Mother Talkers

Atheists Raising Children

Tue Apr 24, 2007 at 01:16:52 PM PDT

My 2.5 year old son hasn't yet hit the "Why?" phase, and we're probably still a few years away from the BIG questions, but my husband and I have been trying to decide what to do about religion.  Luckily, we share the same religious beliefs.  Neither of us believe in anything supernatural.  He was raised Jewish, I was raised Christian, but neither of our families were especially religious.  We both had horrendous religious education experiences, probably because what we were learning about was not consistent with what we learned at home.

I'm hoping some of you will be able to tell me about your own experiences.  I'm especially interested to hear from people who were raised by nonreligious parents, or those who are raising their kids without religion (especially if your kids are older).

I'll spell out what I see as our options here, and I'm very interested to hear what others think is the best choice.

  1. Raise our kids with a traditional religion (probably reform Judaism)

This would be much like the experience my husband I grew up with -- attending a church/temple and going through the religious education bit.  The main advantage to this is it gives our kids exposure to religion and allows them to make a decision for themselves.  The disadvantage is it is not consistent with our beliefs and, based on our experiences, they probably wouldn't like it and I would feel awful forcing them to go to religious school to learn something I didn't believe in.  (I've pretty much ruled this option out, but thought it was worth mentioning.)

  1. Raise our kids within a questioning religion

We live near Unitarian-Universalist and Humanistic Judaism congregations, which don't necessarily require a belief in anything supernatural.  They have very open curriculums and teach more about culture and respect for other religions.  This would provide the greater community of a congregation, which my husband and I don't feel we need, but maybe would be beneficial to our kids.  It also gives them a space in their life for religion so they don't feel like they're missing out on anything.  The disadvantage is that religious education would be a pretty big commitment, and I'm not sure I'd want to have kids enrolled in something on weekends.

  1. Do nothing

This is basically what we've been doing so far.  We celebrate holidays in a totally secular way because they're fun, but there is no religion in our lives whatsoever.  I do worry that my kids won't know how to answer the question "What religion are you?" and that they won't have any real experience with religion.  If we did this, we'd make an effort to expose them to religious beliefs of others around them so they'd at least have some background.

  1. Do nothing unless kids are interested

This is the same as #3, but allows for more flexibility in the future if our kids do express an interest in joining some sort of religious group.  Having the whole family join a congregation just because one kid is kind of curious isn't necessarily practical either, but maybe we could "shop around" at a later date if it does seem like something that our kids want/need in their lives.

Please share your opinions and experiences!

Tags: religion (all tags)

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  • We do #3 (0 / 0)

    I was raised as nothing - secular Christian I guess to the extent that we celebrated Christmas by having a tree and presents, and sometimes got an Easter basket.  My husband was raised Catholic but always knew he didn't believe it.

    We are doing basically what I was raised with.  We celebrate Christmas just for fun, but never go to church.  When my son asks questions I tell him what some other people believe, and then what we believe and why.

    The "What religion are you" question doesn't bother me, so I guess I'm not sure why it would bother my kids.  We live in a college town where a lot of people are not religious so we don't stick out.  The only issue we have run into, I guess, is that my son asks questions like "Why can't WE celebrate Hannukkah like .... does?" and things like that.  No big deal.

    I don't think we're going to do #4 because a) my husband has had enough of religion to last him the rest of his life - he never wants to go again, and b) I would feel like a hypocrite attending services when I didn't believe in anything they were saying.  Quaker might be the only possibility for me, but I don't believe in any kind of higher power at all so I really wouldn't feel comfortable attending any services regularly.

    • How do your kids respond to the question (0 / 0)

      of what religion they are?  I feel like most secular Christians can just say Christian, but since we're a secular interfaith family, that's a little more confusing.  

      • I tell my DD (0 / 0)

        that Mommy and Daddy don't believe in a god. She asks why not and I explain that just as people come in all different shapes, sizes, and colors, people have different things they believe in. Some believe in a god, some don't. She accepts that and says that she believes in mermaids even though her best friend doesn't- she's 5 so I'm not sure how much longer that will be enough.

      • when my son was younger (0 / 0)

        maybe  8 or 9, he used to proudly announce that he was half Jewish and half "spiritual."  One friend of his -- so competitive at that age! -- defensively announced that he was "one-eighth spiritual."  Everybody just wants to fit in!

        • Yes, fitting in (0 / 0)

          that's an issue for us. We don't want our kids to just accept the version of god and religion that is prevalent in these parts in an effort to fit in. I have NEVER EVER considered going to a church, even UU, until we moved from the West Coast to the Midwest. I think my kids need a framework in which to think about and discuss, and hopefully debate theological issues. I don't want them indoctrinated and I don't want them to turn to religion since my DH and I shun it. It sort of reminds me of the sex talk issue in that you want to give them information that they can handle, don't want them to get bad information from peers, etc.

          There has to be a middle ground, I'm just not sure what it is as I am an atheist to the nth degree!

          • Geography is important (0 / 0)

            It seems like religion is so different in different areas of the country.  Luckily, we live in an area where there is a lot of religious diversity and also a lot of non-religious people, so I think that will make it easier if we choose not to raise kids with religion.

          • I do think that people go to (0 / 0)

            church for all sorts of reasons, including fitting in, and I don't see anything wrong with it.  (But I also don't see anything wrong with indulging a child's wish for the "right" shoe or shirt -- to a limited extent -- because I think fitting in is so intensely important during certain times in childhood.)  My own DS is pretty sensitive to what other people are doing/saying and although he has always resisted team sports while everyone around him participated, and he now resists church while lots of kids are doing it, if he wanted to do anything to "be like" others I would probably support him, while also discussing what I saw as its function in his life.  Long messy way to say if he wanted to go to church to fit in, we'd have ongoing conversations about why.  Teaching self-awareness is important.

      • "We're not religious" (0 / 0)

        That's what I say anyway.  I don't think my kids have been asked that yet, they are only 3 and 6.5.

        • That's a good answer (0 / 0)

          It seems obvious, but that had never occurred to me as an answer.  When people ask me, I just say "nothing," but I thought that might be confusing to kids.  Telling them we're just not religious seems better.  Thanks!

  • Who/What is god? (0 / 0)

    I feel the same way you do.  We are sending our 2.8 year old twins to the Jewish Community Center for preschool this fall because it is a great program and the options are very limited here in SF.  So what I need to know is very specific:  how to answer the question who/what is god?  

    I think this is complicated by the fact that I affirmatively do NOT want to indoctrinate or inculcate in my children a feeling of faith, but I also don't want them to repeat something that might offend someone else.  It's causing me to reexamine all of those childhood traditions like Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy etc., because a friend of mine (lapsed Mormon) recently pointed out to me that these are all subtle ways of teaching children to believe in the supernatural.

    I look forward to seeing what others have to say about this.

    • Funny (0 / 0)

      It's causing me to reexamine all of those childhood traditions like Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy etc., because a friend of mine (lapsed Mormon) recently pointed out to me that these are all subtle ways of teaching children to believe in the supernatural

      We laugh because we don't want our kids believing in a god, but damnit, they WILL believe in Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, etc! My fundie neighbors are aghast over our attitude. Seriously, I do think when they are old enough to know the truth about said supernatural critters, it will be a good way to talk about all of life's mythologies from a god to Zeus to leprechauns to Santa Claus.

      • Santa Claus! (0 / 0)

        Absolutely, tooth fairy, bunny all of them.  What a source of sheer delight for children, I can't imagine childhood without them ( ok not SC if you are non christian).  Kids outgrow them and for goodness sakes don't believe forever.  Geez, i even created more of them like...traffic fairies!  Driving my daughter to school I'd ask her to talk to the traffic fairies so we wouldn't be late.  It was a hoot, because eventually the traffic would break and we'd all thank the traffic fairies.  The other ritual we had was the dream fairies.  Every night i would brush her face and head with a brush of fairy dust( sparkling pink cosmetic powder in a jar with ribbon) and chant fairy dust fairy dust bring me sweet dreams. Ahh the memories of it and then each morning we'd go through her dreams if she remembered...and record them.  This is stuff of childhood!
    • what I thought was a good answer.... (0 / 0)

      Our priest was asked the "who is god?" question very pointedly by my three year old Muslim godson (long story there...) at my son's christening. He told him first that god was whatever his parents told him it was (trying to weasel out?), and then when he was pressed for an answer (those three year olds are a pain!), said "god is all the good things that you can think of. God was there when everything was made. He was there when the trees were made, and when your mommy was made, and when your dog was made. Whenever you feel like you really love something, that's god."

      For the record, I was raised without religion. I sought it out myself when I was a teenager. My beliefs are roughly Unitarian these days, and my husband is a lapsed catholic. We baptised our kids because it will help them get into a good, cheap private school later on. And it made everyone happy. Neither one of us believe in the catholic religion, but we both feel like we'd like our kids to have some grounding in religion...and if nothing else, religion is a powerful cultural construct. I'd like them to know about the bible and christianity the same as I'd like them to know about Shakespeare and Hemingway. You lose a lot if you don't have those basic social and cultural references. At least, I felt that I lost a lot of it as a child.

      • oh yes... (0 / 0)

        And the only reason that we don't go to a Unitarian church is because there isn't one here!!

        • How about (0 / 0)

          "god is a set of rules some people follow to learn how to be nice to one another"

          I'm market testing the message for 3 yr olds-- is it sufficiently neutral and respectful of others who do believe while still operating at the right level of understanding for a smart 3 yr old?  

          • But, (0 / 0)

            my DD thinks god is a person - I don't think at 5 she would grasp god as a rule...just my 2 cents...

          • we stay away from the rule (0 / 0)

            enforcement aspect in our home, and focus on the "love" aspect.  When DS desperately wanted a god to believe in, I told him I believe it's "the still small voice" within each of us, and love.  You know god is with you when your chest is warm and expansive, and you feel generous and accepting.

            I specifically taught that god does not watch over us to catch our wrongdoing.  With a perfectionistic child, that's the last thing I needed!

            DS doesn't want to go to church or Sunday school.  We've taken him a few times, to various congregations, and he's bored and long-suffering.  Kids at his school go to what seems like a cool "youth group" at a liberal Episcopalian church that I wouldn't mind him joining, but he hates that idea, even though he likes the kids.  

            He's exposed to other people's beliefs, by us and by other people, and we've encouraged him to be open-minded and inquisitive. He tells me has a positive association with "god."  I'm sure, like all of us, he'll work out the specifics as he goes along.

  • We don't do anything. (0 / 0)

    And I don't have a problem with it.  My own beliefs are probably best described as close Deism...but we follow no particular practice.

    My kids have never seemed to need an organized religion.  We have allowed them to do things like attend Bible School at my mother-in-law's Methodist Church or attend occasional services of friend.  They understand the premise of Christianity and I've shared my own beliefs with them as well as explained what the beliefs of others involve in a hopefully non-judgemental way.   If any of my children developed the need for further involvement, I would probably steer them towards the local UU congregation.

    My kids are older...four are over 18.  We've never had a problem with establishing  an ethical, moral behavior code.  Our standards are actually quite high. I firmly believe that in the end, we must find our own spiritual path and I'm not sure that loading kids down with too much baggage doesn't hinder rather than help them with this as they become adults.

    • Good to hear from a mom of older kids (0 / 0)

      I guess my concern with doing no religion is that kids will be very intrigued by it, but it sounds like you've found a nice balance of exposing them to other religions without indoctrinating them.

      I have no concerns about raising kids without religion in terms of ethics and morals.  I've never really seen the connection, other than people who raise with religion can say "God wants to be a good person" whereas otherwise it's a little more complex (but the reasoning is much deeper).

  • pretty informal (0 / 0)

    I tried taking my kids to church for a while, but the only thing they were learning is that God is boring. That is not a very positive message, so I stopped taking them. I do talk to them about God if they ask, and I explain the religious background to holidays. I'm not entirely settled in my own beliefs, but I do think there is a basic human need to connect with something spiritual. I guess I'm aiming for awareness, which could grow into something more active down the line if they express interest.

    They get religion in school (it's part of the Chilean curriculum), but they can choose to switch to ethics in fourth grade, which I think is a great option.

  • #2 could work (0 / 0)

    I'm a pretty faithful Lutheran (luckily I've found an extremely liberal church), and I wish to raise DS the same way.  DH does not share my beliefs, but he is cool with letting me raise DS Lutheran because it means more to me than it does to him.

    I've been surprised how many of my non-religious friends wanted to have some sort of faith/religion/church experiences once they had kids, and almost all of them chose UU.  They seem to feel very happy & comfortable there.  I don't know a lot about it, but they all say it's a welcoming community without a lot of "do this or else" theology.  It seems like a good way to have the supportive basis of a church, with exposure to a lot of cultures & religions, which could help your kids make their own decisions later.

    • UU does seem like a good fit (0 / 0)

      I just don't know if I can commit to spending such a large portion of our weekend on something that my husband and I aren't really interested in and don't feel we need in our lives.  I guess I'm just not sure if what our kids would get out of it would be worth it.

  • totally biased response (0 / 0)

    I was raised a "conservative" judaism and was totally fed up with it by the time I was a teenager. I was a feminist from an early age and had NO tolerance for the God as "HE" ugh., In my late 20s and early 30s, I found progressive Judaism in Reconstructionst Judaism. Now I practice somewhere between Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism -- two "types" of Judaism that are definitely on the liberal/progressive/left. If you don't think of Judaism as a questioning religion, I'd suggest checking out  the Reform or Reconstructionist synagogues/communities where you live. It's hard to get a good understanding just by attending a service or event. Talk to the people who belong there and  the rabbi and cantor. Be upfront about your beliefs. If your husband hasn't been to a synagogue in a long, long time he might be surprised. Interfaith families, atheists, etc are encouraged, actually. It's all about change and the questions -- for adults as well as children. In both types, traditions and rituals are not taken for granted as something "commanded by God so we must do it" There is, tho, a lot of discussion on the relevance of these traditions and rituals today and how they can be modernized for women, GBLT, interfaith families, etc.  

    For one thing, Reconstructionist Judaism has removed all "supernantural" references to God in prayer books and education. The emphasis is on the power of a higher being in everything -- rather than some "supreme being out there" It is a good blend of cultural, historical, relgious aspects of Judaism. .

    In Reform Judaism there's a real empahasis on how our spritucal beliefs translate into making the world a better place. Reform Jew are very involved in a lot of social justice projects -- from Darfur to anti-theocracy in the US.

    You might be surprised to find that many folks in these types of communities don't believe in God the dogmatic, unthinking/unconscious way I was raised.

    • Similar to what we're doing (0 / 0)

      I was going to post something very similar.

      I was brought up in Reform Judaism and my DH was brought up with no religion, for the most part.  When my 15yo was little, I felt drawn to give her the same sense of community and spirituality that I grew up with.  Fortunately, both in Pittsburgh and here in NY we've found Reform congregations that I am comfortable in, and that welcome whatever participation my DH wants to do.

      I like the ritual, the tie to history, and (as you said) the emphasis on social action.

      What I've said to my kids is the stories in the Bible are allegories - meant to teach a lesson.  I don't believe they came from G-D, but they're still useful lessons.  My 7yo hasn't asked directly about G-d yet, but I know my 15yo knows we don't believe in a literal G-d.

    • Thanks for the biased response! (0 / 0)

      It's obviously an issue where everyone is biased, and I'm eager to hear lots of different opinions.  I've looked a little into Reconstructionism, but haven't revisited it a while, so maybe I'll take another look.  I'm more comfortable raising our kids culturally Jewish than culturally Christian (which UU is more like), even though I'm the non-Jewish spouse.  I guess I feel like raising them Jewish is a way to separate them from the superficial secular Christianity in our country (as well as the extremist Christians).  And, from marrying a Jew, I have major guilt about my role in the future of the Jewish people and feel an obligation to preserve the culture.

      • again, ITA (0 / 0)

        I am also the non-Jewish spouse, although my DH doesn't really self-identify.  We did ignore Easter this year, but it's very hard for me to ignore Christmas.

        When I was pregnant I really felt like I wanted to explore the notion of being connected to a larger community.  Religious communities seem to provide resources for the entire lifecycle that are not duplicated anywhere else.  I also believe that people need ritual in their lives, and that rituals are a good thing.

        On the other hand, I have become so fed up in the last year with organized religion and it's role in fostering violence in the world and discord in our family.  The issue of us declining to inculcate a belief in god in our children has caused a real rift with the Christian parts of my DH's family.

        • Thankfully we have no family pressure (0 / 0)

          It makes things a lot easier.  I thought my husband's grandparents, who are observant Jews, might pressure us to raise our kids Jewish and was surprised they never mentioned it.  Then I realized that since I'm not Jewish, in their eyes the kids aren't Jewish either (unless they converted), so it hasn't come up at all.  I'm also grateful that we have a wide range of religious observance within our families so our kids will be able to learn about Catholicism, Judaism, etc., through family members.

          • defining jewishness (0 / 0)

            The old way was to see intermarriage as a death. the sociological studies show though that the reality is a little different. And, that's changed in the Reform and Reconstructionist way of thinking about Judaism. In Reform Judaism, your children are Jewish with 1 Jewish parent. In Recon, there is less concern too about whether both parents are Jewish.

  • Option 2 (0 / 0)

    Option 4 is interesting, but probably won't happen, at least until way later.

    Option 3 is totally viable too.

    We've gone with Option 2 ourselves (UU).  We are not atheists (I guess we are agnostic). So far, it's been good.  My one rec if you go the UU route is to take a long time to get to know the church yourself, without your child, to figure out if it is something that is really going to work for you and your family long term.

    Check out not just the 'religion' part of it, but the actual congregation, services, other programs, the ministers.  Make sure you really like it there, make sure this is really where you want to be.  Your child is really young, so I wouldn't even worry about getting him into it until he is 5 or so.

    As far as not wanting to enroll in the Religious Ed on the weekends, then UUism would be hard to work without the Sunday component.  Sunday is the biggest day, where ideally you would go to the service while your child goes to the religious ed and then you can all chit chat with the folks afterwards, etc.  But this is definitely a valid concern, and one you should really consider before you join one.

    I'm going through a bit of a rough time personally with my choice of UUism lately, (I'm just not feeling it some days), and I wish I hadn't rushed my whole family into it, so I could work this out on my own first.  

    As an atheist however, you will feel right at home there and be among many friends for sure  : )

    • We're definitely not rushing (0 / 0)

      My oldest is only 2.5, so we're starting to think about this now so we have time to figure out what we like before we need to start religious education.  I think we would find a lot of like-minded people though UU.

    • I totally get that... (0 / 0)

      rushing into it.  I went to my first getting to know UU meeting and joined right after.  At the time, I was also looking into Nichiren Buddhism, but couldn't commit to chanting 2x a day.  There's a lot I still love about that religion and I still think about going back to it.

      DH doesn't go to the UU church with us, but I started going and dragging my kids.  Some Sundays, it's a lot of work and I don't feel like making the effort.  Plus, I live 25 minutes away from the church.  I find that when I don't teach(I teach the preschool class w/4 other volunteers and we rotate leading and assisting), I often blow off going.  When I do make the effort, I'm glad once I get there, KWIM?  

      • Parallel (0 / 0)

        1p1p, I think we are living parallel lives in the UU sense.

        I too joined right away.  My DH doesn't go, but that is usually a logistical thing, since he watches the baby while me and my oldest go.  

        On Sundays, it feels like a lot of work, and like you,  my church is 25 minutes away which I know contributes to my apathy at times.

        And when I make the effort, I am glad I went too.  But it takes effort.  Lots of it.

        I am also starting to really realize that joining the UU church doesn't answer all the questions, particularly since it is a creedless religion.  In other words, you really have to make time to 'find your own path'.  Which is hard when you are a mom and have a million other things going on.  

        • Wow... no kidding (0 / 0)

          Parallel is right!  Though...my DH doesn't go because he works so much and is often home late on Saturday nights.  Plus, I just don't think he's down with it.  He doesn't feel the need for spirituality like I do.

          I agree w/you about not making time to find your own path.  Plus, because I've been teaching part of the time, I miss the service on those Sundays.  Although it's been very rewarding to teach the preschoolers, my spiritual needs aren't really being met on those Sundays.  I'm on the fence as to whether or not I'll volunteer again next year.  Madeline will be in the church preschool starting in the fall.  So, I'll be driving there twice a week for that... plus Sundays.  That's 3x a week... that may be more than I can handle.

          • Yep (0 / 0)

            Yep, me too!

            I'm the helping parent in the Pre-K class and my son has gotten used to having me there, so I rarely get to the service myself.

            I was hoping that he would go to his class and Mommy would go chill in service for an hour.  But it hasn't worked out that way yet most weeks.  I'm going to start over again in the fall with him going on his own and me going to more services.

  • How about UU *without* the church? (0 / 0)

    The Church of the Larger Fellowship was formed to serve the needs of isolated UUs, but has many members who could attend a local church, but for whatever reason, choose not to.  CLF offers excellent religious education materials to its members.

    You can join (for free) for a trial period of about three months and receive the Quest newsletter, have access to Religious Education materials for your family, including "Between Sundays", borrow materials from the CLF loan library, among other things.

    You can find more information at the CLF website at http://clf.uua.org/

  • Why not just raise them with what you believe? (0 / 0)

    I think it's perfectly fine to raise your kids with your beliefs. When they ask questions, you can explain that you don't believe in God, but when they get older they can make that decision for themselves. If they want to explore different religions at some point, support it. I think that no matter what, it's not good to be disappointed by what they choose to believe in as adults. I was raised anti-Christian, so when I grew up and began to feel like my beliefs aligned a lot with protestant Christianity, my mom was very offensive about it. It was upsetting, because it really was none of her business, it's something I have always been very private about. Just being open to your kids will be all they need.

    • Agree (0 / 0)

      It sounds to me like you feel like you should take your kids to church, more for social reasons than anything else, but just don't want to.

      I'm obviously biased (!!) having grown up and continuing to live in a completely nonreligious household, but I don't think you have to do it if you don't want to.

      • Me or Treena? (0 / 0)

        Actually I don't see a reason to go to church if you don't believe in God. I get that people enjoy the sense of community, but there are a lot of ways to get that in life. It sounds like there are churches out there that may not dwell on God, but are more about love and talking about how to live a good life. But as far as attending a church/synagogue that does talk about God, then telling the kids that you don't really think there IS a God...it seems like it would just make the kids wonder what the point was.

  • The only drawback (0 / 0)

    in being raised completely without religion was that my siblings and I really didn't know that more people were religious than not.

    It was a rude awakening to find that we were actually in the minority as adults. I think we would all categorize ourselves as agnostics now, and I admit it would be a pleasant surprise to have an afterlife when we die (what a good joke on us to have our very non-religious dad waiting for us beyond the pearly gates, ready to laugh with us again, "Guess we were wrong! Ha!").

    My point is that not having a religion doesn't leave a deficit in one's life. Instead, you focus on other things like nature and family, being neighborly and secular traditions, but a lack of religion could lead to an unconscious insensitivity toward the religious, which I had to learn as an adult.

  • Study:Religion is Good for Kids (0 / 0)

    Here is the link, fresh from yahoo

    http://news.yahoo.com/...

    I thought this would aid in the discussion.  I have a 16 year old daughter.  Now, one of her hallmark traits is emphathy and a keen sense of fairness and social justice.  She demonstrated it by first grade.  I did not raise her with any religious background.  I think we are Number 3 on your chart.  Church twice a year, Easter and Christmas.

    However, it is my biggest regret not to have  raised dd in a religious tradition.  Part of this is cultural for me in that I was raised Catholic and would have liked her to have shared in the ritual.  The other discussion on MT around this was interesting, but in essence I am a cafeteria Catholic.  If I was married to a Jew I would have considered raising children in the Jewish religion.

    Why religion?  I believe it gives kids a way to think about spirituality and had I chosen to raise dd as a Catholic, I would have tempered the Catholic doctrine with my own views.  

    The study raises some very interesting points.  One of the biggest is the community religion provides and the network of support.  There is a HUGE gap in community particularly when kids hit teen years.  The community of parents is nearly non existent and support for parents from parents is not often see...at least where I live.

    I am scrambling to catch up now.  We have attended several services over last 18 months.  DH and I  have spoken to her at length about religion as her view has been badly shaped by my ex MIL's right wing fundamentalist beliefs.  My mother and step father moved in with us recently and they are fairly anti religion. DD has two vocal extremes in her life. Therefore my husband and I are talking to her quite a bit about spirituality and exposing her to more religious services.  We attended a Seder last month AND a Catholic Easter service. We  volunteer at Glide Memorial and sometimes drop into their Sunday services.

    Good luck with your decision.  

    • I agree with this principle (0 / 0)

      Some method of addressing spirituality, even if it isn't organized religion,  makes for a more well rounded person, IMHO. Whatever you decide, from Pagan to Atheist, Judaism to Baptist, even explaining why you aren't religious/spiritual maybe - some kind of exposure or education about spirituality is important. My thinking, when we were looking into this, was that I wanted my boys to have a "reference point." I was actually considering Catholicism, however briefly, so that they'd have an understanding of at least one religion.

      I was raised Roman Catholic (with some Greek Catholic thrown in) and my DH was raised Episcopal (so often referred to as "Catholic Lite." (All the Catholic/ritual, but only half the guilt). So, similar experiences. But both of us completely lapsed upon going to college/leaving our parental home. I attended Catholic mass on major holidays if I was at home with my family for them.

      We joined the UU church here in Peoria more looking for the community than anything. We knew few people, and the boys were old enough to be asking about God and Jesus. I suggested UU as a friend of our from our last town (Tallahassee) had mentioned she was raised UU. We checked out the national and local websites and it looked good. I am tremendously happy there - it's pretty much everything I was looking for, even if I didn't realize I needed it, as far as spirituality and community goes. My husband is not as into it as I am, and doesn't attend as regularly, but the neat thing about UUism is that that's okay.   He's also rather shy and it takes him longer to warm up to people/communities. I have made some very good friends in this church. My boys really like it. We officially became members just this month, and were introduced formally at service last Sunday and got pins with the UU chalice on them. My 3 year old has worn it on his shirt every day since.

      I like that my boys are learning the community aspect, acceptance and compassion. Three things pretty important to UU.

      But, all this said, Reform/Reconstruction Judaism sounds pretty great too.

      Here's a quiz that could, in a rather objective way, help inform your decision. I posted it in a diary a while ago, and most here liked it.

      http://www.beliefnet.com/...

      I had to laugh when I took it. #1 for me as a match was UU, and a couple forms of Buddhism, Liberal Quaker and something else filled out the top 5. Whereas the religion I was raised in, Roman Catholicism, took the absolute last spot (#27). haven't told my parents yet, hee hee!

      "the "well-informed citizenry" envisioned by our framers has degenerated into a "well-amused audience." Tad Daley, Alternet - interview w/ Al Gore 05/22/07

      by cgiselle12 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 07:48:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • That's a great quiz (0 / 0)

        I ended up right where I am, so I was happy about that!  It's a bit more liberal than what I was raised, but that's OK because my parents have gotten more liberal as they've gotten older as well.

      • 100% secular humanist (0 / 0)

        That's me. Then, 99% UU, and 91% liberal quaker. Not really a surprise. Thanks for the quiz link.

      • Ranked in quiz... (0 / 0)

        100% UU AND Roman Catholic at the very bottom of the list..pretty funny.  Goes to show how strongly tied I am to ritual, family history and my ability to tune out what I don't like.  The quiz was interesting...but didn't quite get to what for me has been important. How I feel not think.  What I need to get to the meditative state of spirtitual.  Buddhism came up 5 which is another place i "feel" comfortable.  Neo Pagan come up second...investigating now!  My brother has joined the UU church...keeps telling me I should go with him...hmmm

        thanks for sharing the quiz!

      • My scores (0 / 0)

        I'm 100% UU and the next was humanist (94%) followed by liberal Quaker.  Where are the liberal Quakers?  Mmmmm.

        • actually (0 / 0)

          i was wrong about my second ranking ...it was liberal quakers, then neo pagan and then new age!  perhaps this is why i have been so extremely conflicted all my darn life!  i am simply not in harmony with feeling and brain.  neo pagan makes sense as i have been very interested in native american spirituality.  i simply loved chief seattle's speech when he turned over land to the US government.  i think i wrong headedly posted the entire speech once on a MT comment..early on in my participation.  suprised you all didn't yell at me :)
        • It had to think a long time (0 / 0)

          I think my answers confused it.  I'm a practicing Catholic but I aligned 100% with Orthodox Quaker.  I'll have to talk this over with my Quaker friend.  Roman Catholicism was 5th on my list.  The other choices in between were mainline to liberal protestant, mainline to conservative protestant, and orthodox Catholic.

          Interesting stuff.

      • Interesting.. (0 / 0)

        Neo-Pagan first, then New Age, then UU.  I think the Buddhist ones would've ranked higher, but according to beliefnet, they are against elective abortion.  Nichiren Buddhism isn't one of the choices... I really identify with that form of Buddhism more so than Zen.  If it were on there, I bet that would've been in my top 3.

    • Study could be true but... (0 / 0)

      there is no way to create a true experiment to show the effects of religion net of other effects.

      It seems to me that the kind of family who cares enough about religion to attend and discuss it frequently is likely to be different in a number of ways from families who don't.

      In other words, it's not necessarily religion alone that is providing the kind of supports or behaviors that end you up in that framework.  They're looking at kids' behaviors - for example, it could well be that religious families tend to be more strict or structured than nonreligious families, so you end up seeing a behavioral effect.

      Anyway, I tend to agree that the effects are mostly positive, but for me and my family personally, I can't pretend to believe something that I think is bunk.

      • I was thinking the same thing (0 / 0)

        It seems like there are too many other variables to have this study be meaningful.  As my husband and I often say in our house, "correlation or causation?"  (Yeah, we're geeks, but we hate seeing data misinterpreted.)

        It also doesn't differentiate between different kinds of religion.  Most religious people practice religion in a way I would never consider, so I'm not sure whether this study is relevant to my family.

    • Community leads to more grounded kids (0 / 0)

      I guess this is the issue that's been causing me to wonder whether we should pursue membership in an open-minded religious group.  I was a middle school teacher, and it seemed to me that the kids who were the most stable had multiple communities looking out for them.  In some cases this was extended family, or a really intense extra curricular activity.  I think I'm just looking for ways to make sure my kids grow up with lots of supports in place around them, especially since we don't live near our families.  

      • i agree.. (0 / 0)

        and my own experience in watching teens is that the more positive communities your kid and the family can be attached to the better.  
      • It Takes A Village to Raise a Child (0 / 0)

        Did Hillary co-opted this phrase? Or did she come up with it for that book? Anyone know who/where it comes from? Old adage maybe?

        Anyway, I believe this is true. I feel that the really strong ties I have with my extended family gave me a very solid upbringing and made me the good person I am today. My DH didn't have much of a community of any kind growing up, and he has some issues in relationships of all kinds that are a little negative, which I think are a result of the lack of community. I mean, he's no ax murderer, but he's generally known as a difficult person.

        I think my boys are benefitting greatly from their communities - my family, their schools, our church. They're both good kids really.

        "the "well-informed citizenry" envisioned by our framers has degenerated into a "well-amused audience." Tad Daley, Alternet - interview w/ Al Gore 05/22/07

        by cgiselle12 on Wed Apr 25, 2007 at 02:09:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • african? (0 / 0)

          I think hilary got the phrase from an african community, but not sure.

          You would be surprised by how many people vehemently object to the notion of "it takes a village to raise a child".  i started my own blog nearly 2 years ago around this notion and the backlash i rec'vd was eye opening. at first i thought it was a backlash attached to hilary, but found not neccesarily so.  many parents feel, no it takes only ME to raise a child and I don't want any interference. i think lonespark mentioned that religion is not only place to find community. extended family and a tight knit neighborhood could provide the same.  i agree.  but with family now far flung and neighborhoods isolating, community building is more and more difficult.  and then there is a hositility to the notion of it takes a village. i frankly find it distressing and dispiriting

          • we don't have any problem with community (0 / 0)

            My husband and I have friends from work.  We are friends with the neighbors, particularly those with kids a similar age to ours, and our daughter is in the Girl Scouts.  The troop leader is very flexible about religion.  Our town and neighboring towns have recreation centers that offer non-religious classes and activities.  We've gotten to know a lot of parents from school and we volunteer sometimes.  And, my DH is a Dem precinct chair.  

            Our greatest joy, though, is to have a day at home with no activities, so we actually have to work a little to keep from being TOO involved with the community.

  • #3 (0 / 0)

    We do #3.  My kids are at an age where they appear to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunney and the Tooth Fairy, so I'm not going to get too bothered if they want to believe in God and Guardian Angels.  I think I played with those ideas at their age.  It's a family tradition, so we have fun with it.  I tell them what I believe, tell them they'll have to make their own decisions.  My daughter likes to say Grace and an occasional prayer.  My husband and I will say Grace with them.  We talk about what we are thankful for.  It's a good thing for children to think about, regardless of whether you really believe there's someone out there to thank.

    What my husband and I are very concerned about is that we do NOT want to leave our children vulnerable to having someone tell them what to believe, what to do, and what not to do, because it is "God's Word".  So, we avoid too much exposure to any particular group's version of the "Word".

    I saw my sister-in-law, who was dying of cancer, very comforted by the belief that death was not a complete ending.  I believe that it is, but if my kids were in that situation, and such a belief brought comfort, then I would support them in such a belief if they were inclined.  What does it really matter at that point?   I am inclined not to totally cut them off from that option, if they need it one day.

    My husband and I sometimes just get on the subject and talk in front of the kids.  We celebrate Christmas, and talk about how it evolved from earlier Pagan rituals.  We laugh about the Easter Bunny that lays eggs, and the extreme unlikelihood of someone actually rising from the dead, and the fact that holy texts are written by people.  We talk about how Jesus Christ probably did exist, and that much that was written about Jesus may not be entirely correct, and missing a great deal, and that powerful people controlled what was written and what was kept in the Bible for their own very human reasons.  We talk about how every culture has seasonal festivals, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter, and we talk about what ours are, and what other countries or religions have instead.  We talk about how some people believe in many Gods, and some people believe in spirits in rock and water and tree.  We talk about how people used to believe that thunder was caused by a God pounding on his anvil.  
    We let them watch Harry Potter and Kiki's Delivery Service and the Fairly OddParents.  In general, we let God and angels blend in with Santa, fairies, witches, giants, trolls and other supernatural folk.  I see no reason to rush things.  They are getting a complete education, and they'll work it out.

  • My perspective--raise without religion (0 / 0)

    This diary is a few days old now, but I thought I'd still give my 2 cents! I was raised without any religious tradition, and I'm proud to say I turned out just fine. I always had a strong understanding of right and wrong, kindness and love, etc.

    That said, I would recommend a couple things to parents in this situation. First, even if you don't adopt a certain tradition, try to be open to your child's spiritual curiousity and development. My father was scarred by a fire-and-brimstone upbringing, and he was so negative about anything religious that when I actually developed a spirtual life as an adult I kept it as my dirty little secret for a few years.

    Also, my husband grew up in a religious community (Quakers), and I am quite envious of that community. Can you find a substitute for that kind of community? I had a fine childhood, but I do wish I had something like that, which is why we plan on making a concerted effort to raise our children (we're expecting our first this fall) in the Quaker community.

    Good luck! :)

  • We are agnostic parents (0 / 0)

    Who prefer to marvel at the mystery of life rather than have everyting wrapped up in a perfect package with a perfect bow.

    That being said, we have raised our kids (15 and 20) to be independent thinkers and to see nature as the one true perfect thing on our planet.

    One of my daughter's biggest rebellions was to go to an Evangelical Christian church.  It was extremely hard to remain neutral and let my daughter explore something that I consider to be a negative, closed minded approach to life.

    She went for a few weeks, (yes, I even drove her-anti-Bush bumper stickers and all) and after she realized that I would support her spititual journey as much as other curiosities she found no reason to go any more.

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