Mother Talkers

Day Care Dilemma

Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 03:09:18 PM PDT

I've got a serious case of the worries today.

The problem: my kid was bitten while in day care.

Not once. Not twice. But three times in three weeks.

The first time I was a little concerned, but wrote it off to toddlers being toddlers. Still, it was disturbing to see the little teeth marks on my daughter's chubby wrist.

The second time, I figured it was a fluke, just an unfortunate coincidence. Plus, I didn't see any teeth marks on her. I didn't even tell my husband, because he had been so upset the first time.

Yesterday, when there was yet another "band-aid report" in her binder at the end of the day, I began to feel the indignation well up in my chest. Especially when I saw the angry red marks on her wrist (same one as last time), and I could actually make out the individual teeth.

The day care staff does a good job, and we've been happy with the care our daughter has received there since the age of five months. But the adult to toddler ratio is 1:6, so there's no way they can keep an eye on every kid at all times.

They won't tell me who's biting her, which is understandable. They won't even tell me if the same kid has been responsible for the multiple bites. What they did tell me is that a couple of kids are having biting issues, and they have spoken to their parents about watching for the behavior at home. I have to assume they're also keeping a closer eye on them while at the day care center.

They also told me that the first two times, the bites were completely unprovoked. Yesterday, it happened while the kids were fighting over a toy. My daughter is 18 months old, with a fledgling vocabulary. I pointed to the bite and said, "Que paso aqui?" (what happened here?). She just looked at it and repeated, "Aqui." I said, "Ow?" and she repeated, "Ow," but otherwise seemed unfazed.

I feel more helpless than anything. I don't know how to advocate for my daughter in this situation. I don't know what's acceptable in terms of her being bitten (is once a month OK? Once a year? Never?) I worry that she will start to bite other kids when fighting over a toy, or for no reason at all. I worry that she will become afraid to go to day care, a place she enjoys so much.

She is only there three days per week as it is. Should we scale that back to two? Should we look for other day care? I'm at a loss.

What say you, MotherTalkers? Any advice for this frazzled mom?

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  • Good luck (0 / 0)

    On my birth club boards, I've seen many parents have to deal with the same situation.  It happens so often, I can only assume that it's a thing with toddlers.  My daughter went through a biting stage from 15 mos. - 19 mos. and we were glad she wasn't in day care at the time because she'd most likely be the biter.  She has been bitten by other children, only once did I come close to beating the crap out of the bitee (she had 2 HUGE teeth marks on both sides of her face), who was 4.  

    Due to work demands, we're placing our 9 mos. old in daycare next week for a few days.  I only hope that he can escape being on either side of the coin.  If the teachers seem unwilling to stop the behaviour then I would suggest finding another place.  Scaling back days would only make it seem like it's happening more if your daughter is still getting bitten.

  • first of all (0 / 0)

    i sympathize with the anxiety, worry and protectiveness that you might be feeling.  and i'm sorry that you have to deal with this.  as with all child care issues, it often exacerbates the anxiety that is already present at some level.

    my kids did not have biting issues nor were they bitten that i know of, but i have certainly heard of and know that biting is a common occurence amongst pre-verbal children.  i have a nephew that was a biter when he was little and he was finally asked to leave the childcare facility.

    i'm a little surprised that you are not being told more regarding if this is the same child biting your child.  have they explained what else they do besides talking w/parents?  how do they deal with the child who is biting?  

    if it continues to happen, it would seem the children who are biting are the ones that need to spend less time in child care, not your child...but that probably won't happen.  

    there is something about biting that really gets to parents on a visceral level....way more than if a child is kicking or hitting or doing other things that are aggressive, even though those other behaviors can be just as intimidating.  i think through the child's eyes (skin), any type of hurtful aggressive behavior falls into the same category.  biting vs hitting isn't probably hugely different to an 18 month old, assuming skin is not broken, etc.

    bottom line, it is up to the provider of care to keep your child from getting hurt as much as is humanely possible...if they aren't doing that, i would look for some other situation.   if they are doing what you consider as much as they can, and sometimes it isn't perfect, then, really the situation is probably ok and not that much different than in other places...with the exception of a adult:child ratio that is much smaller.

    • I will get more info (0 / 0)

      I asked how they deal with a child when they catch him/her biting. They told me they put the child in "thinking time," or a time out.

      I know kids hit and kick and all that...the biting is just disturbing on a different level, as you said. The bite had to last more than a few seconds for those defined teeth marks to be left, and the thought of my child experiencing that prolonged pain makes me want to throw something!

      • Tough situation (0 / 0)

        At one parent & child class we take at the local community college they encourage the biter to do something helpful - for example go get a bandaid to give to the injured child.

        When my daughter has hit (so far no biting) me or someone else we get a very serious and sad look and say "we do not hit (bite/whatever).  It hurts mommy (whomever) and makes me very sad"  

        It's also essential to try to nip the hitting/biting before it happens so I'd hope they're keeping an eye on the biter to try to prevent the behavior rather than just deal with it when it happens.  It's so much better to catch kids while they're being good rather than after they've done something wrong.

        Please rest assured though that biting is quite common and even otherwise charming kids can be biters.  It's reasonable to expect the day care to try to reduce the biting though....

  • When I picked up my toddler yesterday (0 / 0)

    I had to sign two incident reports.  In the first incident, he was the bitee.  In the second incident, he was the biter. Honestly, I'm not too worried about it--I know that he and the other kids will outgrow it.

    He's been bitten about five times (in six months), and I think he's been the biter twice. He bites us too.  Often, it's whenever he's tired or feels he isn't getting enough attention.  His older brother rarely bit, but the older one was also EXTREMELY verbal at that age and didn't need to bite to get a message across--he'd use his words.

    Ok--that's just my story, and doesn't really offer you any help with your situation.  

    I wouldn't look for a new daycare yet, but definitely talk to the center.  Talk to the teachers.  Talk to the directors.  Let them know how much it concerns you.  

    If the biting continues, you may start to feel very uneasy about the place.  If you get to the point where you've really lost confidence in the quality of the care, DEFINITELY look for a new situation--you'll be miserable if you don't.  

  • I agree (0 / 0)

    Our son hasn't been the biter yet. Mostly, I suspect, because his truly aggressive tantrum-related biting has only been going on this summer when he's been home with us. I'm sure if he were in day care by now he probably would have bitten someone.

    He's been bitten at least three times - and once it left a pretty nice mark on his cheek for a few days. While I'd be a bit concerned at the 1:6 ratio, I'm not sure there really is a fix beyond time and parental discipline (surely the DCP is telling the parents of the biter(s), right?). It's a phase.

    I know my son isn't BAD, but that he needs time out when he bites - but I can watch him, and I always know when he's done it. If I had six toddlers? No way.

    I do understand your concern, though. Biting is scary - the rage on his little face is spooky. But I know he's working on how to express his anger which is normal for a toddler. We're just trying to find ways that don't involve teeth. :)

    When he had the bite on his cheek, he also had two black eyes - both self inflicted. Poor kid looked like he'd been in a bar fight!

  • Ay, poor Maya! (0 / 0)

    Amy and I have been lucky -- knock on wood -- with no biting. Hitting, yes. (My son the perpetrator.) But, thankfully, he hasn't bitten anyone and neither has Jude.

    I do find in the instances in which Ari hits Jude -- usually it's over a toy -- I give him timeouts. Also, there's no way around it: it requires a lot of adult supervision so I am constantly hovering over Ari and his playmates to make sure he doesn't hit anyone.

    Sometimes I take Ari home when he gets too aggressive with Jude. Usually Ari cries his heart out, but at least he is learning that that is a consequence when he doesn't play nice.

    I am so angry for you because Maya is such a calm girl and I think I would be livid if Ari was coming home with bite marks. Because you don't know who the parents are -- I am not sure how you'd handle it. I agree with a poster above that it seems to me the kid needs less time in childcare not Maya.

    How about asking the daycare not to leave Maya unattended with that child -- or not allow that child to play with her? Maybe some time in isolation will force the biter to learn some consequences? I don't know if this is feasible with so many other kids. But, it would make me feel better. (KIds at this age do snap for no reason. Ari does it, which is why I don't leave him out of my sight.)

    Girl, I'm so sorry. Give Maya a besito from her tia.

  • I know its hard not to (0 / 0)

    worry.  I certainly did when my daughter was bitten.  Her little shoulder had a bruise for a week,  so I know it was pretty serious.  Her school was very clear with us as to how they handle it - the first time a child bites a note goes home, the 2nd time a child bites a note goes home and the parents have to speak with the director of the school. the 3rd time the child finds another preschool/day care.  We were not told who the child was, but a few weeks later a little girl was asked to leave so I presume since there was never another biting episode that she was the responsible child.  Isabelle suffered no ill effects from the experience.

    I can so sympathize with your feelings of powerlessness, of wanting/needing her to be there even the few hours a week for her good and yours (yep I am assuming and laying my own experiences here) and yet worried about her suffering.  I would encourage you to speak with the director and find out their explicit policy concerning bites.  I would also let her know that you feel especially  3 bites in 3 weeks is too many.  I would then listen very carefully to what she has to say and see if it gibes with how you percieve a day care/preschool facility should respond.  

    I would also speak again with her teachers and ask them what they would suggest that your daughter do to avoid being bitten and share that you are concerned.  It is really their responsiblity to watch for this behavior.  

    Now my other experience....lol from the other side.  My son was very aggressive when he started preschool last March.  He was defensive and possessive, a whole ball of bad behaviors.  I was embarrassed and felt totally powerless to stop it.  He wasn't like that at home.  He was verbal but had trouble at school saying what he needed and more importantly how he felt.  They actually suggested he come more often, so I added a day and he got over it in about 2 weeks.  Boy were those few weeks the longest ones.  I would come in and find out he had pushed someone or taken a toy or had to sit in the "library".  Hard, very hard....parenting is so hard and yet so rewarding....

    • AIN'T IT THE TRUTH! (0 / 0)

      so hard and so rewarding...yup, that's it exactly --- it throws our hearts wide open.

      great advice above.

    • wonderful, sensible advice (0 / 0)

      especially the part about asking them if there's anything at all I can do to help this situation.

      I don't want them to feel attacked or come across as an unhinged Mama, but I won't stand by and let some kid use mine as a chew toy, either, and the day care staff needs to know that.

  • I'm so sorry! (0 / 0)

    It must be awful to feel, on some level, that Maya wasn't being protected.  Like Karen said, a child being bitten is a very hot button for parents.

    Biting is a very normal developmental phase, but nobody wants their child on the receiving end.  However, although it may not seem like it, I do see it as a sign of professionalism that they aren't telling you who the biter is.  It can feel especially galling, since you know that Maya would tell you if she could.  But I worry about the quality of a center when they do tell (and some do).  You do have every right to know what their policy is, and since this is a common issue, they should have one.  The teacher or director should be willing to talk with you for as long as you need to feel safe.  If she generally seems to be happy and comfortable where she is, though, I would move her.  At her age there is probably a biter in every center, and changing day cares would probably be harder on her than being bitten.

    • No, they shouldn't tell you who (0 / 0)

      One of the reasons is that sooner or later every kid bites someone else...usually not serious. I would chat with the providers and find out not only what their policies are towards biters but how they handle the bitee afterwards. That can be very reassuring. Remember that it's not a personal attack. They outgrow it pretty soon since the behavior is not reinforced at the center and hopefully not at home. I had to work one weekend with my son around biting and that's all it took at that age.

      Just for point of reference, much more serious is a child who hits and scratches (to leave marks and draw blood) without provocation at age 4 or 5. That's a sign the child has some real issues going on and I'd expect the center to take more action with the parents.

  • Three Strikes . . . (0 / 0)

     . . is the rule at most places I think. Many moons ago I used to work in a preschool, and it was the rule there. We recently had an issue with a little boy in my son's preschool biting my toddler HARD on the stomach - breaking the skin, big angry welt, yikes. The teacher said that every school is required to have a biting policy, and that most places have something like this:

    1st bite: A note is sent home with parents with some information about strategies to help the toddler learn other ways to express themselves. Closer supervision.

    2nd bite: Meeting with parents, second warning, more supervision

    3rd bite: Biter has to leave the school.

    So anyway, you may have two different biters, therefore neither one has had three strikes.

    Alos, teachers are not supposed to tell who the biter is. Being bitten is your issue, so they discuss that with you. Biting is the other parents' issue, so they discuss that with them. They are not even supposed to tell the biters' parents who he bit.

    Once they get a little older, the kids spill all the beans anyway. ;-)

  • toddler behavior - will be outgrown (0 / 0)

    My son had the same experiences at day care around age 2 -- he only goes 2 days a week. Twice he was bitten and once he did the biting... It sounds like your day care handled it professionally, but if you need more reassurance -- ask for it!

    Once his class turned 3, the biting incidents went away (the graduated to hitting each other and getting time outs... then they quickly learned to communicate).

    Funny thing with that stage is all of the kids (my son included) didn't want to leave time out! It seems that the challenge was learning how to let each other know when they wanted to be left alone -- with words, not actions...

  • As a child, I was bitten so badly (0 / 0)

    by my babysitters' son that I have scars on my wrists.  My mom was slow to take action, unfortunately she didn't have many options.  
    So when I came face to face with my son biting me, I was tough, REALLY TOUGH.  Every time he bit me, I told him that biting something was dirty and we had to wash away the germs.....with vinegar!  A little on the gums for good measure.
    Three times was all it took and the threat of it was enough until the phase passed. My daughter started too about the same age as Zion, 17 months old.  Two times was all it took for her.  I've never been bitten since and we've never had a problem at school with either of them.  Thank Jeebus!

    A mother understands what a child does not say.

    by flower patch on Sun Aug 13, 2006 at 05:35:25 PM PDT

  • we've been there (0 / 0)

    our son's preschool room went through a rocky phase with some bullying behaviors from one kid in particular. Our son was likely to either be the target, or get sucked in by that little fucker.

    Isn't it amazing how, when they're only 3 or 4 years old, you wind up thinking that way?

    Our daughter was also scratched, by another toddler, when she was in the younger (13mo - 2 yrs) toddler room - one of the scratches has left a faint line just below her eye.

    I think biting is pretty standard - lots of kids do it. And when they get older, you'll know which kid it is - mine were both able to verbalize very well about who was doing what (and what happened to that kid as a result!).

    Our daycare is on-site university day care - more expensive than others in the area and "different" in terms of philosophy of childcare, so the families there are really making a commitment and it would be hard to assume that really varied parenting styles are truly the culprit. Sometimes kids'll just be kids.

    More importantly, IMO, is how the center is handling it, and whether they're keeping the lines of communication open with you. They probably can't tell you the name of the other child - confidentiality laws apply - but there should be a handbook that specifies what reprucussions happen, and in which order. They should also be monitoring when and under what conditions the other child bites, working to eliminate those, communicating their changes, and above all, being open to your suggestions for how to improve the situation.

  • Normal toddler behavior (0 / 0)

    You've gotten all the advice I have to offer, here, but I'll offer it up again because I'm the mom of a biter (actually two biters, but my second son was worse).  

    First, rest assured, biting is totally expected behavior in toddlers. It usually stops when the child becomes verbal (and more understanding of the verbal concept of "wrong.") But it can continue until a child is 3 or 4, out of habit.  My second son, still, occassionally, bites his brother (after being punched or pinched) and he bit me last June.  He knows how bad it is, but it sometimes gets away from him when he is really frustrated.  Right now he is operating under the "no birthday party if you bite again" threat, and it seems to be working...

    Anyway, as you've heard, most daycares/preschools have a biting policy, and it should be in writing.  Ask the school for their policy, and make sure you are comfortable that they are following it.  Also, ask them how they separate and watch the children after a biting incident.  Retribution is not unheard of.  Also, they should have a space for physical separation.  My son could not play with another child at all for a while in pre-school, because they antagonized each other so badly (not just biting but, knock-down drag-out brawls, and both were at fault.)  They still go to school together (they are 7), and are in an afterschool program together, and I regularly remind the care-givers that they have "history" and to separate them as necessary. (They are good friends, most of the time, its a love-hate relationship.)  So, you'll want to know how they separate the children, and you'll want to insist on consistent separation if the problem persists so the opportunity doesn't come up for another bite.

    Finally, it doesn't take a sustained bite for a mark to show up.  The mark, and the teeth, can be from a relatively mild bite, but broken skin is another problem.

    An anecdote.  About a week after my older son started pre-school (he was just over 2), I went to the school for a special event and walked in just in time to see a pretty little girl being led off with a bite-mark on her finger, from my son.  I felt horrible.  About 2 years later, they decided they were going to marry each other, and that phase lasted for about 2 years.  Now they are in 4th and 5th grade, she is our carpool buddy, and they bicker like brother and sister.  Neither remembers the bite, except I remind them occassionally, when they bicker too much, of the auspicious start to their relationship.

    Its normal, and it passes like any other phase.

    • what great comments (0 / 0)

      the sustained relationship reminds me of a time when my son and his nursery school friend (girl) happened to be in a car together and she handed him her very special doll to look at.  both were strapped into car seats in the back.  so, i'm driving along when suddenly i see through the rear view mirror my son checking this doll out and then promptly heaving it out the window!  

      there were a few tears that flowed and some explaining to do  as we made the U-turn to go back and get the doll.  but that story has always cracked us all up in the retelling --- the 2 of them remained friends and are both in college now.  our memories as moms are much keener than the kids ever are, it seems.

    • It is expected behavior for toddlers. (0 / 0)

      Very thoughtful advice here. I would also ask - and this might require getting more info from the daycare provider - what does the daycare do to teach appropriate behaviors. Biting is basic toddler behavior because toddlers haven't learned other ways of expressing their frustration. The biting behaviors lessen as kids get older because they become more verbal, but their is nothing wrong with talking to toddlers about their behavior.

      Obviously, kids have to be separated when the offense occurs, but there are plenty of opportunities when kids are in better moods to role play being frustrated or talk about what we can do when we are frustrated. I would expect the daycare providers to be verbalizing for the toddlers like, "when I'm angry I bite a pillow" or "when I'm frustrated I ask a teacher for help". It also works the other way (for the bitee) - "when someone tries to bite me I say stop". (or walk away for those who are non-verbal)

      Whatever it ends up looking like daycares should be consciously promoting positive social behaviors and not just daily damage control.

      • i wonder if there will be (0 / 0)

        more interest as this generation of kids is growing up or being born using and/or teaching signing as a pre-verbal tool.  i hear of it more and more and have seen it in action with my granddaughter who is 1.  she uses various signing to communicate. it seems to help her tremendously through frustrations related to lack of verbal language.

        as you say above regarding ways to minimize these biting occurances, I wonder if this could be a tool that daycare providers could encourage and also use on site....it would seem useful to all involved.

  • Biting at the day care center (0 / 0)

    Pardon the tardy response but my life got in the way.  This is an important issue.  Both of my kids were in day care operated by a local church.  The rules were posted, simple and enforceable. These rules were in full cooperation with the strictures necessary to get and maintain a license.

    Biters were removed from the school. No excuses such a teething or cutting some slack due to toddlerhood.  Very often the care givers counseled the parents that the biters usually misbehaved in this way because they were not ready for the day care experience which would mean keeping the biters at home until they were mature enough to associate with other human beings. Mom, you should not have to remove your child.  The biters need to be removed.  If the school doesn't see it your way, question their licensing and even call the licensing authorities but don't pay them another cent and, sadly, find another better day care center.

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