Mother Talkers

Advice needed from experienced Moms

Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 08:37:07 AM PDT

Recently I have noticed the subject of dealing with 3 & 4 year olds popping up here at Mothertalkers. As the parent of a 3.5 year old girl, it has been nice to know that I am not the only one struggling with this age. My daughter seemed to become a different kid overnight when she turned 3. We'd never had tantrums before that, and even though she would get upset at things easily, she was always respectful. Over the past 6 months, and especially over the past two months since we have a new baby in the house, she has become so much more difficult. Backtalking me, being rude, throwing her body on the ground having tantrums, etc. Dinnertime is a disaster -- I've come to the point where I will only serve us all the same thing, and if she doesn't want to even try it, fine. She can leave the table and sit quietly with a book.

None of these episodes on their own are enough to worry about, but it's the fact that it's several times a day! And from what I am hearing from friends with children the same age, it is not unusual. I know that at this age they are coming to terms with their independence, and are realizing that they don't HAVE to listen to their parents. They can act on all of their impulses if they want, and it's my job as a parent to teach her when it is appropriate and when it is not.

My dilemma here is that because she is my oldest, each of her phases is new to me. I tend to be fairly strict with what I expect from her behavior-wise, and I worry that I am being TOO hard on her, taking the joy right out of her little self. But, I fear that if I ease up and let some of these issues slide, a few years from now she will be a full-fledged brat. Discipline is so important, and from what I have read doing a good job of it now lays the groundwork for dealing with the tough stuff that comes with the teen years. Discipline to me is correcting behavior that I don't feel is appropriate -- throwing toys, shouting at me, refusing to do as I ask, etc. Spanking is not in my toolbox as I have too many memories of being spanked/hit and I know it just teaches a child that their parent is out of control. But, I do find myself yelling A LOT more than I should.

So my question to you mothers who have been here, done that is, am I wrong to fear that I will raise a brat if I ease up on the girl? What have you seen in your older children as a result of the way you handled difficulties of this age?

Tags: discipline, preschoolers, parenting (all tags)

Permalink | 54 comments

  • I think it has more to do (0 / 0)

    with the behavior you model.  Spoiled, bratty parents tend to have spoiled, bratty kids.  I know this isn't behavior that you indulge in, so its unlikely your daughter is going to turn out that way.

    That said, I am not one for punishment.  I have certain expectations, but I've found that at young ages, kids are very interested in hearing the "whys" concerning behavioral rules.  And always, the fall back question to ask is "would you like it if I treated you this way?"  

    • Punishment vs. discipline (0 / 0)

      I'm not a fan of punishment, either, but I do think there have to be consequences sometimes. If she finds my scissors and cuts up papers on my desk, that's not something I would have a consequence for. I just talk to her seriously about why it isn't safe for her to use my scissors and make a mental note to be more careful. But when I say it's time to clean up and am met with "No! I'm not going to clean up!!"...well, that's different. After asking her twice I let her know that if she cannot clean up her toys and if mommy has to clean them up, then they are getting put up in the closet and she won't have them to play with for a while.

      You must have had to try different tactics based on different personalities. Thanks for the advice!

      • Oh yeah...you can start feeling (0 / 0)

        as if you have multiple personalities after awhile.  And by all means, setting clear expectations and sticking to them is necessary.  Back when my kids were little, every morning they had to "help" around the house.  What they were expected to do varied with age, ofcourse, but until they had completed their chores, there was no playing.  It wasn't something you could get out of.  You're also very right about not making food an issue.  I have a couple that were, and still are, picky, but the most they'd get if they didn't want what we were having was a peanut butter sandwich.  This didn't cure them of their pickiness, but it saved a lot of needless fights and power struggles.

  • agree (0 / 0)

    I'm not that much ahead of you (my oldest is 4.5) but I do agree that discipline (I like to think of it as "guidance") is really important when they are young too.

    The trick for me is picking my battles.  Like you, I've decided that food is not going to be a battle.  I make dinner, you don't eat it, that's fine.  I don't offer a million things though, just because what I have served is rejected.  We just move on and wait for the next meal or snack.

    Throwing things, not listening to me, backtalking, all of that is unacceptable so for that I do try to guide a little more firmly, maybe do a timeout etc.

    It's tough!

  • I'm having post-traumatic flashbacks (0 / 0)

    My oldest was a lot like this when she was 3 (and 4 and 5!). She would wake up screaming, go to bed screaming and scream much of the day in between. It was frustrating to say the least. Let's just say she wasn't the only one screaming! ;)

    Now that she is older (8), and I "know her" better, there are a few things I wish I'd realized about her back then. Maybe these apply to your DD?

    • She is VERY physical. Now, when she is upset, acting in appropriately or just struggling with her homework, I send her outside to run around the house five times. She loves it, and the change it effects on her state of mind is remarkable. If I'd known that when she was little, we would have played a lot more tag! If I could go back to the dinner table when she was 3, I would definitely make her do 30 jumping jacks before she sat down to eat.
    • When she throws tantrums (she is still very emotional), she feels really out of control and it's scary for her. When I see them coming, I try to head them off with hugs and deep breaths and diversions. I always try to be there for her afterward, and I try to talk about how she's feeling.
    • One big trigger for her is fear of the unknown (which can be as simple as "what will that taste like?" or as complicated as "what will life be like when I'm a grown up?"), so I try to prepare her for unusual circumstances. Some phrases that might work at dinner are: "This tastes like chicken," or "You already tried that once and you liked it" or "Little girls who cooperate with Mommy at dinner get an extra bedtime story!" (There's nothing like wholesale bribery.)
    • While we're on the food issue, DD was a healthy, but picky, eater. She doesn't like meat or dairy, which made mealtimes kind of difficult when she was small. Now we let her "trade" one healthy food for another. Since she's never met a veggie she didn't like, she will trade her pork for more squash, etc. It acknowledges her own personal (and I believe legitimate) preferences, gives her control over her own eating habits, and encourages her to explore the idea of healthy and balanced eating. We could have started that earlier, I think.
    • You are right to address her discipline issues--even though it's exhausting and sometimes feels terrible. I always made a point to deal with DD's inappropriate behavior in some way--whether it was a stern talking to, taking away a toy or activity, or just putting her in her room while she screamed it out. I always tried to give ample warning and follow through on those warnings. Now when I say "stop that, or else _" she believes me the first time, and I think all those frustrating yeras were worth it. She's also a swell kid in general, and I think she is learning to channel her passionate nature in more positive ways.

    I thought 3-4 was a really tough age. There are some things I would do differently, but I wouldn't go back and 'let her off the hook." I do think with her strong personality she could have become very bratty.

    Wow, this was long winded! Thank you for the trip down memory lane! As I imagine your little sassypants, I have a smile on my face. I'm sure she's going to grow up splendidly!

    • Thanks (0 / 0)

      I just don't always want to be riding her, you know? I've been trying to read different child behavior books to see what I should do. The thing is, it is not my instinct to react calmly. I have to try very very hard to not fly off the handle, but I know it is important so I do make that effort.

      As long I hear that with the effort it will pass, it's worth it, thanks!

      • i think what feels like (0 / 0)

        "riding" them, while i have hated the feeling too, is also necessary.  I know my DS, who turned 4 today!, just finished (finishing????) up this stage.  We recognized that he needed up to stand firm to give him real boundaries.  Of course there were some very difficult moments.  And many nights of wondering if we were being too "firm".

        Now our sweet little guy has reappeared, just in time for his 4th birthday.

  • What you have there is a 3 year old (0 / 0)

    I'll take a boatload of 2 year olds over one three year old.  Terrible Twos my fat fanny.  Three...that's the bad one around here.

    They're so frustrated by everything and they're just big balls of energy.  I guess it's hard for them but it made me mental each time I had a three year old.  Basically I just got through it by repeating "it's a phase, it will pass, it's a phase, it will pass"  and it did.  

    My advice?  Just hang on tight...4 is coming...

    "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. Gotta kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight"

    by lonestar canuck on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 11:07:32 AM PDT

    • Yay! (0 / 0)

      Though a friend of mine has a 4yo daughter and she says it's gotten harder! I just want to do right by her so she will grow up to be a nice, well-adjusted person who can behave in a way that will help her get what she wants out of life.

      • The thing is (0 / 0)

        that you don't have to worry about her adjustment all the time.  Sometimes you just deal with the little things - it's not acceptable for her to (for example) throw things.  So you deal with the throwing of things - if she needs to spend some time cooling her heels in her room until she's ready to come and help you pick up whatever she threw then that's okay too - and don't worry about her growing up to throw things...it will pass.  I promise.  

        Just deal with each thing as it arises and adjust your expectations - the number of times I carried a screaming three year old out of a store where I just needed to pick up milk and made the mistake of getting too near to a toy or candy that they desperately wanted...ugh...I can't count.  

        Anyway, I'll take 4 over 3 anyday - but your friend's kid is different and her pattern of frustrating weirdness may be different than my kids.  

        "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. Gotta kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight"

        by lonestar canuck on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 11:20:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    • Totally agree (0 / 0)

      I never understood the 'terrible twos.'  My kids were much easier to handle at 2 than at 3.

  • I have a three year old (0 / 0)

    My son will be four in December.  He was the tantrum king right around when he turned three.  It lasted a few months and then he was back to normal until recently.  Now he's a little tantrumy again but not as intense as when he was a new three.  I've noticed that there are some times of day that are really bad for him so we don't ask too much of him at those times.

    On the being rude, defiant etc.  I agree that there need to be consequences for those actions/behaviors or he will not be well socialized.  DH and I experimented with that.  Time outs were not terribly effective as sometimes he would do something he knew was naughty and then go to his time-out chair like he planned it out in advance and knew the consequence and decided he could live with it.  

    What works best with him is putting toys in time-out.  We usually give him a warning if he's starting to act out but if he does something really, really bad all of his Thomas trains go up on top of the refrigerator and stay in time-out until he earns them back with good behavior.  We had one pretty bad day where all of his Thomas toys, Bob the Builder trucks, and other various trucks ended up in high spots.  He takes the  threat of toys in time out very seriously and usually cleans up his act.

  • Tantrums suck! (0 / 0)

    We're dealing with them on a daily basis as well, with our almost 4 1/2 year old.  It's a good thing that he is cute when he sleeps, since he's not always real cute when he is awake.  

    For the most part, we understand the developmental part of it all and realize that this shall pass.  But it requires a lot of teamwork on our parts and we're never afraid to tag team when one of us has had it.  I am so grateful that DH works next door or from home so he is available.  

    We have found two things that work:

    1.  Ignoring.  Last night, he followed me around and I just kept at my business despite his shouting and demands.  A few weeks ago I would have redirected him and ended up in his room with him on time out.  But by ignoring him, he wasn't getting what he wanted by taking nasty to me, which was my attention.  It was kind of amusing to watch him trying to pick a fight when I wasn't taking the bait.  He settled down pretty quickly.
    1.  Staying calm.  Ignoring is so much easier to do when I am calm.  Even when my voice is calm, I am learning that Little Boy knows when I am jacked up and it keeps him escalated as well.  I am working very, very hard at mentally reminding myself to be calm and not let him see me out of control.  We keep a stack of magazines handy so that when we are in his room, keeping watch over his tantrum (we have to for safety reasons) I can at least look at the pictures in the magazines rather than look at him - and this helps me stay calm.

    Oh, and have a sense of humor.  This morning, Little Boy was in his grumpy place and was yelling for my husband and I.  When simply yelling our names didn't work, he said this:  "I am giving you to the count of 3 to help me.  1.  2.   3."  I couldn't help but laugh!

  • And don't forget (0 / 0)

    that the new sibling is really traumatic for her. My oldest acquired his baby brother when he was 2 yrs 8 mths--and then we moved two months later. Poor thing basically lost his center-of-the-world status and his home all in one go. It took a long time for him to settle down. I think consistency and patience is the best you can aim for.

    As to dinner, you are doing the right thing. The usual advice is to serve one meal for everyone, but make sure you offer a few options within that (for instance, chicken with or without the scary sauce). And everything is optional. If the meal is chicken, scary sauce, pasta, and veggies, let her pick what of that she wants. Don't comment or cajole or plead or demand. Just serve what she asks for and let her eat it. If she doesn't want to eat anything, that's ok too--as long as she knows she can't go get something else from the fridge and no, you won't fix her anything else until the next mealtime (I always offered milk and cheese at bedtime, but nothing before then). Finally, always serve something like bread and milk with dinner, so if she really is hungry but doesn't like what you served, she has a neutral option.

    If you're really worried about eating habits, check out "How to Get Your Kid to Eat, But Not Too Much," by Ellyn Satter.

    • I will (0 / 0)

      I'm always looking for books that may help. Right now I make sure she gets a good breakfast and lunch, and I just give her what I know she will eat so that I know she has had something that day. Dinner is where I have more rules -- no TV, we all sit at the table, she can't toss food off her plate if she doesn't want to eat it. She does have milk to drink, and if we have bread I give her a SMALL piece -- otherwise she'd fill up on it and I'd have no hope of her even trying the rest of the meal. I do kiddie-fy the food we're eating, though. And I started giving her really small portions so there isn't so much pressure.

  • Remember the rule of "halves" (0 / 0)

    Kids tend to have acting out phases right around their "half" birthdays-- like clockwork it has happened to Liza for the past 8 years ....

    the other thing I have learned is to remove MYSELF frmo her when she gets on my last nerve... to keep my voice low and calm, to come down to her level, to look her in the eye and to just keep repeating what I need to say.  

    does it always work? of course not. Am I a lot calmer --oh yeah.

    • Interesting! (0 / 0)

      I didn't know that about the halves, but now that you mention it, that's when things have always come to a head (didn't help that her little bro was born two days after half-birthday this year).

      I always have to remind myself that she is THREE, I am ten times her age and can't try to relate to her as if she was a rational adult.

      • equilibrium/disequilibrium (0 / 0)

        i have found this cycle to be VERY much the case with my son. (and even still myself, at almost 34)

        apparently the theory is this:

        at the year mark, they are able to pretty much process what they are taking in fairly well. their behavior is more consistent and "good" for lack of a better word.

        at the 1/2 year mark, they are taking in SOOOO much info, processing a lot, and getting overwhelmed MUCH more easily.

        some tips i have heard:
        give lots of warnings and more preparation for transitions - like getting dressed, getting ready to leave somewhere, bathtime. warnings, reminders, etc.

        the only other big tip i have heard is, for me, the hardest one. SELF-CARE, for you. taking that time each day to do something and get a moment, even five minutes of focussed and complete quiet, will give you more energy and understanding in dealing with their volitility.

        good luck! i am at the 4.5 mark with my son, i feel your pain.

        We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

        by lorin on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 07:55:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • transitions (0 / 0)

          what a great tip, Lorin. I know that when I build in time to explain transitions, everything goes much smoother. Of course, I don't always remember to do that...

          Jah Issac is 4.5? I swear, he has the eyes of an old soul; seems very wise beyond his years.

          • yes (0 / 0)

            he is 4.5, but as tall as a 7 year old and with a vocabulary off the charts since his mom is such a nerdy dork. it really confuses other parents because he still only has (maybe) the social skills of a 4 year old - i have to let people know his real age.

            We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - E.R. Murrow

            by lorin on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 10:12:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  • I seriously (0 / 0)

    doubt you'll raise a brat.  The fact that you are conscientious about her behavior will keep that from happening.  I've read through the comments about age 3 being tough.  All I can say, is all kids are different.  For both my kids, it was (and is for my daughter) the tough age.  Sure we had some temper tantrums at 3, but now we get "Why not" and then I have to try and explain why you can't have your friend from preschool over every single day.  And sleep issues are coming up too... bedtime has become somewhat of a power struggle some nights.  Like others have said... it'll pass.

    As a friend once told me, it's their job to be difficult.  They are testing their environments, limits, all those things.  It's all part of the growth process and completely normal.  Here's some information about temper tantrums from Peggy O'Mara's Book Natural Family Living:

    Recognize that temper tantrums are a normal, healthy, necessary release for toddlers and that you can do nothing to control them.  Young children lack the verbal skills or cognitive awareness to interpret the powerful emotions they fell, and sometimes fear, anger, or frustration explode in a very physical way.  A no-holds-barred tantrum can be very cleansing to a child, who will usually emerge calm and renewed.

    A tantrum is as overwhelming to the child experiencing it as it is to adults witnessing it.  The best thing you can do for your child when he is in the midst of a full-blown tantrum is to stand by quietly and give him the time and space to work out his rage.  If you are in a public place, you may have to remove him to a place where he won't disturb others.  Instead of shutting him in a room by himself, stay with him until his fury subsides, so that he can climb onto your lap, be comforted, and then get on with the business of learning about the world in a trusting, open way.

    She's right... tantrums are overwhelming to the parents as well.  I find that if I'm calm, my kids calm down faster.  If I can let go of the situation and not take it personally, things usually go smoother.  

    Some folks have mentioned books... I love books by Faber & Mazlish like How to Talk to Kids so That Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk.
    Also, Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinca is helpful if you feel your child is especially "spirited".  And finally, we will be doing a book discussion on Kurcinca's book Sleepless in America on the 22nd.  I've just gotten the book and skimmed through.  It looks like a lot of behavior problems could to tied to lack of sleep.  If this sounds like you child, you may check that book out too.

    Best of luck to you as you navigate this wonderful and trying time with your child.  :-).

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

    by 1plain1peanut on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 01:22:31 PM PDT

    • Darn... (0 / 0)

      I meant to say:
      "For both my kids, four was (and is for my daughter) the tough age."

      "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

      by 1plain1peanut on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 01:24:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • re: Kucinka (0 / 0)

      what ages are addressed in Raising Your Spirited Child? How does one determine whether one's child is spirited according to her definition?

      • I've wondered this, too (0 / 0)

        My kid can be easily upset, but she is just as easily over it. I term her "expressive" since what I've read of spirited kids only fits her personality some of the time.

      • I think you know it when you have one... (0 / 0)

        I remember hearing "more everything" to describe spirited.  More energy, more sensitive, more intense, more challenging.  Here's a decent description.  

        She addresses very young and school aged children in her books.  My son was like this at a young age.  He was a high need baby, became a high need toddler, and a high need preschooler.  He seems to have leveled out and is now what I'd call easy at 7 1/2.  My 4 1/2 year old daughter is the challenging one now.  

        "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."

        by 1plain1peanut on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 03:47:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • I have one who's still like that (0 / 0)

          at 19.  Ofcourse, you appreciate these qualities more in a 19 year old than you do in a four year old.  On the other hand, I can no longer pick up my 19 year old and remove him from the room when he gets on my nerves.

    • Thankfully sleep isn't a problem (0 / 0)

      She naps 2-3 hours a day and is in bed (though not always asleep) from 8:30 pm - 7 am. Sleeping well has been her gift to me from an early age!

      I will check out those books, thanks!

      • Avery still naps? (0 / 0)

        That's fantastic news... I'm hoping to encourage Jess's naps as long as she'll have them...

        Is the young man as good a sleeper as Avery was?

        • Yep (0 / 0)

          It's at the point where I'm almost embarrassed to admit it! Whenever I mention that she naps still I get the raised eyebrows and "really?" from people. Usually because they wish theirs still napped! I'm a bit of an enforcer of it -- I need the break! There are days when she is determined not to nap, and so I explain that she doesn't need to sleep, but she does need to stay in her bed for a little while for quiet time. Usually she falls fast asleep after that.

          Toby is on track for being like his big sis. For the past two weeks (since week 6) he's been generally waking at night once or twice, though some nights he stays awake for an hour or more which can be tough. During the day he has two distinctive nap times (one overlaps Avery's -- woo-hoo!) and may doze here and there as well. So, I definitely encourage him to have specific sleep times, now that he is spacing out his feedings.

          • Bed time? (0 / 0)

            I'm just curious, because I've encouraged my daughter to stop napping...because if she has one, she's up till nine pm and we have serious dramas in going to bed. If she doesn't have one, she's asleep by seven. I need those evening hours of downtime when they're both asleep more than I need it in the middle of the day. Does your daughter have trouble with bedtime? Or is she one of those truly miraculous children that has a nap and happily goes to bed early as well?

            • 7 is too early for us (0 / 0)

              She GOES to bed at 8:30 -- the routine usually begins at 8 with PJs, teeth brushing, story reading and a lullaby. She usually goes to sleep soon after, sometimes not until 9. I wake her up at 7:15 to get ready for school, and on weekends she usually sleeps until 8am.

              DH doesn't get home from work until 6, sometimes 6:30, so a 7pm bedtime is too early for us. We don't usually even sit down to dinner until 6:30 or 7. With an 8-week old I can't get dinner ready on my own before he gets home. So, it gives DD and DH time together in the evening before bedtime this way.

              • Fair enough (0 / 0)

                I find that my son (18 months) is ready for bed at 6:30 or so, and if my daughter stayed up while he was asleep, I think I'd go crazy. Hence the no naps. :) We do eat very early...and if my husband comes home late, tough. It certainly gives him added incentive to get home on time! My kids also wake up with the birds, no matter what time they go to bed (and I've tried!). Here that's 6 am in the winter and 4:30 to 5 am in the summer. Torture. So bed early is a necessity!

                • Oh yes! (0 / 0)

                  I can see how that would work in your house! I think my kids take after me -- I am not a morning person. As much as I enjoy the coolness and peace of the early morning, it takes me a good hour to fully feel alert and awake. I work from home, so a lot of my working hours are after the kids are in bed, I seem to have more energy then. When it's busy season I stay up until 1 am frequently. So I am very happy to have her sleep until 7:30 or 8! Hopefully we can train #2 to follow suit. With #1 I'd delay getting her out of bed once she was about 1. She wouldn't cry, she'd just talk to herself for a few minutes. Eventually I was able to stretch it out to 30 minutes or 7am -- whichever came first. She'd play in her crib, then her bed, with her stuffed toys until I came to get her. Sooner or later she just started waking up after 7, and so here we are.

      • this explains everything! (0 / 0)

        it wouldn't be fair if you had a child who took a nice long nap AND slept well at night AND didn't have tantrums.

        it just wouldn't be fair!

        if the tantrums happen when you're trying to transition from one activity to another, this might help-

        when my kids want to do something- like play at the park, but they won't do what they're supposed to do, i'll say something like

        "oh no!!  we're using up all of our playing at the park time- if we don't x, y, or z right now, we're not going to have any playing at the park time left!"

        sometimes this is enough to get them to drop what they're doing and get ready to do the next thing, even if they were really into whatever it was.

        another thing that helps is i'll say something like "you're the kind of kid who...."

        this works well with other people's kids, too- if i sense an issue about sharing or not sharing is coming up i'll say to my child "don't worry- i know him- he's the kind of kid who is good at taking turns."  or i'll say to the other child "don't worry -ali's the kind of kid who's good at taking turns."

        and don't worry about dinner- the last thing you want to do is make meal time miserable.  i think you're right to not force her to eat anything.  i still remember sitting in the dark kitchen w/ my plate of cold food hours after everyone left the table.  what was the point of that?  what good did it do anyone?

        • I STILL get left behind at the table (0 / 0)

          I can't fault my kid for being picky — I am a picky eater myself. I don't remember my mom ever making an issue out of it, though on of her boyfriends DID. I still remember the time he forced me to eat this giant bowl of clam chowder before I could be excused from the table. I'm also a slow eater, so I often finish my meals alone at the table even today (though I don't mind anymore! Just more time for my crossword!).

          LOL, there were times when Avery was colicky as a baby that I would think to myself "the Lord in heaven at least gave me a sleeper." Sort of my recognition to the saying that we don't get more than we can handle -- if she hadn't been a sleeper I may have gone into full-fledged depression instead of just the baby blues!

    • Raising your Spirited Child (0 / 0)

      I think this book is great.  I just picked up my own copy after having borrowed it previously.  I want to know where the kids are who aren't "sprited"!

      • grin... (0 / 0)

        That's what I've found, too. It's the current rage at our playgroup. I'm wondering...if everyone's kids are "spirited", then who's the "normal"? Reminds me of the old Prairie Home Companion, where every child is above average. :)

        • I have a friend (0 / 0)

          with a bratty daughter.  Sorry, but that's the way it really is.  The mom identifies with her, and since she felt misunderstood as a kid, she goes way overboard accommodating and "appreciating" the spirited child.  The girl is now 9 and still continuously interrupts conversations, whines, pulls her mom's hand, etc. -- all of which the mom consents to, because the daughter is "spirited."  

          I gave this child a ride somewhere recently and she kept my son and I waiting.  Her mom did not have her ready on time, and declined to "rush" her while we waited, instead patiently chatting with her while the kid slowly put on her socks, debated which barrettes to wear, etc.  My son is a stickler for punctuality and was about ready to leave their house and walk on his own.  Rude, rude, rude.

        • My kids are normal (0 / 0)

          Just regular old kids.  Not walking miracles or anything.   Just plain old kids.  They have ups and downs and stuff that they are sensitive about as well but they aren't in any special group.  

          "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. Gotta kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight"

          by lonestar canuck on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 09:45:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  • i remember this stage... (0 / 0)

    and it happened very much at the same age with my dd.  now we didn't have a new baby in the house which i am sure complicates the whole situation.

    here's what i found that worked and used throughout childhood with dd.  i would see her wind up and notice increasing frequency of temper tantrums, back talking and in general lack of cooperation. as i saw it rise i would calmly let her know that it was time for us to make time to have a "discussionation".  i would formally sit her down in living room and lay out what i was seeing, get her agreement and then tell her what needed to change specifically.  we would indeed discuss it and then agreement to get it in order and then end with a hug.

    every 3 to 4 months she'd wind up again and we'd have the formal discussion.
    seemed to work from @ age 4 forward.

  • oh thank god (0 / 0)

    there are others going through the same thing. DD is 4.5 and I swear the last couple of months she's become unrecognizable. I now count the days when there wasn't a tantrum - very few and far between lately. We never know what's going to set her off. Last week, she decided she was no longer going to wipe after using the bathroom... just because she felt like it. WTH? DH tried explain the importance, blah blah blah, then the screaming started and all was lost. she was brought upstairs kicking and screaming for a time out.

    I've tried the toy time out and she just doesn't care after awhile. Same with losing a play date. Between her fits and my 2 year son testing his will power/bravery/stubbornness we're just wrecked.

    • oooh that's rough (0 / 0)

      I suppose there ARE natural consequences for not wiping, right?  Not that one wants to contemplate them, LOL.  

      • oooooh (0 / 0)

        the whole natural consequences thing...sometimes around here the natural consequences of their actions are that their mother loses her mind.   Suck on that Piaget.  

        "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. Gotta kick at the darkness til it bleeds daylight"

        by lonestar canuck on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 09:47:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • you say that like it's a bad thing... (0 / 0)

          I have to say yesterday I suffered from my son's "natural" consequences.  I grounded him from his cellphone when he got in trouble last week, which seemed like a great idea until I went to pick him up from school yesterday earlier than planned and I couldn't find him.  Turned out he was in the science room building a robot and he forgot to sign in to daycare.  That was 45 minutes of drama I could have lived without.  It would have been so much easier to call him.

          Today he has his cellphone.

        • LOL (0 / 0)

          I love it.  "Suck on that, Piaget" may become my new motto for my less than stellar yet effective parenting moments.

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