Thank you so much for sharing with us, too.

I think mother and daughter relationships are more complex, too. My son isn't a teenager, but for some reason I don't see our relationship being as complicated as my mom's and I.

I adore my mother and often begrudge the fact that she is a saint -- well, more like a martyr. She spent her entire life serving others: first, her parents, then her four children and now her mother-in-law and MIL's sister. I have never met anyone else to do this.

On the other hand, I am NOTHING like her. Growing up, I always felt that she was a doormat and let others take advantage of her. I felt that she didn't protect us from an overprotective and controlling father. She never had hobbies or passions outside of the home. To this day, I often want to shake her and ask her to please stand up for herself, to say something mean to someone else -- if this makes sense -- to live her life. My impression is that she is not happy, but too weak to do something about it. I just get so frustrated with her.

Or maybe, I am just selfish and begrudge the fact that I am incapable of being like her. If my husband tried to control me, I would get out of the relationship IMMEDIATELY. I chose to go to school and move away from my family. It doesn't mean that I don't love her and appreciate all she's done for me. But dang, mother-daughter relationships are complicated...

Lordie, I have some stories of my own. Growing up I had no idea for the longest time that my mom's insane rages were far from normal; thought I was a terrible child for minor misdeeds; had no idea many mothers are actually concerned about their children's emotional well-being. I had no idea what "panic attacks" were but I had them all the time--and stopped trying to tell my mom because she just didn't care; I was mystified that my mother, who claimed herself to have gotten married to escape her abusive older brother, could be so blind to and tolerant of my older's sister's physical, verbal, and emotional abuse; I had no idea until I had a child of my own that what I lived with was abuse.

I learned when I was 28 and had a miscarriage that my mom and sister really cared nothing at all for my feelings and trying to make them care was futile.

I thank God every day for my amazing friends who made it possible for me to trust women.

I also think time has given me a lot of perspective. I know my mom was doing her best and is not malicious at heart. My sister and I have sort of broached the subject in a roundabout way and even though she claimed the Libby defense (she didn't remember) I understand: bad situations made not-so-great people of all of us. Even though it takes a Herculean effort at times, I don't bring up the past with my family. I simply bitch about them at the lunch table with my friends the next day!

I was afraid to have a daughter for the longest time because of my own bad experience. But I realize now if I do ever have a daughter we can write our own history. I am sure I will make mistakes but they will be completely and totally different from my mom's!

I think sons are easier because men are not really introspective. Everything is taken at face value. With moms and daughters, it's all subtext.

My mom and I are just not at a point where we have a functional relationship, and like you, Karen, I had to come to the realization I was never going to get the apology I wanted from her for the way she treated me in our relationship. It wasn't anything as serious as drugs or alcohol, but there were a lot of emotional beatings.

My mom wasn't a malicious person, she was just very insecure about herself and projected that onto me. Oh, I can say that now, but when you're 13 and she's telling you you're too fat, a B in school was a groundable offense and pressure to be #1 at everything you do came pounding in around you... let's just say I wasn't so charitable in my feelings. I never felt good enough for her, and still have boughts of feeling that way. As her oldest and only daughter, I often got the brunt of her mood swings and anger. There was also a noticable preference for my brothers- one in particular, that is so obvious my husband often gets irritated by the difference in treatment. I remember fighting with her and just having her tell me I was absolutely out of my mind crazy and making everything up. There was no validation of feelings from her.

She was, and still is, an unhappy person and that makes me sad. She is brilliant but you would never know it, not because she gave up her career to be a SAHM, but because she never tried to exercise her mind once she was a mom unless it was with puzzle books or computer games. She slef-soothes with shopping, it's an every day affair to the point where she considers some of the sales clerks at the local Macy's her "friends". She's so judgemental of everyone she pushes away the few people who try to befriend her. She's a great grandma right now, but I worry about when my daughter is older. I joke that she'll be a 2018 version of a goth chick with piercings and my mother has a mini heart attack. It's my way of innoculating her with the idea before it happens to avoid unpleasantness.

Somewhere around high school, I started coping by writing letters to my future daughter- reminders of how lonely and inadequate I felt around my own mom to try and stop the cycle of emotional abuse. The one thing I want more than anything is to have an honest relationship with my daughter. When I screw up, and I will, I want to tell her I made a mistake, and not hide behind an idea that parents are always right. I know we'll fight and I know there will be rules she won't like, but if I can tell my daughter honestly how I feel, I hope she won't be searching for any apologies when she's older.

i seemingly had more issues with my father and actually didn't speak to him for several years...i think more than 5 years.  and alcohol played a role in that too.  however, years of intensive therapy and alot of hard work on my part, i overcame my issues.  today my father and i have a very lovely and loving relationship.  i am so grateful that i worked it out and reconnected with him.

my mother and i have always been close.  i am the only daughter of 4 children. however that closeness wasn't particularly healthy in retrospect.  i was too much of my mother's confidant, particularly as my parent's marriage began to fall apart.

mothers and daughters?  hmm, i don't know.  i almost think tempermant and personalities play a bigger role. my father and i are very similar in how we react emotionally. i always felt a deep connection to him, even though he drove me crazy. my mom and i are very different emotionally, yet we have similar interests. i am embarrasingly sentinmental like my father while my mother has barely a sentimental bone in her body. my dad may have driven me crazy on many occassions, particularly when he was younger yet my mother's impact was different. i think my mother has competitive issues due to her own mother's experience as an identical twin.  those issues have played out in our relationship from time to time.

my mother and step dad now live in our home.  and THIS puts everything to the test and has changed our relationship.  how much can i attribute to our relationship as mother and daughter issues versus role reversals?  i really don't know. i'd bet money that if my dad and step mom lived with me, we'd have plenty of changes in our relationship.

so my point?  i don't neccesarily think mother and daughter relationships are more complicated. i think it might be much more attributed to personalities than gender.

perhaps if i had a daughter and a son i'd feel differently.

And always interesting to learn what other women have experienced growing up.

I grew up with a controlling dad with a temper. He could "fly off the handle" about anything, or nothing, yelling at everyone, and ten minutes later act as if nothing had happened. Growing up, I could not understand why my mom would put up with him. My parents did finally separate for a year, my first year of law school, but my dad was back over at the house [where mom stayed] several nights a week. Mom finally told me that she cried a lot over his temper when they first married but came to believe that it wasn't about her, it was "just the way he was" and she would rather live with it than live without him. I still to this day am not sure why those were the only two options [like, how about tell him to treat you with respect, get counseling, whatever? All I can assume is that he was born in the Depression and he is not of the generation of men who would seek help]. I found out when my grandmother [dad's mom] was 95 that his dad [who died before I was born] was just like him. Hmm. Odd but I had never thought that he'd learned that behavior from his father.

Growing up I always vowed I would NEVER marry someone who would yell at me. I actively sought a very even tempered spouse and I have not been disappointed.

As for my mom, we get along great, and really always have. The only problem I recall is being a teenager and feeling like she should stand up for me to my dad. But I think personalities have a lot to do with things. My mom is very easy going and gets along with anyone; she is not hard-headed or stubborn. I, on the other hand, have some of my dad in me, although I do not ever yell at my husband and rarely at my kids [and I have always apologized when I did yell at them]. My daughter is more like me, hard-headed and always sure she is right, so I anticipate lots of head butting during the teen years. She will get along great with my mom, though, who is so kind and reasonable and patient.

I'm not sure if moms/daughters or moms/sons have more issues. I have had some difficulty coming to grips with my mother-in-law's need to control my husband. He doesn't see it as an issue as much as I do. I think a lot of it is her personality and a lot is that he is now their only child [having a brother who died just after birth and another brother who was profoundly retarded and died several years ago].

Geez, sorry to go on and on like that. Great topic.

thank you for sharing so deeply, Karen.  I think relationships are very dependent on the parties to them and further exacerbated by environmental issues.

Today I have a great relationship with my mother overall.  We certainly have snaggy points but they don't last longer than the call to straighten it out. My family certainly suffered from alcoholism from my mother's parents on down.  My mother openly talks about her alcoholism and its effect on our family.  Over the years, we have had many conversations clearing the air so to speak.  After many years in Alanon and time in less proximity to my mother, I have been able to sort through my own feelings and expectations for a mother I wanted, needed, dreamt about, but who did not exist.  And have come to cherish the mother I do have today.  This was not a painless process for either of us.  But today there is no baggage from the past.

My mother and sister have not made that journey together and their relationship is very strained.  In fact, they are not relating currently after my sister "took a break" that she announced would last at least one year.  I have hopes they will work it out, but i am not suffering any illusions that without real change on both parts it will work.  It's a delicate balance for me in the middle to stay out of it and refuse to comment.  yikes, its not been a very fun year in that hot seat.

I have no idea how my relationship with my children will turn out.  I know that I work hard to communicate openly, apologize as often as necessary and love them with all my heart.  I know that I make mistakes, plenty of them.  But I also know that those mistakes are also opportunities for us to improve our relationship.  

Here's an example - my husband "reacted" very loudly to the kids tearing up some packing materials for his brand new flat screen tv.  A few minutes later he sat down with them both and apologized, explaining why he was upset and how it was because he was scared of the tv being damaged in the move.  The kids were very loving in their response.  It was sweet.  And then a few minutes later my 3 yo ds came downstairs to apologize to his sister for something he had done an hour before.  We did not even know he had done something.  I attribute his apology to having received one from his father.  His mistake was an opportunity.  

I have come to believe that perfection is not possible which is good as I make lots of a parenting opportunities. I do believe that communication, understanding and acceptance of what and who that person really is goes a long way toward healing past wounds.  But both parties have to be interested in getting to that place.

Can't really comment on the Dads as I have two and it would take a book.  Although again, time and work have created good relationships today.

I attribute his apology to having received one from his father.  His mistake was an opportunity.

,

It's so true. We are our kids best example of the best way to behave, and that part of the relationship- admitting that we're not perfect, allows them to not be perfect too!

I am honored that you would share this with all of us.  Mother/daughter issues can be quite thorny...and yes, all any of us really want is to be accepted, loved and listened to by our parents.  

I can't say that I had anything terribly traumatic occur while growing up...the usual separation issues as a teenager, I suppose.  I was the oldest and the only girl, so I always felt as if there were certain expectations I was to live up to.  I love and appreciate my mother, but in many ways, we are very different people.  While she is a very independent minded woman who certainly has her way of thinking, she was always much more willing to at least give the appearance of conforming than I ever have.  Guess that is what happened to women who came into adulthood in the early 1950's.  Throughout my life, there has always been a bit of shock when I've done something she considers a bit out there....however, she will rarely mention it.  I do recall one time when I was in my mid twenties that while discussing some thing or other, all of a sudden she said "You really aren't very much like me at all."  This wasn't judgmental on her part, it was more like a light bulb had gone off in her head...after that, she know longer puzzled over why I did the things I did...guess that was her way of coming to terms with the way I lived my life in a way that didn't cause her disappointed or make her feel someway responsible.  

One way in that my mother and I are alike is in our great desire for privacy.  I feel very uncomfortable talking about things in my personal life that aren't as I would like them to be.  I hate the idea of being perceived as a "complainer".  My mother is the same way....sometimes this causes a few hurt feelings.  I live a couple of hours away from my parents, and therefore don't see them that often.  Since I've been dealing with health problems, I often will literally wish for my mother.  However, I usually have a very difficult time letting her know when I'm really doing badly.  Still doesn't stop me from complaining every now and then that "I've been so sick I couldn't get out of bed and I haven't heard a word from my mother"...as if she's supposed to read my mind, right?  Trying to get better about things like this, but old habits die very, very hard.  I think as mothers and daughters we get into these kind of patterns and its almost impossible to break through them.  I'm working on either being more honest or at least less willing to bitch about her not helping me when she isn't even aware that I might need help.

Is what made me the type of mother I am. My mother was very critical of everything I did. No matter how I excelled, it wasn't good enough for her. In fact, a couple of years ago, I actually forced her to admit that I have been "nothing but a disappointment to her" pretty much my whole life. The reason for this is, quite simply, because I didn't want to be an extension of her...I didn't want to be and do all the things that she had wanted but hadn't had the opportunity. I love my mother, because she tried very hard to make sure that I had a healthy, happy childhood. (Granted, it wasn't always happy, but she put forth the effort.) I don't doubt that she loves me, but I am pretty certain that she doesn't like me very much.

My relationship with Momma made me realize that, more than anything, I wanted my children to find in me not just a loving parent, but also someone they could look to as a friend. Someone they would want to spend time with. I try to view my girls as distinct individuals and give them the opportunities to be whatever it is they want to be. My biggest problem with my mother was the plain and simple fact that, all my life, all I ever really wanted to be was a "Mommy" and Momma feels that there is something wrong with me for being willing to "settle" for so little. The thing is, though, that I don't see it as "settling" for anything...I see it as fulfilling my life's dream. Yes, being "just a Mom" may not gain me wealth or fame, but neither of those things has ever held a whole lot of importance for me. If, at the end of my life, my daughters can say of me, "She was both my mother and my dearest friend", I think my life will have been worthwhile.

I have to say, I am so lucky.  I have such a great mom.  I think she was the original attachment parent even though she worked after I turned 2, she was always in tune with my needs, always took what I had to say seriously.  

Even after their divorce, she busted her butt, worked so hard, really made a safe and cozy home for me, somewhere I always knew I could come back to.  To this day I feel that way.  And this safe, cozy home is only a 1000 sf condo.  Proof that a home can be anywhere.

I was kind of a brat in high school and I really regret that. I think that part of the problem with mothers and daughters, especially teen daughters is PMS.  Hear me out!

Teen girls are going through all of these hormonal changes and PMS can start as early as high school.  I didn't even know it existed, therefore I took my crankiness as a sign I wasn't happy or would just act out and be a brat.  If I had only known that what I was feeling was hormonal and normal, I think it might have helped.  I still get PMS today, but now I know what it is and can manage my moods and crankiness by saying, it's just PMS, it will pass.

I do think that the mother/daughter relationship is the most complicated of all the combinations and can also be the richest.    

One of the things that I think is so great about all those ads on TV for drugs for depression and all that is that mental health is now out in the open.

Of course, there might be some overmedication going on, but overall, the fact that families don't have to suffer in silence anymore, that there is help out there, whether it is meds, or therapy or treatment centers is such progress.

I think of all the families that in the past would be ruined just by one parent with untreated depression or anxiety, perhaps turning to alcohol to mask it, creating a legacy of addiction...on and on.

It's so important that we take care of ourselves and our families in the mental health department too since we don't have to suffer in silence anymore.  I still believe there is a huge stigma regarding mental illness, but I believe it is slowly being chipped away and I hope it keeps getting chipped.

I'm the oldest & only daughter and my mom is the oldest. My mom, my grandma, & I are all very close.  I have to say I lucked out completely with great parents.  I didn't always appreciate it.  When I was a teenager, I definitely didn't want to be like my mother, no education, no job, stuck at home with kids.

But my parents set a very good example for us, particularly my mom.  She was at home because she wanted to be.  My dad has always supported everything she's done, but she didn't get a job until my youngest brother was in junior high.  My parents not only had interests outside of us & home that they persued together, but they had separate interests as well.  If they argued, I never heard it because they always presented a united front.  There was no pitting one against the other.

They made some mistakes, particularly with me.  But when I was in my 20s I realized that they always did the best they could.  They were 22 when I was born; what on earth did they know?  They've continued to surprise me.  At age 50 my dad lost the job he'd had for 25 years, and they ended up moving from the town they'd lived in all their lives to a new city.  They've done great there, and impressed me with their ability to start over.  My mom got a job three years ago caring for a woman with early on-set Alzheimer's, and she's now learning everything she can about the disease and is becoming an advocate for it in her town.  When I called my mom to tell her DS was born early, she was incoherent.  She was more upset than the news of her breast cancer two weeks earlier.  I think that's when I learned my first lesson as a mom.  In that moment, I deeply regretted every horrible, snippy thing I ever said to her!

Oddly, it was my grandfathers who both stood up to the dysfunction they saw in their families as caused by their fathers.  It was the same story, alcohol, anger, abuse.  My maternal grandpa basically cut his father out of his life after convincing his mother to leave him to avoid getting raped every Saturday night when he came home drunk.  My paternal grandpa would have little to do with his father, and told my dad once that everything he tried to do as a father was the opposite of what his dad did.  So men do have those complicated relationships, too.  My DH does, and we've talked about what healing he needs to do to make sure this doesn't filter down to DS.

My mom was barely 18 when I was born. She went from living in her tyrannical father's house to living at the poverty line with her 19 year old husband and infant daughter. They struggled together for 12 years to make it work. But, ultimately the years of verbal abuse from her parents and her undiagnosed seasonal affective disorder isolated her from us and she moved out. I often think she wanted so desperately to be "that mom" - happy, loving, physically affectionate and there were definitely glimpses of that in my childhood - but always there was some sort of backhandedness to it in order to cover her own feelings of inadequacy. I grew up thinking she just didn't like me and if we were the same age we would not be friends.

I was nearly 34 when E was born. Almost twice the age of my teen mom. Two times the life experience. Twice the education. But who did I long for and need and call out to? My mom. And she came. To my grateful surprise she answered my frightened call. She practically moved into my house. She nursed me while I nursed my baby. She coached me. She is in her early 50s now - has raised two more kids - and with patience we have put our relationship back together. There is so much I will never understand about my childhood with her, but now as an adult I am able to reframe the experience and say, "she was doing the best she knew... now she has new skills." She tells me everyday what a great mom I am. Who would have thunk it? :)

I feel very lucky that I have a warm close relationship with my mom.  I remember once in college, when I was talking to my mom on the phone, my room-mate said "it sounds like you're talking to your best friend."  Throughout my life she has modeled and encouraged a balanced perspective of life - and encouraged all three of us (my bros and me) to find our own paths in life.

When my kids were younger, she told me she was in awe of me - working full time and raising two kids.  That really floored me - it felt like a huge accomplishment to have become a mom that my mother admires!

I am determined to foster that kind of connection with my children - open, supportive communication, listening to them, respecting them as people - and so far (knock wood) I see my relationship with my daughter (15 1/2) growing into the same closeness that I have with my mom.

My son is young still (7yo), and I think in parenting him I am drawing on how my parents raised my brother - the personality similarities are funny (and scary!).  I am grateful my mom and dad can still give me perspective on parenting.

The best advice my mom gave me about being a mom was that it's like a black hole - no matter how much time and attention you give your kids, they'll always want more - so it's up to you to find the balance!

I have a good connection with my dad too - what a "dysfunctional teenager" I was - no parents to complain about! lol

I'm still working through my issues with my mother (and it's comforting to note that I'm not alone!). Unfortunately, or maybe it's fortunately...I'm doing it at a distance of 12,000 miles or so. I moved as far away as I physically could without getting in a space shuttle. What does that tell you about our relationship?

My mother and father ran away from their parents very young (she was 17, he was 21). They had me when mom was 19, living on a commune in West Virginia without electricity, running water, or heat in the winter. I've asked my mother before if she was completely insane, given that I was an intended pregnancy. She told me that it "just seemed like the thing to do at the time...living on the farm, everything was growing and fertile...it seemed like a natural progression". Then Dad started his pattern that has lasted the rest of his life. He would disappear for months at a time (the first time when I was 3 months old, during the coldest winter on record, and mom with no heat or even insulation), and suddenly reappear. No letters, phone calls, and completely indignant that anyone might be angry at him. But that's a dad issue. This is about Moms.

When I was two, Mom finally left him. In the interest of brevity, insert two sisters, an abusive step father, and general misery for the next eight years or so. Then she left the horrible man that she subjected us all to for years. Finally.

We were very poor, and mom struggled to keep my sisters and I fed and clothed. I'm still amazed that she did it. I know that it couldn't have been easy. However, I was left with the feeling that she really didn't want to be a mother, and that we were an incredible inconvenience in her life. She was unpredictable at best, and would fly into an incredible rage at tiny things (often hitting and screaming at us, calling us horrible names). Other times, things that should have gotten us into huge trouble were shrugged off like they didn't register. I spent a lot of my teenage years trying to make any kind of dent that I could in her armoured facade, and failing miserably. She left for weekends with her new boyfriend (who she married, and is truly a wonderful guy), and would leave me at home alone (I was between twelve and fourteen at this stage).Being a teenager, and not having any rules, or any parent that seemed to really care what I did, I had parties. My house was the house that you could go to with your boyfriend to have sex. Or drink. Or do anything else you'd like. After all, there was no parent there. I didn't necessarily want all of the things that went on at my house to happen...but at twelve, I was incapable of stopping the craziness. Parents started telling their kids that they couldn't have anything to do with me (at this stage I was still a virgin, didn't drink, didn't smoke pot, and was a geek honours student). What they were really saying was that their kids couldn't have anything to do with my mother. And I can't really blame them. My mother either didn't notice or didn't care. She was busy.

At fifteen, my mother married and I refused to move with them. I stayed with some neighbours for two years, until I started college and could reinvent myself. And my life really began.

I'm finding my mother more difficult than ever since I've become a mother myself. Everything that I choose to do with my kids seems to be a personal affront to her. She spends every visit criticizing my parenting, my children, my marriage, and me in general. Any discussion of my childhood rapidly deteriorates into a shouting, crying match. If we keep things very shallow and I ignore all the digs at my parenting and children, we can manage to have a calm visit. But I leave completely stressed out of my head, swearing that I'm not traveling 28 hours with two small children again just to put up with that! She has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder since I became an adult, and is on medication. My first thought was "why didn't she get help when it could have made such a difference to my childhood?". And my second was "please don't let me have it too. I don't want to treat my children like that.". The medication doesn't seem to be working as well anymore, and my sisters say that she has stopped seeing her therapist. I see glimpses of the mother that I'd like to have every now and then (like when she flew over to be with us when my daughter was born), but then she flies into a rage and the illusion is shattered, and I'm once again the cowering eleven year old that I was (like three days after my daughter was born). I've been searching for a mother for the last part of my life, and I've been disappointed in several relationships, when the women didn't quite meet the mother expectation. Most recently, this has included my mother in law, who is a great woman. But she has three daughters and a son of her own. As much as she does love me, she isn't willing to be a mother substitute for me. So I chant my current mantra. "I let go of all expectations."

I do hope that one day we can get past all of this. But I can't imagine how it will happen. According to my mother, I was a terrible child and she had it hard. So there won't be any apologies there! And she's the type to tell complete strangers that they are bad parents. So I don't think I'll get any leeway there either. So for now, I'll concentrate on being everything that my mother wasn't. Present and loving for a start. And I'll keep dreading that next trip six months in advance.