i cuss all the time. it is pretty ridiculous. and not so bad as it sounds, because i also am known for using lots of legitimate words people have to look up in the dictionary or ask me to define.

i just get fired up. i do not ever directly cuss to my son, and i do try to temper it. i am terrible when driving, to where i have even heard my son say to a car in front of us, "just go, lady!" (yikes!)

the main thing that i try to focus on is context and content. we do not ever use words against one another in our house. calling names like 'stupid' or telling someone to 'shut up' to me are FAR more harmful than the frustrated expletive.

speaking of which - )()(#%&)@(#$&_@#(%(@# - i am having a shitty day. so there!

ok, i've almost stopped laughing - poor little mr apricot.  but the guy's comment at the end of the article about using the picture in question of little mr apricot with the caption 'screw oranges' is classic.

i'm reminded of when my son was maybe 9 or 10.  during a conversation we were having (where i'm sure i must have been imposing some god-awful limitations on his self-described schedule of fun), he began rubbing his temples using only the middle finger of both hands...holy shit, i pondered, was he trying to tell me to fuck off?  

the only recourse i could think of at the time was to mimic his behavior knowing that if he wasn't aware of what he was doing, no big deal, but if he did know......

and i confess, i am not a big potty mouth since my late teens, and so now, when i do use expletives, my kids lose themselves in giggles - they are 15 and 19.

recently we were playing scattergories and i had to come up with "something you yell" which started with an "m" --- you can imagine my daughter's surprise, when it came to yelling my word "MOTHERFUCKERS" in the middle of the game ---
consumed by gales of giggles, she nearly rolled off the couch....

i'm glad this is one aspect of parenting i do not have to consider too much any more....so fuckin' A, do whatever feels right.

Another item to consider when it comes to language and the use thereof:

For those of you who watch what you  eat, here's the final word on nutrition
and health and the possibility of language as a percursor to death. It's a relief to know the  truth after all the conflicting medical
studies.

1. The  Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
Americans.  
2.   The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
Americans.  
3. The  Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks
than  Americans.
4. The  Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer heart
attacks  than Americans.
5. The  Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats and
suffer  fewer heart attacks than Americans.
CONCLUSION: Eat and drink  what you like.  

Speaking English is apparently
what kills  you.

My mother used to tell me that ignorant people used foul language because they could never think of an appropriate word to express themselves. What the f*** does she know?

some funnies about this on her blog

http://www.dooce.com/...

I've never been good at keeping myself from cursing in front of my son and I have a pretty nasty mouth. Like a previous person said, I never curse at my son (or at anyone else, really). So far we've just explained to our son that some words are "grown-up words" and should only be said by grown-ups. It's worked like a charm so far. That tactic probably won't work everyone, but it works well for us.

being a little further upstream in these things than you - ours is now 11 - I can tell you that you're not doing those of us who have watched their mouths any favors. I keep my viewing habits to myself but one night our son wandered into the living room while I was in the bathroom. I was under the impression he was asleep, but he got up to get a drink of water. On the tube was Deadwood and I found him watching Al in full roar.

I shut the tv off in haste.

He said, "I know those bad words, the kids at school use them all the time. They learned 'em from their parents.

Thanks.

Thanks loads.

from a friend:

While driving with her 7 year old daughter in the back seat, she was cut off by another driver.  

Friend:  (muttering) Stupid bitch!
Daughter:  Ooo Mommy!  You said stupid!

I definitely had potty mouth but wanted to stop.  We used a cuss jar with sliding scale punishments depending on the word, and repeat offenses within a limited time frame upped the ante (there are several $20 bills in there).  We told ourselves we would send the money to the worst place I could think of to make it work as a real deterrent--the RNC (Republican National Committee).

It worked.

But the money--and we're talking several hundred dollars here--sits in an envelope at home.  I could never bring myself to actually send it to them.

On HBOs Entourage where the agent is with his kids and wife, and realizes somethings amiss b/c his boss is there.

Now this guy drops the F-bomb like its 1945. However its priceless to any adult when he says it in front of his kids...and has to say, "Now children thats a daddy word, only daddy gets to say that."

Okay its better on DVD.

I tried!

to be embarrassed to death. You're little darling will have perfect timing in using the F word in a public place while you are trying to impress others. On the other hand, children understand early on when it is ok or not to swear. When my son was four, he asked me one day if he could say "shit." I paused a moment and thought, well, his dad says it all the time. I don't want to be hypocritical. So I said, "You can say it at home but not at Calvina's." (Calvina was the daycare provider.) "Oh, I know," he replied, "at Calvina's you say, 'God Damn it."

We did try to watch our mouths when the kids were very small. Still, between my husband and his mother (who swears like a sailor), Words Not Repeatable In Church were acquired by our sons.

When the first said, "Oh, damn!" one day I looked at him and said, "M, you know there are things you can't do til you're bigger, right? Like driving the car?"

He nodded solemnly, and repeated that he had to be as big as his cousin L (sixteen) to do THAT, or he'd be in trouble with the police.

And we went over that you had to be as tall as the mark on the wall to cook on the stove, so you could reach things properly and not burn yourself, and he nodded and agreed.

And I explained that that word was a way that adults got anger out when they were very frustrated, and that they weren't to be driven by little boys. He could use "darn" instead.

The bonus of this method is that one can then look over at a small child and say, with great placidity, "P, you aren't old enough to drive that word. 'Fudge', please." It takes all the fun out of shocking the parents with it. (grin)

And it seems to have worked so far (11 and 6)

A: Yes.  Maybe more than I'd like to.

My wife mutters "fuck!" as she parallel parks.  Then my son later says "fuck!"  while I am parking!  Like it's what you say when you park.  I laughed.  He now has a better understanding of the word and no longer (mis)uses it.

Friend says 'as long as they don't use it with me...'.

My wife and I have never refrained from swearing in front of our daughter, now 11 years old. However, NEVER have we sworn AT her (or at each other, for that matter). My wife in particular finds it impossible to drive a car without colorfully cursing all other drivers on the road.

But our daughter understands quite well when such language is appropriate -- at school, in public, in front of other adults, or at grandma's house. So far she's proven very reliable in sticking to that. But she'll shout "son of a bitch" when getting killed in a video game at home, or wax poetic about what an asshole George Bush is (I wonder where she picked THAT up...?)

We all have that "internal mental filter" we engage for speaking to strangers in "polite company" so we don't blurt out "Jesus motherfookin' Christ" at a job interview. With our daughter's case, it seems to be working as well as any adult's.

When you have a child, things change. You begin to re-think everything, beliefs, denials, you name it. Your childs' personality is already there and it will only be clear to you as they grow older and you look back at photos and videos.

No one wants to hear a child say a curse word, especially daycare, school, out in public. They pay attention to your every word even if it doesn't look like it. I mean, that is how they learn their language, by listening.

So much to worry about as a mom and if you'll make the right decisions while raising them. This one is easy...don't do it. They are a gift, precious. The least you can do is watch your mouth.

dont want to make it taboo, but i probably exaggerated how much i cuss in my first post because  my day has been so hard.

if i hear my son say 'damn' or the like when he cant get a toy to work, i immediately follow up with a more appropriate word, or let it slide. it only takes a few times of replacing with darn to help him (and me) form a better habit for those frustrating moments.

i also find that giving him the actual words for the emotion are helpful, though he is still a little reticent to tell me he is mad or angry at me. this is despite me driving it home that he can be mad at me and i will still love him. this is one of the most important lessons my mother taught me. i am sure that will come in time, including, "i hate you mom!"

i do not even like using 'stupid' for inanimate objects. dumb, idiot, etc... they just seem like such put downs, i have never liked them.

I did not do too much when my kids were little but now, well, I outdo my son a little.  My daughter (both are in their 20s) is a little more moderate/genteel, whatever.

Once when they were little and playing across the street, the father from that house came over and asked my husband and me which one of us swore "like a Banshee."  I had to confess.

I think the important thing, as someone wrote, is teaching them when it's OK and when it's not, and they have to have some level of understanding and maturity, as well as inclination to cooperate, in order to follow those rules.

Sometimes I find myself trying to find creative new ways to use bad words.  Hey...at least this stretches the kids' creative skills, right?

I did keep it to a minimum when my kids were small.  Never a problem with the girls.  Dare I say it?  I think boys are born with a "cuss gene".  From the time they were school age, its like they had a natural desire to be potty mouthed.  We didn't freak...we've just always maintained a rule that some things can be said in the home but not in public.  We also drew the line between "bad words" and true obscenity.  As my kids became teenagers and older teenagers I would often remind them that using too much profanity just indicates poor verbal skills and laziness.  

I work with preschoolers and you can kind of get an idea of what the home climate is like by listening to them.  I remember a 4 year old boy pulling a girl off a trike and saying, "That's what you get, bitch!"

I talked long and straight to this child's mother, who was in a violent relationship and felt really powerless to leave.  I tried to use her son's adoption of the abuser's language to give her a little more incentive to make a change.  I was trying not to guilt-trip her, but also letting her know that little pitchers have very big ears.

I also remember my mother telling us when we were kids that we were allowed to say "hell."  No more H-E-double hocky stick.  It was such a thrill!  And then we got over it.

I swear like a sailor now, but I really try to tone it down around my son.

you could try growing up.

watch Deadwood on a regular basis. Only idiot-box I watch. It's f*cking brilliant! ;-)

I grew up in a family that did not swear.  When my Dad was mad, and we heard damn, it was the end of the world.  That happened maybe less than a dozen times in my whole life.  Each event was actually something pretty serious.  That the worst I ever heard from my Father, the word damn.  My mother never swore.  I did as a teenager.  But I got to the point where I learned to stop.  Then I joined the Army and they broke me down to the point it all came out.  But I got it back together and stopped.  I made the effort to not swear in the Army and was pretty good in the attempt.  It drove people crazy that I didn't.  But it did get me a lot of respect as well.  When I got out of the Service and went to college I had no need to swear.  But I ran into an old girlfriend and we eventually got married.  She didn't wait until we got married as she promised to have a kid.  So I learned not to trust the her on the pill.  But that is an other story.  But once together she showed her true colors.  It continued after we were married.  She was as nasty a mouth as anyone I've ever heard.  She had also kids from a previous marriage.  She swore in front of them, and at them all the time.  She didn't do this in front of me when we were dating.  We also had two daughters who have had to endure this kind of lanuage.  When her oldest son swore for the first time in front of me it was verbatum what his mother always spewed out of her mouth.  I once even made a large banner that said "please don't swear" with a bandaid on it to get my message across.  I still try my hardest not to swear, especially in front of kids.  Now her kids are grown and out of the house and all swear too much.  My 17 y.o. daughter is too much like her mother and a real potty mouth.  My wife swears at just about everything, often for no reason.  I pity our dog, as it usually gets the first of the morning curses.  Dogs are funny, because it is so loyal to my wife and gets so much verbal abuse.  I guess it helps if you don't understand the lanuage.  If it wasn't for the kids I would have left years ago.  But they seemed to have been stratigically planned.  I came close several times and could have taken my girls away from the endless vulgarity, but didn't.  No matter what, my wife is still their mother.  I put up with it as best I can.  But it is real hard.  My grandfather is the one who got me to thinking years ago.  He told me those that swear are too stupid to think of something better to say.  Besides being just rude.  He was right.  I've learned to come up with something better to say more times than not.  Often it is humorous in nature, or a pun.  Still, I was lucky.  My parents didn't swear.  

Years ago, I was visiting my family with my potty-training toddler, Nora. She disappeared into the bathroom and then reemerged in the living room, naked, hands on hips. "Okay," she barked, "Where's the fucking toilet paper?!!" Oops. My family burst into laughter, and my self-rightous brother ripped into me: "How can you laugh at such behavior?!" I shirked: "Kids say the darnest things!"

Short of keeping your kids locked in a dungeon, you'll never be able to prevent them from being exposed to swear words.  I myself first started using them as early as second grade, though I didn't feel comfortable using them in everyday conversation until five or six years later.  By the time I was in high school, my parents, realizing the foolishness of it, lifted the swearing ban in my household.  Surprise, our relationships became closer, as both parents and children were able to speak to each other as they would speak to their peers.

Which leads me to my broader point: for what reason would you speak to a child any differently than you would speak to a peer?  As several other commenters have said, so long as you explain to them the concept of swearing, and the proper contexts for its use, what exactly is the big problem with swearing?  They're just words.  If you teach them properly, they'll never swear in any situation where you wouldn't.

This argument falls along similar lines as arguments made by child psychologists who discourage "baby talk."  Studies have shown that "baby talk" hinders a child's linguistic development severely, and can lead to speech impediments or even learning disabilities, especially when parents use it almost to the exclusion of normal language.  I would argue that placing an unspoken ban on swearing also hinders a child's linguistic development, though not as severely.  Why create an unneccessary taboo when you can simply teach them how to swear: they're going to do it anyway, might as well use some parental judo and roll with it.

but have to say something. I've settled for "For Gawd's sake!". Not God, I hasten to add, but the London-style Gawd which has no religious meaning.

This is all very well but it is very disconcerting when you spill cornflakes all over the floor and hear your 32 month old mutter through gritted teeth say: "For Gawd's sake!"

But that is the way it has to be, as I just can't not say anything when I do things like that!

Daddy is pulling out of our alley to take Willie to day care one morning.  There's truck blocking his path.  He says, "Oh, f*%^."

Willie is in a parroting stage.  He says, "Oh f*%^?"

Daddy says, "Oh TRUCK.  I said 'truck.' There's a truck blocking our path."

Willie says, "Oooohh."

I just had another thought and I could use some input.  Is the word "fart" a bad word?  My mom and my MIL claim it is.  MIL wants us to use the (I think) absurd and ambiguous verb "puffing" to mean the same thing. Puffing, I say?  WTF is that?

Willie has already incorporated "fart" into his vocabulary and uses it in situationally appropriate ways (e.g., "I'm not pooping.  I'm just farting.").

So, to fart or to puff, that is the question.  What do you think?

I had a family which used a lot of swearing and generally had what I call "emotional incontinence." Just let any old thing be expressed. Now, I have similar traits, but with a son who naturally has a hot temper and low tolerance for misbehavior of others(he will tell me to ram other cars who are in our way, for example) I have decided that I need to be the one with CHARACTER and DISCIPLINE, in other words, the parent.

It is not easy, but I ask myself daily if I want to raise a verbally abusive little smart ass or a kid who can hold his tongue, use appropriate words, and find a way to understand others instead of just swearing at them? Hey, I am 54 and mad as anyone else at Bush, but when my son suggests that Bush should be beaten to a pulp, I remind him that Bush is an adult who makes BAD CHOICES and we always wish him well, to make GOOD CHOICES instead.I don't want him to think (when he is seven) that some people are a lost cause- because to me, that leads down the road of racism and bigotry.

My husband and I had to decide early to find mild substitutes for swears - many came from our son's preschool, calling farts "foofs" was a big success. He did not switch to farts til the first grade, when making art farts was the height of boy humor. I will still use the word "foof" with him. When he is mad he sometimes says "CURSE YOU!" like he hears in cartoons, but when he asks me what it means, I tell him that when we wish harm and suffering to someone, that is what a curse is. I ask him not to say curse words(and yes, as another poster mentioned, my son also thinks "stupid" is a curse") and just try to get him to say what he is bothered by, not just call names.

I am not saying this cures him - as I mentioned, he has a natural tendency to be judgemental and harsh. I can just model the best behavior I can.

Of course, once in awhile he says something mean and I just say, "Oh, please don't say that - you kiss your MOMMA with that mouth!"

But now at least it's not 'flavoring' our speech (e.g., "I can't believe how fucking dirty the kitchen is!") but rather expressing shock or pain (e.g., "SHIT! THAT HURT!")

The other day I was at the grocery, and having buckled my son into the car I was returning the cart to the nearest cart return. It was hot, I was sweating in a black shirt, and I was rushing to get back to the car. The cart return was too full.

"FUCK!" I said, and as I looked up, I saw the horrified face of a 4-year-old, and the bordering on genuinely angry face of his father as they got out of their car. I actually began to try to explain myself (why?!), but he rushed his son along like they had to avoid the axe-murderer lady.

I felt sheepish but even more mad. I'm six months pregnant, dammit, and the cart return was full! My toddler son is sitting in the hot car and I don't want to go back, unbuckle him, and carry him back into the store to take this freaking cart back! That's a moment for an expletive if ever there was one!

I am pretty good at putting on a 'professional' mouth for work and so forth, but that incident made me realize that I need to be more sensitive to others around me in all situations. Dammit.

My husband loves that part from the move "Old School" and wants to use it with our son.  I was definitely not allowed to curse as a child, and my parents made it very clear that any cursing they did was an adult privilege only, and never taking the Lord's name in vain.  I think that's why I went through a period in 5th or 6th grade where I had the filthiest mouth on the playground.

I'm still fairly free with my language, but like many of you, now I'm more concerned with context.  I don't think I'd mind if my kid said "shit" if he banged his finger in a drawer, but I'd be terribly upset if he called a little girl a bitch.

But kids do go through phases when they're trying to test or shock you.  One evening when my niece was about five, she turned to my husband and said "piss."  He said very calmly, "That isn't funny."  Then she came over to me and said the same thing.  I said, "Nobody thinks you're cute when you do that."  She never did it again.  However, I learned later that she was fond of saying it in front of her mother, who would fly into a panic like it was the end of the world.  Guess the kid got the reaction she was looking for!

Nothing like being told it isn't cute to curb a little kids behavior! Good call!

Generally, we tell our son (8 years old) "it's inappropriate to say that" if he uses a swear word, if he talks back, if he contradicts us, if he says something inappropriate to his younger sister.  Sometimes we'll add "those words are for when you get bigger". It a generaic phrase that avoids the guilt of "good" or "bad" language, and leaves open the possibility that in some situation it just might be appropriate. We feel that this defuses the situation. It also provides a structure for guiding non-swear language (like, say, demanding or disrepectful phrases).

However, he does read a lot. He picked up "blast it" from Sherlock Holmes (or it might have been Moby Dick, or Treasure Island, I'm not sure). It's really funny to hear him mutter "blast" when he's trying to build something with Legos. He picked up "you fool" from the Redwall books (and when I heard that, I told him it was inappropriate, especially since only the bad guys in the stories say that phrase). He will occasionally say "damn", but usually when he's alone.

It's worked pretty well. I think he understands that context matters. He also understands that there are things he's not allowed to do "until he gets bigger" (like wear his hair long like his father, cook, work with power tools, etc).

So far my daughter hasn't started using inappropriate language, probably becuase she's heard my son begin chided for it.

We rarely use insulting language of any kind to each other, so that kind of use hasn't really been a problem with my kids.

We homeschool, so they are not exposed to the language of other kids very much. By the time we send them to school, I think they'll be old enough to understand that context matters.

-Corinna

Great thread, and a topic on my mind quite a bit these days as our daughter becomes more verbal.

I've noticed in these comments that the most frequent trigger is some trivial aspect of the driving experience (getting cut off, parking space "stolen," the car in front of you not peeling rubber the second the light turns green, etc.).  Our daughter's first curse was when she was in her car seat.  My wife hit the horn when we were stuck in traffic, and from the back we heard "asshole."  Which I think is the point.  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with most "dirty" words, but cursing overwhelmingly occurs in response to a mildly aggravating situation, and models petulant anger and lack of self-control.  

In the typical car scenario, it is not hearing any particular word that is destructive, but hearing the angry tone, seeing the finger, the violent gestures, the angry faces, pounding on the horn, drivers yelling at each other, tailgating, etc.

I don't really care if my daughter learns most words (for me, racial/ethnic/religious slurs remain taboos).  I very strongly DO NOT want her to learn that the way to handle frustration is through self-indulgent, petulant anger and lack of self-control.

The notion that profanity can only be a substitute for a proper word and a marker of low verbal ability is absurd.  On the other hand, the notion that we are all a bunch of George Carlins, turning cursing into high art, is equally absurd.  Having a daughter has made me reevaluate my cursing, and I now do it much less over all, and very rarely in front of her.  More importantly, I try very hard not to model anger and loss of self-control over trivia.

Well, I won't have a kid of my own to swear in front of for 2 more months... but I did just get back from a week with my husband's family, including his 6-year-old nephew who's just discovered the joy of bathroom humor.

My husband's family is quite conservative and religious. My husband claims that he's never heard either of his parents swear in his life, and that he's never sworn in front of them either. (Wow.) The 6-y-o is the only grandchild so far, and his parents and grandparents have adopted a "zero tolerance" policy toward his rude language. We're not even talking F-bombs here; the kid can't even say "poop" or "butt" without four adults jumping down his throat and threatening him with timeouts.

The strategy has completely backfired. The 6-y-o now talks of nothing but poop, farts, and butts. I can't tell if it's the normal love of bathroom humor that every 6-y-o boy has, or the fact that he's an only child, and will use any means necessary to keep the attention on him, even if it's negative attention. All I can say is that the more he gets yelled at for his potty mouth, the more he does it.

In my 3rd trimester perfect-parent fantasies, I don't intend to swear in front of my kid (My husband and I are trying to transition to the "Oh sugar!" "Oh fudge!" exclamations that we remember from our own childhoods - they're hilarious!) or to let it slide when they start swearing. cynmill's reaction (i.e.: no freakout) seems to be the way to go, however - the less attention the kid gets for being rude, the better.

all this talk about language, reminded me of when our family was involved in a local  community swim team.  there were about 240 swimmers each summer that would span the ages between gutter guppies (3 years - 5 years) and older swimmers up to 18.

in all the years my kids participated in this sport on this particular team (over 10 years), the language used poolside never included swearing -- i look back and think of that, and it seems amazing....but

the team often used email as a way to communicate lots of info - updates, revised scheduling for practice etc...

one day i opened an email which had been sent out to the entire team --- we're talking lots of families -- the email was flowing with wild and what i considered, hateful language.  one of the male coaches (then a student a princeton) was emailing his college buddies about an upcoming trip they were all taking to las vegas and all the "bitches and whores" they were going to encounter and "entertain" and be entertained by.  the email was filled with content that was clearly hateful and in my view disgusting.  it was such a shock to me and took me days to figure out my reaction and feeling about this person and the fallout from the unintentional emailing to the whole swim team list.  i felt really angry at the time and in some ways the emotion was tied to my wanting to rail against that kind of terminology for my daughter's sake.

a week or so later, i ran into a different coach whom i admired a great deal (she also happened to be a student at princeton).  i considered her to be very intelligent and i wondered what she thought of this email and the language that was used in it.  i had assumed that she would be offended.  

and yet, this very smart, beautiful, athletic young woman told me she wouldn't necessarily be offended by that language.  it would depend on who said those words and in what context.  i was blown away.  i couldn't imagine the context that would make that language ok ....i felt and still do feel that those kinds of labels/words are filled with hate and demeaning messages.

i feel sad for all our daughters who are growing up during a time when being called bitches and whores is as if those words mean nothing at all.

i couldn't disagree more.

My kids are all on high school. They hear me curse all the time. Mostly the f-word as in "my head is going to fucking explode if I hear George Bush speak another sentence, someone shut him the fuck up"  

and

"These refucklifucks are determined to bring the end of the world on"

it's like that. But it is SITUATIONAL.

the thing is? Before the run up to the iraq war, I was extremely conscientious about my language. But as the lies increased, so did my vulgarity.

I lament very often that I long for the day that there is no more righteous anger -- because that is what this is about -- and that my vularity will dissipate relative to justice being done.

The comfort is this, though: I live in affluent suburban maryland and my clients -- many of whom are moms with elementary school kids, CATHOLIC elementary school -- are just as bad if not worse. I heard a mom who is practically known as a saint use the word "fucktard" and "god-damned"  a few weeks ago. I. Was. Floored. And I have a client who is 87 years old Irish and Catholic, she gives me a look if I let the word "shit" slip out. Well a month ago she referred to her ex-daughter-in-law as a "bitch".

I could not fucking believe it. I've known her for six years and she never so much as used the word "hell" even as a reference to a location. Now she's a liberal, an FDR liberal and if she's feeling it and expressing it, than I know I'm in good company.

I never heard my mother say anything stronger than "son of a gun!" growing up.  Then she married my stepdad, who introduced her to The Sopranos and Deadwood and she has learned how to correctly drop the f-bomb in appropriate situations.  Pretty funny.

I've adopted all of her non-swear expressions in front of my son: lord love a duck, for the love of pete, son of a gun, shoot, and when I'm really upset, gosh darn it!

Then again, we don't have HBO yet!

I believe that swearing and what used to be called "obscene language" has gone through a period of social change in recent years.

For most of my life (I'll be 67 this month) this kind of language was used only by men with other men. It was totally unacceptable around women and children. "Nice women" did not use this kind of language at all, ever, unless it was in the bedroom.

My two eldest, now in their early 40's, do not swear in everyday speech. My younger two, in their 30's, do swear and use "colorful" speech but have NEVER DONE SO in front of their mom (me).

My "baby" daughter, now 19, however, has been using the "F" word in casual conversation since she was in junior high and has refused to watch her language at home. Her father, who has always used this kind of language because it is "manly" has been horrified, shocked, and disappointed that his "little girl" would talk this way. As I said above, in our day "nice women" didn't use that kind of language.

So swearing, in my opinion, is going through the same social process that short skirts on women went through in the 1920's, and long hair on men went through in the 1960's. These were major changes in social custom and caused huge inter-generational stress in families at the time.

While swearing is becoming more socially acceptable in everyday society, it still hasn't reached "the tipping point", and this debate here reflects that.

My advice to young parents, if you all don't mind being lectured by a senior citizen and grandma of five as well as a mom of five, is to ask yourself if you care if your kids use those words.

If you don't care, then it's not a problem. If you do care, watch your speech. The old "do as I say, not as I do" doesn't work. You as parents are the role models for your kids. You will have more influence on them than anyone else, for better or for worse.

If you don't care most of the time but would be embarassed if Junior swore in front of grandma, at pre-school, or at the store, etc; then you probably are still conflicted about it and need to sort out your attitudes.

You really can't have it both ways. Perhaps when the kids are older, you can explain that it's okay in certain situations but not in others, etc. But this won't work with small children.