Mother Talkers

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  • With each day .... (0 / 0)

    ... I get more and more scared of Hillary.  This weekend (up until today), she threatens nuking Iran, IF ..... (they nuke Israel?  What else?)

    Huh?  To me, that is F-ing scary.

    I realize that some of her comments are just pandering/politicking, but it is getting scary now, to me.

    by Shell on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 06:30:37 PM PDT

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    • With each day (0 / 0)

      I get more confused by Hillary.  I don't know if anyone has discussed the Bosnia thing here, and I don't mean to bring it up as a political distraction, but I just don't get it.  WTF?  

      I haven't read too much of the coverage on it, so I could be missing something, but Hillary's answer in the debate was so weird.  Basically, "I may be many things, but I'm not stupid," and then "I lied," only she said it fancy.  Why would she tell a lie that there was so much documentation to contradict?  What else does it indicate but stupidity, or self-destructiveness?  

      Hillary supporters?  What's your take?  I'm just curious about the whole thing.

      Simone (1/04) and Milo (9/07)

      by Erin on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:26:15 PM PDT

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      • eh (0 / 0)

        As an HRC supporter, I just thought it was a politician misstatement, but nothing that big or important.  

        I think they all pols say stupid things sometimes.

        by NJmom on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:47 PM PDT

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        • I hope that's it (0 / 0)

          we surely don't need more "bomb Iran" rhetoric.

          by Rachel on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:36:13 PM PDT

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          • Good Lord NO (0 / 0)

            I can't say that I'm especially bothered by the Bosnia comments from a political perspective.  I'm not exactly an HRC supporter, but I think she's very competent and if she's elected will make a good president.  I'm more concerned about how many people hate her.
            The Bosnia line, like I said, just leaves me confused.

            Simone (1/04) and Milo (9/07)

            by Erin on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:51:37 PM PDT

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            • I have an opinion (0 / 0)

              but I'm respectful of HRC supporters, so I won't make it.

              The more I think about it, the worse I feel about the bomb Iran statement by HRC. After seven and a half years of living outside of the US, it amazes me how warlike American political rhetoric is, and how free American politicians feel to threaten military reprisals at the rest of the world. It simply isn't done elsewhere. Not in France, not in the UK (not even in the wake of the July 7 2005 bombing), and not in Australia. I don't think the average American or the average American politican realises how casually aggressive Americans are, and how much resentment and fear it engenders.

              Iran exists. A lot of people may not like the theocratic regime, but it's there. At the moment, Iran doesn't apparently have a nuclear bomb. What's going to work better - threatening to bomb an entire nation (and let's remember, we're the only country that has used nuclear weaponry on another, so even if it's an empty threat, it still means something) if it attacks Israel, or conversing and trying to behave as if we are all neighbors on this tiny planet of ours?

              by Rachel on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:18:59 PM PDT

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              • You are so right (0 / 0)

                these aggressive statements are stunning, as is the widely accepted idea American lives are actually more valuable than others.  You're almost considered subversive if you point out otherwise.

                Honestly?  Maybe I shouldn't say this.  But here goes.  Barak Obama wouldn't say that.  I think he will be leaps and bounds better at diplomacy than HRC will, and we desperately need to establish some goodwill with the rest of the world.

                Simone (1/04) and Milo (9/07)

                by Erin on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:09:29 PM PDT

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              • And yes (0 / 0)

                Iran is there.  It's full of people.  Many of whom probably don't like the government.  They don't deserve to be destroyed.  It is not acceptable.

                Simone (1/04) and Milo (9/07)

                by Erin on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:17:25 PM PDT

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                • ITA (0 / 0)

                  I think at one of the debates Obama even said that the US should talk directly to Iran - remember how much flack it cost him?

                  by Rachel on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:21:31 PM PDT

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                  • Yes!!!!!! (0 / 0)

                    Know what I would like?  I would like to have Rachel (and other non-America-dwelling Mother Talkers) write about what citizens of other countries feel about America.

                    I have talked to Americans who have traveled to other countries recently, and most say people of other countries are friendly to them but I would like to see how citizens of other countries REALLY feel about this -- and other things.  Like Bush being in charge for 8 years, with no stopping him.

                    by Shell on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:31:46 PM PDT

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                    • To be honest... (0 / 0)

                      A lot of people are a bit scared of Americans. In that perplexed terror you have when you've got a pitbull on the end of a chain and you're not really sure if it's growling because it wants to kill you or if it really just wants to play. I spend a lot of time saying "We're not all like that. Only the scary minority have loud voices...most people are just like you." But the TV that we get doesn't support me...

                      Mum to DD, born 6/04 and DS, born 4/06, and no more!

                      by aussieyank on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 11:53:21 PM PDT

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                      • I know (0 / 0)

                        And I feel the exact same way.  Do I think most Americans are "good"?  Yes.  But I also see a herd mentality.  One that makes good people "go with the flow" because it is popular.

                        And you can tell your Aussie friends that at least one American feels the same way that they do -- only in spades.  I live here -- and am scared, too.

                        by Shell on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:37:22 PM PDT

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              • I understand ... (0 / 0)

                ... why she probably said it.  She was pandering to the Pennsylvania voters (who are more "conservative" than most).

                But criminy!  She said it several times -- it wasn't a slip of the tongue.  AND, as many others have said, people the world over heard it.  I think she is trying to make herself look "presidential" ... by being "tougher" than Obama?  Is she kidding?  How far has America gone downhill that a candidate thinks you have to seem butt-ass crazy (with nukes!) to win an election?

                Also, on the Bosnia lie, she said it numerous times -- neither that nor the Iran thing were slips of tongue.  And that rather scares me, too.  This isn't 1992.  Does she understand the "internets?"  Does she realize how easy it is to bring up footage of her saying these things from the 90s?

                by Shell on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:27:07 PM PDT

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                • all I'm saying is (0 / 0)

                  she got called out by Sinbad...

                  by Rachel on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:49:26 PM PDT

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                • There have been plenty of things (0 / 0)

                  that Obama has said and done, that people have gone back and taken a look on the internets and have found not to be true.  Doesn't he realize this as well?

                  Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                  by 1plain1peanut on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:36:43 AM PDT

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                  • I keep hearing this .... (0 / 0)

                    ... but never hear any specifics.

                    Give me details!

                    by Shell on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:38:39 PM PDT

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                    • Okay... (0 / 0)

                      Here's one...a copy of Obama's Handwriting on a questionnaire supporting total handgun ban.  From the last debate:

                      Gibson: But do you still favor the registration of guns? Do still you favor the licensing of guns? And in 1996, you - your campaign issued a questionnaire. And your writing was on the questionnaire that said you favored a ban on handguns.

                      Obama: No, my writing was not on that particular questionnaire, Charlie. As I've said, I have never favored an all-out ban on hand handguns.

                      Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                      by 1plain1peanut on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:09:56 PM PDT

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                      • OK (0 / 0)

                        Although I don't know if this is Obama's handwriting (or a handler's), I will assume it is his.  This would be called a flip-flop.  That is quite different than blatantly lying numerous times.  (And shrieking "Shame on YOU, Obama!")

                        Can you see the difference?

                        Just turn the tables.  What would happen to Obama if he did the exact same things as Hillary has done?

                        by Shell on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:18:08 PM PDT

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                        • No I can't (0 / 0)

                          No, my writing was not on that particular questionnaire

                          How is that flip flopping?  He said it wasn't there but it's there.  Flip flopping is saying something and then changing your mind.  

                          Oh... and who is shrieking?  I think this discussion is pointless.

                          Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                          by 1plain1peanut on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:33:15 AM PDT

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                          • Shrieking (0 / 0)

                            Hilary, I think she's referring to Clinton in that press conference she gave here in Ohio - the whole "Shame on you, Barack" but I don't recall any shrieking.

                            And, yes, the gun control thing would be lying (or forgetting) or something.

                            And, yes, this discussion and the other one on the Open Thread are indeed pointless...

                            Aren't you SO GLAD you came back??? ;-)

                            ~J

                            Mom of two - Sally (4-02) and Sam (8-04). Sam has a central I.V. line & a g-tube.

                            by GiGi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00:15 PM PDT

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                    • How 'bout his statements that (0 / 0)

                      The Selma march resulted in his conception (even though he was about 4 year old at the time of the march) or the Kennedy family having paid to bring his father to this country (his father was already here when the Kennedy family became involved in the program).  There are others - these two (in addition to the one 1p1p posted about) are the ones which came to mind without a Google search.  

                      I find it hilarious how people can turn a blind eye to the mistakes and faults of their candidate while vilifying another candidate for similar errors.  

                      For the record, I voted for Obama in my precinct caucus and will happily support whichever candidate gets the nomination - well, maybe not as "happily" as I would have at the beginning of this primary race, as I've been extremely disappointed by the conduct of both campaigns (and campaign supporters) over recent weeks.

                      boy 9/85, girl 4/98, boy 3/00

                      by TeachPeace on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:11:38 PM PDT

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              • She's trying to prove (0 / 0)

                that she's "tough".  And honestly, I can understand why a woman running for president could feel the need to do this.  However, I'm also a bit concern that this perceived need might actually cause her to ACT more quickly should she be president.

                by tjb22 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:31:10 PM PDT

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                • the thing is (0 / 0)

                  this election is being very closely watched overseas. On the one hand, sure, why should a candidate care about what the rest of the world thinks of her; it's the electors in the US who matter.

                  But on another level, this incoming president is going to be severely handicapped on the international stage by what Dubya et al have done over the last eight years. We aren't even the Willy Lomans of the world anymore; we're just not liked.

                  I think there's a fatal conflation of "tough" with "must threaten to use the big guns." I think it takes a much tougher person to say, "we are citizens of the world and it's time we acted that way."

                  by Rachel on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:48:52 PM PDT

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              • I think the statement (0 / 0)

                was more about a specific situation.  I don't believe she'd be holding her finger on the button, so to speak just waiting to push it.  I think she'd be using diplomacy first... and NOT the way that GWB used it (in his threats to the UN before attacking Iraq).  

                I'm thinking of Clark here and how he operates... and he's got her ear.  I'm still holding out hope for a Clinton/Clark ticket.  Those two would not jump at war w/o exhausting all other options first.

                Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                by 1plain1peanut on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:34:16 AM PDT

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                • Hilary (0 / 0)

                  I hope you're right. But the fine nuanced argument isn't what was broadcast here in Australia; it was "Hillary Clinton says she will bomb Iran if it attacks Israel." I heard that and my heart just dropped. She is a smart, smart woman who is running while touting on her understanding of foreign policy; does she not comprehend how her statements are going to be interpreted in lands friendly and not so friendly?

                  I will say, our PM Kevin Rudd considers himself a FOHillary, and I'm cool with Kevin Rudd.

                  You know that I mean this with no disrespect and with the sure knowledge that I will vote for Hillary if she is our candidate. But more assertive language is not what we need now!

                  by Rachel on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:49:40 AM PDT

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                • Hilary (0 / 0)

                  any chance Clark would run with Obama should Hillary not get the nom? I really don't know who else can give the military cred that the Dems need to compete.

                  Mom of two - Sally (4-02) and Sam (8-04). Sam has a central I.V. line & a g-tube.

                  by GiGi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 12:45:01 PM PDT

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                  • Good question (0 / 0)

                    A lot of people are asking that question... especially some old Clarkies from '04 who are supporting Obama.  I really don't know.  Part of me feels like he's thrown his support behind Hillary so vigorously, that Obama wouldn't ask him.  But... politics makes strange bedfellows.  

                    I will tell you this.  Though I can't speak for General Clark, he has always put his country first and his life has been about service to this country.  If he got the call, I'm sure he'd seriously consider it.  

                    Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                    by 1plain1peanut on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:13:11 PM PDT

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                    • That would be great (0 / 0)

                      I would love to see him as VP no matter who the Pres is...

                      Mom of two - Sally (4-02) and Sam (8-04). Sam has a central I.V. line & a g-tube.

                      by GiGi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:14:20 PM PDT

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                      • Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (0 / 0)

                        Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                        by 1plain1peanut on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:18:39 PM PDT

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                      • Well... so much for that (0 / 0)

                        Obama's campaign has started whisper campaign against WKC...

                        Clark has been at the top of the pack of Clinton's military cadre, appearing with her at major foreign policy addresses and surfacing in rumors as a possible running mate.

                        Yet Clark could pose a potential liability among Jewish voters, just as the Jewish Rendell poses a benefit.

                        At least, that's something the Obama campaign is quietly suggesting, mentioning Clark's name as Obama himself comes under attack for ties to people who don't sit well with certain segments of the Jewish community.

                        Clark's actually part Jewish. (His father is Jewish).  

                        Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                        by 1plain1peanut on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:44:15 AM PDT

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                        • Ugh (0 / 0)

                          to whisper campaigns whatever their ilk. Clark will come away unscathed, however. It's just a bummer because this seems to signal that he will not be a part of the Obama cabinet should that come to pass.

                          Mom of two - Sally (4-02) and Sam (8-04). Sam has a central I.V. line & a g-tube.

                          by GiGi on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:03:27 PM PDT

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                          • The thing is, (0 / 0)

                            it's already been discussed and there was a HUGE brouhaha about it. They called him antisemitic. People on the blogs defended him for the most part and screeds were written about it.  He finally met with the head of the AICAP and was pronounced by him as not antisemitic...like he ever was.  

                            You're right... it is a bummer....for all of us.  

                            Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

                            by 1plain1peanut on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 12:27:46 PM PDT

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                    • I would love to see him (0 / 0)

                      as VP, Sec of State or Sec of Defense. ITA with you on this, Hil.

                      by Rachel on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:33:29 PM PDT

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      • BTD (0 / 0)

        Sums it up very nicely here and here.  It's about understanding what she's saying.  

        Mom to Grant, 8 and Madeline, 5 1/2

        by 1plain1peanut on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:46:00 AM PDT

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