Mother Talkers

Sharing Custody

by Inky

Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 11:18:06 AM PDT

This was my first Christmas of really sharing custody of my dear 3 year old son with my ex husband.  We have been separated for a year and a half (last year we still lived in the same house...complicated...) and I am trying really, really hard to be friendly.  To the point where I invited my ex to spend Christmas morning at my house, along with my parents and my amazing fiance.  I was trying to make sure that the ex got to see the "Santa moment", and that my son had everyone there on Christmas morning.  

The ex showed up half an hour late (luckily ds was still sleeping), and was relatively friendly all morning until it was time to leave.  Naturally, DS didn't want to leave his new toys.  Ex makes the sarcastic comment that "This is exactly what I was trying to avoid in the first place." Excuse me?  Then I guess you could have just stayed at home and not fought me about this.

See, he wanted to have him Christmas morning, even though he has NO family here and I do.  So I suggested my compromise that he come over, then take DS for a bit on Christmas Day.  He agreed at the time, and I thought it was all worked out.  But now it is sliding downhill so fast I don't know what to do....

I ended up hurrying DS out the door a bit, thinking that he needed to go spend some time with Dad so he could get back at a decent hour and play for awhile before bed.  I promised him he could play when he came home.  Now, I had given Ex the option of keeping him until Wednesday afternoon when he goes to work and taking him to Fiance's house (I am working, Fiance is off today) or bringing him home before bedtime Christmas night.  He chose to bring him back Christmas night.  So he said.

Last night 8:30 rolled around and no phone call.  We started texting Ex.  He says that he is going to being him back Wednesday afternoon.  Trying VERY hard to be Zen, I asked if he wanted directions to my Fiance's.  He called.  I calmly explained to him that I found it rude that he decided to change the plans abruptly without discussing it with me, and that I wanted to avoid future miscommunications.  Then I talked to my mom.

Apparently, he called them at 6:30 while they were driving to my sisters house 5 hours away.  At that time, he said that DS had been "driving him crazy all day wanting to go home and play with his toys" and that he was now asleep and that Ex was going to call me and ask if he could stay the night.  That call never came, obviously.  My mom also told me how she and my father are upset about Ex saying to them recently, in a spiteful tone, that he hoped I realized that next year he would have DS for the whole Christmas holiday and I wouldn't get him at all.  I burst into tears. (Note: The custody arrangement says that each parent gets him every other holiday, but doesn't give specific times or dates)

My parents keep DS every day while I am working during the days I have custody, and the evenings while Ex is working during his custody time.  I am the primary custodian.  Ex ends up leaving DS there almost every weekend he has him, claiming work.  My parents are wonderful, loving people who still do things for Ex like help him fix his car, loan him tools, and got him several Christmas gifts.  He didn't get them so much as a thank you card.  But that's not all that shocking, since my mom told me that he didn't get his son anything.  Not a single Christmas present.  Said he "didn't have the money".  Which is BS.  He makes plenty, he just didn't think about/prioritize buying DS a gift.  So no wonder DS was so upset over there.  My fiance was so upset by this that he wants to tell my parents that if Ex ever says that again, they should tell him and he will give Ex money for gifts, so that DS doesn't have to go through that. I don't even know what to think about it.  It's despicable that Ex acted that way.  Taking DS away from his extended family, toys, and special dinner, to be alone in a house with no toys (he hardly keeps anything there for him), no family and no special food.

But it gets better.  Ex's family celebrates Christmas over New Year's weekend.  Which happens to be my weekend for custody.  Once in mid November, when we were working out Christmas day, he mentioned that to me in passing.  He hasn't said a word since.  He keeps telling my parents how he is going to be taking him down there on Saturday and coming back on Tuesday.  When he dropped DS off today he said "See you Saturday" and ran off before Fiance could say anything about it.  But not once has he spoken to me about the logistics of this, asking if he can have him this weekend, or what time he can pick him up.  He has had every opportunity, and obviously just doesn't plan on doing it.  I can only imagine that he just thinks he will call on Saturday morning and say he is on his way.

So I am in the uncomfortable position of on one hand wanting DS to have the chance to go (even if Ex's family treat both DS and I like crap, they are his family and he loves his cousins), and on the other hand, I need to set boundaries with the Ex and let him know that this is not okay.  He cannot do this, just randomly taking him whenever he wants (and dumping him off when he wants).  I want to do what's best for my son.  And I have been trying so incredibly hard to be nice to my Ex and work everything out for the sake of my son.  But he refuses to work with me, even a little bit.  So I don't know what to do.  Let him go or cause a huge fight because of the principle of the matter.  If I don't let him go, Ex will act even more childish and mean.  If I do, I am essentially telling Ex that he doesn't have to play nice, or be respectful or courteous, or do what's best for DS.  I will likely lose any chance of working out amicable arrangements so I can see DS next Christmas (although apparently Ex is planning to keep him from me anyway).  To top it all off, I really need to spend time moving next weekend, so it wouldn't be horrible if DS wasn't there, but then Ex will have him 3 weekends in a row.

I am incredibly upset by this whole situation and have absolutely NO IDEA what to do at this point.  I just don't understand why, when I have bent over backwards to be nice and to make this all work, he can't just have common courtesy.  

Has anyone else ever been in a similar situation?  Any sage advice for me?  What would YOU do?

Tags: custody, Christmas, ex husband, New Years, divorce (all tags)

Permalink | 44 comments

  • Communication between you and Ex only (0 / 0)

    Ugh, what a tough situation. Good for you for inviting him over for the holiday. In your shoes I would let him go with Ex to his family's Christmas. For a couple of reasons: one, your ds loves his cousins, and this is his chance to see them. Also, if his family celebrates Christmas on New Year's, I think this is your built in solution. You get ds on regular Christmas, and ds gets him on his family's Christmas. I would propose this to your Ex as your solution for next year, and see what he thinks.

    I would ignore stuff he said about next year to your parents. Tell him he can come over to your place on Christmas next year, too, which would diffuse the power struggle aspect.  I think he had nothing in the house because he does Christmas on New Year's, and he may be overwhelmed by doing all of this as a single father for the first time? And feeling angry about it all possibly. He was friendly until he had to leave, which is a clue I think.

    Speaking of which ... he seems to communicate with your parents and your fiance, but not you directly. Enlist your parents and fiance to stay as polite and warm as possible, but to say also that he needs to take that up with you directly - or whatever company line you want. But no more communication through others. That can't help.

    It's your first holiday season as a divorced couple, that can't be easy. Unless your Ex has a really mean streak, which I don't hear you saying, it's likely things will get smoother. There are also therapists who work specifically with divorced couples on co-parenting plans. You could see one together for a brief number of sessions just to talk about Christmas - not rehash your whole relationship, just Christmas, because it can be a hot button.

    I guess, too, I would remind myself not to panic that next year will be as hard. Next year is a long way off. Sorry for all the advice talk, but these are the things I would try.

    by RachelD on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 11:58:12 AM PDT

  • I remember these days (0 / 0)

    And I don't envy you at all.  It is such a difficult juggling act to balance children's needs and the need to set healthy boundaries and have them respected.

    My daughter was 16 months when I separated with her dad so I can relate  Unfortunately when we have kids with someone we are always going to have some sort of relationship with them!

    My advice is to re-write your parenting plan so that it includes specific times and locations for drop off.  Mine was very detailed, also talked about consumption of drugs and alcohol by parents when with kids, sleeping arrangements that needed to be provided, including the stipluation that the child not be allowed to sleep with any other adults, i.e. guests of the parent!

    It is better to have everything spelled out in a legal document.  If you and your ex go through periods where you can negotiate and are on the same terms great, if not at least you have it in black and white and can take him back to court if necessary.

    "In the face of impossible odds, people who love their country can change it."--Barack Obama

    by heathennextdoor on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 12:06:05 PM PDT

  • tough situation (0 / 0)

    Luckily, for you holidays are almost over.  Take a deep breath, and get through this year.

    I would let son go to ex-inlaws for New Years, then establish THIS as precedent:

    You and your family has him for Christmas, ex and his family has him for New Year

    My guess is that as the years go by, your ex will have less and less interest.  If he gets a new girlfriend, you won't see much of him at all

    Earth Friendly Shopping
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    by Caldreaming on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 03:21:50 PM PDT

  • I don't have any advice (0 / 0)

    but do send you my cyber support --- there probably isn't much that has the potential of being so difficult.  The holiday time I'm sure makes everything even trickier.

    Good luck - and if I have any thoughts at all, it's do what you think is really in the best interest of your child.  I think children are the ones who really suffer these situations even more than the adults.

    karen

    by karen m on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 04:43:37 PM PDT

  • i'm so sorry (0 / 0)

    my ex husband and i split up when our son was 7 months old (he's now 14 years old)

    if things are this much of a mess, it might be best if it's always handled through your lawyer- it seems like he won't listen to what you say or do what he says he will do

    the problem w/

    by thankgodforairamerica on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 04:48:32 PM PDT

    • don't know how that happened- oops (0 / 0)

      that is it will be very expensive for a while.  but on my own i was able to file a motion for contempt, and it didn't cost anything-

      i honestly can't remember if it was my lawyer or not who told me that when a couple splits up, you can't expect any problems they already had communicating to suddenly go away-

      i don't think things are going to get easier any time soon.

      i don't think a judge is going to modify the arrangement you already have regarding alternate holidays unless both parties are in agreement, and i don't think you and your ex are going to be in agreement.

      so maybe you can just prepare yourself for next year and have a really wonderful christmas eve or something?

      i just cave in for the peace of it now- my son spent xmas at his dad's again- he spends weekdays w/ me and weekends and most school holidays w/ his dad.  summers i'm flexible- usually he spends each weekend w/ his dad

      my ex is an absolute creep, but he tries to be a good dad, adn i don't want my son to ever be able to say i interfered w/ his relationship w/ his dad, so i just put up w/ a lot and remind myself it's only for 18 years

      but it has evolved to this point after a lot of time, and a lot of drama

      i think you and i might have divorced the same guy

      by thankgodforairamerica on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 05:02:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • ugh (0 / 0)

    sounds really stressful, inky. sorry to hear you're having to deal with this. not sure i can add anything  more to the advice that's already been given. it does sound like some clear boundaries around what's expected and how to communicate might help. good luck.

    by Stacey on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 07:23:22 PM PDT

  • asdf (0 / 0)

    Shared parenting plans can be wonderful or a curse it all depends on the parents.
    Welcome to the world of Tue Turkey Day and Christmas that runs anywhere from December 21 through December 31.
    Take a deep breath..........Ahhh a bit better now.
    Start planning for next Christmas now. It is a bit early I know but you will be the better for having a plan in place.
    If your Ex is going to have your child for X-mas next year then just move X-mas. This will save your sanity, allow you to enjoy your family holiday and set an example to your son that X-mas is family not a calender date. (BTW probably should not tell your EX about moving the day you celebrate if he is an ASS).
    I was a single parent and currently have grandkids with an assortment of parents, step-parents and too many grand-parents of many types to count. We celebrate on a day when my daughter will have the kids (and never on thanksgiving day, I shop then).
    My I suggest that in about 6 months you start being a bit firm about your parenting plan and the pick-up/drop-off times and days. If you need to go back and have it firmed up by the arbitrator/judge then it is probably worth it.
    Also after a few months or when your son starts school you might encourage your parents to not be so helpful to him.
    This all passes after awhile and your son will turn out great and he will remember the happy times and that you never made a big deal of any blimps during the Holidays.

    by JRH on Wed Dec 26, 2007 at 08:39:14 PM PDT

  • Been there too (0 / 0)

    With small children, I think it's extremely difficult to share Christmas.  They can't understand why they have to go and leave most of their new stuff behind. It gets easier when they get older, but as my 15 year old just told me, "it still sucks".

    My ex was very difficult.  In the end, we wound up with a very specific custody order, with times and dates and behavior restrictions for dad (no drinking, no drugs, no spanking, no smoking), which makes it very easy to deal with him.  We can change things on our own if we agree, but if he starts playing games, I just say "I can get out the order and we can just go with what that says" and he calms down and gets more reasonable.  And time and AA have curbed a lot of his worst behavior.

    For Christmas, we go with the same schedule every year so that both parents can develop some traditions and the kids know what to expect every year (they're 12 and 15 now, but we split up when they were 2 and 4 1/2).  I took Christmas eve (we celebrate with my family then) to noon on Christmas day (in part because of his tendency to try to make everyone feel bad when they left, not something I think should be part of anyone's holiday), and he took Christmas day overnight to the 26th.  It's been the best solution for all of us. He has the extra time to get ready, the kids are fresh for getting together with my family (he has none in the area), and of course, I like the relaxing afternoon on Christmas day after everyone leaves.

    ps- if your ex stresses out your holiday, don't bother inviting him to spend it with you.  It's your holiday too, you should enjoy it, and you don't need to be a martyr.

    by CeeGee on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 04:04:19 AM PDT

    • transitions can be so hard on kids (0 / 0)

      so i love that you do this:

      For Christmas, we go with the same schedule every year so that both parents can develop some traditions and the kids know what to expect every year

      knowing exactly when the transition will be must get rid of so much stress on the kids- it's so good you do that

      a few years ago when friends of mine split up the court had me be the person who supervised the dad's visitation w/ his kids (totally unnecessary, but my former friend had been making up accusations of molestation)

      every visitation schedule the mom came up w/ had crazy transitions which were impossible to keep track of- different places, days, times, from different people, etc.  when i talked to the kids' guardian ad litem (don't even know how you spell that) about one of the proposed schedules because i was upset for the kids, she told me she'd never let it happen- too many transitions for the kids.

      my son just counts it as a given he will spend holidays and long school weekends w/ his dad- the bonding w/ my side of the family is usually not on a traditional holiday- like he goes to notre dame football games w/ my dad and his uncles and spends long weekends w/ them in south bend (and misses a little school)

      by thankgodforairamerica on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 05:20:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Thank you all (0 / 0)

    So much for helping me with this.  Knowing that I'm not the only one helps a lot.  I love the idea of doing the same schedule every year for traditions with each family.  I am totally okay with him taking him every New Year's weekend for his family's Christmas, but he is irrational and apparently wants every New Years and every other Christmas.  I realized this morning that of the last 6 "major" holidays (to us), Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years, he has had him to himself the entire time for three of them, and has been with him part of the time on the other three and I haven't had him alone once.

    A long talk with my brother helped me with remembering to be firm but calm; and my fiance has reiterated that.  I am going to let DS go for New Year's, but am going to insist that Ex and I have a private conversation before then.  I will lay out my position and expectations, and if he starts to get angry, I will calmly tell him that if we cannot work it out for ourselves, we can take it back to court.  And that will be the end of the discussion.

    I thought that my efforts to be nice would have an affect on him and he would start to do the same; you know, we both have to give a little and meet in the middle.  I was wrong.  So if it has to be that we go back to court and get a very detailed parenting plan, so be it.  I'm tired of being taken advantage of (umm...isn't that part of why I divorced him in the first place???).

    My fiance has been wonderful through all of this, helping me to remember how important it is to be calm and firm, and also assuring me that if we have to, we will get a rather forceful attorney to help us, regardless of the cost.  I am so blessed to have his support, and that of my family, and on the MT boards.  I am trying to take deep breaths and remember that.  And remember that there's no point in getting upset; the courts are there to settle this sort of thing...

    by Inky on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 05:40:09 AM PDT

    • That's right; courts and direct communication (0 / 0)

      are the only real solutions.

      It's difficult, I know. Who likes this stuff? But the time and agony spent now will pay off later; take it from someone who is still paying for easy avoidance in previous years.

      by Rick Massimo on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 12:24:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • That sounds good (0 / 0)

      My family also established an every year tradition - Christmas Eve with dad's family - which was our traditional celebration anyway - Christmas Day with mom's. My parents stayed friendly enough that both sides were included in some times in some ways. It's good that your fiance is good with it - that can be a source of friction when the exes appear to get along too well.

      And since I was with Dad for xmas eve, then Mom could do her last minute shopping sans-child, so it worked out well for her too.

      I think it is really valuable to do it similarly each year - when our traditions were later disrupted by deaths, it felt very empty and adrift to me for some time.

      Good luck, and I totally agree that firm, unruffled, and "If we need the lawyers and the judge, I'm game" is just the right way to go about it.

      by shenanigans on Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 01:51:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • you are so right (0 / 0)

        I totally agree that firm, unruffled, and "If we need the lawyers and the judge, I'm game" is just the right way to go about it.

        for years and years my ex would threaten me w/ taking me back to court to take away my son whenever he got mad at me.  

        finally i said "fine- let's go to court" instead of giving in, and you know what?  it never happened.

        inky's ex seems like a manipulative bully- when she stands up for herself and forces him to go to court i doubt he'll want to go- or that his lawyer will even want to go and embarass himself w/ flaky requests.

        by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 04:49:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • Update (0 / 0)

          He finally called and left a message yesterday TELLING me that he was taking DS early on Saturday.  After soul searching and talking with my mom, best friend, and fiance, (and learning new info from my mom) I decided that I had to put my foot down and stop this manipulation by him.  AirAmerica is right, he IS a bully, and I finally realize that I don't have to take that anymore.

          I have nothing to lose, they are never going to take DS away from me (I may doubt myself about many things in life, but the one thing I know I'm good at is being my son's mother).  And the only thing I had to gain was some cooperation from Ex.  He's had so many chances to cooperate, and refuses, that I don't think letting him have his way this time will change much.

          I texted him after the call and said "We never discussed this.  This weekend is my weekend (including Monday) and Tuesday is my holiday".  His ridiculous response was "I was hoping to appeal to your sense of fair play.  I didn't have to let you have him on Xmas Eve.  Shall I consider this as you firing the first shot?".  My calm response was "First shot at what?  We agreed to share Christmas weeks ago.  We haven't discussed anything about this weekend."

          Doing the math, he had sole custody 26 hours of the Christmas holiday, and was with him for another 3.5 at my house.  Hmmm...that sounds pretty much like he had him on Christmas to me.

          It took hearing my DS tell me that he was sad because he didn't have any presents or toys at Daddy's house, and that Daddy got mad at him for that, before I realized that Ex is trying to use my DS as a weapon against me.  And that is unacceptable.

          Thanks you, MTs, for letting me get this all out in written form.  I have never in my life felt calmer in a disagreement with ex; and I attribute part of it to maturity, and part of it to being able to write it out and know that kind, thoughful strangers are there to give advice.

          by Inky on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 06:14:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • Oh boy; "The first shot." (0 / 0)

            That's nothing but emotional baiting; you replied a lot better than I would have.

            It's a sign he knows he's got nothing. Stay strong.

            by Rick Massimo on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 08:46:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          • it's nice of you to live near enough to him (0 / 0)

            to make regular visitation so easy

            so i'd be a little annoyed by him saying

            "I was hoping to appeal to your sense of fair play.

            on top of how annoyed i'd be that he thinks it's a game.

            it really is true- out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (that's from the bible, but i don't know which chapter or verse off hand)

            i imagine his attorney would also have to be involved in any modification.  and i wouldn't be surprised if after your ex agrees w/ you on a parenting plan, he and his lawyer then disagree-

            also, it's really nice of your parents to be so involved and helpful- i know mine would never have had the stomach for it.  and they would have passed on helping w/ regular child care, too.

            hang in there- it really will get better, especially when your son is older.

            xoxo

            by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 12:37:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        • Same here. (0 / 0)

          My ex is always talking menacingly about "going back to court" and runs like a vampire from the dawn whenever I say "fine with me."

          by Rick Massimo on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 08:48:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • LOL! Update2 (0 / 0)

            runs like a vampire from the dawn whenever I say "fine with me."

            Haha!  I love that line!

            He texted me with a "please".  I agreed to let him go on the condition that we meet, along with my parents (neutral party), tomorrow morning to work out a detailed parenting plan.  He agreed.

            Anyone have advice on what all should go in it?  I have a lot already, but more is better.  And does anyone know, after we do this, is it basically a simple matter of me getting my attorney to take it to the court and have it made an addendum to the final decree?

            by Inky on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 09:51:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            • A neutral party (0 / 0)

              Oh, Inky, please consider the implications of having your parents serve as the neutral party. Are they responsible for helping you and your ex negotiate and make decisions? Most parents couldn't help but feel more aligned with their own kid.

              If they are there just to keep the emotional temperature in the room at moderate, it could work, but oh boy, it seems pretty risky. It seems like when it comes to something as personal as a co-parenting plan with your boy's father, parents are best out of the equation. Yikes, what if their role in child care and holidays comes up, are they expected to be totally neutral about that?

              Maybe your lawyer knows somebody - professional mediator, therapist or counselor - who could do this for you, and then your question about what to do with the agreements would be answered also.

              This sounds really bossy, I totally apologize for that ...

              by RachelD on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 12:33:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              • Don't apologize, it's a totally valid issue! (0 / 0)

                They are involved in this first step for a variety of reasons.  Partly, it is to help avoid temper flare ups.  But aside from that, the reasons include: both Ex and I value their opinions and judgements, they are DS's regular caregivers (since they keep him for both of us while working), and as far as their neutrality...well, they are so neutral that it often makes me mad (but then I calm down and see that they are making a valid point about what's best for DS).  They have always, and still do, treat Ex better than his own parents.  And they are notorious for their even handedness among us all.  They absolutely want what's best for DS, and that is their main focus.  (Both of them have children from first marriages, and have a lot of experience with blended family relations).  Also, it's a matter of having to act right now, and they are available.  I doubt they will be giving too much input, but I think we both will be more likely to act in a calm and fair manner with them there.

                Ex and I shared an attorney for the divorce, as there wasn't much to fight over and finances were an issue.  He is still unable to afford an attorney on his own, and would balk if I suddenly insisted that he show up to the table with one, even if it was for his own benefit.  

                The first step in working out the plan has to be tomorrow before he leaves town.  I can read him like a book and know that if it doesn't happen now, it won't happen at all.  This is a guy who won't answer the phone when I call or return my phone calls, even if I am calling because DS is ill.

                So just to get the ball rolling and show him that I am serious about not being bossed about, we will do the preliminary work in the morning.  Then I will contact my attorney and see what I need to do from there.  If there are major impasses, we will definately get a mediator.  I'm probably being WAY too starry eyed in hoping that there actually won't be any issues that we can't resolve.  One of these days I will stop being so eternally hopeful....

                The second he starts to get ugly and won't stop.  I will calmly tell him that this is as far as we can go on our own, and I will contact a mediator next week.

                by Inky on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 01:46:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                • i wonder if he'll show up when he's supposed to (0 / 0)

                  or if he'll show up late so there's no time, and try to just rush away w/ your son

                  have you thought about what you'd do if that happened?

                  he does sound a bit passive-aggressive

                  by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 01:58:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                • you don't have to resolve this now- (0 / 0)

                  it just seems that way

                  I can read him like a book and know that if it doesn't happen now, it won't happen at all.

                  if he violates the terms of the decree, he is in contempt, and you can file a motion for contempt

                  i spent a decade trying to get my ex to honor one of the terms of our divorce- to maintain a $200,000 life insurance policy w/ our son as the beneficiary, and to have the insurance company send me a letter stating i would be notified if he failed to make a payment, so i could then make it.

                  i had let him slide on most of the financial stuff in the order- but this one was so easy to do- just pay for term insurance?  that's practically free it's so cheap, so i was upset he wouldn't do it.

                  i'm embarassed it took so long, but i finally got sick of the "you'll just have to take my word for it" nonsense and filed a motion for contempt.

                  he didn't show up to court, so the judge issued a warrant for his arrest.  (the really funny part is he had a policy all along- w/ me as the beneficiary- he was shocked when he got the paperwork and read it- he couldn't understand it.  but of course he forgot to change the beneficiary when we broke up- he's a disaster when it comes to the details of anything remotely important)

                  but i digress

                  if your ex tries to take your son, he is violating the order- you might agree and let him go, but tell him the next time it happens you will file a motion for contempt.  or tell him not to take your son, and if he does it anyway, don't call the police- just file a motion for contempt asap.

                  no need to get emotional and grab your son and start a tug of war- for your son's sake you would stay calm and protect him from any drama and then address things later without him seeing or experiencing any conflict.

                  here in connecticut there are no court fees in family court for contempt, and my income/assets are so low i didn't even have to pay the fee to have the papers served.

                  but i think it's hypocritical of me to recommend filing for contempt when it took me so long to do it myself.  but all of that time i was so broke and i thought i'd need a lawyer to do anything, so maybe i would have done it sooner if i had known.

                  anyway, it might seem like you need to resolve this all right now, but maybe you really don't.

                  hang in there.  and you should definitely talk to your lawyer before you take any advice from me- seriously!

                  by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 02:50:20 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  • i wrote that assuming he wouldn't show (0 / 0)

                    up in time to do the parenting agreement- but i didn't write that part down- sorry-

                    if he does show up and try then it wouldn't be fair to say no to him taking your son after you already said yes-

                    i don't know why i'm thinking he won't show up on time- i think i'm projecting my experiences w/ my ex onto you and your ex-

                    again, sorry

                    i really do hope he shows up and acts like an adult.

                    i don't want to be one of those people who tries to stir things up instead of calm them down.

                    what i really wanted to tell you is that it doesn't all have to be ironed out tomorrow morning, even though i really wish it could be-

                    hang in there

                    xoxo

                    by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 03:05:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    • Excellent Information! (0 / 0)

                      I had no idea I could (possibly) file a contempt motion on my own.  I will certainly have to keep that in mind (esp since he is supposed to have the house refinanced and my name off of it by 5 Feb and hasn't even started yet).  Wow.  That is such good advice.  Thank you.

                      I'm really frustrated with myself for not getting everything totally detailed in the original decree.  It's so incredibly vague that it's laughable in retrospect.  I think at the time I was so fed up with the fact it took me 18 months to get the divorce finalized that I didn't pay enough attention.  Tomorrow, I just want to let him know that a detailed plan is going to have to happen asap and we will have to stick to it.

                      After the advice I've gotten on here, I think we should just discuss and work out what we can, then take that to the mediator and go from there.  It's just that honestly, if I don't make it painfully clear to him that I am serious, and that all my "Ms Nice" has run out, he will continue to try and take advantage of me, use DS as a weapon, and be a jerk.

                      i don't know why i'm thinking he won't show up on time- i think i'm projecting my experiences w/ my ex onto you and your ex-

                      Um, yeah, maybe we did all marry the same guy?  I am totally expecting him to be late.  He has a 30 minute window after which all bets are off.  

                      by Inky on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 06:17:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      • when you do it yourself, it's called "pro se" (0 / 0)

                        i think if you can afford a good attorney it's better to  use one, but if you can't afford one and your only choice is to do it yourself or not do it at all, you have to do it yourself.

                        i live in ct, so i went to the state's website which had the downloadable forms

                        the people at the courthouse can't give you advice, but they can give you forms.  

                        and anything that's been filed w/ the court regarding your divorce you can get a copy of- but i remember having to pay for the copies

                        when i had problems w/ my ex not paying child support i went through child support enforcement, and that didn't cost me anything.  i hope you don't have a problem like that, though.

                        the lady who helped me w/ the child support told me a lot of lawyers who should just refer their potential clients to child support enforcement don't, and that really upset me

                        when he stopped paying child support i thought he was trying to antagonize me into stopping his visitation so he would have ammo against me, so of course i didn't interfere w/ visitation at all.

                        it's important for you to always do what's right, even when he doesn't.  besides having the peace of mind that comes w/ doing the right thing, you don't give him anything to ever use against you- in court, or in your son's memory

                        by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 06:54:34 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            • GET A MEDIATOR (0 / 0)

              do not put your parents in that position. our mediator hammered out our agreement and gave us great guidelines four years ago and it was the best $200 I ever spent.

              by MKatherine1966 on Fri Dec 28, 2007 at 01:06:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  • Consider a calendar software (0 / 0)

    I remember reading about some online program that you subscribe to that allows divorced parents to clearly communicate their plans for sharing custody of their children.  It seemed like a great way to have a neutral system and a place to record all the data.  I can't remember the name, of course.

    My husband and I have recently been playing with Google Calendar (which is free) and have moved all our family commitments onto that.  It's great because you can each have your own calendar and "share" with each other so that it's visible.  There are different levels of permission you can give to the people you share the calendar with.  I'm guessing you could use a similar system to work out shared custody arrangements, and then you could communicate through that.  It doesn't change the underlying communication issues, but at least you could have a place to record things when you have agreed to them so that it's clear when there's been (or hasn't been) an agreement.  Your parents could even be part of it if they help with childcare.

    by Treena on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 04:55:29 AM PDT

    • found it (0 / 0)

      Here's a link to a site that manages custody arrangements.  There are probably other options, and it seems interesting, but I'm so into Google Calendar right now and I think that would probably be sufficient (and free).

      Let us know how the conversation went.

      by Treena on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 03:54:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • Just want to second the call for a mediator (0 / 0)

    they tend to have more ideas of ways to work things out than I could ever come up with, the cost is relatively low, plus they leave your parents out of the picture, and your son doesn't have to be anywhere near the discussion while it takes place.  All good things, IMO.  And just be firm about what you want for your son.

    I can't believe your ex took him for the holiday but couldn't give him any presents.  I'm sorry, but what a turd.  If he celebrates on New Year's with his family and didn't have any Christmas plans, it should have been no big deal to let you have your son on December 25th.

    by CeeGee on Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 06:03:40 AM PDT

  • so what happened? n/t (0 / 0)

    by thankgodforairamerica on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:11:10 AM PDT

  • Post Conversation Update (0 / 0)

    Conversation went fine.  We were able to get a lot of things down on paper, including the agreement that for the next few years on holidays, I have DS up through Christmas afternoon, then he goes with his dad (only IF there is going to be a Christmas at Dad's house) and stays through New Years.  Our mediator will help to work out all the exact dates.  When DS is old enough to express his desires on the matter (maybe age 10 or so) we will go back to the table with a mediator and work out any necessary changes.

    The sad part is that he was obviously angry at DS for "having fits" on Christmas about wanting to play with his new toys, and he still doesn't understand why DS was sad and upset.  DS asked my mother on Friday "How come Santa came to Mommy's house, and Santa came to your house, but he didn't come to Daddy's house? Why did he forget?"  

    Ex uses strange logic.  Like "I know I've had him every holiday, and was with him all of Christmas Day, but you're trying to hijack Christmas."  And when asked about not getting presents, etc., he said "I just don't like buying or wrapping gifts."  Then 5 mins later says "I didn't get to do anything special with him for Christmas, like make cookies, because you  I had to take him to you at 1pm on Christmas Eve."  Huh? (He had him Dec 18th through the 24th).

    But I think it will all be okay.  I am going to contact a mediator this week, and hire a new attorney for myself.  The funniest thing is the next "battle" brewing.  The divorce decree states that he has 90 days to refinance the house, because he wanted to keep it.  He knew that would be in the decree since March 07. I told him months ago that I was not going to "give him more time".  He's not taken any steps towards refi; says he is putting it up for sale sometime in Jan and I will "just have to wait til it sells".  I swear, I am already looking forward to filing that contempt motion.  Because I'm not the same little person he thinks he can kick around.  Unlike when we were married, I know that I am worth something now.  I'm worth a lot, actually.

    Sorry for all the long posts and updates.  But MTs has really helped me with getting through this.  Thanks, everyone!

    by Inky on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 10:22:41 AM PDT

    • i'm glad it went ok (0 / 0)

      He's not taken any steps towards refi; says he is putting it up for sale sometime in Jan and I will "just have to wait til it sells".  

      i don't think the judge will agree with him.

      by thankgodforairamerica on Sun Dec 30, 2007 at 06:03:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Me either! (0 / 0)

        i don't think the judge will agree with him.

        I can't wait to hear the exchange that will happen in that courtroom.  :)  

        I prob sound like a bad person for being happy that this is going to happen; it's just that for all the things he did to me and to DS, he never once got so much as a stern lecture from anyone else, and so continues to think he can do whatever he wants.  I look forward to seeing him face a consequence for once in his life.  

        by Inky on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 05:40:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • i don't think the judge will like it that (0 / 0)

          your ex doesn't take the terms of the agreement seriously

          when my ex finally showed up at court (i phoned him and told him the judge said he would be placed under arrest if he didn't show up) the judge said to him "glad you could make it."

          men like your ex and mine think they're special, and the silly little rules the rest of us have to follow shouldn't apply to them.

          one thing that really helped me in dealing w/ my ex was when he found emails easier than phone calls- i was then able to follow the converstion better- when we talked the normal way i'd never be able to figure out what i had said to infuriate him- i'd go over it all in my head and not be able to figure it out

          now if i had said to him i only wanted to communicate in writing he never would have, i'm sure- it just worked out that since i don't have a cell phone emails were easier for him.

          when it was all in emails i could look at it and see there was nothing really i had said to provoke him- no threats, no demands, no insults- he would just go nuts if i didn't agree 100% w/ his flaky requests.  out of nowhere he'd say he was going to take me to court and there was no doubt in his or his attorney's mind the judge would have our son live w/ him and make me pay child support, blah, blah, blah

          i always spoke and wrote as though someone were listening in or reading what i was writing because i was pretty sure someone else always was.  but i think staying calm and reasonable only angered him more.

          and about this:

          I prob sound like a bad person for being happy that this is going to happen

          sometimes i find myself experiencing a little schadenfreude too- like the last time my ex husband fell way behind in the child support i was almost disappointed when he caught up and didn't have to face any consequences.  that was very juvenile of me, but i was happy he was experiencing financial difficulty after what he had put me through.  i know i should be a better person than that, but i'm not.  and i know it's better for my son if he has a dad who is affluent, but sometimes i get spiteful.  i'm working on it.

          by thankgodforairamerica on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 09:06:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          • We really did marry the same guy... (0 / 0)

            And I just want to say that on the 26th of December I celebrated the 11th year since the postman showed up to deliver the divorce papers to me demanding full custody of the children (whom my ex later referred to as 'just little bargaining chips')and no equitable distrbution of the assets, after he had agreed to wait until after the holidays and do a mediated, amicable divorce.

            I have never been happier or more successful than in the time since I left him, even though it was a 2-3 year battle to get away from him and his ugly mind games.  (And you aren't the only one who has felt a little financial schadenfreude...and I think it's okay to enjoy 10 minutes of that as long as you don't let it become your whole focus, btw.  We're only human.)

            Inky, as these things get more ironed out on paper, you will be so much happier, because your ex won't be able to play these games anymore.  And I can't wait to hear what the judge has to say to your ex about his thinking the house refinancing and settlement is optional.  ;)

            Hope you have a wonderful New Year's Eve!

            by CeeGee on Mon Dec 31, 2007 at 11:50:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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