Mother Talkers

Brilliant...with just a hint of Aspergers - Brief Update

Tue Nov 20, 2007 at 09:15:14 AM PDT

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at PhotobucketSo, last night was the BIG MEETING for my husband and I with the psychologist we hired to evaluate Miles. I guess you can tell by the title of this diary that we learned a bit more about the relative composition of Miles's eccentricities.

First, I have to say that I am relieved. For 2 1/2 years I've been trying to convince Miles's school that he wasn't your ordinary gifted kid and to request more stimulating content for him. I mean, the kid started reading hardcore non-fiction science books when he was three. He flits through museum exhibitions seemingly paying attention to nothing, and then recounts the entire content of the show to us later that day. At the Darwin exhibition at the Museum of Natural History last year, he walked up to the diorama and began pointing out the specimins without looking at the text panels. "Look Mommy! A Sally Light-foot crab! Look at that Blue-Footed Booby! Marine Iguanas, cool!" The grown-ups peered at the labels and shook their heads in wonder.

I could tell you (and probably have) a thousand of these stories, but his school would always push back with anecdotes about his behavior (he doesn't listen, he doesn't work well in groups) or concerns about his handwriting.

The principal and I are barely on speaking terms at this point.  The disdain with which she greeted my requests to have him tested was insulting. "We celebrate all of our students' many gifts," she'd say sweetly. When we finally told her we'd be having him independently evaluated, she remarked, "I'll be very interested to see the results," which sounded more like, "Oh, you'll find out he's not all that and a bag of chips you bragadocious pushy mother."

Well, guess what.  His verbal scores are nearly off the charts-- 99.8 and 99.9 percentiles.

Yet the process of evaluation itself was fraught with difficulties, as Miles refused to take some tests and buckled under the pressure of timed testing. In some cases, the variance in his scores was more than 45 points -- a kid with a 155 in spelling but a 97 in processing speed raises all sorts of red flags.  Further behavioral evaluations, including classroom observation, tended to reinforce concerns in the areas of "atypicality" and "withdrawal."

So, yes, he is "brilliant," according to the psychologist.  But there is the reality that there are important things that Miles is only average in-- processing speed, pragmatic thinking. And then there are the below average areas -- social skills (the dreaded group work), transitions, breaks with routine.

So this diagnosis makes great sense and it is one my husband and I look to with hope and optimism. The psychologist said that the school's evaluation of him was less outside the norm than our own parental evaluation. She believes this to mean that he works hard to "keep it together" at school, and this, she said, is a Very Good Thing.

Next steps are a final Asperger's inventory by the school and then a meeting with the teacher and administration -- a meeting where I am going to savor the moment that the doctor says to the principal, "Miles is brilliant....(with a hint of Asperger's)"

UPDATE: Just had to share that Miles came home with two project rubrics today that were outstanding.  First, he got full marks on his "character puppet" project, for which the children had to choose a literary character, make a puppet out of a paper towel roll and then answer questions about the book and the character which they had to affix to a piece of poster board.  Then they had to present the puppet and poster to the class.  Miles put his heart and soul into this project, choosing Harry Potter and The Order of The Phoenix for his book, and he got a perfect grade, and a "Super Job, Miles!" comment from his teacher.  Second, he got a 95% on a project he had to do with a partner on glaciers.  They lost 5 points on one of the questions, but otherwise again, full marks.  Most significantly, his teacher wrote a comment on the page congratulating him for working well with his teammate.

So, that all made us very happy indeed!  And he seemed very proud.  

Finally: THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR SWEET AND SUPPORTIVE WORDS TODAY!!!  This is the place I know I can come for friendship, support and great advice from some very amazing women.

Tags: Miles, Asperger's (all tags)

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  • Well, at least you're on the same (0 / 0)

    page with your school at this point.

    I have a son a lot like Miles.  He's in 8th grade now.  Back when he was starting school, there was little recognition of mild aspergers.  He initially did fairly well, but his first school only saw black and white...either you needed to be in a separate special ed class or you were entirely "normal".  Academically,  he functioned quite well, but he was very quiet, wouldn't speak out in class, etc., so the thought was that he must be cheating or having other kids do his papers.  He was in first grade!  Now, he's smart, but to be THAT smart at six  years old???  So, we transferred to another school.  He repeated first grade.  Academically kept up until about 4th grade when it became apparent his writing skills were way behind as well as his expressive abilities.  At that point, after testing, he was categorized as having a "processing deficit".  Within the next year, he'd always developed a health problem that was causing havoc with his attendance and his classroom performance.  We went through all of the proper channels at this school, but in the end, they just didn't get it.  I think they meant well, but my feeling is they were unwilling to provide the very simple kinds of help he needed.

    By seventh grade, he begged to go to another school, so we allowed him to transfer to the school his older brothers were attending.  More testing, and at this time, they were willing to take my suggestions.  He was given an alpha mate to reduce his need to write out all of his school work.  Overnight, his grades went up to the A-B range.  The school had offered him other academic assistance, but he didn't need it.  Something else also happened at this time...he entered puberty.  I've never heard anyone else talk about this before, but it really seemed that many of his "trouble" areas seemed to improve dramatically.  

    This year, he had to transfer to a new school yet again.  So far, so good...this school, however, is not challenging him very much.  He's making very good grades but is becoming bored.  One night he came home throwing a fit because the kids in his math class just couldn't understand intergers!  Socially, however, he continues to bloom.  He's had two girlfriends, he has his own little circle of friends at the school, etc.  Now, he still has his quirks, however, now he's more just like a very sensitive teenager.  We continue to work with him.

    He's never going to be the life of the party.  He's always going to be a little less expressive.  People are probably always going to have to literally pull a lot of conversation out of him...but maybe, that's just who he is.  And yes...the last counselor he saw brought up the possibility of "mild aspergers", but so what?  To be honest, I'm not sure the same couldn't be said for my husband.

    You guys will be fine...and like my son, maybe Miles will have some catch up time as he gets older.  He already has the best...a mother who understands and is willing to make sure  he gets what he needs.

    • Thank, tjb (0 / 0)

      Interestingly, the "withdrawal" part caught me by surprise.  Miles is not quiet in the least!  He is highly expressive, in fact I would call it emotionally intense.  What I found out last night is that "withdrawal" also means to kind of live in your head, which winds up looking like daydreaming in class.

      • Well, Wesley does live (0 / 0)

        in his own head a lot, too.  When he was younger, in small groups, he was quite vocal...however, getting him to speak up in front of people he doesn't know well  or in front of larger groups?  Nope.  And he's very happy to amuse himself for hours...although I never understood why that was a BAD thing!  Very emotionally intense, though.  For example, back during Hurricane Katrina as well as the months following, he just agonized over what was happening to those people.   He also tends to either really, really like something or really, really dislike it...not much middle ground.

        • Yup (0 / 0)

          same with Miles.  He is extremely concerned about the environment and tears often look to be just on the edge of his eyes, ready to pour out.

          Ditto on entertaining himself, and ditto on my not really getting why that is a bad thing.

          Our goal in this has been to find the help for Miles to be able to function decently in a team setting and to overcome frustration/challenges in a productive way.  I don't honestly care if he flaps his arms and jumps up and down while he's watching a funny cartoon at home.

          • Exactly. (0 / 0)

            I want my son (and all of my children, for that matter) to be able to lead a happy, independent life.  So far, so good.  If my son makes himself happy by talking to himself, well, there could be worse things.  We're working on helping him accept these things about himself so he can BE himself and not feel as if he has to change.  

            And I'm very hopeful...as I said earlier, Wesley has shown tremendous improvement as he entered teenage years.  He is who he is, but he's finding ways to make that work for him.  

  • I am glad... (0 / 0)

    you are getting some answers in this area. I can't imagine how frustrated you must have been with the school!

    Thanks for the update, and I look forward to hearing about young Miles's experiences -- like what you will do with the results? Will you keep him at his school? How to help him socialize, etc.. Good for you for taking charge of the situation!

  • Happy for you (0 / 0)

    I'm happy you got an evaluation that makes sense to you. I can only imagine how frustrated I'd get having to convince a teacher or principal of what I know to be true about my own child.

    Doesn't listen or work well in groups-- think he could possibly be bored? Gaw. Messy handwriting! So what!!!??? Ack.

    Teachers love to put kids in a box-- you're this type, you're that type. It really is annoying how some of them try to force everyone into a mold. Atypical! Horrors! In time, Miles will find more kids like himself, and he'll learn how to play along as he matures. He's still so young-- of course he had a bit of test-anxiety.

    • the group work thing (0 / 0)

      It's all about wanting to be in charge and lead, really.  He's not good at giving over to the group's decision-making process.  

      I forgot to mention that the doc thought his handwriting was FINE!!!!

      Boredom is definitely an issue, but he also has a tendency to decide that anything that's not his idea or a subject that's not of interest to him is "boring."

      • Yeah, very typical (0 / 0)

        Let's see, how many college classmates can I describe that fit that exactly? :-)

        They couldn't write essays easily, thus those classes were "boring" and "pointless" and "why do I have to take this D@** class anyway since I'll never use this?"

        He's a little young for this now, but over time, a useful skill will be to help him find the interest/value in an exercise and to meet it within the rules, but also in a way that pleases him. For example, I used to write elaborate and dramatic sentences for spelling/vocabulary rather than the shortest, dullest, possible sentence. I remember vividly an incident where I wrote something like, "The visitor dropped the magnificent archetype and it shattered onto the floor." The teacher took me aside to explain to me the difference between 'prototype' and 'archetype' (archetype being the prototype of an idea, like a character or plot, rather than a tangible item) and thanked me for writing such an expressive sentence that showed her that she had not defined it well enough for the class.

        DD is getting bored with some of her homework, so I add extra rules like, "I bet you can't finish this page in 4 minutes, GO!" or otherwise try to find patterns or other strange things. Sometimes she does it upside down.

        It sounds like you're going great with him, Hillary. Having a child that gifted is like the Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times." It is a challenge, and he (and you) may struggle. But, keep supporting him and he'll find a path to a productive and happy adulthood.

      • On the leadership/group thing (0 / 0)

        He might do better on that working in groups with some older kids, kids that he might feel have more natural authority and ability than he does. It can be hard to defer to your peers when they so obviously aren't as knowledgable or clever or tasteful as you (said with all earnestness, irony, and etc).

        • age peers (0 / 0)

          a lot of the socialization issues are to do with relating to age peers.  And I am sure that what you say is exactly the reason why.

          I think more than the group stuff, I am concerned about the "keeping the try" as I think you called it last week. Overcoming frustration and not quitting in the face of new challenges.  The IB curriculum is good in that sense.

          • 'keeping the try' (0 / 0)

            is a horse training term, and it's very applicable, because often what it means is having a skilled trainer help the horse to learn to keep offering the correct response even when the dunderhead, uncoordinated owner fails to recognize and reward/acknowlege it. :-)

            Hmm, I just thought of a couple of great animal training books that I'll have to diary.
            (Shh! The techniques work on humans too.)

  • Good job, mama bear (0 / 0)

    In your face, principal!  

    I love the picture, too.

  • Good news...and challenges (0 / 0)

    and OT, but...WTF is the point of group work?  Does anyone do well with it prior to college?  And even then, a lot of students are immature jerks.  Every person I've ever known has dreaded group projects.  Collaboration can be great, but does enforcing it really help kids' social skills?

    • Seriously! (0 / 0)

      Because even successful adults are so good at working in groups...NOT

    • Groups Are For the Teachers, Not the Kids (0 / 0)

      I am baffled by group projects.  It's supposed to teach the kids collaboration, as if the rest of their academic lives is not going to be painfully isolated struggle.  I think it lets the teachers sit back while the kids "present", and does nothing but spark resentment inside the groups themselves.  

      My daughter in high school gets them all the time.  Invariably, one kid in the group gets the academic flu, and the others have to do the work.  Everybody gets the same grade whatever their contribution, the strong carry the weak, and it isn't fair to anybody.  

      Her last "group" had two kids, and when the other one stayed home with some unspecified ailment, she was told to finish itself and stop complaining.  Being my kid she got a 97 anyway, but really, why does the other kid get so much as 10 points?  But how pissed would I be if it was my kid that got sick and was threatened with getting no credit for missing a deadline he couldn't meet?    

      Fortunately my daughter is very social.  My 13 year old Aspie son?  When he gets to the group projects I am going to have to rewrite his IEP.  

    • I hated it in school (0 / 0)

      but, especially with English and History projects, found no lack of kids who wanted to be in my group (constantly above 100% in those classes).  So, I'd pick 3 kids, give them all the little annoying tasks (bring dice, make copies, etc), charge them for the supplies (sculpey clay, posterboard, what-have-you) and do the whole damn thing myself.

  • Glad (0 / 0)

    Glad you're getting some answers and a plan!

    Cute picture!

  • awesome result (0 / 0)

    Hillary - good for you and B for advocating so vigorously. It's also gotta feel good that the scientific testing bears out exactly what you see as a mom. Right on.

    I really feel for Miles as I recognize a lot of the behaviors as stuff I went throug at his age, although I won't even bother trying to claim I was (or am) anywhere near his level of intellectual precocity. But the trouble with groupwork, difficulties in making transitions, living in my own head/being withdrawn - check, check, check. Some of it I outgrew with good support from my folks, some of it is still part of who I am. Journalists ain't known for their ability to share and work with groups, you know! And I think that because I always moved so independently and within my own head, I have been able to do things like moving from one country to another and find my way. I'm not much bothered by peer group pressure, you know? Of course, I could be self-aggrandizing here...

    So these are traits that can be of benefit in adult situations. Certainly, if Miles wants to pursue science or mathematics or engineering, he's going to find a lot of people like him when he hits his stride!

  • Miles is (0 / 0)

    off the charts brilliant and he's lucky to have such a wonderful advocate in you, Hillary.  I'm glad to see that you found some answers with this analysis and now you can take the appropriate steps.  

    Regarding "processing speed"... Grant has a hard time with that too.   We are working with him on that.  He's definitely a visual-spatial learner and they typically have a tough time with timed tests.

    Oh... and I love the photo too... adorable!

    "If it's not Scottish, it's crap!" ~Mike Meyers

    by 1plain1peanut on Tue Nov 20, 2007 at 04:46:45 PM PDT

  • whoo, hoo! (0 / 0)

    you know, it's like my mother (rehab counselor) says: you bring me the body, I'll get to the mind.

  • glad you got some answers (0 / 0)

    Miles is lucky to have you as an advocate!

  • Sounds like generally positive news (0 / 0)

    It's helpful to have a "name" to put to part of what's going on for Miles - may lead you and his teachers to helpful resources.  I also love the story at the end - it sounds like his teacher really gets and supports him!  What a tremendous gift for him!

  • congratulations! (0 / 0)

    on getting some answers that make sense to you and give you hope.

  • i'm glad he did so well (0 / 0)

    and i like it that he had to make a puppet of his character- what a great idea

  • one other thing (0 / 0)

    Schools, for the most part, are set up to serve "average" kids -- the 68% of people whose IQs fall between 85 - 115.  That's who gen ed teachers are trained to work with, for the most part.  Kids who are +/- 1 or more standard deviations from the "average" IQ of 100 usually do better with teachers specially trained to work with them.

    Are there any gifted schools in your area?  We have a few where I live.  They're private and of course expensive, but filled with employees who understand the gifts and challenges that many really smart kids present with.  An argument can be made that a "free and appropriate education" for such students would involve the school district paying to send the child to such a school.  Just a thought....

  • I'm glad you (0 / 0)

    got some answers and that they seem to jibe well with what you have observed.  I bet this information will be helpful to you, the school and his teachers in years to come!

  • A "Spectrum" implies infinity at both ends. (0 / 0)

    DS 19yo is a freshman at UC Berkeley, very good at math and video games but "painfully shy". Maybe that's ultra-mild Asperger's, that's what I've thought for years. He startles easily and sometimes says phrases under his breath repeatedly. He copes, or thrives, as a funny grump. That's his signature personality trait--when in a group of friends, he's the grump with pet peeves galore. Hey, it works for him!

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