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Sure, "negotiation" isn't the point here. Of course we're not going to be able to negotiate with the U.S. military to not recruit in Berkeley or any other town.
The point is to choose the most effective means of persuading 1) potential military recruits that they don't want to join the military and 2) the general public to pressure their elected officials to end the war (or vote them out and replace them with officials who will end the war) There are two audiences - the group whose behavior you are trying to change, and the general public, whose support you need.
I think part of the reason MLK's tactics were so effective was that the American public could see a group of people who wanted equal rights so badly they were putting their bodies and lives on the line and marching together. It tapped into the David vs. Goliath story on some level, and the general public started to get the point.
Another example I can think of is the mothers of the desaparecidos in Argentina. They danced publicly and silently with photos of their missing loved ones. Again, the world saw this and got the point.
There's no imagery in Code Pink's protests so far that has that power. Unfortunately, they come across as adversaries, as opposed to advocates.
This isn't the 1960s, and mass protests are not materializing. There's got to be another way to win hearts and minds. And something is happening - the majority of the country wants the war to end. They need to know what the next step is -- not just see tactics that they can't relate to.
by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:11:16 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
segregation viewed him as an adversary? Most americans still don't know who code pink is. Mass protest haven't materialized yet. It doesnt' mean they won't. There is no law that says they can't.
Reducing military recruitment is the next step and they can't know about it unless code pink and those of us who agree with them continue plugin away and pissing the right people off.
Mainstream politics hasn't thus far worked. Pelosi and Reid are disappointments. Reducing military recruitment will force their hand.
If you find another way, tell us, in meantime, stop the handwringing over those of us willing to do something tangible. I am sick of people who complain about doers like code pink, while the sit around banging on keyboards.
by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:27:29 PM PDT
Feel free to stop replying to me then.
I have made some concrete suggestions in this thread:
If you don't think those suggestions will work, feel free to explain why, but don't just dismiss them as "handwringing."
I would appreciate it if you'd provide some evidence that Code Pink is actually changing anybody's minds or persuading anybody outside of the Bay Area of their point of view. The fact that you haven't speaks volumes.
by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:43:21 PM PDT
You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. MLK was inflammatory.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zXEIYpnlxbw&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zXEIYpnlxbw&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:51:13 PM PDT
Here is the link.
http://www.youtube.com/...
by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:53:41 PM PDT
Yes, Code Pink "does things". However, one of those things needs to be to PERSUADE PEOPLE THAT THEIR POINT OF VIEW IS THE RIGHT ONE. All evidence suggests that that's not happening. (Believe me, I wish it was.)
Oh, and you probably just need to send a link to the video -- doesn't look like you can embed Flash code here.
by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:56:41 PM PDT
I don't have my reading glasses right now, so I am making typos. I don't have a problem with provocation. King made a lot of people very unhappy. He was considered maladjusted by the majority including white liberals. .
by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 04:01:26 PM PDT
Who are the right people?
Bunch of dudes from Danville and Tracy in camouflage hats that like to punch skateboarders and get into shouting matches with Medea Benjamin?
And what does that accomplish?
by Amy on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:22:34 PM PDT
I think most people can tell the difference between protesting recruitment and protesting the military. I don't know why it is desirable to continue the Iraq war as a college opportunity.
There are some military that maybe offended but I suspect they are largely right wingers. Veterens for Peace also supports counter-recruitment.
by Dameocrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:40:19 AM PDT
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