Mother Talkers

Birth Order and IQ

Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 08:36:34 AM PDT

Sorry, as the oldest of four children, I can’t help myself. But Parenting recently covered a Norwegian study showing that oldest children had slightly higher IQ scores than their younger siblings.

Before you elderly sibs puff up your egos as big as mine, the numbers were actually statistically insignificant and within normal range. In a family with three children, for example, the oldest would have a score of 103, the second child came in at 101 and third at 100.

Nonetheless, the oldest almost always had slightly higher scores, which the magazine speculated was due to mom and dad’s undivided attention -- at least for a little while -- high expectations and added responsibility.

While the magazine admitted that most of the character traits attributed to birth order were stereotypes –- since the numbers were insignificant -- it still entertained the possibility that there may be something to birth order. For example, 13 of the 41 U.S. presidents were firstborns as were the 21 of the first 23 astronauts. Firstborns, which are given props for their alleged leadership qualities, also make up a disproportionate number of Rhodes scholars and university professors.

I don’t know about intelligence -- although the sense of responsibility among firstborns in my family is well established -- but there is a strange pattern of marriages related to birth order in my family.

My husband and I are the oldest siblings in our families. I am the oldest of four children and DH is the oldest of two. My mom, the oldest of four children, married my dad, who like DH, is the oldest of two males. My mother-in-law is the youngest of three children and my father-in-law was the youngest of five children. My brother-in-law is seriously dating a woman who is the youngest sibling -- like him she is No. 2 of two children. My brother and sisters have always gravitated towards people who correspond with their birth orders. Weird, huh?

Also, many of my friends are first-born or only children.

Do you have any theories on birth order?  

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Tags: birth order, IQ, responsibility, siblings, dependable siblings (all tags)

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  • Roles (0 / 0)

    One of the interesting things that I have seen is the way kids adopt "roles" within a family.

    My uncle was once commenting on how his daughter, the youngest of the three, was so completely different than her older brothers.  She was rebellious, while the two older boys were straight arrows.

    I saw very clear roles develop for the three of them

    The oldest boy was an athlete

    The middle one was a good student

    The youngest became the rebel

  • In general, (0 / 0)

    it seems like the second is easier than the first, mostly because the parents finally have a clue.

  • Not sure about the president thing.. (0 / 0)

    If 13/41 presidents were first-borns, then that means that (and this assumes that the remainder are not only children, but I have not idea about that)  28/41 were not first-borns.  I wonder if that doesn't fit the stereotype that second-and-beyond-borns are more dynamic and outgoing....

    I have two children.  My eldest (male,8) is quiet, bright, inquisitive, studious and eager to please.  
    My youngest (female,4) is rebellious, daring, sneaky, artistic, not eagar to please and charming.

     

  • birth order theory (0 / 0)

    I'm very into birth order theory.  As an only, with all of the anti-only-child messages out there in society, I had to read up on it to educate myself.  People really think onlies are freaks and I shudder when I hear people saying that they are going to have another kid to give the other kid a sibling.  It's nice to have a sibling (that you get along with), but not a reason to have another one.

    Basically, onlies are first-borns as far as the theory goes with a few extra quirks, since they never have to compete for attention.

    I don't believe any of the intelligence stuff though, but I do think that your birth order plays into your personality.

    Most of the only child stuff I have read said that you are better off to marry someone with a different birth order.  In other words, only and only isn't good.  I married a 5th out of 7, and we are perfect together : )

    • I'm a oldest who married (0 / 0)

      a youngest...works pretty well.  I'm bossy and he's more than willing to be bossed around.

      • I'm an elder who married a youngest (0 / 0)

        but no dice. But DH is a twin, and of the two of them, has always been the more outward and focused, so maybe that throws that off.

        Although I have to say that I think the fact that DH's oldest sibling is his sister has had some interesting and positive impacts on his view of women. He's never been threatened by women supervisors, for example. Any of you have similar views on husbands who are younger siblings to older sisters?

        • Totally (0 / 0)

          My dh is the youngest (from his original family ... his mom had a second marriage and another child when dh was 11) and his older sib is a sister. I am the oldest and had a younger brother. An exboyfriend from college (4 year relationship) - also the same family set up.

          I really think that having an older sister helps a guy feel comfortable and familiar in day to day dealing with their wives. Dh and I have such an easy rapport, from our first date. Even my ex boyfriend from college - we ultimately had really different values and desires about lifestyle (I'm sure he votes Republican), but were super compatible on day to day living. I'm slightly bossy and have definite ideas on what we're going to do, and dh and this exboyfriend were fine with it. Not that it is/was always my way, but the negotiating of daily stuff just is pretty easy. (Big stuff, we have the normal struggles).

          The funny part? My dh is also master of somehow getting me to agree or think somehow he agreed, just like my brother was able to do with my mom!!  How are younger sibs able to do that??

          Other ex boyfriends - one was an only and one was another  oldest - oh geez, forget about it.

          RachelD

        • My husband had an older sister, (0 / 0)

          and I do think it might make a difference.  I've noticed the same with my boys, too...as far as our children's birth order goes, we had three girls, followed by three boys and then one last girl.  My boys have never lacked for female companionship and always seem to have girls around them...everywhere we go, they manage to have all of these girls all around (and sometimes all over) them.  I think this has a lot to do with their having grown up with sisters and just being very comfortable around girls as a result.  I think girls/women pick up on this and will gravitate towards males who aren't shy or scared of them.

        • yup (0 / 0)

          and i think it helps that my dh's sister is bossy just like me :)  he adores her and so do i.
    • Onlies (0 / 0)

      Ds is an only, and I can't imagine him not being his sweet natured self as an adult. I've known some onlies who do live up to the stereotype, and others who don't. I've done some reading on parenting of onlies, and I'm just not worried about it.

      Do you really think that people think onlies are freaks? That would bug me, if people judged him automatically on that. I recall now that one of the books I have talked about how to talk to my kid about other people's insensitive (and ignorant) comments.

      Do you think you were partly attracted to your husband because his family is basically ... huge? I do worry that ds will not have many people in his life when he is old, since he won't have any cousins on my side and his other cousins are all back East. Not much family coming and going in daily life. Maybe he will marry some with 6 sibs!

      • Yep (0 / 0)

        I hope things have changed, as there are more and more families with one child, but yes, I do think that people carry a stereotypes about onlies.  Weird, introverted, selfish, spoiled.  The classics.

        The most common one I received was, "You're an only?  You don't seem like an only!"  O-kee.  Is that a compliment or an insult.  

        I also was always very good at making and keeping friends. Not that I necessarily was 'popular' with a million acquaintances (not my thing, that's the introvert in me) but I always had a great group of core friends.  That is something you learn how to do as an only for sure.  And of course, sometimes friends make the best family.

        I'm sure things have changed now though because it's so much more common than it was when I was growing up.    

        • Stereotypes (0 / 0)

          How annoying. And it makes no sense. What, people have never met someone who's selfish, spoiled, or weird .... and who also has siblings? Right.

          People have questioned our decision, but nobody has trotted out any silly statements .... yet.

      • i have an only.. (0 / 0)

        and she frequently hears..."wow you are not at all selfish". i have the same worries rachel about if my dd will be lonely.  dd is now almost 17 and one thing i know for sure...she cherishes her friends and keeps them forever.  tonight she is off celebrating a friend's (since kindergarten) 17th birthday, just the 2 of them.  she is still extremely close to another friend from PRESCHOOL. they met at age 2 1/2 and we moved from sf to east bay when they were just 5 years old, yet they still adore each other.  btw, this friend is an only too. quite of few of her friends are onlies....so many more of them these days.
  • Well, I'm the oldest. (0 / 0)

    And I was the "only" for close to nine years.  A lot of parental expectation that probably made me bossy and arrogant, if nothing else.  I'm still bossy.  I still think I'm always right.  I probably had seven children so I'd have lots of people to boss around.  

    My husband was the youngest by several years.  I have opinions about that, too, ofcourse.  The youngest always seem to wait around for everyone to do for them.  I see it with others who are the youngest...and I certainly see it in my own youngest two children.  By the time we get to the youngest, we're old and tired.  So much easier to just do for them than to always teach them to do it for themselves.  We're tired of making points and setting examples...we just want quiet!

    • five years (0 / 0)

      From what I've read, your personality would really be more of an only, and of course there is a lot of overlap between oldest and onlies.  

      If there is more than five years difference, then you are an only according to the "only authorities."

      Even a youngest kid who was born five years after the last kid is more of an only than a youngest.

    • Hey! Me too! (0 / 0)

      But I disagree when people say that I'm more of an only because of the gap. I may have some of the independence and assertiveness of an only, but being so old when a baby comes along means you get a lot of responsibility very very early. I was changing diapers, feeding babies and babysitting by the age of ten. Sometimes I think that mom had it pretty easy...

      • And I was brought up in a household (0 / 0)

        of adults, too.  My grandparents lived with us.  By the time my brothers came along, I was expected to act like one of the grown-ups.  To this day, I still feel almost more like my brothers'  mother than I do their sister.  

        • Yup. (0 / 0)

          Me too. I was brought up in a commune, and I was the only kid until about nine. I was always expected to act like an adult. Don't get me started...I can feel the bitterness coming. :)

          • my SIL (0 / 0)

            is almost 10 years older than DH. My PIL put a tremendous amount of responsiblity on her to take care of DH and twin brother. In fairness, MIL worked two (working class) jobs, and FIL worked full-time as well. But FIL's parents lived in the same house (southern European/migrant story here) and were ostensibly around to care for children/house while PIL worked. SIL still ended up having what seems to be (in recounting) an obscene level of duty of care over two very active boys. Luckily for both her, DH and us, she is a very loving woman who doesn't hold any sort of grudge towards DH specifically; they have a close relationship and I like her tremendously as well. But in hearing the details (too many details sometimes), I again revow that I will not make Jess act in loco parentis for younger siblings. It is not a fair burden at all.

          • You know, (0 / 0)

            I didn't mind.  I wasn't overly burdened with childcare and household work, I was just expected to be "grown up".  To this day, I fit in better with people a generation older than me than I do with people my own age.  And ofcourse, its probably responsible for making me a know-it-all.

            • it's lovely that (0 / 0)

              you have pleasant memories of this; I know my SIL resented being put in the position of serious responsibility over two young boys. Not the boys themselves, mind you, but the fact that she had to take on responsibility so young.

              • You know, (0 / 0)

                I wasn't given undue responsibility.  I had just always been treated like a "little adult"...even before my brothers were born.  It was as if I was "part of the club", you know?  I helped with my brothers, but was not responsible for their care.  My mother didn't work outside the home at the time, and she had my grandmother around to help as well.  I was just another one of the "grown ups".  And you know, when I was a kid, I never wanted to be a kid.  I just wanted to be an adult.  I didn't like the way most parents treated their children.  Thought they were treated in a horribly condescending manner.

                • Capricorn Sun? (0 / 0)

                  And you know, when I was a kid, I never wanted to be a kid.  I just wanted to be an adult.  

                  Classic Capricorn sentiment. I must be on an astrology kick lately.  Are you by any chance a Capricorn Sun? (I would bet Sun or Moon ...).

                  Possibly a Virgo sentiment (plus you are a self-described "know it all", which is a Virgo deal :), but I'm thinking Capricorn.

            • That's funny... (0 / 0)

              I'm the same. I never connected the two before...

    • Oldest/youngest (0 / 0)

      that's what we are too, although my husband isn't technically the youngest any more, but his younger brother didn't come along until DH was 12 so basically he was the youngest all the time growing up.

      I agree, I think it is a good personality fit.

  • I have lots of theories (0 / 0)

    One thing I've heard is that older siblings tend to marry younger siblings, which is true in my relationhip.  I'm the older sibling who is used to being in charge, and my husband is the younger sibling who is used to having someone else take the lead, so we're very compatible in that way.

    My birth family is very typical in terms of birth order.  I'd say we follow the typical IQ thing too, with each kid having a lower IQ than the one before.
    #1 daughter (me) - ambitious, organized, list-maker, smart, bossy, inflexible
    #2 daughter - artistic, social, trouble getting along with parents during teen years
    #3 son - charmer, super-social, horrendously disorganized and impulsive, lots of academic trouble in school and never held responsible for anything (allowed to the baby indefinitely -- he's now 22)

    So I'm really curious to see how things play out in my own family.  So far, my kids are pretty typical.  My oldest is 3 and is introverted, thoughtful, calm, but needs everything to go his way.  My youngest is 1 and is very social, charming, flexible, and more physically active.  It's impossible to say about IQ at this point, but my older kid seems really bright in some areas, but has only average verbal skills, whereas the younger one is very verbal at a young age.  We'll see how it goes as they grow up.

    • In my family, (0 / 0)

      I'm the #1 daughter and I'm not terribly organized and I'm an artist.  Was a good student through high school, then left home and went berserk at state college LOL.  Took a few years off to find myself and transferred to art college.  Feel I've found my calling as a mother and artist...finally.

      #2 son athletic, competitive, not a great student in school, but extremely driven, successful and workaholic as an adult.  (2 years younger than me)

      #3 son... the typical baby, was 10 years younger than me.  Couldn't hang a picture, change a lightbulb w/o help LOL.  Athletic like #2 son.  Successful career-wise but doesn't live to work like #2 son.  Still living the social scene like he's 21.  

      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

      by 1plain1peanut on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 04:57:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Youngest married youngest (0 / 0)

    I'm a youngest of two who married a youngest of two. I don't think either of us are typically "youngest" in the same way that a "youngest of many" is. My brother is only 11.5 months older than me, so I am not THAT much younger. My DH was 5 years younger than his older brother, but the brother was profoundly mentally retarded so DH is a lot more like an only than a youngest.

    I do think it's interesting, though, to see how and if the stereotypes play out in a family.

  • Interesting (0 / 0)

    I doubt birth order affects IQ that much.  There are so many variables with IQ.

    I'm an oldest married to an oldest.  Our relationship is pretty good.  We've been married 13.5 years.  I think what makes it work is our strengths and weaknesses compliment each other.  

    I find the comments about having an older sister for a male interesting.  My father was an only, had a terrible mother and in turn some not so great theories about women.  DH has a younger brother who is 6 years younger than him, and a really messed up mother.  DH has some trust issues as well, which imagine are rooted in his upbringing.  I wonder how I came to pick this person who has some commonality with my own father.  I wonder if it's birth order, or something else entirely.

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

    by 1plain1peanut on Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 04:49:13 PM PDT

  • same marriage birth order too (0 / 0)

    out of 4 in my family, every last one of us  married a spouse with same birth order...strange isn't it?

    • weirdly (0 / 0)

      My dad is six years older than my mom. DH is six years older than me. Sister's boyfriend (they've been together for three years now, so I'm counting it) is 2.5 years older than her. Go fig.

  • My take (0 / 0)

    As a second child married to a second child, here's my (somewhat tongue-in-cheek and grossly generalized) take:

    Oldest children love to seize on studies such as these that show they are better than their sibs. It feeds their need to constantly be superior. They probably felt deeply jealous and displaced by subsequent children and need the constant affirmation.

    Second children, like myself and DH, are not to be confused with youngest children or the "baby" of the family. Second children also have esteem issues but we're so used to playing second fiddle it becomes our lot in life. Between jealous older siblings constantly putting us down, and parents who wondered why we weren't achieving the same things as our older sibs, we feel like we're constantly trying to catch up and prove ourselves-- and always failing, because just as soon as we start to think we're just as OK as everyone else in the family, our threatened older sibling has to pull out a study like this one.

    Older siblings think the world revolves around them. Second children are great at putting everyone else's needs first, not that that doesn't put us in therapy at some point.

    In my family, my sister is the oldest, my mom is the baby, and I am the middle child. It took me a while to figure it out but once I did it made everything clearer. My husband is also the middle child between his sister and his brother. So between the two of us, we are excellent peacemakers and also incapable of making a decision. We also feel AOK keeping a healthy distance from anyone in our families.

    Among my closest friends, I have an older, a second, a youngest, and a middle. We do often fall into our birth-order roles, though! The oldest is usually the planner and decision maker, who gets mad if she doesn't get what she wants or if other people disagree with her. The other second child and I are sometimes resentful yet afraid to speak up if we disagree with her. The middle child steadfastly takes no position whatsoever. The youngest is oblivious to the drama and just does whatever the hell she wants, even if it inconveniences everyone else. But we're all pretty awesome people and I love them all.

    • Heh (0 / 0)

      As an oldest sister, I was a bossy know it all who liked to vacuum my room and who articulated the goal of graduating from college summa cum laude when I was in 7th grade, yes, yes. I was a thorn in my brother's side at times. Or truthfully, I think he relished making fun of my busybody ways behind my back.

      OTOH, twice in our childhood (this is before high school of course), I kicked ass - literally - on my brother's behalf. I was bigger, smarter, and pissed off, and they never bugged my brother or his friends again. May I have some credit for this please LOL.

      Lucy and Linus are archetypes, and we were totally like that.

      I have a couple of friends who are youngest of three, and I can feel myself wanting to tell them what to do. It's so bizarre. After reading your post, I'll be doubly careful not to.

      • Yes! (0 / 0)

        I have to really try not to tell everyone what they should be doing...but there must be something about all of "oldest", because people keep asking me!  Do we put out a vibe?

        • Vibe (0 / 0)

          I"m pretty sure there must be a vibe, because with the exception of these two friends, my closest friends, to a one, are oldest. How can that be, if there is no vibe?

          It's funny about advice, now that you mention it. I ask my closest friends for advice, and vice versa, but my "younger" (actually they are also literally about 7 years younger also), I don't ask for advice. It's strange because we all went to grad school together so I know that they are very skilled and smart.

          Interesting.

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