Mother Talkers

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  • The Berkeley City Council (0 / 0)

    1. ...have succeeded in making people upset with THEM, as opposed to the war
    1. ... have given the 'wingers some new talking points
    1. By their own admission, they weren't expecting this level of reaction

    I'd say they didn't realize how this was going to play out on the national scene.

    We're not arguing, I don't think, about the central point -- this war is bad and military recruiters shouldn't be lying to entice kids into joining. However, I think we do disagree about tactics. It looks to me like this one backfired.

    Code Pink is a different story. They aim to provoke with political street theater. They may be happy with all the attention, but unless they can prove that they actually changed people's hearts and minds, this has all been pointless. I think all that's happened is that it's reinforced people's current ideas on the subject. Sure, I don't think they hate our boys and girls in uniform in the least, and that's a 'winger slur, but honestly, I don't think anybody's getting that nuance.

    p.s. Country Joe MacDonald -- he of the "Fixing-to-Die Rag" is staying well away from this one.

    The issue has very little to do with the Marines and a lot to do with political grandstanding and NIMBYism, McDonald said.

    "The council said the Marines can't recruit here, they should recruit somewhere else," he said. "And if there's a problem, we still want you to help us. It's astounding. It allows everyone to make fun of Berkeley again."

    He said protesters on both sides are driven by "civilian guilt."

    "Most people yell and scream about this issue because they're trying to show how patriotic they are," he said. "At this rate, Berkeley's going to be a damn noisy place."

    by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:16:19 PM PDT

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    • the same statements were made about mlk (0 / 0)

      he wasn't popular with mainstream politicians.  the purpose of direct action is to provoke debate.  I don't think it created backlash among any groups that weren't inclined toward backlash against antiwar protesters to begin with.  All the groups that spoke to them were outside right wing groups.

      by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:21:47 PM PDT

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      • Code Pink is no MLK (0 / 0)

        MLK made a real point of staking out the higher ground. He used peaceful action and words of reconciliation. He recognized that he had multiple audiences and he chose to take approaches that would win over the majority of Americans over time, by speaking of universal shared values.

        Yes, he also advocated civil disobedience, but he had no expectation that any city council was going to give him a parking space!

        by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:34:33 PM PDT

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        • code pink are peaceful as well (0 / 0)

          I don't believe they did expect the council to give them parking spots.  The council just did it.

          Here is MLK from "Letter from a Birmingham Jail"

          You may well ask: "Why direct action? Why sit-ins, marches, and so forth? Isn't negotiation a better path?" You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and halftruths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

          The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue...

          This was published in the "Christian Century" on June 12 1963. It was a response to an open letter from 8 White Alabama Clergymen named "A Call For Unity" This letter argued that the fight for civil rights would be better left to the courts rather than taking to the streets, and that Blacks should just be patient.

          MLK's "Letter From A Birmingham Jail" critiques mainstream religion for its satisfaction with the status quo and explains the purpose of direct action.

          by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 02:44:12 PM PDT

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          • Yes, but... (0 / 0)

            Sure, "negotiation" isn't the point here. Of course we're not going to be able to negotiate with the U.S. military to not recruit in Berkeley or any other town.

            The point is to choose the most effective means of persuading 1) potential military recruits that they don't want to join the military and 2) the general public to pressure their elected officials to end the war (or vote them out and replace them with officials who will end the war) There are two audiences - the group whose behavior you are trying to change, and the general public, whose support you need.

            I think part of the reason MLK's tactics were so effective was that the American public could see a group of people who wanted equal rights so badly they were putting their bodies and lives on the line and marching together. It tapped into the David vs. Goliath story on some level, and the general public started to get the point.

            Another example I can think of is the mothers of the desaparecidos in Argentina. They danced publicly and silently with photos of their missing loved ones. Again, the world saw this and got the point.

            There's no imagery in Code Pink's protests so far that has that power. Unfortunately, they come across as adversaries, as opposed to advocates.

            This isn't the 1960s, and mass protests are not materializing. There's got to be another way to win hearts and minds. And something is happening - the majority of the country wants the war to end. They need to know what the next step is -- not just see tactics that they can't relate to.

            by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:11:16 PM PDT

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            • you don't think those who wanted to preserve (0 / 0)

              segregation viewed him as an adversary? Most americans still don't know who code pink is. Mass protest haven't materialized yet. It doesnt' mean they won't.  There is no law that says they can't.

              Reducing military recruitment is the next step and they can't know about it unless code pink and those of us who agree with them continue plugin away and pissing the right people off.

              Mainstream politics hasn't thus far worked.  Pelosi and Reid are disappointments.  Reducing military recruitment will force their hand.

              If you find another way, tell us, in meantime, stop the handwringing over those of us willing to do something tangible.  I am sick of people who complain about doers like code pink, while the sit around banging on keyboards.

              by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:27:29 PM PDT

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              • banging on keyboards (0 / 0)

                Feel free to stop replying to me then.

                I have made some concrete suggestions in this thread:

                1. street actions that are more emotionally powerful and less adversarial, and I've given you examples.
                1. Passing out educational flyers in front of recruitment offices (not just in Berkeley)
                1. Trying to go speak to at-risk kids at schools where they might be more vulnerable to recruiter messages.

                If you don't think those suggestions will work, feel free to explain why, but don't just dismiss them as "handwringing."

                I would appreciate it if you'd provide some evidence that Code Pink is actually changing anybody's minds or persuading anybody outside of the Bay Area of their point of view. The fact that you haven't speaks volumes.

                by kathoakland on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:43:21 PM PDT

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                • code pink does things. (0 / 0)

                  You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.  MLK was inflammatory.

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                  by Dameocrat on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 03:51:13 PM PDT

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              • "pissing the right people off" (0 / 0)

                Who are the right people?

                Bunch of dudes from Danville and Tracy in camouflage hats that like to punch skateboarders and get into shouting matches with Medea Benjamin?

                And what does that accomplish?

                by Amy on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:22:34 PM PDT

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                • war mongers (0 / 0)

                  I think most people can tell the difference between protesting recruitment and protesting the military.  I don't know why it is desirable to continue the Iraq war as a college opportunity.

                  There are some military that maybe offended but I suspect they are largely right wingers.  Veterens for Peace also supports counter-recruitment.

                  by Dameocrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:40:19 AM PDT

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      • I disagree (0 / 0)

        I am not inclined toward backlash against anti-war protesters, because I am  an anti-war protester. And Code Pink's tactics totally turn me off.

        I don't think they provoke debate at all, just create a spectacle of dogmatic opposites squaring off in a nasty, uncivil way. No winners, no converts.

        by Amy on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 09:01:04 PM PDT

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