up pronouns so that firefighters are sometimes 'he' and sometimes 'she'.  Most importantly, though I call them all firefighters instead of firemen.  Same goes for police officers, mail carriers, servers, and flight attendents.  

    Oh, and we read from "Free To Be You and Me" from time to time, lol.

    • The internet is great for this (0 / 0)

      A google images search of women firefighters found us lots of great pictures.  I agree that real life examples are very important, and it's also important to mix up pronouns when we speak about different professions.

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