Mother Talkers

Problem with Authority?

Sun Mar 04, 2007 at 06:57:10 PM PDT

Last night I had a unique experience within the scope of 52 years on earth.  My dh and I along with two other couples planned to attend our local high school NCS playoff boys basketall game which was hosted at Cal State Hayward.  

We got our kids situated with rides on school sponsored buses enabling more students to attend the game.  We then rode together to Hayward, ate dinner along the way, and proceed to the game.

It was clear as we got close to  campus that there were dozens of other cars headed in the same direction.  When we parked and got to the gym the line to buy tickets snaked for quite a distance from the building and up flights of stairs.  We took our place in line and waited patiently.  At some point as the time approached for the game to begin, a uniformed police officer came out of the building yelling for the crowd's attention saying that there were no seats left, the venue had been oversold and they were closing and locking the doors, accepting no more people into the building, even if a person held a ticket.

The line quickly disassembled and became a large mass of people rapidly asking questions and showing  disbelief that this was happening.   I felt a decided shift in the whole scene as the police took on a very militant air and insisted the people "MOVE OUT OF THEIR WAY" and "MOVE BACK" creating several dozen feet of space between the building, the police, and us.  The crowd included a cross section of ages and races with one intent in mind and that was to spectate the night's event and cheer on their respective teams.

As time passed, lots decided to leave, assuming they were not going to gain entry.  The crowd that was left numbered around sixty.  All the while, the officers were on guard, highly tense, and combative to the crowd, regardless of age, race, or gender.  When asked if several parents and grandparents who had gotten into the building could exchange their seats with students who were locked outside, the police said absolutely not -- no one was going to be allowed entry into the building.  What?

I spoke several times to one officer whose face twitched with tension.  I could see the level of stress and his readiness to fight ME, as it was clear he perceived me to be a threat.  I asked him "why are you so combative?"  He only made eye contact for a flash and then would look away.  He said I was combative by approaching him and asking him anything at all.  That I and the other people gathered were creating the perception of threat.  He would not listen at all to my question or concern.  Aren't police officers paid public servants?  Their mission is the public good??? Isn't it?

All the while, people inside the venue were using their cell phones to alert the people locked outside that there were dozens and dozens of seats available in the gym --- rows of empty bleachers!  Consequently, the crowd of parents, students and small children continued to wait to see if eventually we could be let inside.  Most of us had travelled some distance and many of us had children attending the game who had come on the buses and were already inside.

I was AMAZED and APPAULED at the level of hostility from the police (not all, but most) at a group of people gathered to watch high school sports.  I said to him "Are you kidding me? You are the one with the gun, you're younger and bigger than I am and you consider me a threat to you?  I can't ask you a reasonable question so I understand when and if we will be allowed in the gym?  We're in the United States of America..."  He would hardly answer but when he uttered a few words, his lips were twitching and his facial muscles were jumping under his skin.  I had the thought this could in a flash go from a very benign scene, to an officer pulling a gun because of the misperception of these officers.  Wow.

Eventually as the quarters came and went, the fire marshall was summoned to assess the crowd numbers and venue capacity.  He arrived as the third quarter was in play, and reviewed the scene promptly allowing the waiting crowd to buy tickets and take seats in the many available bleacher seats.

This was surrreal on so many levels to me.  What do you think of this MTers?  Have any of you ever experienced such a scene?  My vote goes for loads more personality testing for young men, or women, who are armed and have authority to use deadly force.

I felt as if I was in a bad episode of "COPS."  Wow.  Today I fantasized about what the headlines would have been had I been arrested...I did get a good laugh about that. I must confess partly I wished I had been arrested to have seen what the fallout would have been at the absurdity of how the police handled such a situation.  It was pathetic and not just a little scary.  

It really makes me wonder, What is happening (has happened) to our country?  What say you MTers?  Does this sound like we've gone down the rabbit hole?

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  • Yes, it sounds like we've (0 / 0)

    gone down the rabbit hole!

    I think you're right that there is a higher level of hostility and tension between members of the public and law enforcement.  I'm not sure why that would be George Bush's fault, but I have no problem blaming him for it :-)  I know that I have been hassled (by other citizens, NOT by cops) for holding candlelight vigils against the war.  There's a feeling that opposing authority is wrong and dangerous, instead of liberating and important.  Has it always been this way???

    My DH has been spending time with law enforcement people lately and he has said that they scare him a little because they are so ready to get tough -- hair-trigger ready.  Maybe everyone is feeling the effects of our permanent state of "orange alert"?

    I am glad you didn't get arrested!

  • how strange (0 / 0)

    I join Mamacita in saying thank goodness nothing incendiary happened. I couldn't imagine how awful it would have been - physically, emotionally, and on a community level - if the situation had gotten out of hand and escalated.

    I think it's worth pursuing - why were these officers so damn jumpy? Why the perception that something was going to kick off at a high school ball game? If the local police had some information that something was going on, isn't it incumbant on the police to share it with the community so that it can be resolve on a community level to prevent further scenes?

    I find the level of paranoia present in America today to be appalling - I know it's a bit rich of me to comment on it being so far away, but in talking with friends and family, it's evedent that that old Buffalo Springfield song is only more relevant than ever!

    Appropos of nothing, this story reminds me so much of why I'm so disquieted by TV series like Lost - the rampant paranoia, plotting and lack of trust fundamental to the whole thing.

    • good comments (0 / 0)

      i hadn't been thinking as much about the level of paranoia present in TV shows, but you're correct about that.  Odd how TV can often just be that slightly off-kilter and sometimes right on target reflection of ourselves.  

      i think it was a good thing that i didn't get arrested, but on the other hand, it would have given a platform to how idiotic this particular scene was.  i'm still just bowled over by the hair-trigger attitude i perceived.  scary for sure.

  • A friend of mine is on PTSD leave (0 / 0)

    from a local police dept. Counseling required. It seems to me that departments that don't have this should institute it. And that those that DO have it, should use it a lot more.
    • yes, i imagine being (0 / 0)

      a "peace officer" is a very, very stressful job, especially if the mind-set is that a group of unthreatening people is seen as highly threatening and combative.  i can't imagine how these officers would have reacted or felt if the crowd i was a part of really had been a true threat...i think it isn't far off to say there would have been a lot of blood spilled.
    • and what about (0 / 0)

      former soldiers with PTSD who join the police force when they get home?

      "You see, in this world there is one awful thing, and that is that everyone has his reasons." Jean Renoir

      by Little Miss Patriot on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 12:02:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • i have always been a (0 / 0)

    pretty consistent "rule-follower" with exception perhaps during some of my growing up years.  so, it makes me bristle a little and also makes me really wary when i feel that it is better to shut up when uniformed officers are in the mix than to be able to approach officers with civility and ask reasonable questions or raise concerns.  i guess i may be naive to think of situations as mostly benign and of little threat - although i do believe that is true in general.  our fears seem to me to be more insidious than the reality of our times, although, it appears that may truly be changing dramatically right in front of all our eyes.
    • a creeping feeling.. (0 / 0)

      thanks for sharing this experience karen, as it is a collection of small incidents like this that make you stand back and ask important questions.  what is going on?  and since when can't we expect that a simple inquiry of a police officer will be met with a civil response?  if we stop noticing these things and dismiss, we might find ourselves in a heap of very real fear of those in authority.  karen, have you thought about calling the police department and asking for an explanation?
      • yes, actually i am (0 / 0)

        mulling it over.  the whole scene was such a confusing mess that unraveling it is being done on multiple levels.  there were persons in authority inside the building including our hs principal and others who were trying to convince the NCS officials along with the Hayward authorities that there was room inside the building and to allow entry of the crowd outside.  i hope that all details will be reviewed and ways in which this event could have been better organized i also hope will be memorialized.  you remind me though to talk with dh about what we can do as individuals to speak up about what we saw and experienced.  thanks.
        • I wonder if there's another important fact (0 / 0)

          that didn't come out. Like maybe there was a threat called into the police station?

          It really makes no sense at all, and it seems to me that it's pretty important that there be a good post-mortem on what happened and what would be a better way to solve the problem, since you essentially had separated a zillion minors from their parents, potentially jeopardizing rides home and the like in addition to the obvious inconvenience and anxiety.

          I know that a lot of families have cell phones, but not everyone does, and for goodness sake, we shouldn't assume or require that everyone does.

          • you may be right. (0 / 0)

            i'm sure there will be lots of discussion on multiple levels -- both official and unofficial--regarding that night.   and i would certainly hope the confusion is avoided in the future.

            the more i think about it, the more i wonder if my assumption of police in general isn't realistic.  my dh has a very different sense of law enforcement than i do which is to say he wasn't surprised at the level of police intensity.  he is extremely wary of police in general - not to say that he feels they are inherently bad or that there aren't good people who are police - but he has had experience both in the military and in just being male which leads him to conclude differently than my experience informs me.

            my assumption in taking the police point of view is the "protect and serve" idiom, his  is "control and authority over others and anyone may be a potential threat, act accordingly."  he also has the sense that we can assume we don't have the "right" to ask questions of police and that that would be viewed as combative by the police....

            those ideas make me feel pretty insecure about law enforcement.

             

  • A bit from the police perspective (0 / 0)

    My younger brother is a police officer with over ten years of experience in a metro area.  I've ridden with him several times, but the one I remember is when he stopped someone for a routine traffic thing.  I was sitting in the police car behind the stopped vehicle.  Long story short, the driver would not get out of the vehicle or put his hands out the window.  Instead, he kept trying to reach down.  Turns out he had a sawed-off shotgun under his seat.  That's when it hit me; people would like to kill my baby brother.  They would like to kill him, leave his wife with their two little boys, because he is trying to stop them from doing something illegal that could hurt innocent people.

    Does that excuse the over-reaction at a high school basketball game?  Not really.  But I'm always aware of the fact that every day when my brother goes to work, it could be his last.  I know what that does to the family; I can only imagine what it does in my brother's mind.

    • asdf (0 / 0)

      Good for you for pointing out the other side, Cynmill. When I read Karen's initial post, my first reaction wasn't "Eff the pigs," but rather, "what's going on here?" (as I think was Karen's reaction as well, not that I speak for her!) Obviously, this particular officer was massively stressed about something - which is not a good thing, for himself, for his department and for the community. I think some further community action is necessary - not to punish this guy necessarily, but rather to unravel what's going on and figure out how to deal with it before a negative event occurs.
    • yes, as I commented above (0 / 0)

      I can't imagine nor do I underestimate the stress of law enforcement.  Partly my own naivete was at play in my reaction to the situation...and also my wish that our world wasn't so hair-trigger on so many levels which only leads to more of that same state.

      Again, I can't imagine the job of a police officer and for all of my life, especially as an adult, I have had very solid respect for their authority --- along with that though, I also believed, probably naively that, I, being a law-abiding and community supporting citizen had nothing whatever to fear from police officers.  The incident the other night has changed that mindset for me from that point forward.  I am sad that that is a fact and I'm sure a reality for many people when they consider police officers in general.  It's a sorry state both for the public and law enforcement.

    • remember the last scene of the Sopranos? (0 / 0)

      My heart was racing and my palms were sweaty, because here they were just eating and yet everything in the environment was a potential threat to keep watch on.  It must be like that for cops all the time.  

      Or like how as moms we're always "on duty", because even if we're just sitting and reading a mag, at any minute our kid could run up and need something.  Well, if you're wearing a uniform, not only are you constantly on guard like Tony, but you gotta know that if anything happens within 100 yards, everyone's going to expect you to deal with it.  And you know how we were saying that stresses us out, must be the same for them.

      "You see, in this world there is one awful thing, and that is that everyone has his reasons." Jean Renoir

      by Little Miss Patriot on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 12:05:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • When I was in HS (0 / 0)

    about 10 or 15 cars of kids went to "party", which involved going to a new subdivision which had streets but no houses and we all pulled our cars up and hung out. (Have you seen Dazed and Confused? Kinda like the party at the moon tower.)  I know, not that cool, but in our defense, this was a very mild group of kids, most of them honor students and AP students, and most of them Greek Americans (Tarpon Springs, FL) who as far as I could tell had Good Citizenship grilled into them from a young age. Not the sort of kids who would give the cops a hard time.

    The cops came and blocked us into the neighborhood, ordered us all out of our cars, and started checking IDs. I don't know what happened, but suddenly the cops were beating the CRAP out of this one kid while we all froze in horror. They slammed him into the hood of the car a couple of times (that image is burned into my mind), then he sort of bounced backward and they piled on him and beat him and kicked him. Eventually they took him away (probably to a hospital). We were all frozen. We were just kids, but if you ever wonder how people can stand around and let something like that happen, well.  You at first think there must be some reason for them doing that, and then you think, whether there was or not, if they're doing THAT to HIM, what will they do to ME? And so you stand very still and hope they don't notice you. And I guess in our case you also pretend like it didn't happen. I didn't know the boy but I don't remember any of us ever doing anything about it, telling our parents (well, we were drinking, see, so we wouldn't tell) or calling the FBI or anything.

    Very, very scary.  Made me quite afraid of the police, a feeling mitigated by a churchmember who was a cop and very sweet.  And I have to say--other than that story and one other cop who pulled me over and if we weren't in a brightly lit shopping center I think he would have tried to rape me or something, he was really twitchy-- every other cop I've run across has been nice.  In fact, when some cops smelled pot from, ahem, someone's apartment window, and busted that someone, ahem again, all they did was give us --oops!-- a lecture about how if we were going to smoke pot we needed to maintain a low profile and not attract the cops!  Took our stash and our bong, but only gave "someone" a ticket for paraphanalia, which under the circumstances was pretty nice, and made everyone else there promise to help pay for the ticket, which was also nice.  Although they did steal our stash, bastards.  

    This was before "someone" was a mom, of course, don't call CPS!  :)

    "You see, in this world there is one awful thing, and that is that everyone has his reasons." Jean Renoir

    by Little Miss Patriot on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 11:42:49 AM PDT

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