Mother Talkers

Yes, Grace Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus

by Lisa in Austin

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 10:21:03 PM PDT

My twins, Grace Virginia and Michael Lane, turned 10 on Wednesday. And, much to my surprise, they still believe in Santa Claus.

Michael asked questions last year when we were on or way to visit Santa. "I wonder what would happen if you didn't believe in Santa?" he said. I used the tried and true mom method " what do YOU think would happen?" "Well," he said, "I don't think you'd get as many presents."

I thought I knew where this was going. I was sure he was testing the waters to see if it was okay to say he didn't believe. "Oh, I don't know, I think you'd still get just as many presents, just not from Santa," I said.

That was it. End of discussion, and it hasn't been brought up since. I figured he was afraid to take a chance so close to Christmas, and it would come back up later. Nope. This year I asked them, "do you want to go see Santa?"  Both did, and both worried and fretted all the way there about what they were going to ask him for.

I was quite surprised to learn that many of their peers still believe, too. One mom told me that her son recently told her that the Easter Bunny was not real but if Santa wasn't real "it would be the biggest lie ever!"  So, I wondered about kids elsewhere. Are our kids more sheltered somehow? We live in an upper middle class neighborhood but the kids' school is fairly diverse.

So, what do you say? Do your kids still believe, or when did they stop believing?

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  • Point (0 / 0)

    I'm not there yet, but I am at the point with my oldest that we could introduce the idea of Santa, or just say that we give the presents.

    I'm kind of torn on it.  I could just not mention it and say that we give them (in other words, don't say Santa doesn't exist), but then if he hears other kids talking about it, will he think he is missing out?

    And then I kind of feel like we're setting them up just to find out these magical people don't exist.  I was kind of sad when I realized that Santa and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy weren't real.

    Tough one.

    by NJmom on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 07:55:52 AM PDT

  • What I tell my 7 year old daughter is (0 / 0)

    "Santa is real if you believe in him"  and honestly I believe it.  What's wrong with believing in a little magic. And the other thing I told her is that even if she doestn' belive in Santa it's ok to believe in the idea and the magic of that kind of joy and possibility.  

    Katie

    by MKatherine1966 on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:07:32 AM PDT

  • Santa and the (0 / 0)

    yearning in all of us to believe in goodness and magic, generosity and a kind spirit.  Just the thought of it makes me breathe deeper and feel relaxed.

    i think that for all of human history people have developed myth, fables, stories, etc. to illustrate what we might hope for or believe in.

    in my limited experience with my own children, and watching other families, i loved children believing in Santa, their anticipation, their pure joy and delight at the surprise and unexpected pleasures that their imaginations stirred -- too soon reality will come knocking at each of our doors.  i like the idea that kids experience the unadulterated joy of that time in their lives.  

    my children figured out on their own as they grew how presents came to be under our tree (recognizing my handwriting, even when i tried to make it different, was one way)....but not before many years of putting cookies and milk out for Santa, and my arranging them just so to be discovered the next morning with the fireplace screen knocked over and a note from Santa beside the half eaten cookies and the glass of milk emptied....squeaks of delight would come from both kids as they were enveloped by their own sense of glee.  even when my son, who is four years older than my daughter, understood what was happening, my dd went on believing.  she could have guessed differently, but  she chose to believe.  i found that is true with lots of kids - they decide even in those young ages, what they will believe, or not...i tried to "flow" with what my children seemed to want to understand each year.

    those are precious moments imo.  ones i sure wouldn't want to have missed for me or them.

    karen

    by karen m on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:36:03 AM PDT

    • word! I think we should all believe in Santa (0 / 0)

      and the tooth fairy a little longer...

      I have one friend who said 'I will NEVER lie to my child" when her dd was born (HAHAHAHAHAHHA said I but that's another story) and flat out told them Santa was a lie.

      To which I said "you fool..Santa is the best reason to get to eat cookies guilt free each Christmas eve!!"

      by MKatherine1966 on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:53:55 AM PDT

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      • Free cookies and a month of good behavior (0 / 0)

        Our kids are deep in the throes of believing in Santa, which is cool, because as a Jew, naturally I didn't believe in him at all when I was a kid. It is a great little device when I'm not getting cooperation.  "Daddy's going in the other room to call Santa!"  "Waaahhh, nooooo!!! Noooo Daddy nooo!!!!  I'll go to bed, okay, just DON'T CALL SANTA!!!!"  ROFLMAO.

        So, I have two kids who consider themselves Jews and also believe in Santa.  Weird, eh?

        Anyway, this year, they both wrote letters to Santa (Eli dictated his).  Miles got a letter back from Santa, which was amazing!  He had put his return address on his letter.  Eli hadn't done that and didn't get a letter back.  Very Sad!

        Miles and His Favorites: The World As Seen By an Eight Year Old

        by Hillary on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 12:33:23 PM PDT

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    • I so agree (0 / 0)

      I really want to instill magic in my daughter.  The mother in "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn" makes a very good case for telling kids about Santa.  Maybe I'll post it later when I have time if people are interested.

      by Erin on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:12:49 AM PDT

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      • yes! yes! (0 / 0)

        I always loved that part of ATGIB, which is one of my favorite books ever! The whole thing about giving children something to believe in and a sense of magic! Erin, I think we actually communed some time ago about a mutual love of the book, right?

        by Rachel on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 02:11:02 PM PDT

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        • Oh, yes! (0 / 0)

          We talked about it a few months back.  I always remember the part where Mary gives Katie all that advice on how to make sure Francie has a soul.  Instilling magic and imagination...I know some parents object to this sort of magical thinking (including Katie, at first), but childhood is supposed to be filled with wonder.

          Here's part of Mary's advice:

          "The child must believe in him until she reaches the age of six...Because the child must have a valuable thing which is called an imagination.  The child must have a secret world in which live things that never were...when the world becomes too ugly for living in, the child can reach back and live in her imagination."

          On finding out he doesn't exist:

          "To first believe with all your heart, and then not to believe, is good too.  It fattens the emotions and helps them to stretch.  When as a woman life and people disappoint her, she will have had practice in disappointment and it will not come so hard.  In teaching your child, do not forget that suffering is good too.  It makes a person rich in character."

          I remember both those things all the time.  Betty Smith, page 75 in my addition.  That book is so brilliant!

          by Erin on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 03:50:24 PM PDT

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    • amen, Karen (0 / 0)

      A sense of wonderment and magic and giving and caring are things we all like to encourage in our kids. Can't wait to introduce Jess to the wonders of Christmas. This year, she's aware (18mos), and says things like "Dat's Sanna Tlaws Dere," when seeing Santa at the mall, but she's a bit too young to understand it all. But the wonderment is there - the largest department store in Australia, Meyer, does its windows to the same fair-thee-well as Saks and Macy's in NYC, and we went to see them early on in the season. It was a holiday nativity play theme, with Santa's elves working below the platform on things like scenery, costumes, etc. Jess was overjoyed by the elves and kept exclaiming over the "little men." Tooo cute.

      by Rachel on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 02:15:17 PM PDT

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  • We're just at the point (0 / 0)

    that we are doing Santa for the first time. We're not even Christian and we're all about Santa. When I was young we'd get up on C-mas morning and see all of the toys Santa left-- they'd be all set up and running (e.g., race tracks; trains; etc.). Later when I found out Santa wasn't real I didn't say so for fear that I wouldn't be able to experience the joy of running in to see what was under the tree. My childhood was full of bad stuff and this is one of the few joys I always remember.

    "We've GOT to make noises in greater amounts! So, open your mouth, lad! For every voice counts!"

    by progressiveinky on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:01:48 AM PDT

  • oh, I remember the betrayal (0 / 0)

    of learning there was no Santa, but somehow my parents managed to grieve with me in a way that made me not feel betrayed by them, but by the rat-fink siblings who told me.

    I suppose I thought about not 'doing' Santa for a bit, but when it came down to it there was really no question in my mind. Though we're still working out/working on figuring out what the spiritual side of the holiday will be, our kids will definitely get gifts from the fat man. I think my husband would feel cheated if not.

    by betsybflynn on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 09:36:13 AM PDT

  • Question for Jewish MTs (0 / 0)

    I could use some insight about this. I've written a bunch of times (in the circ thread) that my dh and ds are Jewish. We plan to celebrate both Christian and Jewish holidays ... we are not religious, but thinking cultural education and family and just for fun.

    But Santa .... my dh's mother was the only person in her entire family who celebrated Christmas. They had a tree and Santa was part of it. (And her father refused to come into their house when the tree was up .... good times). Good friends of ours here do not celebrate Christmas and just shake their heads about my dh's mom insisting, stubbornly, about Christmas.

    I'd like to skip Santa and focus on a more general spirit of giving as part of this Christian holiday.

    But I'm curious how Jewish families explain to their kids how many of their classmates believe in this guy, but he's not real or he's .... what?

    Thanks tons.

    RachelD

    by RachelD on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 10:14:56 AM PDT

    • My son (0 / 0)

      who is an online playgroup pal of Mkatherine's daugher, sees Santa and Christmas as sort of a curiosity associated with "other" kids and families.  I've just said to him that we don't celebrate Christmas or Santa, but that many of his friends do.  I've been afraid that he's going to tell someone that Santa isn't real - especially when we had a deep philosophical discussion about fantasy/reality and supersition.

      To be honest, Santa doesn't come up in conversation much.  He's caught up in his own life - school, family, Hannukah, friends, etc.

      This year we are going to my MIL's for the first time to do Christmas - but again, my son sees it as something related to her and not us.  He knows Dad used to believe in Christmas, but hasn't pushed it too much.

      The Tooth Fairy OTOH, still lives in our house.  First and Second Grade are very busy times for the TF.  Seth has told me that he wants to "test" if the tooth fairy is real, by putting a tooth under his pillow without telling me.  That way he'd know for sure if it's me or a fairy.  He's not quite ready to let go, but his logical side is tugging at him.

      Reminds me of when we went to Disney when my daughter was 5.  She "knew" Mickey was pretend, sort of, but insisted that it was "really" his house we visited.  We just left it all without comment, and she was happy.

      by Sue in Queens on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 12:18:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Clever experiment (0 / 0)

        I'm smiling over the test of the tooth fairy :).

        It sounds like we can compartmentalize Santa if we decide to "do" Santa .... Santa can be about my parents, who are the ones keen to keep doing Christmas anyway.

        Thanks, Sue.

        RachelD

        by RachelD on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 05:27:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • santa belongs to christmas here to0 (0 / 0)

        my son is 5 and is going through this phase of wonderment of the xmas lights. It's also the first year he has gone to a non-jewish daycare in 2 years -- so first time he is conscious of xmas and has it in his face. In fact, he brought home a stocking made from construction paper which is part of their learning about all holidays. Still hard for me to deal with, but it's important to me that he learn how to deal with xmas from the start. We are talking a lot about how Santa is part of Xmas which is not something we celebrate. We are very careful to talk about Hannukah -- not as a Xmas-wannabe holiday but as part of the Jewish calendar year, in Jewish terms. By the time we light the 7 Hannukah menorahs, he pretty much forgets about Santa.

        by brave on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 06:24:26 PM PDT

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  • I've wondered, too. (0 / 0)

    My youngest is 11, and this is the first year she has admitted to not believing in Santa.  Our 14 year old son hung on til just about 2 or 3 years ago, too.  My older kids believed until about 9 or so, if I recall.

    I've been very surprised by this.  People in my age group rarely believed after 6 or 7...in fact, the odd child who believed past 8 or so was the butt of jokes.  Ofcourse, back in the 60's we were going through a "reality" phase...you know, the one that says that children must be told the "truth" about everything lest they stop trusting adults altogether.  I recall some children having elementary school teachers telling them that there was no Santa.

    by tjb22 on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 11:19:51 AM PDT

    • That's where I am coming from (0 / 0)

      I was in third grade at Christmas 1969 and that is when the little ratfink in my class said "James still believes in Santa Claus." I remember being heartbroken at the moment, and asking my brother later on the school bus [he is one year older] but I don't ever remember being upset with my parents.

      I think 8 was probably the outside age of believing in our day. But we have friends now who told their son the truth right before he started 6th grade, because they were afraid he would get teased in middle school for still believing.

      I find it an oddity that in this day of kids often seeming to grow up too fast, that the belief in Santa might last longer. Interesting.

      by Lisa in Austin on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 06:18:30 PM PDT

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  • My daughter figured it out (0 / 0)

    when she was about six or seven. She asked me point-blank in such a way that I had to tell her the truth, but also indicated she could handle it. So I said no, there's not really a Santa, BUT you have to promise me NOT TO TELL YOUR BROTHER. (He's three years younger and still believed.) "Oh, don't worry!" she said -- it was really important to her to respect his beliefs in that, and she also had a lot of fun for the next few years being an "accessory to the crime".

    I myself blithely wrote letters to Santa forever. There came a point when I was about 10 when my mom and grandparents consulted with each other. "Do you think she knows? Should we say anything?" None of us ever brought the subject up, and indeed I first heard this story when my kids were going through the "is he real" phase themselves :)

    by Debbie on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 12:24:22 PM PDT

  • We Believe (0 / 0)

    I have a 10yo son and 5yo daughter, and the 10yo is deep into believing in Santa. I thought last year it was going to pop, but he's still in the thick of it. He's a sweet kid, and my money is on my DD figuring it out first.

    He's asked me a few years ago if Santa was real, because classmates had said he wasn't. I did the old "what do you think?" But he wanted to know what I thought, and I said I do believe in Santa. (Not lying exactly, since I do believe in the magic and the spirit.)

    By the way, we used to take the kids to see Santa, but when dd was 2, she wouldn't go to him, so we stopped the whole thing. My kids write letters to him instead. I'm kinda sad I don't have the history of photos of the kids with him, as I only have about 5 years of my son with him. Then again, the Santa near us is kinda boozy. ;-)

    by Melissa on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 03:07:30 PM PDT

  • You know (0 / 0)

    it just crossed my mind that a friend of mine recently told me that her husband wants to tell their seven-year-old that there is no Santa.  Why?  Because he feels the child is spoiled and wants it to know that they are the ones who buy all the toys.  I find this odd.  What do you all think?

    by Erin on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 05:31:28 PM PDT

  • I was about 5 or 6 (0 / 0)

    when my big brother ruined the fun of Santa for me. He didn't say there was no Santa, instead she SHOWED me where the presents were hidden. They were all wrapped and everything in early December. I didn't let on to mom and dad about this. The following year, we scouted out the hidding places and my parents had padlocked the door! hehe. I guess they found us out.

    But, they went a long way to make the magic of Santa happen. One year (before my brother ruining all of the fun) I spotted some cartoon themed C-mas wrapping paper that I HAD to HAVE! I think it was Strawberry Shortcake. But I was concerned, how would Santa know to wrap my presents in that paper? So my mom suggested that we leave the paper in the garage with a note for Santa's Elves. She said that he sent them to do stuff like this. And the next morning the paper was gone. My eyes were wide with wonder. Ooh! The elves really took the paper! Cool. And C-mas morning all my presents from Santa were wrapped with my special paper. I was so happy. Then we went to my grandmother's house. I was really confused when my presents from my grandparents were wrapped with my speacial paper too. (Mom & Dad bought and wrapped those also) My mom was quick again to say that Memere and Pepere bought the same paper that we put out for Santa because they thought I would like it. She must have breathed a huge sign of relief when I bought it.

    Jen in NJ

    by littlepear on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 06:34:32 PM PDT

  • My 10 year old believes too! (0 / 0)

    I am fairly sure that it was at 10 that my oldest stopped though. I fully expected Alex to not be there anymore this year. Not so! And I am so pleased :-) He does tend to be gullible though!

    Trees, Flowers & Birds SanDiegoDem on all other blogs!

    by Christina on Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:56:07 PM PDT

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