Mother Talkers

Men are happier than you

Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 08:14:49 AM PDT

David Leonhardt of The New York Times examines a study that came out last year, showing a growing happiness gap between men and women since the 1960s.  In the 1970s, women reported being slightly happier than men, however, since then, women's happiness has been on the decline.  Men now report being happier than women.  Why?

What has changed — and what seems to be the most likely explanation for the happiness trends — is that women now have a much longer to-do list than they once did (including helping their aging parents). They can’t possibly get it all done, and many end up feeling as if they are somehow falling short ...

Betsey Stevenson, an economist at the University of Pennsylvania, explains it this way, that women were happier three decades ago becauuse they had "narrower ambitions," and compared themselves only to other women.  Stevenson recollects a conversation with a student:

Her mother’s goals in life, the student said, were to have a beautiful garden, a well-kept house and well-adjusted children who did well in school. "I sort of want all those things, too," the student said, as Ms. Stevenson recalled, "but I also want to have a great career and have an impact on the broader world."

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Leonhardt sums it up.  Basically, despite all the great gains, despite all the hard work by the feminists, this data shows, "just how incomplete the gender revolution has been. Although women have flooded into the work force, American society hasn’t fully come to grips with the change. The United States still doesn’t have universal preschool, and, in contrast to other industrialized countries, there is no guaranteed paid leave for new parents."

As we've talked about before, the pressures on mothers these days are clearly through the roof, along with the pressure to be a fabulous homemaker, all while maintaining a career.  No wonder the polls come out so unhappy!  Even for me, as an at-home mother, I often feel like I am trying to do too much; I take care of two young children all day yet feel guilty when my house looks like crap at the end of the day and dinner is less than gourmet.

What do you think MTers?  Do you think that women wanting to do everything, be the best at everything is the recipe for women's unhappiness?  Do you think that women, pre-1970s were happier?

Tags: work life balance (all tags)

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  • well sure! (0 / 0)

    I'd be happier if I didn't have to clean the entire freakin' house, do all the laundry, keep up with the bills and accounts, take time off when DD is sick and garden and feel like an awful person if I didn't!

    I was looking at DH the other day wondering how they would manage if I died. My main thought was "they'd be kind of filthy but they'd do all right".

    if you wobba cypress trees then I will wobba you

    by thais on Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 08:40:02 AM PDT

  • I totally agree (0 / 0)

    My moms goals were to go to college, get married, have kids, keep a nice house and garden.  So, 3 classes short of her PhD and holding a Master's in Speech and Language Pathology, she's worked for 5 years.  The rest of the time has been spent raising my brother and me, taking care of her elderly ill parents, and dealing with my dad (her husband of 26 years).

    And she's thrilled.  No impact on the outside world (other than raising wonderful me, of course, LOL), no career, no money "of her own" (and boy, does that man lord it over her).  Ick.  I just couldn't DO that.  I'm starting my credential/master's program (online, thank you) in January, with a 3 week old, so that when my kids start school I can become a financail participant in our household.  I'm already in charge of all of our bills and money (who gets what, how debts are paid down, etc) but I'd like us to be on even footing, and I haven't felt that since DH got a "real" job.

    On a side note, my brother has moved in with me and both my mom's parents have passed (her mom just in August) so she's got an empty nest...and nothing to do.  She's also only 51.  Should be interesting to see how she handles the "freedom."

    • Your mom will do just fine. (0 / 0)

      I getting close to her in age...and while children find it difficult to believe that parents (especially mothers) can be happy when they're gone, it really is a great stage of life.  Raising children is hard work...no matter if you were a working mother, a stay at home mother, or some combination of the two.  Don't get me wrong...I've loved every minute of my 23 years as a parent, but I'm not too worried about how I'm going to occupy myself after the youngest one leaves.    

      And for those of us who started our families while we were still young, well, the good news is that we're still fairly young when they're grown!

      • So true! (0 / 0)

        My aunt raised 7 kids over 20 odd years and has had an awesome "retirement." My uncle and she were awarded volunteers of the year by the governor a couple years back for al ltheir work in their community, which really didn't start until the kids were grown. I'd say she's doing just fine with an empty nest!

      • Oh, I'm sure she'll be fine (0 / 0)

        I just cannot imagine how putting up with first my dad, then me, then my brother and then her (senile, so it wasn't their fault) really angry elderly parents was really "enough" for her.

        We all want her to go back to work (she loved it) but I doubt she will.

        What do you mean, uh-oh? Toddler & baby pictures

        by round peg inna square hole on Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 12:21:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • you're right (0 / 0)

        My SIL and her husband had their first child when they were 24 and 26 respectively, and their second child four years later. Now, the kids are 21 and 17 respectively, and they're only 45 and 47! Of course, this being Australia, the gestalt is slightly different and the kids will probably stay at home a few more years, but their days of "freedom" are fast approaching and they're still young.

  • Yes, and I'm sorry, (0 / 0)

    but somewhere a long the way, we really didn't teach our young people that happiness doesn't come from acquisition.  

    Last Wednesday was my father's birthday and my daughter and I went down to visit.  My brother came over and we were talking about just this topic.  He and his wife have been married for about four and a half years and have a three year old son.  They both work.  My brother was talking about how she was so anxious about doing everything "just right" and we also discussed how society is really sending these messages to young mothers.  She's from Poland, and we also talked about the culture shock she's experiencing due to our wildly different attitudes about work, careers, spending, etc.  So much pressure to excel at work...to make it a "career" that almost a religious calling.  And ofcourse, the pressure to spend, buy and acquire.  And our mixed messages we send about children....we say we like them, but really, our deeds don't match our words.  

    So yeah...I can see why women are more unhappy...maybe we should be teaching all of our children that happiness comes from within and its not something that we can buy or even achieve.  

  • It seems too simple (0 / 0)

    to say that women were happier in days gone by.  I think women were less vocal in days gone by and had no voice to speak about their displeasure if they had some.

    It seems society wanted to paint a picture of happiness on women back then, and even now while picturing the past as if perhaps that is one of women's problems is that we "want" too much now.  baloney.

    I also think that our culture of consumerism needs happiness to be a commodity that we must pursue through acquisition of more things, or through medical means -- heaven forbid if we can manage on our own and be happy.

    I read a fascinating book titled "How We Choose to Be Happy" by Rick Foster & Greg Hicks.  The authors spent three years studying extremely "happy" people and developed an "acclaimed model" of nine choices that happy people use to create their happiness.  

    I was thinking about this very topic today after reading an article in the newspaper about how pregnant women bemoan the errant comment or touch by friend or stranger regarding their pregnant bodies.  I can understand having issues with certain behaviors of others while pregnant, but I also felt that the whole subject was overblown and a bit ridiculous.  For example, if I choose to think of my surroundings or others' behavior as negative and narrate my life in those terms, that is what my daily experience will be.  If I choose to narrate it in more positive frames, that too will dictate what much of my experience will be.  I'm not suggesting painting everything with smiley faces, but there is a bounty of ways where just the power of our minds and thought can change radically the ways in which we respond to our circumstances which directly impacts the chemical reactions in our bodies, which in turn make us feel better, or worse, depending in large measure on our thoughts.

    I can think of dozens of ways in my own life that has held true.  From economic issues, to relationships, to aging and dying parents, to ill friends, raising children, paid employment, volunteer work,  etc.  

    I would say that my husband and I are intrinsically happy people, but I also notice now and especially with hindsight, that throughout our lives we have made conscious choices that have framed our lives in ways that took the good over the bad in most situations we faced, and in so doing have changed our lives as well.

    I love this quote:

    If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

    • I'm also a believer (0 / 0)

      in the idea that happiness is often a choice.  I've encountered too many people who seemingly just don't want to be happy or who are simply happy in being miserable.  I also believe that for too many, "happiness" is defined by acquisition...its always that next thing that's going to bring happiness.  

      I'm well aware that many would find the life I lead pretty horrible...and frankly, sometimes these people make me wonder if there's something wrong with me for refusing to be unhappy.  Can't live that way, though.  I guess we're optimists...we can always think about how things could be much worse.

      • I'm with you (0 / 0)

        There is a lot about my life that is not the best it could be. I choose to focus on what is good and find the things that bring me joy. My child is the greatest joy. As long as she is well, then my world is well.

        I have a few things set aside that are personally fulfilling (activism, cooking, writing), and a job where I like what I do okay and love the people I work with. Roof. Food. Health.

        Looking at the majority of the population in this world, I have wealth and happiness beyond measure. Because I see this, and know this gratitude, I know happiness.

        Thanks for reading! Expat Chef http://expatriateskitchen.blogspot.com

        by Expat Chef on Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 03:27:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • I would refine this to say (0 / 0)

        happiness is a skill.  Miserable and depressed people usually do want to be happy, but they've developed very destructive habits that their loved ones often enable.  Of course, our consumer culture needs us to be unhappy so they can sell us things that will supposedly fulfill us.

    • Think happy thoughts! (0 / 0)

      I have to agree with you in general, but when strangers come up and start pawing at my babies with hands that have been who-knows-where, the irritation boils up before any rational thought processes have a chance to intervene!  OK, so, they're trying to be friendly, they're expressing happinesss or appreciation or whatnot - it's easy to think of it in a positive frame.  But still, hands off, buddy!

      • I don't disagree (0 / 0)

        with you.  And I'd have to say I've never had anyone actually paw my babies or my grandchildren, so I may not know how I would feel about that.  But, I found that how I interact with others directly impacts how I feel in general....so unless someone is truly over the top and I feel somehow attacked, I would do whatever makes me feel well and choose to not get mad or overly irritated or if I felt that, I would try to redirect my thoughts.  

        Cause guess what, the effect of that negative energy in terms of biochemistry and just stinkin' thinkin' does more harm to me than anyone else. I've found it easily can spill over onto others (children or spouse, or out in traffic with irritation that is unreasonable) if I choose to react like that.  Almost as if the negative energy creates more negative energy...likewise if I go positive, I tend to feel more positive energy generated both inward and outward.

        . I realize that this works for me, it may not be a workable choice for everyone.

        • Yes, you are right (0 / 0)

          Interestingly, I've found myself reacting with much stronger feelings to many things since I had kids.  I'm pretty good at redirecting my thoughts, but it doesn't change the fact that those thoughts popped up in the first place!

          • Again I don't disagree about thoughts (0 / 0)

            but would add that perhaps it's the years that have piled up for me that has given me the gift of perspective that I didn't quite have before and the only way to gain that is to have time pass.  I find those negative thoughts pop up far less and frequently they don't pop up  at all.  

            Perhaps that is a gift of growing old(er), we gain the luxury of forming habits and choices that lead us to less angst than when we were younger.  I feel like it's akin to a snake shedding its skin....or sea glass tossed in the waves with the way the ocean softens its edges....i think people are a little like that, we grow better with age, shedding unnecessary or old habits, and gaining insight we couldn't possibly have had before.  With all the physical decline of growing old, it is a welcome counterweight.

    • so true (0 / 0)

      You know, it's really funny. I was thinking about this topic while driving Jess to the daycare centre. I hadn't read this diary but for the headline before leaving.

      I've been feeling really happy and content lately. I'm not bragging or anything, but this is just the truth. I feel so fortunate at this period in my life and enjoying what's going on. I was reflecting this morning on that because I'm not doing anything like what I imagined I would do when I graduated from college; I always imagined myself a hard-hitting foreign correspondent with a flack jacket and in a war zone. Couldn't be farther from that, but I couldn't consider myself more fortunate - I love my family and am loved by my family; I enjoy what I do but it's definitely not my highest priority right now (and couldn't be happier saying that to potential employers). We also have financial security and good health, and I'm mindful of that too.

      I think you're right in that the way you frame your worldview has much to do with how you respond to it.

      • Hi Rachel! (0 / 0)

        I've been offline for awhile.  My Dad fell and broke his hip previous to a trip my husband and I had planned to visit him on the east coast.  We had arranged to go with him to visit friends in upstate Massachusetts and Williams College.  BUT, a few days prior to us leaving California he fell in a grocery store, broke his hip, went into  hospital and had a hip replacement!  YIKES.  I'm so glad my own surgery was well behind me as we could be on hand for him.  We still went, but spent most days visiting him at the hospital.  He had several complications and is still hospitalized.  We've come back home but I'll be going back soon.  

        How are you and your family?

        • oh, god (0 / 0)

          I'm so sorry to hear about your dad's hip injury! I hope his recovery continues without further complications. I was wondering what you'd gotten up to.

          I actually just sent you an e-mail - I hope that it gets to you this time (unlike previous complications!).

          • Great. I'll look for it. (0 / 0)

            Yes, my poor Dad.  He's being a good sport though.  And he is one tough cookie.  He's 84, a cancer survivor, POW veteran - shot down over Germany in WWII.  He seems to have more than 9 lives.  He is quite a character, with a generous heart and when I was growing up a thunderous voice which seemed to loom up all around if you were in trouble...didn't want to cross Dad...nope.

            But now he is a gentle soul pretty much of the time.  He misses my Mom and tries hard to see the good in his life these days.

            Here's a story though.  My nephew is in his last year of college and has had some tough luck most of his life -- his sister is severely disabled, he has learning issues himself, he had scoliosis when he was a junior in high school, had spinal surgery with a full-on body cast. He's had depression issues and had to deal with his parents' divorcing which was terribly sad for him.

            So, last week when we were back east we visited him in a store he works at part time.  He lives with his Mom.  He seemed to be doing well although very sad about my Dad who has been like a second Dad to him....And he is overwhelmed with school so he is taking some time off from classes for now.  He was going full-time at work.  A couple of days ago there was a huge storm that caused flooding where he works to such an extent that rescue workers had use a row boat to save him in the store.  The water was above his waist and all the store's inventory was ruined.  His car was also submerged in the parking lot and is totally ruined.  So now he has no job, no car, and is not in school, and his boss, whom he likes very much, is most likely bankrupt due to no flood insurance.

            But, as he and i were talking yesterday, we were both just laughing hysterically over the audacity and sheer outrageousness of the situation.  He is devastated, but says he'll be fine and will figure out how to pull his life back together.  Can you believe that situation?  Sheesh, too much in one person's lap.

            • holy crap (0 / 0)

              that is a lot of bad $hit for one person to absorb at once. What are the odds?!

              At the very least, is his insurance covering the car?

              • yes...but his friend (0 / 0)

                who emigrated from Poland about 6 years ago has no insurance  and also lost his car to the flood and of course, is now without a job.  Too sad.  Not to mention he has also had huge visa and governmental issues with being in this country due to the imposing of 9/11 restrictions even though he has lived here legally for quite awhile.  

                As a friend of mine recently said, one foot in front of the other, is how to manage the day.

                She would know since in the last year she has just completed being diagnosed with aplastic anemia, searching for a bone marrow donor, finding one, getting the transplant, going through chemo at the highest possible levels for 12 months and at present done with treatment and has had 100% success.  She is age 35.  A warrior for sure.  One foot in front of the other....just like Treigh did. :>)

  • How happy were women in the 50s though? (0 / 0)

    Clicking through to some of the original research, we can find the raw data on happiness (see especially the discussion section on page 18):

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
    Click to enlarge.

    Today, about 30% of people are very happy, about 50% are pretty happy, and about 15% are not too happy.  The differences they are talking about between genders are pretty small.  While this graph shows the happiness gap disappearing, another survey discussed of 12th graders does actually show an increasing gap between boys and girls, with girls less happy.

    Another interesting thing is that the very happy category seems to have been about the same since the early 1980s.  There is a a sharp peak in women's happiness at about 1974.

    This leads to some interesting questions: was the peak because of Roe v. Wade?  Did Roe v. Wade give women enough encouragement about their place in American society to actually increase their happiness?  Without this early 70s peak, the comparison to today's numbers is much less dramatic.

    And this brings up another question:  what would the graph look like in the 1960s and especially the 1950s, the supposed 'golden era' of domesticity?

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
    Click to enlarge.

    Would we see the red line, with women becoming increasingly discontent as more responsibility came with more freedom?  Would we see the blue line, with a general increase in happiness as more choices became available, leveling off in the 80s?  Or would we see the purple line - essentially women were about as happy over the last 50 years, with a peak of enthusiasm during the early 70s.  I have no idea but it is an interesting idea to ponder.  In my family, I think the women had an increase in happiness through the 50s and 60s, followed by a peak in the 70s as they earned advanced degrees and started up their careers after their children grew up, followed by a plateau.

    But then, what exactly is happiness....?

    • Vote (0 / 0)

      I vote for the purple line!  I don't think that they were more unhappy somehow.  

      Very, very interesting that the peak was in 1974 and hasn't gone back to that level again.

    • Maybe it's hope (0 / 0)

      Well, I've got all sorts of views on happiness as a skill and behavior influencing mood. When I work with kids, I spend considerable time teaching them to recognize their strengths and feel proud about them.

      But the 1974 thing. Maybe women felt really hopeful that year in a way we don't anymore.

      • I think you and NJmom might be right. (0 / 0)

        I'm thinking of my grandmothers in the context of the quote in the story:

        women now have a much longer to-do list than they once did

        Just one example - my great-great-grandmother came to this country as a young mother, had to take care of six children, work long hours outside the home, learn English, and take care of her parents and her in-laws.  And taking care of her parents meant returning to the Old World for two years with a baby and a toddler and leaving the rest of the family behind.  And this I know: her story was not unusual, not among my relatives and not in the country in general.  But despite all this, she wasn't unhappy.

        So it is not that the to-do list is longer, it's that each item is perceieved as more demanding.

        My great-great-grandmother did not serve gourmet meals.  She did not shuttle her children to this lesson and that lesson.  She did not have precisely tailored educational experiences planned out for them.  She did not strive to make a great impact on society as a whole.  And I bet she didn't feel guilty about it either.

        Thinking about my great-grandmothers and grandmothers, though, as the family moved into the middle class, they had more time to invest, and their goals changed from simply raising a close-knit family to having "a beautiful garden, a well-kept house and well-adjusted children who did well in school."  Which was all well and good - they had the time for it.  But they wanted a chance to do more.  

        Then in the 70s came hope:  new opportunities would now be available for women!!  Women could change the world, be movers and shakers, make things happen!  And this would have been exciting, right?  It should increase happiness?  

        But somehow opportunities have since changed into requirements - for the upper middle class at least.  And with requirements comes the guilt of failure to meet those requirements.  Because, frankly, I don't think its possible for anybody to be the world's greatest parent, save the world at work, and serve gourmet meals in your immaculate garden every night.  In a designer dress that fits perfectly.  But that seems to be the image of what women are supposed to be able to achieve - at least that's my impression from occasional contact with popular culture.

        And as an aside, what are men required to do according to pop culture?  I'm not too sure, but as far as I can tell, watch football and drink lots of beer....

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