Because Eli likes to sing and dance, I recently looked into introductory dance classes for her. As it turns out, there is a group ballet class for 2 to 3-year-olds, which I hope she will attend.
But as I have done with Ari, if she chooses not to participate, or clearly doesn’t like it, I will withdraw her immediately. While I want my children to be exposed to extracurricular activities — something I wish I had had as a kid, but we did not have the money — I also don’t want them to spend their free time doing something they hate. I am fine with letting her sing and dance in her room to her heart’s content.
You could say I was perturbed by this essay in Brain, Child magazine about a mom who, like me, is fine with paying for music lessons even if her children do not excel in it. The idea is to expose them to activities they may enjoy and value as adults — not necessarily to raise the next Mozart or Mikhail Baryshnikov. Yet, here is the response she received from at least one mother:
Recently, another mother asked me what my endgame was for Henry’s violin playing. That was the word she used—endgame. I was stymied. I babbled some nonsense about the value of learning an instrument, but it wasn’t until later that I really thought about it. It’s clear he’s not going to be a famous soloist—the old joke about practice and Carnegie Hall is inapplicable. I never thought of an endgame. I’ve heard that our local high school and middle schools have decent music programs, and I’m pretty sure he’d enjoy playing in an orchestra.
“But what if he gives it up after high school?“ the endgame mother asked me. “Wouldn’t that bother you? All that money for lessons down the drain? All those years?“
After high school? I can’t possibly think that far ahead. What about the now?
Exactly. I would hate to think parents view all the recitals and concerts they attended as a waste of time and money. Considering, the Mozarts of the world are not even a dime a dozen, that is a lot of disappointment. Jeez.
Are your small children enrolled in structured activities? What are they? How did you decide upon that activity?
Piffle
My kids are a bit young for organized activities (or I’m too disorganized to get them in). But I was exposed to several things as a child, one being piano lessons. I took them for about seven years, and hated most of it. However, my parents noticed that while I hated practicing, I liked sitting down and playing things I liked. Even when I quit lessons, I would often sit and play a song or two to relax.
I’m glad I took them, even if I play terribly now (if I ever do) and certainly did not make a career of music. I’m glad I know how to read music, and I think I learned a lot about the progress of learning. I fully intend someday to get a piano and perhaps takes lessons again. I don’t know if that will happen in time for the kids to learn (I started at age 7) but there’s plenty of other things for them.
I recently read “Siblings Without Rivalry” (probably recommended by someone here) and one item that stuck out to me was the idea that many parents think if one child is good at something, they shouldn’t have another child persue it, lest that child feel bad that s/he isn’t as accomplished as the sibling. That is a mistake, because maybe the kid just likes the activity. S/he may not care that s/he isn’t the best at it. I’m not a competitive person at all, and there are several things I enjoy doing that I’m not necessarily good at. I think it’s worse to quit something that you might enjoy because you can’t be the best than to quit because you tried it and just didn’t like it much.
Our piano experiences
sound identical!
I just wonder ….
… why music lessons are different from sports. If your son or daughter are in Little League or youth soccer, do others ask you if your money was wasted on it if the child doesn’t become a pro baseball or soccer player?
As the mother of a daughter who was in gymnastics when young, and sons who were in Little League and youth soccer, I can say it is weird to me, to separate them.
All the kids are adults now and guess what? Not one of them became Olympic gymnasts, or pro baseball or soccer players.
It’s for the fun of it, because they wanted to be involved, whatever.
As a child, I took piano lessons for 8 years, as well as played clarinet in the school band for 7 years. I haven’t touched a piano or clarinet in years. I took the lessons because I wanted to, and (it is said) some lessons/sports help you with certain types of coordination.
Oh good grief
Endgame? Endgame??? Good lord, isn’t there such a thing as hobbies anymore?
My kids are five and seven years old, and I doubt they qualify as “small children” anymore. We did zero “structured activities” until last summer, when they took a weekly gymnastics class in my hometown with their cousin. We did that because they wanted to, and they absolutely loved it. We’re doing soccer this year, and my oldest DD will be taking a Junior Master Gardener class this summer, while the youngest is enrolled in a week-long art class. Again, they’ve chosen what they’re interested in; I just gave them a few options.
Soccer league fees aren’t a down payment on a college scholarship, and music lessons for toddlers aren’t career training. They’re hobbies. Fun things to do, for crying out loud. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yeah, yeah, they learn teamwork, improve math skills, etc, etc, but all I really want out of “structured activities” is that my children find something they enjoy doing. It may become a lifelong passion, it may turn into a career, or they might move onto something else in a few years.
Live in the present, and let children enjoy pastimes for their own sakes. The future will take care of itself.
Irish Dance
We’ve been shelling out for lessons for 8 years already. Is Meg going to be the next Jean Butler? No way on this planet! She’s pretty good, but no where near that good. That became pretty obvious around age 10. She’s 12 (nearing 13, gasp) and we’re still shelling out. She enjoys it, and probably more importantly, she’s at an age where I believe she needs to be kept busy. I already see some of her peers getting involved in drugs, sex, and shoplifting. Irish dance has helped build grace and confidence in her, and keeping busy with organized activities has most likely kept her out of situations that could have gotten her into trouble.
I’m now on a mad scramble to find an appropriate camp for (at least) a week this summer. She’s already signed up for Nike volleyball (resident) camp at Oberlin College for a week, a week of volleyball (day) camp at a local high school, her volleyball club is offering 3 days of day camp, and there are 4 evenings of training camp for her club. Due to her age, she is too old for most day camps, and it doesn’t help that I’ve waited until the last minute.
ITA
There are things that our kids take away from activities that stay with them long after the lesson or activity is over. Just the fact that kids are exposed to things make them more well-rounded, IMO.
I also have the same issues you do with camps. At that time when kids most need something to do (early adolescence), there is no programming for them. Abby could go to day camp yet this summer but would be bored. She could be a junior counselor somewhere but is not quite ready for that. We’re cobbling together the best we can and are hoping for the best.
geez, I’d hate to be that mom’s kid
can you imagine if that kid doesn’t become the next Mozart or doesn’t win a sporting scholarship to college!?
Jess has been taking weekly swimming lessons since she was about 14 months old. I got her into them for two reasons – one, she loves being in the water and two, living in Australia, knowing how to be safe and confident in the water is really, really important! She actually is a good, strong swimmer and I’m delighted that she enjoys herself. If she decides to take it further, more power to her and I’m with her all the way. We also just added gymnastics lessons, which she also enjoys. Now she’s asking for singing lessons, which I think is cool, too. We’ll see how things go and if I can find a good school/program.
I’m with you
My Meg took swimming lessons from the time she was potty trained (that’s what our local rec center requires), and Sean will begin lessons as soon as he is potty trained.
Wait on the singing
Get her in good music and movement or something of that sort. Actual singing lessons are for much older kids. Most teachers don’t like to start teaching that until they are in their teens and their vocal cords are developed. Many child singers develop nodules or very unhealthy habits that require surgery. I only took on a young student once and it was to start her in healthy vocal habits but she was in third grade and it was with a mom who understood that I would keep her with age appropriate music and that we were establishing good habits not becoming the next child star.
thanks for the information!
I’ll definitely look for a music and movement class.
What the hell?
I haven’t played the violin in years, but I’m glad I know how, and much more glad that I can read music, and write it if I really, really, really apply myself. I haven’t played the bassoon since I left highschool because I can’t afford one. The same goes for my father, and he did get to play in Carnegie Hall a few times.
Also my brother hated his piano lessons after a certain point, and he’s a very good amatuer singer/guitar player/composer/musical theatre performer.
bad bad bad
how’s that for a judgey response? here’s what i did:
i think you expose kids and let them guide you. nothing wrong with having them try any of it. but in the end they must enjoy it. piano was the only thing i made some demands. i wouldn’t pay for lessons unless she practiced. i held to that and dd wanted to continue so she practiced and still does.
all I can say is
thank god my mom let me be in drill team. Where would I be today if I couldn’t march in formation and throw stuff in the air and catch it? My parents were so “big picture” and from here all I — and my co-workers, who see me march into work proudly each day — can say is, Thank You!!!
rotflmao
and don’t forget your ability to wear uniforms!
a bonnet!
I wore a freakin’ bonnet! And a frilly pinafore, and white cowboy boots. I was da bomb, y’all!
white cowboy boots…
fringed, I can only hope!?
yeah,
I kinda think they were.
I love that you “get” me.
I was a cheerleader
Let’s rumble!
It’s on, girlfriend!!
Drum major here
Band geek for most of high school then the drum major at the end. Attention! Forward, Harch!!!! Still works well at work.
And my outfit was way cool. Our theme for the year was The Who’s Tommy. Very psychedelic.
Flag corps, reprazent!!!!
LOL
Same here! I can spin a mean broomstick. :)
snort
OMG that was hilarious, mamacita!
but what *endgame* did your mother have in mind?
lol
Whatever happened to having well rounded kids
There’s no way that school can give my kids all they need, so we use activities to supplement that.
My kids need to use their bodies more than just in gym class, so we’ve rotated gymnastics and swim lessons for them. William plays baseball and Abby did cheerleading. We tend to do no more than 1-2 activities at a time, so that kinda means my kids need to dabble, not specialize. I’m fine with that.
Activities are where kids practice social skills. They also get to practice what it means to start something and see it through – that’s important and we don’t always realize it. Activities are the chance for kids to explore and figure out what excites them.
But of course, we know that. I agree – I’d hate to be that mother’s child. To her I would say – the endgame is to have a fully developed child who becomes a productive adult.
education
I would easily say that music was more important to my education than any classwork I can think of. Certainly way more important than my pitiful, pathetic science classes. There’s no way I’d have my PhD today without music in high school, and a reasonable likelihood I wouldn’t even have a high school diploma.
Organized activities
I say any kind of organized activity has benefits that can’t necessarily be measured by the concrete skills learned. Following directions, learning to play with others (in more than just a school setting), being disciplined enough to practice, etc., all come out of things like music or sports. On some level, it doesn’t matter what type of activity one exposes one’s child to–there are lifelong benefits.
I think it’s great to let them try several activities (for long enough that they get over any initial learning curve) to see if anything really sticks, aptitude-wise, but really, it’s less about the particular skills and more about the ephemerals. (Although there’s nothing wrong with being able to tap out a song on the piano at a party once in a while, or knowing enough softball to play on the office team.)
Having said that, I’m a bit more adamant about my son taking swimming lessons for long enough to be confident in the water–but that’s because I view it as a survival skill, not because I want him to become the next Michael Phelps.
Sniff sniff
Sadly, it seems we will be done with dance after the recital this June. DE just isn’t listening anymore. So we’re taking a break and I don’t expect to return. :(
forgot to say
when I was growing up, I did dance lessons. Ballet from when I was 5-13, then tap and jazz until I was 18. I even did dance competitions in my teenage years. I knew from a very early age that I had no interest in pursuing dance as a career, nor do/did I have any extraordinary abilities as a dancer. But I loved dance passionately and enjoyed every minute of all those lessons. I learned to appreciate music, learned the discipline of dance and the history and cultural influences of those styles. And, not for nothing, I have good posture. If my parents had imposed an endgame “whaddarewegonnagetouttathis” criterion on my lessons, there would have been no point in paying for the lessons. Fortunately, that was never the question.
Hmmm….
Growing up I did swimming lessons (with limited results), cello lessons & orchestra, summer camps, and later field hockey and cross country skiing. I wish I’d done soccer as a younger child since middle school sports were rather stressful.
I work for a children’s language center so my children take Spanish & Mandarin classes when we’re all reasonably healthy. My 4 year old is currently taking pony lessons and will be doing some soccer this spring. I’d like to get them all into swimming lessons but we haven’t thus far.
We sing a lot at home but haven’t talked about an instrument yet. I may follow their lead. Otoh, I know of a fantastic drummer who does lessons which would be fun…
Oh, and the kids’ preschool does guest folks — yoga, drumming, gardening, cooking — which is fantastic.
DS2 wants a drum set
He’s my musical one, and I’ve always expected to start him on some instrument around this age. But he is completely focused on a drum set. This is not a kid who has passing fancies; he generally knows his own mind and he wants a drum set. No. F**king. Way.
A different kind of drum?
This particular drummer does African drumming, steel drums & reggae. Much much much nicer imo…
Electronic drum sets…
If he’s a born drummer, you will not be able to stop him from banging and tapping on any available object, so you might as well get something that’s actually made for banging and tapping on.
if I had a malleable child
I would have had him in so many activities! I loved watching him do stuff, chatting with the other parents, seeing them all get brave or whatever, the shaky performances — the whole thing.
I especially wanted him to take diving lessons. (He’s got pretty form. If I do say so.) He had to take swimming lessons because we have a pool, and while he is safe, I’m not sure he could swim a pretty lap. He didn’t mind that because we did it with friends over several summers. He did gymnastics as a wee one but unfortunately they didn’t have a “fun” track for boys — it was team or nothing, and nothing was by far the saner choice for us. He took piano and liked it and then didn’t like it. He recently said I was a “bad parent” for not forcing him to continue. I thought it was good of me to refrain from pointing out that the last thing we forced him to do — soccer practice — led to him threatening to kill the team and the coach. So forcing him? So not my cuppa. Children train their parents, yes they do.
At the moment, he has been accepted to a summer intensive theatre program that he’s not sure he wants to attend. It’s residential, lasts a month, and is a lot of work. For some reason DH is like a dog with a bone about this program and has made it his life’s work to ensure that DS attends. It may have something to do with his mother dying this year, or the way the planets are aligned? I honestly can’t make real sense of it. I’d be just as happy if he got a job for the summer and learned the value of a dollar, young man — ooops, I guess DH is not the only one with “issues.”
honestly, endgame?
pish-posh. When I was a kid, I was a classic drifter – soccer 1 or 2 years, ballet 1 year, etc. Never got piano lessons, as we could not afford them and didn’t have a piano anyway. Took clarinet in school for 3 years, and while I was technically proficient (and often a first chair) I doubt that I “felt” the music. I gave it up in junior high.
In high school I picked up cross-country, and ended up running for 8 years – all of HS and college. I ran for a DIII team, so no scholarship money (but also no pressure to weigh even less and become anorexic!), but so much fun! With only a few exceptions, the people I still keep in touch with from college are pretty much my former teammates.
And church camp was key in my faith development, life development, friend development.
My kids are gonna do as much as I can convince them to do and provide them access to, all while still having lots of free and unstructured time to just noodle around (hahahahahahaha!!!!). The endgame is having fun, enjoying yourself, and learning cool stuff. Sheesh.
On the scholarship question…
Very few kids get them, and often those who do get so little that it doesn’t even begin to compare to the cost of all those teams and/or lessons. Almost nobody who’s not a Division I athlete in football or basketball gets a full ride.
My older son has been taking guitar for over two years and my endgame is to give him the ability to play on his own as a teenager or an adult, and to have a lifelong love of and understanding of music. In addition to the current enjoyment that is my long term hope.
music –> math!
I can’t believe no one has mentioned this yet! IIRC kids exposed to music (lessons/theory – learning to play an instrument) do better in math because the parts of the brain that understand scales, intervals, patterns etc. also understand mathematical concepts. Shoot, music theory is all mathematical concepts!!
I knew a guy who studied piano as a kid and grew up to learn electrical engineering. He said he could understand how the music worked because it was mathematical, but he couldn’t “feel” it as music.
The big thing in theory for barbershop singing these days is Pythagorean tuning – “P-theory.” I can’t explain it very well other than to say that some scale steps (3, 5, 6, 7) should be sung, not quite sharp but on the high side. Your voice can do it; an instrument probably can’t (you’d be re-tuning all the time).
That said, I wish I’d learned to play any kind of instrument as a kid. DH and I just started trying to teach ourselves guitar together. He played clarinet as a kid and took sax lessons at 30.
Wow
I understand the theory with Barbershop singing but I can’t imagine actually thinking about singing like that as I did it. That would be incredibly hard.
No kidding
“Think the Minuet in G!” (said in Robert Preston’s voice)
More air/lifting the palate helps. The trick is when everyone lifts the same tiny amount—magical! when we don’t–kinda weird!
Tee-ball
I forgot to mention, we signed DS1 up for summer tee-ball at the Y. (everyone gets to play and they don’t keep score.) DH, who moved around a lot as a child (thanks IBM) was always the small smart new kid, and he firmly believes that establishing good basic athletic skills will go a long way toward protecting our small-smart-weird boy from bullying. He also takes karate. He is 5.
Haven’t started the little dude (3 next month) in anything formal other than some baby music classes.
That was my mother
Always about the Endgame. Horribly disappointed if her “investment” didn’t equate trophies or goals. HATED that. And how awful is it that I look back on the thousands of dollars she spent on lessons and stuff with contempt? Not at all the “endgame” she was hoping for, I can imagine.
I signed lily up for a slew of classes this summer. She’s out of daycare, so 4 months of stuff to do costs less than a week of daycare. At daycare, she’s doing yoga and a little scientists class and she does a weekend soccer class with one of her little best friends. Today she starts karate, June it’s ballet, July swim and August t-ball (all these are through the park district). I’m certain there will be those (my loving sister in law included) who will undoubtedly think I’ve overscheduled my poor little 3 year old and that I’m helicoptering her or some such nonsense. One hour a week out of the house isn’t going to create stress for a little girl who has gym class and lessons every day at school throughout the year. Participating in stuff is fun and since I do not anticipate any sort of career from any of these activities (nor do I hope for one) I’m fairly certain she’ll only benefit from them. I think the bottom line is- know your kid. Mine’s outgoing and fits in easily in groups and likes to run around. If she were introverted, she and Daddy would be heading to different stuff this summer.
The debate on “forcing” kids …
Another debate/post perhaps… what if your kids say NO to everything, esp. as they get older? Do you FORCE them try soccer for ONE season, or guitar for six months? We wrestle with that all the time.
I’m counting more and more adults – both younger and older – who say they’re glad their parents “forced” them to play violin or do ballet, or whatever, as there is some upside to it (they secretly loved the experience, it took them to a new interest, it made them more aware of their body, etc etc).
Sometimes our kids shouldn’t win the argument. Right?
(Our own experience: we’ve settled on NO spring sports for our 12 yr old, who tried lacross and baseball and hated both. During this time we make sure he’s doing something else: chess club, or — this is new — drumming! Ack. He tried guitar, just didn’t get excited, but seems to love drums. We seem to have settled on a blend of ”insisting” and “convincing.”)