Mother Talkers

Overparenting

Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:43:24 AM PDT

Katie Allison Granju, author of Attachment Parenting, has an article on Babble.com about the dangers of overparenting.

Granju describes her current parenting, post-baby, as "benign neglect":

These days, I let my youngest kid enjoy his growing collection of pocket knives, and I expect my children to ride their scooters out of my eyesight in our urban neighborhood. And I frequently tell my children that since I already completed elementary school, and have no intention of repeating the work, they will need to do their homework without me hovering nearby.

What are some of us doing wrong according to Granju:

We're losing sleep over why little Jasper isn't yet out of diapers....We're not-so-secretly frantic over why little Ella from playgroup can already tie her shoes when our own five-year-old Ruby can't yet do the same.

A concrete example of overparenting according to Granju; a first-time mother worrying about her baby learning how to use a spoon:

As the very cute baby played with her food, I noticed she was managing to get quite a bit of her mashed peas into her rosebud mouth with her small spoon.

"Wow, she's really getting the hang of that spoon," I commented with a smile.

"Yes," her mother replied, "I've been working really hard with her on it all week. It's kept me pretty busy."

Working really hard on teaching her to use a spoon? All week? Kept her pretty busy?

Ok, so why is Granju so cool and so many of us so stressed out?

  • ::

What does Granju know that many of us don't?

I can say honestly that I don't obsess about the minutiae of my parenting, and as I get ready to give birth to child number four with husband number two, fifteen years after becoming a mother for the first time at age twenty-three, I am increasingly finding that this puts me in a distinct minority.

AH HA!  She's on her fourth child!  Of course, she is more relaxed.  First of all, she's done all this stuff three times already.  I'll bet you a dollar that she was just as concerned about her first baby learning how to use a spoon as the mother in her example.

I'm not as obsessed with the daily details regarding my second baby so far as I was with my first either.  But that's just because I already stressed about the details enough for ten children the first time around.  I haven't become cooler or more sophisticated or more laidback.  And I imagine that as the baby years wind down, my children's personalities will diverge even more and each will manage to throw me their own unique curveballs that will keep me on my toes.

Granju does make a good point though in all this ruckus about the details of overparenting:

Parents have a huge impact on how their children turn out, and that's precisely why we need to take a hard look at the obsessive, controlling, perfectionistic parenting culture we're living in. In fact, facilitating children's ability to function independently, to figure things out, and to grow into themselves without excessive interference is in itself an essential task of parenting.

There is a happy medium in here somewhere, I just know it.....

Tags: overparenting, Katie Allison Granju, helicopter parents (all tags)

Permalink | 45 comments

  • Over/under (0 / 0)

    I think it cuts both ways.  I tend to be more concerned about the other end of the spectrum.  Right now I am worried about a couple of children of friends who (partly due to various personal crises, partly due to differing parenting approach) are not really on the ball right now as far as parenting is concerned.  Neglect would be too harsh a word to use, but there is definitely less oversight than I feel comfortable with.  I'm debating whether and/or how much to try to intervene.

    Katherine, mom to two boys 7/00 and 1/04

    by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:53:23 AM PDT

  • Well, you are much more relaxed (0 / 0)

    after a few children.  I've said before that when it started becoming clear that my older kids were turning out OK and didn't seem likely to become ax-murderers, everything became easier.  I had done OK...didn't have anything to prove any longer.

    I can be a controlling person by nature.  So, when I had my first children, I had to make a very conscious decision to try to limit these tendencies.  Not easy at first...honestly, I was astonished the first time one of my kids came up with an independent thought!  Anyway, to put myself in the proper frame of mind, very early on, I repeated to myself, over and over again, that our job as parents is to raise children who will be able to take care of themselves as adults.  Flowing from that thought, we can't expect them to become independent overnight...it is a process.  

    Anyway, I think there is a difference between controlling and overly anxious.  Never have been an "anxious" person..."anxious" people don't tend to have seven kids.  Maybe the key is to try to understand where your instincts are coming from and address it from that angle.  People behave the way they do for many, many different reasons.

    And oddly enough, my younger children have not been nearly as accident prone as my older kids were...and everytime my older kids managed to get hurt, they did so with  me (or a school teacher) looking directly on.

  • i love this sentence! (0 / 0)

    "In fact, facilitating children's ability to function independently, to figure things out, and to grow into themselves without excessive interference is in itself an essential task of parenting."

    that says it!  safety?  first and foremost parental responsibility and it doesn't conflict with above.  as examples:

    1. physical safety. teach that so they can be independent. gotta teach it not cocoon them.
    1. teaching them safety around harmful media that will challenge their ability to become self assured and confident adults.  tv, music and internet. limit, discuss, coach and teach.
    1. education around drugs, alcohol and safe sex.  can't be independent if you abuse them.

    the list goes on.  but as i say, that sentence above really sums it up, imho. and you can do that with child number #1 as well as child #4.  

    stressing over the spoon? well, putting the spoon in front of the baby is probably the extent to which i'd go.  the rest is likely attritbuted to competitiveness, which is unfortunate.

  • I thought I was overparenting (0 / 0)

    When I saw the title, I thought it was going to be chastising people like me.  I used to work in a career where I need to think about complex stuff a lot, and I approach parenting the same way.  Before making any sort of big decision (when to potty train, what kind of first shoes to buy, etc.) I totally obsess over it and do lots of reading and get a lot of different opinions.  I've read dozens of parenting books trying to find the "style" that is right for me.  I realize this is unnecessarily obsessive and at one point tried to stop it, but then found that I'm happier if my "job" requires this kind of thinking so now I just flow with it.

    But that's not what this author meant by overparenting, and I feel better after reading her article.  When my first was born I joked that the second would be totally neglected because we were so relaxed about stuff with the first.  He grew up eating food off the floor in a non-sterilized house, climbed to the top of the jungle gym as soon as he was able, and at 2.5 spends a good deal of the day playing independently.  We passed on all those music and gymanstics classes that were supposed to enrich his existence as a baby and let him control how he spends much of his playtime.  We've never had any major illnesses or injuries, and he's been developing perfectly.

    I wonder if all those who overparent are like me in that they need something to occupy their minds so that their job feels more challenging and interesting to them.  If you're used to completing major projects and working towards specific goals, I can see why you'd be tempted to spend a week working on using a spoon.  (We simply handed our son a spoon and used them in front of him, and he picked it up with no trouble.)

    I also wonder if whether you overparent or not really makes a difference in the long run.  Obviously kids will learn to use spoons regardless of whether you teach them, but is the teaching really stressing kids out or harmless?  Anyone with older kids have thoughts on this?

    mom to two boys, born 10/04 and 10/06

    by Treena on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 10:55:59 AM PDT

    • i never equated (0 / 0)


      over parenting with reading up and doing lots of research. if so, then by that definition, i have overparented.  i read every child development and pregnancy book i could get my hands on.  i still actively educate myself and always have during all my dd's stages. why?  hey, i'm interested, i find it fascinating and i do this with EVERYTHING!  perhaps it works for me as i am very decisive.  once i gather the information i make a decision, it doesn't confuse me at all. and if something new comes up, i don't get freaked.  have a look and see if an adjustment is imo, justified.  as i say, i do this with nearly everything. health, retirement, politics, real estate...my job

      so sounds like we are similar :) does your family  make fun of you?  mine does :) in my gut, i do think pushing a kid to use a spoon is deserving of a little introspection of motivation. now i read to my child and sang to her and followed her developmental stages with eagerness.  shoot, i was fascinated, i still am.  but it is different, i think,
      than worrying that your child isn't using her spoon yet and spending a week teaching her.  seems better to wait and take her lead when she is more interested.

      • I'm not alone! (0 / 0)

        "once i gather the information i make a decision, it doesn't confuse me at all. and if something new comes up, i don't get freaked."

        I'm a lot like this, too. Knowing full well that it will probably be at least a year before we trade in our car for another, I have researched every one of those that fits our needs. I know which cars we will test drive, what features we'll go for and which we won't, and even the colors I like best in each model. I did the same thing with our last car, and we test drove it and bought it the same day without any fear of a bad choice because I knew it was the right one. We also plan to sell our house and move next year, and so I have a spreadsheet (this REALLY tickled my husband) with each town we're considering and will be cross-referencing housing costs, quality of schools, type of parks and rec, distance to my in-laws, etc. I got a lot of teasing about this from DH, but when I pointed out we're talking about spending a huge amount of money and 30 years in this property I think he got the point.

        As for childrearing, I have found myself to be surprisingly low-key. I do tend to be strict about a few things, like sleeping and eating habits, but other than that I'm not too concerned about what DD does "on time." When she turned 1, I completely relaxed about that. We do whatever sounds good for the day and leave it at that.

        Mother of Avery 02/04 and Tobias 08/07

        by jenna on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:35:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • You could describe me to a tee (0 / 0)

          with your last paragraph, Jenna! I research and read up on tons of things (I stay away from the parenting mags and books, because I have you ladies, and y'alls are smarter, more level-headed and non-guilt-inducing than about 95% of parenting books!), but then once I have the framework, I try not to sweat the details. I heart Excel, btw, but it's an obsession DH nurtures (he's an accountant by training!).

          I know that I'm not the perfect parent, but my philosophy is that it's my job to love Jess and try to create the loving, safe and supportive environment where she can work (play), explore and learn, and then stand back and let her have at it!

        • I do spreadsheets too! (0 / 0)

          This is really reassuring.  I thought I was only the one.  parentalunit1, my family doesn't make fun of me because I rarely admit this stuff.  My most recent spreadsheet was comparing different preschools.  I doubt many people could tell you the cost per hour of the local preschool options.  My favorite spreadsheet was the "how much money will I make if I go back to work" one.  It was very complex with all sorts of different equations for taxes, daycare, commuting expenses, etc. including options for part-time work.  And I also bought a car in a day after researching for well over a year.

          Funny that those of us who can be so anal about some things are low key with the parenting stuff.  My rep in various parenting circles is being the mom who's read all the books, but is super-relaxed.  Maybe there's something about having done lots of research that makes us much more confident in our parenting decisions, so we're actually less stressed about the day to day stuff.

          mom to two boys, born 10/04 and 10/06

          by Treena on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:56:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • awright! (0 / 0)

            we got us a hardcore, excel sheet makin' MT group! Sweet!

            • Ha! (0 / 0)

              My DH isn't an accountant, but his degree is in accounting, so he finds it pretty funny that his "creative" wife is into Excel. There's just something soothing about organzing all the junk in my head onto a spreadsheet, and often once it's done I don't think much about it anymore! I have friends on all ends of the spectrum re: childrearing methods, and I don't think any of us should be doing anything different. For me, once we hit the 1-year mark and DD was just perfect, I felt like I could chill out and go with the flow. It will be interesting to see how different it is with #2, if I am even half as concerned about the same things.

              Now that school is about to end, we'll pick up one activity to keep the week interesting. Not sure about Avery, but I can't handle an added activity when school is in session! So, I'm looking forward to finding something fun for the summer, like a dance or sports class she can get into.

              Mother of Avery 02/04 and Tobias 08/07

              by jenna on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 05:12:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • oh you guys! (0 / 0)

                i don't do spreadsheets...i do the research.  hubby does spreadsheets. but i do get quite a bit of teasing within family unit.  as in oh no, she's researched something again!  drives dh crazy as he is very result oriented, i think that is an aries trait.  i much rather gather all the info, particularly around buying decisions, and then buy.  dh is much more just get it done and out of the way.

                i agree too that all that gathering  of info makes you( or me ) relaxed and confident in decisions...especially parenting.  i rarely second guess my decision. the few times it has happened..ugh didn't like it, drove me a tad crazy until i resolved.  one other thing that may be true for all of you... i have great trust in my gut reaction.  i have nearly always regretted a decision when i went against my gut.

                • yup (0 / 0)

                  totally in synch with you on gut reactions. Drives DH up a wall (Piscean trait? who knows). There have been so many times where I've just felt that something's just not right (not necessarily to do with DD), told him so, and he's totally gotten annoyed, saying it's not rational, not right to base decisions on gut/emotion. Nearly 100% of the time, things turn out the way I say, and I'm having to bite my tongue not to say "I told you so!"

                  • You bite your tongue? (0 / 0)

                    Oh, not I! I do the "I told you so" dance each and every time. Rational smational - mother knows best and DH is slowly starting to realize this (it's only been 5 years since DD was born.)

                    Mom of two - Sally (4-02) and Sam (8-04). Sam has a central I.V. line & a g-tube.

                    by GiGi on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 08:36:49 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          • I did one (0 / 0)

            this past weekend myself on elementary schools.

            Katherine, mom to two boys 7/00 and 1/04

            by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:49:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • I do spreadsheets too (0 / 0)

          But don't admit it often for fear of snickering.  

          To get pg with #1 I did a lot of charting of basal body temps, so after 6 months when I finally did get pregnant, I knew exactly WHEN it happened (I ovulated day 29 of my cycle, not on the typical day 14).  But the midwives insisted on using my LMP to calculate my EDD, which made the AFP numbers come back 'wrong'.  We were sent in for genetic counseling and I brought my Excel spreadsheets with me.  Upon seeing them and hearing my argument, the counselor cluck clucked, "Seems like someone has a little too much time on her hands".

          I finally did get them to recalculate the AFP based on "my" dates and everything turned out fine.  

          • very interesting use of (0 / 0)

            Excel! I salute you. But what's up with that bloody conselor? You would've thought that having all the information to hand would be a positive for a genetic counselor - you know, because information is important and stuff for... science... or so I'm told?! ;-)

            I didn't have to go through charting to get pregnant; what do LMP, EDD and AFP stand for?

            • Brilliant (0 / 0)

              I love that so many of us use Excel for such a variety of things! That counselor was rude...seems like someone's job was made a lot easier because of their informed client.

              LMP is Last Menstrual Period, EDD is Estimated Due Date, but I hav eno clue on AFP.

              Mother of Avery 02/04 and Tobias 08/07

              by jenna on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 09:42:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • Alphafetoprotein (0 / 0)

                in combination with estriol measurements, it shows the likelihood of aneuploidies such as Down syndrome.

                It's a "poor man's" amniocentesis.  I chose it because I didn't want to risk miscarriage, and the same thing happened to me as to the OP: they didn't believe my dates and the numbers came back all screwed up--until they corrected for actual conception date.

          • That's so offensive! (0 / 0)

            I can't believe that counselor said that!

      • Yes! (0 / 0)

        I am a research queen.  I do it as a hobby!  Seriously, I come up with at least one thing each and every day that I do "research" on.  

        I most certainly read books and talk to others in regards to children's behavior, developement, etc.  However, early on, I learned to rely less and less on books...you see, kids just aren't reading those same books!  Seriously, children aren't products....in fact, I can be a little offended by the rigidity of some childrearing and educational approaches for just this reason...now, I still read about this stuff, probably so I can have an excuse to work myself up into a lather every now and then.

        • I've read lots of books (0 / 0)

          My favorite books are the ones that really advocate following your child's lead.  So my favorite book about eating is Child of Mine and other books by Ellyn Satter, and my favorite book about discipline (if you can call it that) is How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk by Adele Farber.

          mom to two boys, born 10/04 and 10/06

          by Treena on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 05:02:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • How about... (0 / 0)

            Is there one about how to convince your child she'll feel BETTER if she would just take a poop once in a while? Oy. She doesn't believe me.

            Mother of Avery 02/04 and Tobias 08/07

            by jenna on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 05:13:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    • I don't think (0 / 0)

      spending a lot of time on spoons hurts the kid, as long as they aren't overtired, emotionally abused, or prevented from free play.  I'm guessing it stresses a parent, though.

  • funny (0 / 0)

    I got into a convo yesterday with a dad who asked about my son.  I told him he was camping in Mexico with half of his classmates, a teacher, and some parents, and the guy totally blanched.  "But, Mexico is so dangerous!"  I confessed that I was nervous on the kids' first night out, because I didn't know where they would be camping.  Since then, I have not been particularly worried (especially since getting access to some beautiful photos from paida, so I could visualize exactly where they were for their first few days; and getting email updates that they're safe and having a blast).  This guy was looking at me like I was completely crazy.  He was trying to be nice -- "I'm sure they're having a good time!" -- but he also said, "I would NEVER let my son do that."

    I don't know his son very well, but he seems like a great, well-adjusted kid.  I don't think he's doing it "wrong," or we're doing it "right."  I do sometimes worry that my son's childhood is much more sheltered than mine, and that he will need experiences to help him test the waters, make a few mistakes, and think for himself.  Part of that is how we live (driving everywhere, mostly), and part of it is how different we are as people; he's pretty cautious and I was more curious about risks.  

    Mama to one son, born 12/93.

    by mamacita on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 11:05:49 AM PDT

    • risk adverse :) (0 / 0)

      don't understand sky diving, climbing mount everest, bungee jumping..that kinda stuff.  but i sent my dd to mexico when she was in 8th grade for a 2 week spanish class trip. it was a fabulous experience for her and one i was totally comfortable with. her school had been doing it for years with same spanish teacher and everyone raved about it. the teacher explained in detail every aspect of where they'd be going and with whom. totally worth it :)
  • my first thought (0 / 0)

    Damn - I'm actually doing something right!

    My dh gets on me for not being careful enough sometimes, but our oldest broke his wrist when I was at a meeting (under daddy's watch) - and our youngest could probably manage to injure himself even if he were in a bubble.

    DH and I have generally let our two boys cue us on when they are ready for this or that. Both of them, 3 and 6, are still in pull ups at night. But the older one sleeps like the freakin' dead. We've tried to wake him up but it just isn't happening. I'm actually thinking they'll get out of nighttime pull ups about the same time. C'est la vie. Everyone's different.

    And the happy medium is not a medium, but the tone set by your child.

    Because, I get a lot of comments - honest to god - about how well behaved and sweet my boys are. A lot. I think it's because we have always respected their opinion and let them in on the choices when possible.

    And we limit ourselves to one activity at a time (ie sports, art classes, whatever).

    "the "well-informed citizenry" envisioned by our framers has degenerated into a "well-amused audience." Tad Daley, Alternet - interview w/ Al Gore 05/22/07

    by cgiselle12 on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 11:35:55 AM PDT

  • Book Recommendation (0 / 0)

    http://www.michaelungar.ca/

    Too Safe for Their Own Good - it talks about how we're not letting our kids learn for themselves.  

    I'm a total slacker mom - although even I do too much for my kids because I'm a sahm.  I think they'd be better off if I wasn't around to make their lunches and wash all their clothes.  It's good for kids to figure stuff out for themselves and we don't help them when we help too much.  

    Mother of one girl(3/98)and two boys(5/00) & (5/03) and general pain in the arse.

    by lonestar canuck on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 11:44:42 AM PDT

  • Is it overprotective? (0 / 0)

    I kind of think she may be taking a jab at the competitive parenting we see out there.

    On using spoons, for whatever reason my 3 year old took a long time to get the hang of it.  He's fine now though.  My 17 month old had it down before he turned one.  Same gene pool.  They all do things on their own time.

    Mommy to Joey (12/03), Joshie (11/05) and Mary Rose (1/08)

    by music teacher on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 02:25:17 PM PDT

  • complicated for moms of only children (0 / 0)

    I wonder if there's an unconscious feeling of needing to hover over a child if you know he's going to be your only one. If you lose him to an accident, you will be childless. If you have more than one child, the loss of a child would be just as horrible, but you would have to pull yourself together and soldier on for your other kids.

    Sorry about injecting such a maudlin scenerio into this discussion. I just wanted to suggest that this factor may play in to some situations where a mother is overly anal about her child's safety.

    • as a mother of one... (0 / 0)

      perhaps.  but i don't know how that would be processed.  wouldn't it mean that you'd be more relaxed because in your mind you'd say oh, i can let go a bit because i have the other and i'd have to pull it together?  even unconsciously i don't think that works.

      now i do think you are probably more relaxed with number 2, that makes sense to me because you have the experience.

      safety is a big issue for me.  but i remember being very conscious of it before being a mother with my nephews and kids i babysat for.  i suspect it comes from internalizing a family event.  my cousin died from an overdose of medication at age 2.  he got into my grandmother's heart medication and despite calling the doc and being assured he'd be fine...he died.  this happened before my own mother became a mother herself.  she wasn't nervous, but she paid very close attention to us before age 3.  i did too.  

      i suppose i know at some deep level that bad things can happen.  i don't think i am anal, but i perhaps am vigilant.

      • could be (0 / 0)

        When my mom was a young mother herself, about 22 or 23, she drove by a family panicking on their front lawn. She ran back and their toddler was choking. She managed to clear the baby's throat of peanuts by the time the ambulance came, so it all turned out ok.

        That single event must have haunted her, because all while I was growing up she was paranoid that I would choke. I had to be reprimanded to eat my snacks sitting fully upright, etc. When my daughter started eating food, my mom would get really concerned with bigger bites and I could just see her alarm rise up when Avery would gag on something. Now I am passing on the tradition! Whenever Avery is eating and I catch her laying down while chewing, I am stern about her sitting upright. Thanks to some toddler back in the 70's, my own kid now has to be hounded about eating properly.

        Mother of Avery 02/04 and Tobias 08/07

        by jenna on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 05:19:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • not a bad thing (0 / 0)

          so long as you're not totally stressing over the thing. It would be natural for your mom to have been haunted - thank goodness she was a.) concerned enough to stop and b.) able to help!

          I'm always on Jess's case to eat sitting up, too, if it's any consolation.

        • OMG..same! (0 / 0)

          when i was a toddler my mother gave me sliced apples.  apparently i nearly choked to death on the skin. totally freaked my mother. i am same around food. if someone even begins to look as though they are having difficulty i'm the first up doing the heimlich thing.  the things we carry forward, eh.
        • This happened in my family (0 / 0)

          Mymother nearly died choking on a grape but her cousin slapped her on the back (pre-Heimlich) and saved her.  Then when I was a baby, I almost died choking and she saved me.  Now this is the one area where I am as obnoxious and paranoid as my heliicopter friends.  I still cut grapes and other things for my 4½ y.o.

  • Exasperated by two of my friends (0 / 0)

    who make me feel positively derelict in my parental duties.  I refuse to:

    1. Mediate every little tug of war over a toy
    1. Model each and every response for my child before he can open his mouth
    1. Intervene when said child walks up the slide instead of sliding down it
    1. Intervene when my child takes a toy car inside a tent at the library instead of playing on the mat printed with a map of Busytown
    1. Cover my child in stinking sunscreen every time he leaves the house
    1. Drill him in spelling at age two
    1. Let him slop lumpy paint all over nice cotton pillowcases and give them as Christmas gifts
    1. Mind 7 children playing within a fenced in playground by literally running around and silencing the least note of discord.

    And so on.  You should have seen the look I got when I said I'd get excited at a playground if and only if I saw blood.

    I do not enjoy playgroups because helicopter parents are uptight and boring.  Having a conversation with one is kind of like the setup in Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron, in which people with above-average IQs have to wear headsets that disrupt unusually effective thought with random blasts of loud noise.  One is lucky to have a real conversation at all.

     

    • You just need to find the right group (0 / 0)

      There are plenty of us who are quite happy to neglect our kids and discuss anything but children and their development during playgroup....why the hell would I go to playgroup to discuss the kids?  

      Hang in there - there's probably a cool group of moms looking for you right now.  

      Mother of one girl(3/98)and two boys(5/00) & (5/03) and general pain in the arse.

      by lonestar canuck on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 10:08:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • I'm with you on everything (0 / 0)

      except the sunscreen. But we live in Australia, where no sunscreen and 30 minutes outside will yield ya a tasty sunburn.

      I'm still searching for a good playgroup as well - wine definitely a plus.

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