Mother Talkers

I had a blue Christmas without you

by half dozen

Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 12:27:43 AM PDT

I felt more than a bit empty around Christmas this year.  For the first time it seemed completely devoid of meaning.  No one believes in God.  No one believes in Santa.  There's nothing particularly thrilling to give or get.   There's just an obligation to pour money into the pockets of corporate jerks and fill our houses with crap none of us needs, or even really wants.

I remember Christmas as magical.  But, as I reflect on my childhood, the magic of the holiday was closely tied to religious ritual.  Coming into church on a Sunday soon after Thanksgiving, back when Christmas lights didn't begin showing up by Halloween and could still be cause for celebration, we'd find the Advent wreath suspended from the rafters.  Oh, yes!  Christmas is coming! The three purple candles, a pink one for the third Sunday of Advent, a white candle for Christmas Eve.  Each candle with its own story and symbolic meaning.

The beautiful haunting Christmas carols.  O Come O Come, Emmanuel was my favorite.  It still gives me goosebumps.  The nativity display.  The Christmas story with its shepherds and wise men and camels and bright stars and inns and stables and mangers and gold, frankincense and myrrh.  Oh my!  I just loved it all.

My poor darling children have none of this, thanks to me.  I, like many of my generation, have largely rejected organized religion.  Unfortunately, I now understand hypocrisy and oppression and believe that the church is guilty of all the sins it forbids.  But what do we do about our spiritual longings?  How do we find meaning and impart that meaning to our children who are daily bombarded with despicable messages from our commercialized world?  For meaning surely does exist.  

I am at a loss when it comes to recreating Christmas magic without a little baby Jesus to help me.  And I can't just pull him out of a box in the attic and blow the dust off of him so he can lay in his manger Christmas morning.  My parents did this, and it was okay, because we knew all about him, every day of every year, so it didn't smack of phoniness like it does when I try to bring him into the Christmas mix.

I have no answers.  My children sense my sadness around Christmas, and they know it has something to do with religion.  But it doesn't really.  It has to do with meaning, significance, all things lofty and sublime.  It has to do with my remembered feelings of joy and sheer awe at the birth of the Savior.  It's the Christmas spirit that, without a miracle, my children will never know.

Tags: faith, holidays, childhood (all tags)

Permalink | 52 comments

  • Sounds like you need (0 / 0)

    a little 'religionless Christianity.' Just because many organized churches are full of falsely pious jerks, doesn't change the fundamental teachings of Jesus (which still seem to resonate with you). He didn't like those jerks any more than you do!

    You can still marvel at Christmas without going to church. What does it mean that God became a helpless infant in order to save the world? Or that he grew up and taught that the helplessness, dependence and poverty he experienced as a child were blessed states?  What does this say about US and how we should be living our lives? These are awesome questions to ponder with your kids during the Christmas season.

    Merry Christmas, half dozen!

    (oh, and, Viva Santa!)

    by sangfroid on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 06:46:53 AM PDT

  • Try going back farther (0 / 0)

    Perhaps you could go back to the purpose behind each of our Christmas symbols. Most of them precede the spread of Christianity, and tie into a simple way of life when the change of the seasons was life and death.  Even some of the Christian carols are religious words draped over pagan circle dances.

    If you can't marvel in the Christian traditions and miracles, perhaps you can use Christmas time to marvel in the Earth and the universe that we are hurtling through even as we are standing still. Or, perhaps note that the star the guided the wise men to the manger of baby Jesus, is actually the nursery that gives rise to molecules that make our existence possible.

    I too am trying to consider how to add meaning to the holidays when I become a mother. (Yes, I'm on this site a little early... what can I say?) I haven't quite figured it out out yet either, but I'm leaning toward marveling at the wonder and mysticism of the universe.

    Mother wannabe, ETA Spring 09 if biology allows.

    by faedrake on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 09:40:51 AM PDT

  • nostalgia (0 / 0)

    It's hard.

    What religion were you raised in?  Catholicism?  Religion in general is a hard one to shake.  No matter what our minds tell us, there is a deep longing inside of us for a god, and if you were "indoctrinated" (for lack of a milder word), that longing becomes rolled up with feelings of childhood nostalgia.  Throw in a dash of Christmas expectations for perfection and it's a perfect recipe for the blues.

    We actually made a big decision recently that we are going to raise our kids Catholic. We (well, me) recently spent a few years in a Unitarian Universalist church.  As kind and loving as the congregation was, I would leave feeling emptier than I did when I walked in. I just can't shake the rituals of Catholicism. I can't imagine my kids growing up without it. I'm ok with doubting some parts of it, a la Mother Theresa. I've also acknowledged that to throw it all away is to throw away a huge part of our family's culture. Generations of Irish and French Canadian culture is not going to end with me.

    Anyway, sorry to babble on and on. Even though the UU thing didn't work for us, it might be worth giving it a shot, and might be just the right dose of religion for your family.

    Best wishes.

    by NJmom on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:12:31 AM PDT

    • Cafeteria Catholic here (0 / 0)

      Mostly I follow my own conscience but I was brought up in that tradition and it seems like the right way to experience the spiritual to me.  Do I agree with the church's leaders?  Not much of the time, but it has existed for many years despite some pretty awful decisions on their part.  I try to focus on the gospels and not on the priests and hierarchy.  Oddly enough as a musician I work directly for the priests but lately I've been very lucky in that I've been working with some really good ones that I can respect.

      Good luck with whatever you choose.

      by music teacher on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:35:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • Wow, NJmom (0 / 0)

      I didn't know you left the UU church.  I completely get what you are saying... especially this time of year.  Funny thing about our UU church, things kind of wind down this time of year... which is the complete opposite of most churches LOL.  

      I have really thought about doing something else because I too miss the ritualistic aspect of religion, but then I have a hard time picking and choosing the parts of religion that I want to pass down to my kids.  I'm just curious... how do you reconcile this?  I have considered it too... but I'm pro-choice, etc.  There's a lot of "buts"... KWIM?  

      DH isn't totally down with the whole UU thing either.  I'd love to do something as a family.

      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

      by 1plain1peanut on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 03:39:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Kids will ultimately pick and choose themselves (0 / 0)

        I grew up very well-churched. My parents were extremely active in their Lutheran church and we were well-educated in the Bible, the meanings of liturgy, doctrine, etc. My brother, sister and I have all remained active in churches, but we've each taken slightly different paths and we've each rejected certain aspects of church teaching we grew up with.

        I think of all the kids I grew up with-all just as actively churched as I, and I know that they now follow a myriad of spiritual paths.

        by mkkendrick on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 04:11:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • asdf (0 / 0)

        We just moved up back near my mom, so it was kind of a natural break.

        I started to find the lack of any mention of god personally empty. This particular congregation was becoming a quasi-nature-based-Buddhist-yoga-atheist congregation.  No offense to anyone who is a serious nature-based religious person, Buddhist, yogi or atheist.  It was the that melding started to feel neither here nor there.  I became uneasy with the incessant borrowing from other religions, if only because it made me question what the faith tradition of UUism exactly was if we had to keep borrowing from others (which is a whole debate in itself).

        I don't really plan to pick and choose the parts in our next church, I am just going to go with the flow (kind of like my parents did) and my kids can do the same.

        What other churches would you be interested in?

        P.S. I hope if there are any UUs reading this out there, please don't take offense.  Just my experience at one point in my life in one congregation...

        by NJmom on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 04:58:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Yes... (0 / 0)

          I know exactly what you mean.  My UU church is a wonderful place full of great people.  I love the RE classes, but I've felt for some time that something's missing.  And, I don't live close to the church so I find myself really only going when I have to.  

          My father was a lapsed Catholic, a child of divorce.  My mother was Church of Scotland, which is Presbyterian.  We never really went to church when I was a kid, though all my friends were Catholic (growing up in Chicago area).  I went to church with them sometimes.  I continued to do so while in college, even though I couldn't take communion.  When DH and I got married, we did it in an Episcopal Church.  He grew up going to Church of Christ and a Lutheran Church.  We thought Episcopal would be a nice compromise.  The church is nice and has gone through a lot of upgrades.  Lots of fancy people in fancy clothes there... I feel like I don't quite fit in there.  

          There's a beautiful Catholic Church here in town... literally walking distance away.  Since I'm not Catholic, it would mean going through the RCIA to get in.  I don't know if I'm up for that or if DH is.  But, it's the ritual of the Catholic and Episcopal churches that I find appealing.  I feel like I've been deciding what to do now for years.

          "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

          by 1plain1peanut on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 07:08:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • It took me till my late 30s to settle (0 / 0)

            into a real committment to a particular congregation.  After growing up Lutheran, I attended Catholic services in college, but never participated in ANY activities.  When living in Boston, I attended the services at Harvard Memorial Church: amazing sermons, amazing music, amazing space.  But, again, I resisted joining anything. After moving to the South, I tried out Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists (yikes!), and finally found a small, down-to-earth Episcopal congregation that I love.  It is a joy to go to services there.  After attending services there regularly for two years, I FINALLY joined and started to get active. So, it was a slow, slow process, but I'm glad I didn't rush it.  

            by mkkendrick on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 07:34:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • Yep (0 / 0)

            Yep, something was missing.  That's how I used to feel every single Sunday (that I went anyway).  The people, the ministers, the service, the RE were all great.

            Maybe try out the Catholic Church for a while without doing the RCIA to make sure, because that is a huge commitment.  You might like the RCIA classes anyway, even if you didn't decide to go through with it.  And I don't think your husband would necessarily have to do them right at the same time if he wasn't into it right now (or ever).

            Follow your heart!

            by NJmom on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 12:56:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • I definitely (0 / 0)

              would not go through the RCIA stuff without making darn sure I was doing the right thing.  I really want DH to be a part of this too.  One of my complaints about my current situation is that I am sick of doing all of it myself.  DH isn't that into it, so he never goes.  This is something I want to do as a family.  

              We'll see... I'm still committed to co-teach the UU preschool class until May, so I probably won't do anything before then.  I guess I could visit the other church on an off Sunday.  

              No matter what I do, I'm definitely taking a break from volunteering to teach at the UU church this fall.  This is my second year and I just need a break.  

              "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

              by 1plain1peanut on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 04:00:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • I know (0 / 0)

                I know, I was doing everything by myself at the UU church too.  My DH really didn't like it all that much, although he did try.  I don't know how much he's going to dig going back to the the Catholic Church either, but at least it's something he is familiar with and right down the street so I'm hoping he will participate a bit more.  

                I think I know the reason why religion goes through the mother in many cultures!  ; )  

                by NJmom on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 07:09:14 AM PDT

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        • different fits for different needs (0 / 0)

          Well, I'll speak up as a very happy, fulfilled Unitarian, just as a counterpoint (and of course I'm not offended that you didn't find it fulfilling! UU churches fit some and don't fit others and that's how they are.)

          I come to UUism from the exact opposite end of the spectrum - I was raised by bitter atheists, and the whole time I was growing up I was looking for deeper meaning and spirituality with no guidance from my family. I looked at some more typical churches in young adulthood but they were all much too ritualistic. The UU church was a great fit for me - questioning, seeking, with some ritual but nothing that scared the skeptic side of my brain.

          For what it's worth, my DH who is a recovering Catholic also loves it, and finds that it fills the void left when he parted with Catholicism while fitting better with his scientific, rational side. My bitter atheist mom, on the other hand, went to church with us a couple times and got totally freaked out because it was way too "churchy" for her. LOL!

          At my church, the winter holidays are ... well ... unified and universal. There's a connection between solstice and Christmas and the fact that so many faith traditions have stories that erupt out of the darkness of the winter months, when faith can try us all. I see it as one of the ties that binds the whole human family together, and that's where I find my strength and my spirituality. And so it's a great fit for me.

          by diane on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 07:32:21 AM PDT

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          • Thanks for sharing (0 / 0)

            I actually hesitated before I wrote about my experience, because I didn't want anyone to think anything bad about UUism, because it is a great church organization and no doubt, one of the greatest things about it is the people.

            That's awesome that it was the right fit for you and your husband.  And interesting that your atheist mom found it too churchy!

            I think as you said, it's really all about the fit between person and specific congregation too.

            by NJmom on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 12:41:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • Funny, I found one UU too churchy (0 / 0)

          I think they really run the gamut.  This one felt very Protestant to me, while others were more as you mentioned.  Regardless, I'm glad you're finding what works for you!

          by Anu on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 08:50:13 AM PDT

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          • asdf (0 / 0)

            That is interesting.  

            I used to go to another one and one of the ministers was way smart and I felt like I was sitting in a lecture hall and I couldn't understand anything he was saying.  Too scholarly!  

            by NJmom on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 12:44:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  • Merry Christmas (0 / 0)

    I am not religious - my family rejected organized religion long before I came along - and so a baby Jesus was never part of my holiday season.

    We still sang Christmas carols and had a Christmas tree and gave Christmas presents.

    My grandmother would bake and bake and bake. I remember the year that she got a KitchenAid mixer from her children, so she would not have to knead the cinnamon rolls by hand. It astonshes me to think of all the things she did - she worked full time as a telephone operator and still managed to bake and to sew matching dresses for me and my dolly. (I still have the doll clothes she made.)

    It was a time for our family to come together.

    Today I view it as a celebration of the Solstice, the shortest day of the year, and of our family. Without my Grandmother, who died some time ago, our holiday came adrift a bit. I have had to find a way to anchor it and make some new traditions for my daughter. We have toned down on gifts and gone to making and decorating Christmas cookies together. Next year, I was thinking we might build a gingerbread house.

    Putting up the tree is a chance for my daughter to hear the stories of all the old ornaments made by me and my mother and my aunts when I was a child.

    There is much to celebrate: being with family, food, the return of the sun, the coming new year. On the other hand, I suspect part of your sadness is that your kids are getting older, and maybe that pulls at the family, as there are partners to accomodate.

    Good tidings to you, and I hope you can find a path to a more satisfying holiday next year.

    by shenanigans on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:22:17 AM PDT

  • A Spiritually Satisfying Christmas (0 / 0)

    This diary has made me reflect and I've realized that this particular Christmas has probably been the most spiritually satisfying one I've had since I became a mother six years ago.

    In large part, I think it is because the boys are now both old enough to participate in the rituals that have always imbued the holiday with meaning for me.  This year, we were able to enjoy many of the traditions that were important to me as a child: the Advent wreath, the Advent calendar, decorating cookies together, making hand made ornaments to decorate the tree, etc.  The oldest boy was able to participate in his first full-length Christmas Eucharist service (Episcopalian), sang the hymns with gusto and held his lit candle with reverance during the singing of Silent Night.

    I also have begun to relish the parent's role at Christmas.  This year I found great joy in preparing food, gifts, and decorations for the family's enjoyment.  Creating a peaceful, cozy, abundant Christmas for them was a somewhat spiritual act for me.

    To Half Dozen: I think Shenanigans said it best, so I'll just quote her: "Good tidings to you, and I hope you can find a path to a more satisfying holiday next year."

    by mkkendrick on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 12:01:54 PM PDT

  • I thank you all so much (0 / 0)

    for your words of encouragement.  It helps to know that I am not the only one struggling with floating spiritual yearnings.

    Yes, I was raised Catholic.  Parochial schools and all.  And as much as I love the earth, and do believe in a universal spirituality, it is hard to attach a name, a personality, to it that resonates with children.

    We do do wonderful family celebratory things.  I think it's just my inner Irish Catholic girl whispering in my ear that it's just not good enough.  

    Kisses to all of you.  Here's to 2008!

    P.S.  I am going to Costa Rica in January.  I consider it a pilgrimage of sorts.  I am going to seek the Jesus Christ lizard.  Why so named?  It walks on water!

    Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. Henry David Thoreau

    by half dozen on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 12:40:13 PM PDT

    • In addition to the celebratory things (0 / 0)

      maybe you can incorporate some volunteer projects - baking cookies for a food bank, whatever.

      Many communities have choirs. Also, for less committment, there are often Messiah sing-alongs. Or just organize your own caroling.

      And although I am not religious, I have many progressive friends who have wonderful pastors and congregations. Perhaps there is one, even if not close enough for every week, close enough for a special holiday visit.

      And we want pictures of the Jesus Christ Lizard if you see one!

      by shenanigans on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:25:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • No Santa here, either, this year. (0 / 0)

    And its sad.  We aren't into organized religion, either, but that doesn't stop me from appreciating the historic, traditional value of Christmas.  I've tried to pass that on to my children...we don't go to religious services, but we enjoy the music, and ok, I'll cop to watching such services on television.  There is something comforting in observing the traditions...knowing that going back hundreds of years, people like you have participated in similar activities.

    We also have worked hard at making our own traditions...and that's what's kept me from feeling that the season is a wash.  My kids are old enough now to understand that we've built these traditions, within our own family, and to therefore appreciate the meaning  behind them.  

    by tjb22 on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 01:18:08 PM PDT

  • secular humanism (0 / 0)

    We had a makeshift Christmas this year because we are in a hotel.  There is a little fireplace here, and I hung stockings and decorations, and used the treeskirt (without the tree) as a place the put the gifts.  With just the three of us, we shared our usual traditions -- cinnamon buns, opening gifts one at a time, etc. -- and then got dressed and went to a park to feed the homeless.  All in all, it was very satisfying.  

    There is a spiritual dimension as well, but it doesn't have a particular name.  DH identifies as a Hindu, DS believes in a singular God, and I think I'm a pantheist.  It seems to boil down to a feeling of gratitude and connection.  Even though I was raised Catholic, I don't seem to feel the emptiness that many other lapsed Catholics do.  I think I'm not so big on rituals after all.  But I have many friends who love to go to Church for that reason.  Maybe bringing Church back into your celebration would help?  Lots of people only go on Christmas Eve!

    by mamacita on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 01:42:14 PM PDT

    • OT (0 / 0)

      How is the house mamacita?  Any progress?

      Your Christmas in the hotel sounds lovely though.

      by NJmom on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 04:59:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • the house (0 / 0)

        Thanks for asking.... We are expecting air sample results this week and remediation / build back should start shortly thereafter, depending on how extensive the findings are.  Always, waiting.  

        Meanwhile DH innocently mentioned the mold problem to the chattiest possible neighbor, who monitors our comings and goings and noticed both of our cars were gone overnight for several nights in a row.  She happened to be out when we came home today to do some chores, and she loudly asked, "What's gonna happen to the house?  When are they takin' it down to the studs?"  You just know she has blabbed this to everyone in town.  We'll probably never be able to sell!

        Thanks again for asking.  It's been an adventure!  We are trying to finish the high school applications and this little hotel set-up wasn't really made for this spread-out-all-the-papers kind of job.  I don't know which I'll be more glad to be done with.  The good news is, DS seems to be gaining health and energy each day.  I just wish someone had told us sooner to get out.

        by mamacita on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:46:02 PM PDT

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        • Nosy (0 / 0)

          Nosy neighbors.  Got to love em.  "Are they taking it down to the studs?"  Not exactly a sensitive thing to say.

          Applications in a hotel set-up!  Yikes!  Well, at least it will keep you all focused and distracted.

          Glad to hear your DS is feeling better.

          by NJmom on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 05:49:54 AM PDT

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        • And how are you feeling? (0 / 0)

          I know you started new meds, but honestly, if the air quality in your house was bad due to the mold, you might also be feeling better just being in an environment in which you're actually getting more oxygen in the air you're breathing...when you're not getting an over-abundance of oxygen to the brain, every little bit can make a difference.

          by tjb22 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 10:35:23 AM PDT

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          • irony (0 / 0)

            The weird thing is that a week after moving out, I have a deep chest crud.  You'd think if it was related to mold I would have experienced these symptoms while living in the house.  So I think it's probably a coincidence.  There was someone at work with (untreated) bronchitis for a few days before we went on winter break.

            But, I do have more energy and mental focus, which is fantastic. So maybe I'm getting more oxygen.   I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but who cares --  I'll take it!   Thanks for asking :)

            by mamacita on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 11:51:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  • Creating Community without Faith (0 / 0)

    The Washington Post had an article about atheists who attend religious services just this weekend.

    Miles and His Favorites: The World As Seen By a Seven Year Old

    by Hillary on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 02:59:18 PM PDT

  • It doesn't have to be your tradition (0 / 0)

    to be meaningful.  I participate in celebrations of Hannukah and Pesach because I was raised, as a liberal Christian, to do so.    I can do so in a friendly way without insulting my Jewish friends.  The same goes for the Thai holidays from my early childhood, and the Christian festivals that I can enjoy especially for their pre-Christian elements.  

    Holiday celebrations are cultural as much as anything.  That doesn't mean they're not spiritual, but especially in a pluralistic society, they are bigger than any one religious tradition.

    by lonespark on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 04:03:46 PM PDT

  • Tradition (0 / 0)

    I'm saddened by the passing of my family traditions into what I think is meaningless... my mother's family has devolved the Christmas Day celebration into a feed-yourself, watch football and play cards free for all that feels like anything but Christmas- the beautiful, traditional Polish Wigilia celebration we always celebrated with my Dad's family on Christmas Eve disintegrated once my Busia passes away and everyone decided to throw meat back into the meal. My one uncle and his family? Showed up 8 minutes before the meal was served and left 8 minutes after the presents were opened- didn't even stay long enough to get a family kids picture that we used to do every year. Even Midnight Mass was a disappointment- the sermon uninspiring and unusually long, the songs dull. I don't know what it is!

    Every year it gets worse too, and I start to panic for my daughter. I try to get my family into new traditions- like, have my mom's parents over on Christmas Eve afternoon to celebrate- that got killed this year when my mom didn't want to invite them over until the following weekend for no good reason. It. Sucks. and I am having a really hard time with it, because my childhood memories of Christmas are so rich with tradition!

    by lilianna28 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 07:55:16 AM PDT

    • I'm sorry to hear that (0 / 0)

      When my grandparents became too weak to carry on the Wigilia torch was passed to my mother.  We're not as traditional as we once were either.  In the last 10 years or so we've had a ham on the table on Christmas Eve and we actually started making meat pierogi because my cousin married someone from Philly who grew up with that.  Then my sons had egg allergies.  I think the youngest will probably outgrow his like his brother did but I've had to make a batch of eggless pierogi dough for my little guys for the past two years.

      Does your family do any of the cooking together?  We still get together at my grandparent's house, now my uncle's, to make pierogi usually on the 22nd or 23rd.  It's part of the tradition for us.  His ex-wife even comes to help out.  So we're all there.  Three generations again although my parents generation is the old guard now and my mom always says that her mom is smiling down on us.  But it's nice.  My cousins' children are a little older than my kids and they help out while mine get to play with some dough.  My four year old rolled out a few and did a decent job.  Of course he walked off with the dough and came back with a pretzel stuffed pierogi and asked his Nana to cook it for him LOL.

      As for church, I no longer attend the Catholic church that all of the Polish ancestors built although I went through all of the sacraments there and my sons were baptized there.  It has become really conservative and I was hired as a musician closer to my home at another church so we're members there now.  That has been a tough break for me although the new church is so much more welcoming and inspiring.  Oh well, I just hope that someday my adult kids will be coming to my house for Wigilia.

      by music teacher on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:09:25 AM PDT

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      • I should add (0 / 0)

        We don't only make meat pierogi.  We do a batch of cabbage, a batch of farmer's cheese and a batch of potato and onion.  All meat pierogi at Wigilia would be really weird.  

        by music teacher on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:11:14 AM PDT

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        • :) (0 / 0)

          My dad's family is all brothers, so no, we don't cook together. What we get is made by relatives and I need to learn so I can keep going. Ham has snuck in and the once cheese-only pizza we used to have for the kids now has whatever the heck anyone wants. We still do the Oplatek, so that is good :)

          by lilianna28 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:30:18 AM PDT

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          • That's too bad (0 / 0)

            My mom's family carries that tradition and she only has an older brother.  He is very involved in the cooking.  He usually does the boiling-one year he had a terrible burn doing it too, and prepares the fillings.  Everyone on that side of the family loves to cook.  My grandfather was the type of guy who would roast a turkey, have a pot of spaghetti going, and fry up some steaks for a normal Sunday dinner while my grandma prepared the gravy and side dishes.  Then they would order pizza for my cousin later on in the evening when she was in her pizza only phase.

            We still do the Oplatek too although that means someone has to attend the Polish church in December to make sure we get some.

            by music teacher on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:40:42 AM PDT

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    • Ugh (0 / 0)

      That must really hurt to have your family devolve a special celebration like that.

      Maybe you should try hosting a special celebration on your own - invite people or not - before the actual date. Make it what you want to be.

      by shenanigans on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:31:21 AM PDT

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      • You're right (0 / 0)

        of course, sometimes it feels like turning the Titanic though- my mom seems to be happy with tradition being gone, she saw nothing sentimental about it and thinks it was a hassle. It's more about me trying to get the same thing for my kid- this nice, large-family get together that means something, and with a mom who doesn't care all that much, it's difficult to do. I know the solution is to make our own things without them, but that's the issue I've got to resolve for myself.

        by lilianna28 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 10:15:13 AM PDT

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    • It get difficult when kids are grown. (0 / 0)

      My husband and I both grew up in families where there were Christmas gatherings with all the aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.  However, what happened over time, was that those of us in our generation married and  had to start accommodating our schedules to include get togethers with our spouses families, time at our own homes with our kids, and quite frankly, the 24 hour work cycle that means few people work simple 9-5 shifts.  Many of us also moved...some a couple hours away, others a days drive away.  

      We even ran into this this year with our own kids.  Christmas Day was the only day all of us could get together.  Fortunately, it was a day that worked for my parents and my brothers as well.  I'll continue to do my best to get just my own kids together, but more than that?  No promises.  I refuse to be like my mother's older sister who the last Christmas of her life threw a fit and fought with all of her children because they, and their grown children and grandchildren couldn't all come on Christmas Eve and stay the entire evening.  

      by tjb22 on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 10:25:00 AM PDT

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    • Wigilia! (0 / 0)

      I went to my first Wigilia when I was two weeks old.  Sadly, this year, we had to skip it because of dire weather predictions in NJ.  Once my grand-aunt stopped hosting, my first cousin-once-removed took it over and moved it to the weekend before Christmas, rather than Christmas Eve.  Which is nice, because we can still have Christmas at home and go to Wigilia, normally.  I am deathly afraid that Wigilia will end once my grand-aunt passes.  This is the last Christmas tradition my family has, and it hurts to think of not having it.

      There is NO MEAT at Wigilia!!!  Meat filled pierogi?  Heresy. ;)  When I was a child, it was a skill to determine which pierogi were cabbage and which were potato and cheese before you selected them from the bowl.  We have lots of seafood, though.  And then two years ago, we returned to an old tradition of "worms", basically pierogi dough rolled into little worms with poppyseeds and then fried up.

      by tessajp on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 05:09:25 PM PDT

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      • I agree about the meat pierogi (0 / 0)

        My first son was less than 10 days old for his first Wigilia:-) My parents live across the backyard from us so it's not too difficult getting there.

        As far as meat pierogi go, I won't eat them.  They look gross too.  They turn a kind of grey color after they are boiled.  I don't eat the ham either.  I can remember the seafood smell from when I was younger.  Maybe next year I'll bring some seafood dishes so we can get back into that.  It used to smell so heavenly between the onions sauteed in butter and the seafood.

        We could always tell the difference between the different types because we would seal them slightly differently.  The potato ones are just pinched shut.  We braided the edges of the farmer's cheese ones and crimped the edges of the cabbage ones with a fork.  I like the worms idea.  I've never heard of that but it sounds tasty.  There's always a little dough left over at the end.

        by music teacher on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 06:12:37 PM PDT

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        • :-) (0 / 0)

          My pediatrician was SO MAD at my mother when he found she'd taken me out in the winter so early.  Hee hee.  

          The worms thing was a family tradition that ended when Grand-aunt Mae died back in 1982 (A bad year, my grandfather died less than two weeks later).  Her daughter started it again for unknown reasons, nostalgia, probably.  There is a real Polish name for them, but the family name is worms, and I don't know the real name.  :D

          by tessajp on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 06:27:51 PM PDT

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      • here here! (0 / 0)

        It makes me absolutely crazy when they have all the meat all over. It really is going by the wayside now that Busia is gone, unfortunately.

        We used to have these dinners at my Dad's Aunt Sally and Uncle Chester's house- the table was so long it would reach from the front door INTO the kitchen, where my Busia and Aunt Sally and Aunt Zofia would sit and keep the food coming. We were the ONLY kids on that side of the family for almost 15 years, so my Dad's youngest cousin  Bobby and his brother Big Rick (ALWAYS the Santa, thanks to his jolly physique) would take us upstairs and order Connie's Pizza (Cheese ONLY) and watch Bugs Bunny cartoons that Bobby collected. It was awesome. Then, Santa would go to my Busia's house EARLY  on Christmas Eve, so we'd all go over there and open gifts until it was time for midnight mass.

        I MISS IT!!!

        by lilianna28 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 07:42:09 AM PDT

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  • Hope this comment is not too late (0 / 0)

    for you to see it.

    I wanted to think really long and carefully before responding because I am a faithful church-goer, and faith is a very important part of my life. I didn't want to sound preachy or judgmental of other folks' choices.

    I can't really tell from your diary if you miss being part of a faith community in general, or just as a part of Christmas. So I am not sure if finding a place you could worship just on holidays or during the advent season would be something you are interested in [you did mention something about not dusting of baby Jesus just during the season] or if you would like to do this more often, or if you'd just like to bring more meaning to Christmas without being part of a faith community.

    I guess what I wanted to say is that churches are [or can be, anyway] like workplaces, community service organizations, political parties, etc -- in that they are all human organizations, and therefore, flawed. People will be people, and that means they will be greedy, judgmental, hypocritical and all the other things that we humans can be. Churches can be that way, too. Some more than others. Perhaps there is a church out there that can provide some of what you are looking for while having little of the bad stuff. Sort of like when I pick a political candidate - I pick the one that has the most stuff I like and the least stuff I don't. I don't expect to find one that I agree with on everything. Same with my church -- I just find the closest match possible. I belong to a liberal Baptist church, which sounds oxymoronic, but what it means is my church is welcoming of everyone [regardless of sexual orientation] and we care more about the parts of the Bible that tell us to help the poor, make peace, etc., and we are less about the parts of religion that are about judging people and telling them how to live. But I have to cringe sometimes when other Baptists do things that I find offensive and contrary to what I think Jesus would have done.

    Anyway, I hope this comes across as intended. I can't imagine the holidays without my church -- for me, there's nothing like singing "Silent Night" by candlelight on Christmas eve -- so if that is something you wish to bring to your life, I wanted to wish you luck in finding it.

    by Lisa in Austin on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 09:57:10 AM PDT

    • What a thoughtful & beautiful comment (0 / 0)

      :>)

      It reminded me of being in church with my family years ago.  I always get teary in church listening to the music.  I don't go regularly now, but I do cherish the good memories I have.  My family has been challenged over the years finding the "right" fit.  

      Loved your comment.

      karen

      by karen m on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 10:35:58 AM PDT

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    • Thank you, Lisa (0 / 0)

      for your words.  Yes, my melancholy about a lack of a spiritual community is a year-round thing, felt most acutely at Christmas and Easter, when the commercial flip side of the holidays really gets to me.

      My family did attend the same church for many years, one that sounds a bit like yours.  My atheist husband would attend with us, because it was a big deal to me, and would work calculus problems on index cards during the service so he wouldn't accidentally pay attention.  

      But when I got divorced I didn't feel great about going there any more. I think my own recrimination and guilt got in the way. And also my sense that life isn't as simple and perfect as I thought it was, and that the bright shiny Christians just didn't get it. Since then I haven't found something that works. Something that's simple and pure, but doesn't make me feel like crap!

      I probably have a wish list that is too long. I'll renew my efforts in 2008.

      Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. Henry David Thoreau

      by half dozen on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 02:46:14 PM PDT

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      • thanks (0 / 0)

        and good luck to you!

        I know what you mean about bright shiny Christians. I particularly remember when I was in my third year of struggling to get pregnant and someone in our church told a story about needing a new job and praying about it and then the perfect job just materializing out of nowhere. Left me feeling like the message was if I just prayed enough, or was good enough, I would get pregnant. Ugh. But that was one person and one story, and I think not representative of our church in general.

        anyway, good luck on your search. I hope you find what is meaningful to you.

        by Lisa in Austin on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:04:57 PM PDT

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      • I loved Lisa's comment too (0 / 0)

        I can't recall where I read it, maybe DailyKos, but I saw a great comment that talked about someone's preacher telling the Baby Jesus story from the point of view of a frantic single mother, and how it was a blessing to her that so many people took her and her child in.

        Have you tried hanging out on Street Prophets? I don't usually read there, but you might find some pointers there to a church in your area that would suit.

        by shenanigans on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:38:05 PM PDT

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      • Underneath 'bright and shiny'... (0 / 0)

        I think sometimes in our effort to put on a happy face, we sometimes gloss over the not so shiny pieces of life.  Or, we do it simply because it hurts to dwell on heartache and sadness.

        This may seem off topic, but we've had a lot of family turmoil recently that seems to be due to feelings of envy and jealousy toward our young daughters (and third child on the way).  The ironic part of it is how difficult creating family has been for us -- we lost a baby shortly after his preterm birth, had a very difficult pregnancy with our oldest daughter, and then went through an involved adoption process with our youngest daughter.  My BIL & SIL don't seem to see any of that, though, and instead focus only on the here and now of our lives, which are quite happy.

        I guess I just wonder if the church you went to might actually be fine after a bit.  I'd be surprised if many of the people attending didn't have their own heartaches that they might be keeping slightly below the surface.

        Best wishes on finding your way!

        by Anu on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 03:51:11 PM PDT

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        • Your comment strikes a chord with (0 / 0)

          me just in general.  It's curious when people create their own version of someone else's reality and especially when it only illuminates the good stuff.  Life seems to always be in continuous transformation of small and big events, highs and lows, good and bad.  It is difficult to know what to do when others put this mantle of only good things happening onto someone else's life.

          I share that experience in that right this moment our family is well and doesn't have any great upsets....but our history is anything but perfectly rosy.  Only just last year we weathered our DIL (who at the time was 36) being diagnosed with cancer, she herself a mother of two very young daughters.  Before that my dh was diagnosed with Crohns disease and before that both of my parents were ill with cancer and my Mom died.  In between we've raised two children, we share relationships with my husband's two older sons with families of their own and all that means in terms of navigating human relationships.  Yes, we have had lots of blessings -- it is also true that we have worked hard, and have had our share of disappointments and heartaches, but often those details get blocked out in the interpreting of where we are right this minute especially when someone feels envy or jealousy.  Their focus is then turned on high-beam towards what they are wanting without seeing what it actually took to get to that particular place.

          Sheesh....I guess your comment really resonated with me.  I definitely can think of a few people in my life who see only what I have that they want rather than my life as a continuum which is made up of millions of moments and experiences.

          Well, I'm glad for you that your family is in a good place and wish you luck with how others perceive that.

          karen

          by karen m on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 08:02:40 PM PDT

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          • It really is a bit odd... (0 / 0)

            We've settled in and aren't so shocked by their behavior, but it really was quite strange.  Oh well - such is life!  Interesting to hear that we aren't alone...

            by Anu on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 07:35:22 AM PDT

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    • Great food for thought (0 / 0)

      I am guilty of needing the place we go to worship "perfect"... and it always sets me up for disappointment.  

      I'm happy until I hear something in the sermon that I disagree with or read something in the bulletin.  Maybe me New Year's resolution should be to be more relaxed about my standards.  

      I especially like your analogy to political candidates.  It's not about settling, it's about finding a place where you feel comfortable.  

      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

      by 1plain1peanut on Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 04:09:50 PM PDT

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