Mother Talkers

"Birds, Bees and Jamie Lynn"

by tessajp

Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 03:55:18 AM PDT

I wanted to share this wonderfully thought provoking op-ed piece from WaPo with the Mothertalkers, since we were discussing Jamie Lynn Spears.

Learning From Jamie Lynn and Juno

Ruth Marcus offers a measured, rational response to the whole mess.  I really liked her approach, and the way she thought it through.

Okay, Teachable Moment Alert. But what, exactly, to teach?

Mom: So, what do you think the lesson is here?

Ten-year-old Julia, brightly: Don't have sex until you get married!

Uh, um, is that the lesson? Did I hear Daddy's car in the driveway? Anybody want more peas?

I'm sure this is exactly the message many parents jumped to if they discussed Jamie Lynn with their kids at all.  But as Marcus points out, how realistic is it?  Do I really expect my daughter to wait until marriage?  I didn't.  I didn't have sex in high school, but I didn't wait until marriage.    I don't want my daughter having sex in high school, certainly, but that's because I don't think high schoolers are ready for the complications of sex--pregnancy or other.  I certainly wouldn't have been.  But I don't want to set unattainable expectations either.

Marcus' basic point boils down to this:

And so the message I choose from Spears's pregnancy--and the one, once I recovered my composure, I ultimately delivered, is this: It could happen to you--even if you're the kind of "conscientious" girl who, as Jamie Lynn's mother described her, is never late for curfew. And so, whenever you choose to have sex, unless you are ready to have a baby, don't do it without contraception.

Such a sane, rational response.  Sigh.  Its good to see.

Tags: Jamie Lynn Spears, teen pregnancy (all tags)

Permalink | 25 comments

  • Yep (0 / 0)

    That's the message!  Wait as long as possible too, but if you do, be careful.

    by NJmom on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 04:53:41 AM PDT

  • Good lesson, (0 / 0)

    Much more realistic and appropriate than the knee-jerk reaction of criticizing the family.

    by tarantula on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 08:21:46 AM PDT

  • here's what dunlap and jackie broyles say (0 / 0)

    i know it's not the least bit helpful, but

    redstateupdate.com

    has a silly (and a little rude) video

    by thankgodforairamerica on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 09:13:35 AM PDT

  • I don't even consider (0 / 0)

    teaching my son that it's best to wait until marriage. What, I want him getting married when he's 19 or 20 so that he can have sex, or not having an intimate relationship until he is 38 (my age when I married), or even 29 or 30? These are not very attractive choices, imo.

    I definitely don't want him to have sex in high school, and will focus on on contraception and the assumption that if that's not taken care of, he will become a father whether he is ready or not.

    by RachelD on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 11:23:31 AM PDT

    • Totally agree (0 / 0)

      I read this columnin the Sac Bee recently and thought the author, National Review-ite Kathryn Jean Lopez (who is, by the way, apparently younger than we are), was nuts.

      Now, be honest: If your child told you, "I'm not having sex until I'm married," wouldn't you be relieved?

      Um, no.  I don't want either of them getting married around age 20 or earlier, nor do I see a reason why they should wait until 25-35 or older.  She describes people who want their kids to wait until marriage as "sensible" - well, I guess that's a matter of opinion.  

      I guess I'm just part of the reality-based community on this issue.

      Katherine

      by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 01:19:13 PM PDT

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      • I'd think he was crazy (0 / 0)

        If DS said that, I'd think he'd taken a crazy pill. I beleive you should know as much as possible about a person before making a lifetime commitment with them, and not get married for reasons like: to escape your family, for financial security, because everyone else is, because you're afraid of being alone, or because you want to have state-sanctioned sex.

        I will teach him about contraception when the time comes and advise him to use it.

        by minnmom on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 08:51:38 AM PDT

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    • I agree. (0 / 0)

      Good way to put it.

      by NJmom on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 01:27:09 PM PDT

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    • I agree (0 / 0)

      I also plan to add (in addition to contraception) that anyone you have sex with may be part of your life forever - even the most careful get pregnant, and there's a certain emotional connection to any partner (positive or negative, happiness, sadness, embarrassment) regardless.

      So, take a look at this potential partner, critically: are you really ready to deal with this person for the rest of your life, if that's how it turns out? Can you live with him, can you work out child custody with him, can you avoid him, can you make your peace?

      by shenanigans on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 01:38:32 PM PDT

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      • Not necessarily.. (0 / 0)

        there's a certain emotional connection to any partner (positive or negative, happiness, sadness, embarrassment) regardless.

        But there probably ought to be. I certainly know those who had partners who were out the door and forgotten the next morning. Nope, no connection there, none. That sex had no emotional consequences for them. But I always thought those acts were pretty reprehensible, because I also knew someone who was one of those who were out the door the next morning. She was a terribly damaged person, and while the temporary connection probably did something for her at the time, in the long run it just made her self-esteem worse, a lot worse, and I know a lot of the time she felt like her humanity was worth less to other people than her breasts.
        You can absolutely have sexual experiences without any emotional consequences to yourself, if that's what you want to go after. But you don't know where the other person is if you do so, and you don't know how much damage you'll leave behind. It's not the way I'd want any child of me to act toward another human being.
        I think that's important to explain, too - that you need to take account of the other person, and to be able to do that at all, you have to have some familiarity with them.

        "You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd."

        by Expat Briton on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 01:54:49 PM PDT

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        • I love this. (0 / 0)

          I've always envisioned explaining to a son not to take advantage of a girl, but for some reason your comment made me realize that a girl needs to keep this in mind, too.  An excellent point to make during THE TALK.  

          by tessajp on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 05:31:24 PM PDT

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          • i love it too (0 / 0)

            i'm going to have my son read this thread

            we don't talk about sex as much as we used to when he was younger (he's 14 now)

            i used to answer every single question he asked me honestly, even if it grossed him out.  i still do, but he doesn't ask me much any more.

            shortly after my 2nd husband and my son met (when my son was 8) probably not the same day, but within days or weeks of their first meeting, my son saw something on tv- i guess on a commercial, and came into the kitchen to ask me what it meant-

            he said "mom, what's a vaginal infection?"  and i explained it as best as i could.  he then said "eww,"  and turned to gregg and said "you have a vagina!"  and walked out.

            the last time we talked about sex was when he snuck out of the house in the middle of the night and a police officer saw him riding his bike at 3 in the morning and brought him home- i told him about shawn hornbeck being tied to a bed and anally raped for a month when he was kidnapped.

            so i think we're due for a normal conversation about sex.

            by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 04:40:00 AM PDT

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        • I agree but (0 / 0)

          No matter how careful you are, there's always the risk of a pregnancy or a disease, and then you really are stuck with that person in your head one way or another forever. That's part of what I'd like to convey.

          Also - it's a small world. You sure don't want to damage other people, especially if you can't avoid them in the future.

          by shenanigans on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 09:26:11 PM PDT

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          • I like this (0 / 0)

            It's an interesting and true way to think about it: that person is "stuck in your head", or part of your memory, for good or ill, no matter what happens. I'm stealing this idea. I've never heard it expressed that way.

            by RachelD on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 07:27:35 AM PDT

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  • We were just talking about this (0 / 0)

    We recently saw Juno and ended up discussing how to approach discussions about sex and contraception as our young kids get older.  My husband and I were both sexually active in high school (with each other), and our parents seemed to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.  Even though I'm pretty sure they suspected, neither set of parents ever brought up the issue, which I think was pretty wimpy of them.  

    We definitely plan to push the contraception thing at our house.  With two boys, I'm thinking we'll buy condoms in bulk and stock them in the bathroom.  Even if they're not using them, they can pass them on to friends (or tell us they are if they're disappearing).  If I had daughters, I'd encourage them to go on the pill as soon as I suspected there was a chance they'd become sexually active soon.  I wish someone had asked me in high school if I wanted to go on the pill.

    I also don't want them to think that I expect them or want them to have sex, and we'll definitely encourage them to wait, but I think it's important to prioritize safe sex.

    My husband and I had a frightening "what if" conversation, wondering what our lives would be like now if I got pregnant in high school (since we weren't always 100% safe).  I'm not sure whether I would have aborted, but either way, it would have had a huge impact on our lives.

    by Treena on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 11:47:43 AM PDT

  • since I don't buy the argument (0 / 0)

    that teaching about contraceptives and consequences of sex equals giving permission to have sex, I have no problems teaching (and having Jess taught) sex ed. I'm certainly not going to do the whole "wait until you're married" bit.

    by Rachel on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 03:11:12 PM PDT

    • I find the term .... (0 / 0)

      "giving permission to have sex" funny.

      What teenager ever waits to have permission to have sex?  Either by teaching about condoms or saying, "It's OK to have sex"?  We all know that if not taught to use condoms or even talking about sex makes teenagers NOT have sex.  (If only it were that easy!)

      You are 100% correct, Rachel.

      by Shell on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 03:56:44 PM PDT

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    • We've always talked about birth control. (0 / 0)

      Much in the same way we talk about taking an aspirin to get rid of a headache or an anti-histamine to deflect an allergic reaction.  We were very open.  I will add that so far, none of my kids became sexually active until the age of 18 and of those three that have, they've all been with only one partner.  Such talk didn't turn them into wild children who were out trolling the streets and bars.

      by tjb22 on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 06:11:38 PM PDT

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  • I'll teach my daughter about condoms not the pill (0 / 0)

    for four reasons: 1) if the boy/man isn't willing to wear a condom, then she shouldn't be having sex with him; 2) the pill doesn't protect against STDs (I know a condom doesn't protect against all of them and isn't 100% effective) and if you're a teenager and don't have to worry about getting pregnant because you're on the pill, you're less likely to care about some remote sounding STD; 3) teenagers go in and out of relationships fast, so either you're on the pill constantly from a very young age or you're going on and off it constantly, which doesn't off much protection and you have to wait for it to kick in; and 4) you have to remember to take the pill every day and NO WAY am I reminding her ("do you have your lunch? sunblock? pill?).

    by LawyerMom on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 03:19:08 PM PDT

    • Oooo, good points. (0 / 0)

      You're right; I hadn't thought about the reminding about the pill.  The STD thing, yes, I had thought about.  But your other points are good ones, too!

      by tessajp on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 05:12:13 PM PDT

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    • I agree. (0 / 0)

      I've often said that a man/boy who is too irresponsible to carry his own condoms is too irresponsible and stupid to have sex with.  I've said it often enough that my daughters picked up on it and my sons know that using them is expected when they are sexually active.  

      None of my kids had sex before the age of 18.  Two of my daughters did go on birth control pills when they became involved is serious relationships.  Condoms AND birth control pills used together even makes sense...I would certainly tell my sons to continue using condoms even though a girlfriend is on the pill...not only does it reduce the possibility of disease transmission, it gives them a feeling of also playing a responsible role in preventing pregnancy.

      by tjb22 on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 06:08:47 PM PDT

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    • So, what about once she's committed? (0 / 0)

      Remember, sexual education isn't just for the teenage years, it's for a lifetime.

      You don't have to choose them for now, but you might want to teach her about them.

      by shenanigans on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 09:23:22 PM PDT

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      • How true (0 / 0)

        sexual education isn't just for the teenage years, it's for a lifetime.

        So true, and that is what I always think about when people argue that children should only be taught abstinence in school, should not learn about birth control, etc. Even if your goal is for your child to wait until marriage to have sex, they will still need to know this info then.

        by Lisa in Austin on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 07:34:20 AM PDT

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      • Right (0 / 0)

        and I don't know why people think all (or even most) teenagers have lots of relationships.  There are still plenty of us making commitments that end in marriage, or last until college, or whatever.

        by lonespark on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 07:34:26 AM PDT

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        • Certainly the case with my children. (0 / 0)

          Not a one of them has been sexually active outside of their long term relationships.  In fact, they were looking and waiting for such relationships...and they aren't alone.  Many of their peers are doing the same.  They just need to postpone pregnancy until the the present day demands of education are complete and they are in a financial position to start families.  

          by tjb22 on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 09:24:59 PM PDT

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Permalink | 25 comments